The Car and Driver review of the Edge

[Guest Sixcav]

Holy cow a stick shift in a Mercury sedan? I didn't think they would do that with the Milan.

[RichardJensen]

Holy cow a stick shift in a Mercury sedan? I didn't think they would do that with the Milan.

Know why it's got one?

 

Target customers wanted one.

[Guest Sixcav]

Know why it's got one?

 

Target customers wanted one.

 

Right, right, someone last week here said that Mercury is targeted at women, minorities, gays & lesbians.

They aren't selling worth a damn so I think Mercury needs to re-examine it's target customers. lol

[RichardJensen]

Right, right, someone last week here said that Mercury is targeted at women, minorities, gays & lesbians.

They aren't selling worth a damn so I think Mercury needs to re-examine it's target customers. lol

Actually, it's more like a substantial portion of Milan buyers are entry level customers on a tighter budget, and they're willing to deal with the hassles of a manual to get more car for less money.

[Guest Sixcav]

And this is not 'the vehicle that Ford is banking on to bail them out of the doldrums'. This is a vehicle that is designed to meet or exceed the expectations of 100-130k paying customers.

I meant to comment on this earlier Richie but forgot. I'm not so sure about this statement given the following from Bill Ford about the Edge. He said

 

Hi, folks, sure hope you like our new crossover. We have high hopes for this one.

 

Sounds to me like Ford has a lot riding on this Edge. I know I've read in several articles about the Edge that say that very thing. That Ford is counting on it to be a big hit and help turn things around for them.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Sixcav

[RichardJensen]

Sounds to me like Ford has a lot riding on this Edge. I know I've read in several articles about the Edge that say that very thing. That Ford is counting on it to be a big hit and help turn things around for them.

Ford will sell about 175,000 Tauruses this year. They hope to sell between 100,000 and 130,000 Edges next year.

 

It is rather difficult to extract, from those sales expectations, the idea that this vehicle is going to 'bring Ford out of the doldrums'. Likely it will not even stop them from losing overall market share next year.

 

It is a vehicle that is targeted toward a certain group of people for whom the presence (or absence) of a manumatic is not a deal breaker. Would some Edge buyers prefer a manumatic option? Undoubtedly. But the number of sales the Edge will lose due to the absence of this feature, IMO, will not even exceed 1000. The presence of certain other decided advantages ($2k cheaper than manumatic equipped Murano, vista roof, arguably better styling) will outweigh the absence of this feature.

Edited November 8, 2006 by RichardJensen

[Guest Sixcav]

It is a vehicle that is targeted toward a certain group of people for whom the presence (or absence) of a manumatic is not a deal breaker. Would some Edge buyers prefer a manumatic option? Undoubtedly. But the number of sales the Edge will lose due to the absence of this feature, IMO, will not even exceed 1000. The presence of certain other decided advantages ($2k cheaper than manumatic equipped Murano, vista roof, arguably better styling) will outweigh the absence of this feature.

 

Maybe, personally I think the crappy gas mileage will drive off more potential buyers than anything else.

[bec5150]

I want the edge to succeed, but I just don't think it's gonna.

 

Want economy? The Edge cost too much, guzzles gas, and is only five passenger. If five passenger is fine, get an Escape. Want seven passenger AND better MPG? Get a 500 wago....I mean a Freestyle.

 

Want sporty? The Edge doesn't have a manumatic, has a nice UNSPORTY interior, and doesn't look nearly as sporty as the competitors like the Murano, BMW X3, etc.

 

Want utility? While the Edge will tow 3500Lbs, it's still car based, so all of the remarks about the Ridgeline apply. Buy an Explorer, get a third row and the same economy AND rugged proven BOF construction.

 

I said it before...there are better SUV choices, much better, and you don't even have t leave the Ford lot. Seems to me that everyone with an SUV like this has added the third row seat.

 

The Pilot was named in this as being a competitor. I don't think so. IT has a third row seat and is much bigger.

Edited November 8, 2006 by bec5150

[RichardJensen]

There are no EPA mileage estimates for the Edge yet.

[fllcobra]

15 mpg city?

36.5K?

 

Hmmm isn''t that the same #'s for an Explorer V8?

 

I know that is what my 2007 Sport Trac V8 says on the sticker and that is what we are getting, actually we are getting nearer to 17 city.....

 

Damn, my 2006 V8 Mountaineer was $33K w/Navigation, power retracting running boards, quad-seating, power folding rear seats, a moonroof and the side canopy airbag system. The MSPR on my SUV was $38K. I feel a whole lot better about my purchase and glad I did not wait for the Edge.

[Guest Sixcav]

You know the funny thing, next year Motortrend will name the Edge crossover of the year because it meets the criteria of new design and I don't think there's another new one out this year. Many here will then conveniently forget this --

 

Savaged by Motor Trend -

and they will all say what an honorable and trustworthy publication Motortrend is. lol

 

 

 

There are no EPA mileage estimates for the Edge yet.

 

Oh face it Richie, the damn thing is heavy and it gets crappy mileage. Case closed.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Sixcav

[RichardJensen]

You know the funny thing, next year Motortrend will name the Edge crossover of the year because it meets the criteria of new design and I don't think there's another new one out this year. Many here will then conveniently forget this --

and they will all say what an honorable and trustworthy publication Motortrend is. lol

Oh face it Richie, the damn thing is heavy and it gets crappy mileage. Case closed.

Uh. Did you not see the topic about how MT didn't award the Edge SUV of the year? Besides, no one thinks MT is honorable or trustworthy.

 

Second, the Edge is about 200lbs heavier than the Murano. Will that impact EPA figures? Sure, in the city. It weighs 5% more than the Murano, therefore....... worse gas mileage. But 'crappy'????? Not sure quite how we get from 'worse' to 'crappy'.

[Jazzhead]

Hey who said this piece is supposed to be an economy wagon? It's got a 260 hp engine, AWD, and every airbag imaginable. It's a sport utility vehicle, after all.

 

Is it tuned to run on regular gas? I think that's a prime consideration of buyers these days, and if so I can live with the MPG given what the Edge provides.

[bec5150]

Uh. Did you not see the topic about how MT didn't award the Edge SUV of the year? Besides, no one thinks MT is honorable or trustworthy.

 

Second, the Edge is about 200lbs heavier than the Murano. Will that impact EPA figures? Sure, in the city. It weighs 5% more than the Murano, therefore....... worse gas mileage. But 'crappy'????? Not sure quite how we get from 'worse' to 'crappy'.

The only way it's not "crappy" is if we are to assume that C&D lied about the 15MPG. What did Motor Trend get for MPG?

[swenson88]

The only way it's not "crappy" is if we are to assume that C&D lied about the 15MPG. What did Motor Trend get for MPG?

 

You also have to realize people buy vehicles based on the MPG listed on the sticker, not actual mileage. I bet the EPA mpg will be similar to every competitor. I also bet you could get 15mpg from any CUV if driven hard enough. I'm not apologizing, but the fact is too many people think buying a CUV over a BOF SUV is somehow saving the planet and loads of gas and they simply don't, especially as they get bigger and heavier. You want to save gas you need to buy a smallish car, not any SUV-style vehicle, pure and simple. A Pilot doesn't get good mileage, nor does a Highlander, nor does any midsize and up CUV/SUV.

[NickF1011]

Personally, I think a stick shift in a production car is all but obsolete. Like the nav system and the manumatic it's just there to play with.

 

Some of us like to play I guess. I doubt I would have bought either of my cars if they had automatics...or manumatics even.

[silvrsvt]

I don't get all this bitching about the City MPG rating for the Edge. According to Ford, you should get 24 MPG on the HIGHWAY, which is just about impossible for any BOF SUV to get (real world V6 02 EB Explorer, best MPG is 21 on a 6 hr highway ride) . People have a really myopic view of Ford and just attack them for just the littlest thing.

[RichardJensen]

The only way it's not "crappy" is if we are to assume that C&D lied about the 15MPG. What did Motor Trend get for MPG?

ONLY WAY?

 

Beg pardon.

 

C&D could've also floored it every chance they got, and done a test cycle with primarily, if not exclusively, city driving. Unlike the EPA, which uses the same test regimen on EVERY vehicle, the C&D reported mileage is one based entirely on whimsy, and what the drivers felt like doing that particular day. It is NOT comparable to the reported mileage for any other vehicle.

[Michael Reynolds]

WTF? 36K and you're still using the same excuses for an economy car?

 

And figures Richard is spinning things again. Hooray for mediocrity.

 

Worked wonders for the Freestyle, Fusion, and the 500, right Richie?

 

"Who cares? Bububu good enough"

 

Yeah and a manumatic = mediocrity. Please.

 

If we are going to go on that assumption then the last gen Intrepid should have scored endless sales, as it was one of the few offerings at the time to have a manumatic.

 

Instead of bitching about what the Edge doesn't have, try driving the damn thing first. I'm not a big fan of autos, but a good unit that responds to input as it should is more than enough for the vast majority of consumers out there.

 

I also fail to see how a manumatic has to do with any of the above listed vehicles, especially the Fusion which still enjoys a generous amount of sales.

[White99GT]

Rags like M/T and C&D always get some of the lowest gas mileage figures you will ever see. Owners will see much better than 15 mpg in the city, no doubt about it.

 

The magazine guys run their test cars hard, not exactly the manner in which the typical owner will drive their vehicle. I think most mags, even CR, were only getting 17-18 mpg out of the Freestyle, owners usually see a 21-23 mpg combined average and the mileage creeps up to 25-27 mpg on the interstate.

[pcsario]

bububu good enough!!

In this industry, you're never going to get out of a shithole with that mentality.

 

If you want Ford competing against Kya and Hyundai, instead of the Japanese, that's ok.

 

While Ford was losing BILLIONS of dollars this quarter, Toyota was MAKING them.

 

That won't change if you continue giving Ford a free pass with everything they do --as is-- every single time.

 

The new Altima has a manumatic trannie, it's highly likely the next Murano, out in the near future, will also have that, plus more.

 

As much as I hate Nissan, what Ford is doing is no different from the mentality Nissan had before Ghosn, with the Fusion being the old-old Altima, the Focus being another '00 Sentra and so on. (Sorry, I don't care that the C170 platform is better than the new Civic blah blah blah). Hell, judging from your post, they were products that met your standards. They worked, were cheap, "sticked to basics", etc.

 

Look at where the "bububu good enough" mentality got them too in the first place.

 

36K, no third row, and the fuel economy of a V8 Explorer.

 

But yeah lets ignore all complaints and put our pink glasses on, because everything Ford does is wonderful.

Edited November 8, 2006 by pcsario

[630land]

Ask SUV buyers and well over 95% will say

 

"manu what? I'll never use it. I dont even want to touch it"

[retro-man]

I'm tired of Detroit deciding for me what I'll never use. That's another pattern of thought that has gotten them into the shitter. Does the company have one? Offer it as an option. Period.

 

Ford decided I didn't want a manual for my T-Bird (you know, a 6-speed stick like J Mays and Jac Nasser had fitted to their own T-Birds). Well, guess what? I would love to have had a stick, but noooooo. They decided I didn't want a supercharged 390hp motor (you know, like J Mays and Jac Nasser had fitted to their own T-Birds). Well, guess what? I would love to have had 390 supercharged hp. And, even if I couldn't have afforded the option, at least there would have been some out there on the road adding to the car's image (you know, instead of letting it assume its reputation as a half-assed effort). But noooo.

 

I'm a big defender of Japan, but even I'll admit that their cars - for the most part - lack passion. So the fact that I could get a V6 Accord coupe, or Mazda 6, or Altima, that would have a stickshift, more horsepower than my T-Bird, let alone most of Detroits offerings - the fact that, in short, the unexciting Japanese offerings are more exciting than what Detroit is putting out - is just sad. We saw the thread on the MKS and the lack of a V8 option. So sad. The Detroit mentality seems to sort us into two categories: vanilla golf-carts and Corvettes. It is obvious from Detroit's performance that that's not covering the bases. (Of course, the 800 lb. gorilla in the closet here is that maybe Detroit simply can no longer afford to cover the bases. That's deeper doodoo.) But if they can afford it, they better start giving us something to get us excited. More options, less excuses. If that's a manumatic in an SUV, then so be it.

[pcsario]

Ask SUV buyers and well over 95% will say

"manu what? I'll never use it. I dont even want to touch it"

 

It was part of the discussion, not the heart of it. You only need one of the big guys to have something you don't to make your product be perceived as inferior. Just imagine the Fusion competing with the Accord and Camry if it had hard plastics. Just like manumatics, they aren't essential either.

 

People notice those kind of cost cutting meassures. If the next Murano has a manumatic, then people will wonder why the Edge doesn't and so on. Add to that the inferior FE and you can see where things would go in the short to mid term. It's like the Fusion, it will be quickly and easily surpassed (by a friggin MALIBU no less) and we're stuck with a mediocre vehicle in comparisons for the next 4-6 years, losing against the competition (OLD competitors), and making Ford look in the eyes of the average Joe "like they haven't learned anything, glad I went Toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc.".

Edited November 8, 2006 by pcsario

[Guest Sixcav]

Amen pcsario and amen retro-man. Both right on the money. It's obvious what happened here. Ford probably started out with a good idea and then they said "Ok, where can we cut corners to lower our cost while keeping the retail value of it just as high as everyone else." It shows up like a sore thumb. Ford is probably banking that the average customer is too uninformed to figure out they're getting ripped off or at the very least they aren't getting as much vehicle for their money as they would at a competitor. This, unfortunately, is all to common with Ford products in recent years. Sooner or later they have to realize the customers aren't as uninformed as they like to think. They research this stuff and gee maybe that's why Fords aren't selling.

 

The Detroit mentality seems to sort us into two categories: vanilla golf-carts and Corvettes.

 

Damn why didn't I think of that. That was a good one buddy.

 

You know what I'd like to see around here, especially from you Richie. Just exactly what periodicals do you guys suggest we should read to find one that gives what you think is a fair shake to Ford. Now personally I thought the Car and Driver review was completely fair. But all I ever hear from you guys around here is how Motortrend and C&D and R&T and all the rest are biased rags and you don't like them. So who's good out there?