Guest Sixcav Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I just finished reading the C&D review of the Edge in this months issue. They liked the way the Edge handles, said it feels solid. They liked the AdvanceTrac system and they liked the overall appearance of the body design. What they didn't like? Well their test vehicle got 15 mpg city. In an age when people are shying away from SUV's due to gas consumption, this is not a good around town number. Their test vehicle was AWD, equipped with the sunroof, navigation system, 18 inch wheels and six months of sirrus on the house. Price tag? $36,465, so like I said, the damn thing is overpriced and too expensive. I guarantee you the average price tag on the lot will be around 30 grand. But that's my gripe, no theirs. Getting back to them, they didn't like that there were no passenger-assist handles, no soft lining in the storage nooks and the one that really floored me, no manumatic transmission. A 36 grand SUV with no manumatic, that's just pitiful guys come on. Manumatic has been common place for nearly a decade now and the technology is nothing new, it's been around for a couple decades at least. But Ford is just now in the last couple of years getting around to putting it in their products and their new flagship Crossover doesn't have it? That's pretty weak. They didn't really get into the interior other than to mention they liked the leather seats and they liked how roomy it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 "A 36 grand SUV with no manumatic" SUV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 It's an SUV to me man. It has a station wagon body and ground clearance, hence SUV. I think the whole CUV thing is just way to market products without the negative stigma now attached to the acronym "SUV". At any rate, the lack of a manumatic is a noticeable short coming in this vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Of all things to bitch about, it's 'weak' that the Edge doesn't have a manumatic. I'd rather Ford not piss money away on something that a vast majority of people never use (or in some cases don't know how to use). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Of all things to bitch about, it's 'weak' that the Edge doesn't have a manumatic. I'd rather Ford not piss money away on something that a vast majority of people never use (or in some cases don't know how to use). Like say a Navigation system that is almost never used. Most people spend the majority of their time commuting to work and back, they don't need a nav system for that. Personally I like my manumatic and use it pretty regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 (edited) the lack of a manumatic is a noticeable short coming in this vehicle. Yeah. To people like you that don't want the vehicle anyway. People don't buy vehicles when they run out of excuses NOT to buy them. Sure Ford could blow some of their transmission budget on a neat system that has redline cutouts and which is tied into buttons on the steering wheel or even little paddles behind it, but in the end, how many extra Edges do you think such a system would sell? 500? 1000? OTOH, if that money spent programming the 'manumatic' controls is taken from the budgets for shift mapping and shift quality programming, and the Edge comes to market with neat paddle shifters and a transmission that goes 'ka-thunk' every time it shifts............... There is no such thing as an unlimited budget, and with limited funds, it's a question of priorities, and frankly, Ford needs to have decent transmissions before it goes around adding any gee-whiz doodads like the seldom used paddleshifters, or buttons on a steering wheel or whatever little bit of ersatz-Schumacher you want to cram into your daily commute (gee look at me, I'm picking my shift points on the On-Ramp! I'm making Record Time!!!!--might as well get a bumper sticker that says, "I'm not speeding, I'm qualifying" along with an unlicensed sticker of Calvin peeing on the Chevy logo). Ford had no decent modern FWD transmissions before this one, developed with GM. Anyone lamenting the absence of near-useless gadgetry on it is missing the point. Would you rather have the manumatic mode on a 4-speed transmission like the Sebring and Avenger? Edited November 8, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 (edited) Like say a Navigation system that is almost never used. Most people spend the majority of their time commuting to work and back, they don't need a nav system for that. Personally I like my manumatic and use it pretty regularly. Oh come on a navigation sytem adds a signifigant dollar amount to the bottom line of a vehicle, and isn't forced down consumers throats as standard equipement. Consumers buy navigation systems because they see it as a need, I couldn't imagine pissing that much money away on a navigation system and not using it on a consistent basis. Besides when you have a great auto tranny, what need do you really have for a manumatic feature at all? Edited November 8, 2006 by Michael Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bec5150 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I am confused. I stated that the Edge is overpriced. I was told that the target audience was the same as the Murano and it's class. Then Sixcav points out it has no manumatic and you all say that it doesn't need one. You see where I am going here, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc-o Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 "A 36 grand SUV with no manumatic" SUV? All "non-car" folk I talk to consider the Murano, CX-7, Forester, and yes, Edge, SUV's. They don't look like cars, they're taller than cars, they're AWD, and you sit high. Anyone can argue about the semantics of these not adhering to the definition of an SUV, I have no doubt the general perception is that these vehicles may be "light" SUV's, but they're still SUV's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I am confused. I stated that the Edge is overpriced. I was told that the target audience was the same as the Murano and it's class. Then Sixcav points out it has no manumatic and you all say that it doesn't need one. You see where I am going here, right? Murano's got a CVT, and it's not even a "stepped" CVT with different presets to mimic gears. It doesn't have a manumatic either. Assuming that's where you were going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bec5150 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 (edited) Umm..yes, it's a 6 speed manual mode cvt according to the web site. http://www.nissanusa.com/murano/specifications.html Thought I was right on that one. Gotta get the top of the line, but it is available. Edited November 8, 2006 by bec5150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 "A 36 grand SUV with no manumatic" SUV? The Honda Pilot is an SUV to most people, despite its car underpinnings. The comparison is valid. Of all things to bitch about, it's 'weak' that the Edge doesn't have a manumatic. I'd rather Ford not piss money away on something that a vast majority of people never use (or in some cases don't know how to use). WTF? 36K and you're still using the same excuses for an economy car? And figures Richard is spinning things again. Hooray for mediocrity. Worked wonders for the Freestyle, Fusion, and the 500, right Richie? "Who cares? Bububu good enough" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 (edited) And figures Richard is spinning things again. Hooray for mediocrity. No manumatic in the Subaru B-9. Manumatics for days in the 4-speed "ultraglide" Dodge Stratus, Chrysler Sebring, and Dodge Avenger. And manumatic fans have yet to fashion even a raw figure for the number of sales that this will cost Ford. And the manumatic in the Murano? Nothing like being able to hit a button and dial in a fixed ratio, to completely defeat the purpose of having a CVT in the first place---a fixed ratio that is held until just before redline just like what would happen if you kept your foot on the gas in an automatic transmission. Edited November 8, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 (edited) Amen pcsario! Look Richie, it isn't just me, Car and Driver were disappointed the thing doesn't offer a manumatic as well. OTOH, if that money spent programming the 'manumatic' controls is taken from the budgets for shift mapping and shift quality programming, and the Edge comes to market with neat paddle shifters and a transmission that goes 'ka-thunk' every time it shifts :blah: :blah: :blah: man. I got a manumatic in a damn 19K Mazda, and it works flawlessly. How many years is Ford going to dick around and not put one in their offerings? Again, this technology is nothing new. VW was using it back in the 70's. Now I understand that from a performance enhancement point of view it doesn't do anything. It's just a gadget. Just a "nice to have" sort of thing. But then again the same can be said for power windows and locks, keyless remote, and cruise control you know. It should be there. This is the vehicle that Ford is banking will bail them out of the doldrums and they came to the table unprepared for the modern realities of the market place. Given the price range, the options and what not, I see no reason not to buy the CX7 if I was in the market for a "crossover" SUV. Once again Ford cut corners to offer the least vehicle for the most price and now excuse boxes like you will tell the rest of us we are wrong for pointing out the obviousness of that. PS, I notice that we got off on this manumatic issue and are conveniently overlooking the fact that the thing gets crappy mileage, and that is a real killer for sales. Edited November 8, 2006 by Sixcav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 (edited) The new Altima has a manumatic transmission RJ. Seeing as how the Murano is about to be replaced as well, and the fact Nissan wants to share as much components as possible, it's reasonable to think the new one will have one too. What would be the next excuse if that happens? We're back to the "bububu good enough" mindset for the next six years where the Edge is constantly beaten by the soon-to-be-released newcomers, who didn't look at the past, but rather the future when designing their vehicles. Hell, what would happen if the next Murano had a three row option, a manumatic mode --just like the new Altima-- and STILL offered better fuel economy? The scary thing is, it's actually a highly likely scenario. Edited November 8, 2006 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Amen pcsario! Look Richie, it isn't just me, Car and Driver were disappointed the thing doesn't offer a manumatic as well. :blah: :blah: :blah: man. I got a manumatic in a damn 19K Mazda, and it works flawlessly. How many years is Ford going to dick around and not put one in their offerings? Again, this technology is nothing new. VW was using it back in the 70's. Now I understand that from a performance enhancement point of view it doesn't do anything. It's just a gadget. Just a "nice to have" sort of thing. But then again the same can be said for power windows and locks, keyless remote, and cruise control you know. It should be there. This is the vehicle that Ford is banking will bail them out of the doldrums and they came to the table unprepared for the modern realities of the market place. Given the price range, the options and what not, I see no reason not to buy the CX7 if I was in the market for a "crossover" SUV. Once again Ford cut corners to offer the least vehicle for the most price and now excuse boxes like you will tell the rest of us we are wrong for pointing out the obviousness of that. PS, I notice that we got off on this manumatic issue and are conveniently overlooking the fact that the thing gets crappy mileage, and that is a real killer for sales. Yeah. The writers of C&D, all what, 10 of them? You think those guys have tastes representative of the target customer for the Edge? It's a big big country, and there are 300,000,000 people in it, give or take. Odds are the Ford will easily sell 100-130k of these to people that just don't care about playing boy-racer on an on-ramp on the way to work. And this is not 'the vehicle that Ford is banking on to bail them out of the doldrums'. This is a vehicle that is designed to meet or exceed the expectations of 100-130k paying customers. It's not about what this vehicle means to FORD, it's about what this vehicle means to its OWNERS. If 115k (split the difference) people don't CARE that it doesn't have a manumatic, and buy it anyway, what difference does it make? You want the manumatic and all that sporty stuff? Keep buying Mazdas, and don't cry to the rest of us about how you 'have to' because mean old Ford won't make cars that you want. Turns out Ford DOES make the cars you want. They just don't have a BLUE OVAL on the sheetmetal. Lastly, C&D's reported fuel mileage is meaningless. You want to compare mileage, use the EPA numbers. Those are the only numbers publicly available that CAN be compared because they are obtained by scientific testing. F'r cryin' out loud, you have no idea what they did to get those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldracer Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 15 mpg city? 36.5K? Hmmm isn''t that the same #'s for an Explorer V8? I know that is what my 2007 Sport Trac V8 says on the sticker and that is what we are getting, actually we are getting nearer to 17 city..... I like the looks of the Edge, have seen 1 at the dealers as a preview...... As for Rose colored glasses for Ford products.....so what everybody sees stuff differently... My opinion is that my new 2007 Suburban LTZ is amazing is just that, my opinion, I voted for a big tow vehicle with my wallet...GM won that round with the advantage of having my cousin as a dealership owner.... I have never liked the Expy's much, and see no reason to change that opinion at this point, simply it is unappealling to me. That doesn't mean they are "bad" or anything, I simply don't want one... I think 36.5K is a lot of $$ when you are fighting an uphill perception battle with consumers...take a page from the Koreans, and sell cheaper and put a meaningful bumper to bumper 100,000 mile warranty on it....in other words put your $$ where your mouth is....and I think they could do it successfully over 3-5 years. Watch them spend $$ on quality of the highest level....quickly! The alternative is to whine and do nothing special and lose your financial ass and all those US union jobs when nobody wants to buy your stuff anymore, between the dealer bullshit and the quality perception, (however wrong it really is, and it is wrong), this is no time to be safe and timid....hasn't worked lately.... If I was Emperor shit would get done or actual heads would roll!! :hyper: :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 15 mpg city? That's not the EPA number. That's the C&D "who knows?" number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 (edited) That's not the EPA number. That's the C&D "who knows?" number. According the article Richie, 16 and 24, C&D got 15. So pretty close. Hey if they count on selling 130 units and they sell 130 units, that's great. Personally I don't think it's a good purchase. It's 1998 Toyota Tundra to me man. It's just another SUV, gets SUV like mileage, handles a little better but frankly you would think by now Ford would have realized SUV's are on the way out. So they made yet another one. Good thinking. It doesn't offer the refinement of some of its competitors and it's got a hell of a price tag. I'm not seeing the upside here for Ford. PS, Wait, a correction here, let me be absolutely clear because I don't want to misrepresent anything (Like Richie). Car and Driver predicted EPA numbers of 16 and 24. Given that they've been in the business for many a long year now I wouldn't have any reason to doubt that. Edited November 8, 2006 by Sixcav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 15 mpg city?36.5K? Hmmm isn''t that the same #'s for an Explorer V8? I think 36.5K is a lot of $$ when you are fighting an uphill perception battle with consumers. put your $$ where your mouth is. this is no time to be safe and timid....hasn't worked lately. Absolutely. What is really shocking is seeing people who think these reviewers are actually being "unfair" with Ford. Same fuel economy as a three row SUV with a V8, 36K, a bad interior, etc. and yet they expected C&D to call the Edge the best crossover ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Personally I don't think it's a good purchase. I'd rather have a $21.5k Milan with the suede seats, 4-cylinder, and automatic transmission. But I can understand the appeal of the Edge. It's for conspicuous consumers. They still exist, y'know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I'd rather have a $21.5k Milan with the suede seats, 4-cylinder, and automatic transmission. But I can understand the appeal of the Edge. It's for conspicuous consumers. They still exist, y'know. Ok, I gotcha man. Now, would that be a Milan with the manumatic? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Ok, I gotcha man. Now, would that be a Milan with the manumatic? lol Man, if I wanted to deal with that hassle, I'd get a manual AND the better gas mileage AND the cheaper maintenance that goes with it (and save myself about $1500 off the purchase to boot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Man, if I wanted to deal with that hassle, I'd get a manual AND the better gas mileage AND the cheaper maintenance that goes with it (and save myself about $1500 off the purchase to boot). Sorry, no manual transmission available in the Milan. You get a "no go" at this station. Personally, I think a stick shift in a production car is all but obsolete. Like the nav system and the manumatic it's just there to play with. Back in the day when AT's were valve body operated I could see the advantage of the stick. But now, in the era of ECM's you would have to be a professional race car driver to out drive that ECM. So a stick has just become mostly obsolete. You match up two cars of the same kind, the Mustang for instance. The car mags claim the stick shift stang is 1/2 a second quicker 0 to 60. But that's given professional drivers at ideal conditions. Now, if it's two Joe Blow's sitting at the light and one is driving Mustang GT stick and the other is Mustang GT auto, that guy in the stick stands a good chance of losing because he'll be hard pressed to out drive that ECM. Heck they'd be using ECM's with auto's in Formula 1 racing except that the rules say the driver must change the gear himself. Even at that the readout tells him exactly when to shift. And I believe those are manumatics? Not sure on that though. Anyway, we are off topic, so lets switch back. They screwed up the Edge!!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Sorry, no manual transmission available in the Milan. Actually, the I-4 has a standard 5-speed http://autos.yahoo.com/mercury_milan_i4-sp...TlC2bD97UaISsgF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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