rc38 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I really think this next contract will bring system wide senority. No longer will flowback or people at closed plants have to wonder if there are spots at other plants. If you have the senority you will be able to bump someone out of another plant. With the Jan.23rd annoucement coming,i think this will almost be a given on the 2007 contract. Any thoughts? Also heard from someone that knows a worker at Chrysler that they already have this policy in place. Now, i'm not sure if this person is in a assembly or parts plant at Chrysler. You figure if this happens to us at Ford you will probably need at least 18 yrs(i'm guessing of course) to hold a job at Ford after all the cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrballsonya Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I really think this next contract will bring system wide senority. No longer will flowback or people at closed plants have to wonder if there are spots at other plants. If you have the senority you will be able to bump someone out of another plant. With the Jan.23rd annoucement coming,i think this will almost be a given on the 2007 contract. Any thoughts? Also heard from someone that knows a worker at Chrysler that they already have this policy in place. Now, i'm not sure if this person is in a assembly or parts plant at Chrysler. You figure if this happens to us at Ford you will probably need at least 18 yrs(i'm guessing of course) to hold a job at Ford after all the cuts. I guess I wouldn't be suprised, but it seems like it would be very disruptive (a lot of people at new plants that would have to be re-trained). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougemillwright Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I guess I wouldn't be suprised, but it seems like it would be very disruptive (a lot of people at new plants that would have to be re-trained). I don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendew_15 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 This would cause to much confliction and chaos within each plant that remains open.What if this does happen and you get say 30 people who roll 30 lower senority people out of there current plant,then 3 months down the road 15 higher senority get tired of GEN or it is discontinued and they are looking to go back to work then they push 15 of the newly transfered and settled people out of there new plant.There would be no way you could just go from say Michigan to Kentucky truck then get pushed out back to Michigan to the labor pool and wait to be placed to pushed out again when another layoff comes up somewhere else.Imagine the loss of production training these people on new jobs every couple of months and people moving to new plants and taking days off right away to go get all there shit or load there shit up to move away.See what I'm gettin at here? This is alot larger than just moving from Wixom to Flat rock for alot of people remember we all don't live in Michigan,this is much greater than that some people will be getting pushed out all over the country and having to relocate many times before people figure if they are going to retire or bump someone or take a move so on and so forth. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this does not make sense to me because of the pre mentioned reasons,if anyone has any good reasons this is a true possibility please take the time to answer this post.For god's sake I did and I hate typing long ass shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkkon Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I don't think that will happen either. You will have to much bumping going on, which will lead to alot of paper work and money for the company and individuals. Evenditually it would die down, until another plant closing. 30 yr vet bumps 20 yr vet 20 yr vet bumbs 16 yr vet 16 yr vet bumbs 10 yr vet 10 yr vet bumbs 5 yr vet 5 yr vet bumbs 1 yr vet. and one very upset labor relations person = priceless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maislebandit Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ford respects seniority. But not to the point that it disrupts operations, not to mention the $ it costs to relocate, retrain, etc. It sucks for a seniority employee at a facility that closes, but that is the way Ford will continue to deal with plant closings, especially if it is to be on a grand scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I really think this next contract will bring system wide senority. No longer will flowback or people at closed plants have to wonder if there are spots at other plants. If you have the senority you will be able to bump someone out of another plant. With the Jan.23rd annoucement coming,i think this will almost be a given on the 2007 contract. Any thoughts? Also heard from someone that knows a worker at Chrysler that they already have this policy in place. Now, i'm not sure if this person is in a assembly or parts plant at Chrysler. You figure if this happens to us at Ford you will probably need at least 18 yrs(i'm guessing of course) to hold a job at Ford after all the cuts. You basically have system wide seniority now, the only thing you can't do is bump someone out of a job in another plant. What you may see after the 23rd, large scale movement/placement of individuals in facilities, then ILO's of low seniority. Flowbacks/transfers are generally given their company seniority when they land at another facility, in the past, the company has utilized seniority leveling dates, don't know if there are provisions in the current contract for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayotte Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 You basically have system wide seniority now, the only thing you can't do is bump someone out of a job in another plant. What you may see after the 23rd, large scale movement/placement of individuals in facilities, then ILO's of low seniority. Flowbacks/transfers are generally given their company seniority when they land at another facility, in the past, the company has utilized seniority leveling dates, don't know if there are provisions in the current contract for this. If it would happen, I could see the possibility of keeping it narrowed down to say assy. plants, parts plants, etc. and kept regional to cut down on the costs of moving people about. This would still be a nightmare and I highly doubt it would happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 This as idiotic as the old "TOYOTA AND FORD MERGING" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 This as idiotic as the old "TOYOTA AND FORD MERGING" thread. Dunno. While you might not ever see "system wide seniority", wouldn't be real surprised if the company "stuffed" facilities with high seniority people, then ILO'ed folks with low seniority, perfectly legal under the current contract. Why pay folks vested in GIS when you can ILO folks that aren't? You could get the same result without ever having to change the language of the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Something is going to happen after it is all said and done. Do you think a 20 to 30 year person at a closed plant is going to sit by while a 5 to 10 year person is working? Am I the only person that sees a class action lawsuit coming? Hell, they placed a LOT of folks from AAI at our plant, Sheldon Rd., in the not too distant future we may see some of these folks keep their jobs while they lay off people that haven't worked anywhere but here. When they came here, there was a fair amount of resentment about having these folks come in with their seniority, can only imagine how it will be when the shit really hits the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamCaan Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hell, they placed a LOT of folks from AAI at our plant, Sheldon Rd., in the not too distant future we may see some of these folks keep their jobs while they lay off people that haven't worked anywhere but here. When they came here, there was a fair amount of resentment about having these folks come in with their seniority, can only imagine how it will be when the shit really hits the fan. The UAW is supposed to make seniority a priority and it is very likely that low seniority will lose there jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weneedchange Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hell, they placed a LOT of folks from AAI at our plant, Sheldon Rd., in the not too distant future we may see some of these folks keep their jobs while they lay off people that haven't worked anywhere but here. When they came here, there was a fair amount of resentment about having these folks come in with their seniority, can only imagine how it will be when the shit really hits the fan. It will never happen! There is no benefit to the company. They close plants for many reasons, one being low productivity, and or quality. Why move "bad" people into "good" plants? Nothing personal ment towards anyone, I'm just trying to think like managment. The cost would be high, with no payback. And we dont have a union that is going to push for anything the company does'nt want. The company perfers younger workers anyway, they are more receptive to change, and generally in better health. Again, no disrespect ment towards anyone. On a different subject, Lets support the Delphi workers as they picket at the auto show. They are getting screwed, and we're next. Learn about it at www.futureoftheunion.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imawhosure Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I have been thinking they would do this since all of this crap started happening. It won't cost much, as GEN is going bye, bye, along with most transfer money etc. You want to continue on with Ford to complete your retirement, it will mostly be on your nickel. You only think it would be confusing for a long time, because you are going under todays rules, lol. As far is it won't save the company money; in the long run it probably will. If you remove the youngsters totally, they do not have to be called back when their layoff time exceeds their seniority, which no doubt will happen. That means if ever they hire again, it will be under the new deal, lolol. And I hate to tell ya, that deal is going to pay so low, an ant will have to lift its legs to pee on it!!!!! Anyway, we will just take a number of 100 layed off who have to bump back into the system. 50 have enough seniority, 50 do not. So then, the 50 bump the LOWEST seniority people in the system, and none of them have less time than the 50 they bumped. Then it goes by seniority, the ones with the most time get to choose their facility first, and on down the line. Seems easy to me, especially when all this stuff will no doubt happen at one time, or close enough for them to balance the system........that is, if they do it! Someone suggested 18yrs. I doubt it seriously. Almost everyone with 30yrs will retire instead of move if their facility closes. I am sure they will not go into another facility in their own job, and will have to get it back through bids. It is just a guess, but I would think it is closer to 10years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DingerGreenbelt/Leader@MTP Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I really think this next contract will bring system wide senority. No longer will flowback or people at closed plants have to wonder if there are spots at other plants. If you have the senority you will be able to bump someone out of another plant. With the Jan.23rd annoucement coming,i think this will almost be a given on the 2007 contract. Any thoughts? I can only guess. If your location closes it's doors, some people may follow your product to its' new facility providing that facility would require more manpower [in order to meet customer demand] than it already has, and also has nobody in GEN or on layoff. Any moves would be seniority based. Here's a little silver lining on this dark cloud hanging over all of us in the auto-biz,,,,I have plenty of friends across the USA who claim that the economy is fairly good everywhere else but Michigan and especially in our sector. I don't know who will be hitt'n' the streets, but atleast there is a chance of finding something somewhere that may provide a living wage. Good night and Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 It will never happen! There is no benefit to the company. They close plants for many reasons, one being low productivity, and or quality. Why move "bad" people into "good" plants? Nothing personal ment towards anyone, I'm just trying to think like managment. The cost would be high, with no payback. And we dont have a union that is going to push for anything the company does'nt want. The company perfers younger workers anyway, they are more receptive to change, and generally in better health. Again, no disrespect ment towards anyone. On a different subject, Lets support the Delphi workers as they picket at the auto show. They are getting screwed, and we're next. Learn about it at www.futureoftheunion.com. If you're thinking like management, why would you pay someone with 20 years seniority GIS for the next 10 years when you could lay someone with that isn't vested in GIS and have limited exposure? What a fabulous business model! You believe in Santa? :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weneedchange Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 If you're thinking like management, why would you pay someone with 20 years seniority GIS for the next 10 years when you could lay someone with that isn't vested in GIS and have limited exposure? What a fabulous business model! You believe in Santa? :lol: :lol: :lol: GIS can disappear as fast as our next raise did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtpm Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 GIS can disappear as fast as our next raise did... You are so right about that. All of this crap about system wide bumps just is so stupid. How many of you tards have gone to say 4 different plants, do you even understand how it works? Yes there is people that are pissed at plants when employees walk in with seniority but that is language that had been placed in the contracts. I feel for the guys that got swapped around from sister/brother plants like sterling/van dyke all those years and when I was told what happened it was pretty messed up. Here is what went on.... Someone works at the one plant say for 10 years, low production follows, gets transfered to the sister plant, starts plant seniority over but keeps company, say 10 years later same thing happens and gets sent back to the brother plant, plant time starts over again, boomlate 90's roll around and employees from other locations are transfered to either plant under a contract with uaw and ford that allows them to retain the time they had when left other plant. Basically appears that they were hired in to the plant they transfered to.. Meanwhile the guy sent back and forth has around 28 years of company time but only 8 of the plant time. Now I can understand the elders being upset and rightfully so but in reality this is something worded in contract language so to the guy saying lawsuit(class-action) sorry bud that is not gonna fly. Leveling date is the same date they opened flatrock, I think that is around 1986 if I am not mistaken. Now to everyone thinking they are going to get to kick someone out of a plant just because you have time you need to think outside the box for a minute. Why do you think the flow back stopped? I think it may be something to do with umm lets say getting rid of that language that allows transfers to other locations. But in a situation where a plant closes and people are on layoff, as openings fly open, higher seniority has first dibs but if they pass on the offer they could forfit any chance to get placed. Final note then I am going to bed. Something that may solve this whole thing is 1: get rid of the slackers that like medical leaves. 2: Tell the guys that have over 30 to help the collective and leave so it opens spots up so people are not on the street. 3: Learn everything you can so if this happens, something is there to fall back on. Tech industry is hot right now and is gearing up for more so I am heading that way. I am a 3rd gen auto worker but it is obvious I cannot rely on who I work for to keep food in my kids mouths. I have to be more addaptive to reality as should everyone. Light me up now if you wish, I spoke my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGarabaldi Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I agree with what you are saying, but there are a few things to think about. As far as the slackers...get rid of them. As far as the old-timers, they won't leave because of this VEBA trust for their medical benefits that just got rammed down everybody's throat. THis VEBA trust has been tried 2 times before and it has gone bankrupt. Why should an older employee go ahead and retire to basically lose his/her benefits when they can hang around a while longer to keep the benefits of an active employee. I see a bunch of old-timers croaking on the line because they were afraid to retire and get the shaft the present retiree's are getting. I'm an 11 year man and that is what I see. :unsure: Y'all have a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Dunno. While you might not ever see "system wide seniority", wouldn't be real surprised if the company "stuffed" facilities with high seniority people, then ILO'ed folks with low seniority, perfectly legal under the current contract. Why pay folks vested in GIS when you can ILO folks that aren't? You could get the same result without ever having to change the language of the contract. LMAO.....where do you guys come up with this stupid shit? This as idiotic as the old "TOYOTA AND FORD MERGING" thread. I concure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Buck, Nice to see your still around...thought maybe you got voted out or something and lost interest in this useless banter. Anyways welcome back! longball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 LMAO.....where do you guys come up with this stupid shit?I concure :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: When calling someone stupid, helps if you can spell the words you type. Next time, try "concur". You're welcome. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon4pres Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 My plant is safe but for anyone that is on the chopping block I would have been in New Orleans yesterday! If you can swing a hammer you can make major money in the next 5-10 years! Read last week that Wendys is paying burger flippers 16.00 an hour. Grab your hammer and head south if your laid off! Just my opinion. Good luck to all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: When calling someone stupid, helps if you can spell the words you type. Next time, try "concur". You're welcome. :lol: You dolt! It was a typo! "E" is right next to "R". :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 You dolt! It was a typo! "E" is right next to "R". :lol: :lol: :lol: Your explanation would be plausible if the typo was in a sentence of more than two words. BTW, if you also believe that the company isn't perfectly capable of dumping on their low seniority employees with the tacit approval of the international, I've got a bridge you might be interested in. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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