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Inside Ford's Money-Guzzling EV Crisis


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10 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

A properly designed EREV should not be an extension of ICE manufacturing process.

 

Fundamentally, 

  • EREV is EV with ICE added in
  • PHEV is ICE with battery added in

So EREV conceptually would not have most of the legacy ICE stuff like transmission but PHEV would.

 

Also, properly designed EREV would most certainly be software defined whereas PHEV probably need to rely on traditional ICE sub-systems for major functions. 

Software defined vehicles are already here as evidenced by Jim Farley admitting that a certain vehicle (F150) has 150 modules in it controlled by software from suppliers. Ford has to go to them and request the proposed changes….

Thats a scary thought and all so Ford could save $500/vehicle.

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14 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

That makes sense - I was referring more to the frame, etc.   They're not going to wildly recreate all of that just because it's an EREV - they're going to use it as a starting point and modify from there.

Look how long it took them to go to a boxed frame under the Super Duties, and even then, it’s only boxed under the nose/cab because so many upfitters build on those C-channel frames. If they wildly recreate the EREV truck, they’ll completely cut it off from that segment of the market, which Ford obviously sees as consequential. 

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A look into the future.

Diesels are already becoming a giant PITA with regards exhaust emissions and the maintenance  of emission equipment

would an even larger gasoline engine in place of the diesel be a preferable alternative especially coupled to battery electric?

 

What about a big ass V12 version of the Godzilla with say, 10 or 11 litres capacity to give 750-800 lb ft?

More stop-start friendly for hybrid / EREV use in a heavier Super Duty, plus big capacity avoids

early tip into rich fuel mixtures under heavier loads.

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8 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

What about a big ass V12 version of the Godzilla with say, 10 or 11 litres capacity to give 750-800 lb ft?

Aren’t V-12s normally 60-degree Vs? If so, it wouldn’t make sense to base it on a 90-degree V8; you’d want to build it off something that’s already 60-degrees, like the 35EB. 
 

Also, it seems to me that the big V8s are already pretty well stuffed into the engine compartments of the Super Duties, so adding four extra cylinders to the length might present fitment problems. 
 

‘Tis an interesting idea, though…

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17 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

A look into the future.

Diesels are already becoming a giant PITA with regards exhaust emissions and the maintenance  of emission equipment

would an even larger gasoline engine in place of the diesel be a preferable alternative especially coupled to battery electric?

 

What about a big ass V12 version of the Godzilla with say, 10 or 11 litres capacity to give 750-800 lb ft?

More stop-start friendly for hybrid / EREV use in a heavier Super Duty, plus big capacity avoids

early tip into rich fuel mixtures under heavier loads.


A V12 would be fun to see, but IMO with hybrid/EREV electrification handling peak loads (acceleration and grades), steady engine power capability in range of +/- 200 HP should be enough for vast majority of truck owners.  I think a stroked Godzilla based on taller block could easily exceed 8 liters, and provide plenty of power.  A quick estimate shows most trucks use less power than that on average.  In my opinion just need some “big ass” electric motors to occasionally make up the short-duration power and torque deficits.

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22 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

Aren’t V-12s normally 60-degree Vs? If so, it wouldn’t make sense to base it on a 90-degree V8; you’d want to build it off something that’s already 60-degrees, like the 35EB. 


Correct, though interesting it hasn’t stopped Ford or others from doing it in the past.  Ford made 60-degree V8 out of a V12, 90-degree V10 out of V8, and 90-degree V6 out of different V8.  Technically not great decisions but probably made sense to them at the time to save cost and or expedite schedule.

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1 hour ago, SoonerLS said:

Aren’t V-12s normally 60-degree Vs? If so, it wouldn’t make sense to base it on a 90-degree V8; you’d want to build it off something that’s already 60-degrees, like the 35EB. 
 

Also, it seems to me that the big V8s are already pretty well stuffed into the engine compartments of the Super Duties, so adding four extra cylinders to the length might present fitment problems. 
 

‘Tis an interesting idea, though…

A 90 degree V12 also balances out fine, it’s like two I-6s laid size by side.

Based on Godzilla also gives the iron block required for SD AND MD use.

 

Joining two 60 degree V6s does not give enough capacity and you’re stuck with an alloy block.

 

 

 


 

V12 LS from eight years ago…

Edited by jpd80
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19 hours ago, akirby said:

With 800 hp supercharged coyotes - why bother?

In a super duty of Medium Duty under load, large capacity aces forced induction for fuel efficiency under constant load. It’s the opposite of what Ford does to meet CAFE.

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30 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

In a super duty of Medium Duty under load, large capacity aces forced induction for fuel efficiency under constant load. It’s the opposite of what Ford does to meet CAFE.


But the 7.3 would work just as well under load and would get better mpg than a v12.

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