Ford S-Max Voted 2007 Car of the Year

[RichardJensen]

Instead of addressing the various points above, let me state my opinion clearly and concisely:

 

No half measures. Design it HERE for sale HERE.

 

I don't think that's all over the map. I think that's pretty darn clear.

[waymondospiff]

Instead of addressing the various points above, let me state my opinion clearly and concisely:

 

No half measures. Design it HERE for sale HERE.

 

I don't think that's all over the map. I think that's pretty darn clear.

 

I definetely didn't mean to be a part of a pig-pile on top of you there, RJ (Is that the right term? Pig-pile? I talk sometimes English not good.) But my basic point is, if the microvans are The Next Big Thing, and FofE has a turn key vehicle, why redesign an entirely new vehicle in NA that will turn out exactly the same?

 

You've talked many times of integrating PD globally, which I wholly agree with, and in this case FofE, independently, has developed a fine product. Why should we insist on a US "tophat" when the EU version is perfectly fine? The shape isn't odd. The nose is kinda busy, but that's easy to change. The interior is (unusual for some European cars) quite roomy.

 

Plus, redesigning a NA-specific version would cost more money. Ford doesn't have money to be spending on (relative to the F-150, anyway) low volume products. So, despite this, because it was developed by FofE, FofNA shouldn't be allowed to make money on the product? That seems even *more* screwed up than the little fiefdoms of Ford that have sprung up all over the world.

 

I'm sticking to it, until I'm shown otherwise.

 

Scott

[retro-man]

Let me add my voice to RJ's dreaded chorus. I like it. Of course, we won't get it. (Of course, we don't get it.) So, some other maker will get that segment - I could see Toyota or Mazda doing well with equivalent offerings.

 

As for the Edge, it is blessed with a novel (CUV) shape. That should help it as long as the novelty factor plays. The styling applied to that shape is much like the Freestyle or the Five Hundred: the automotive equivalent of a good stringbean casserole with Campbell's Cream of Mushroom Soup, and crunchy canned onion rings baked on top. Tastes pretty good, won't offend anyone. But you wouldn't go out of your way to buy it either.

 

I like a lot of the foreign stuff. I also like strong-brew American (the '49 Concept that never was). It's the weak sauce that I have no use for.

Edited November 14, 2006 by retro-man

[RichardJensen]

Why should we insist on a US "tophat" when the EU version is perfectly fine?

I would argue otherwise (indeed, I HAVE argued otherwise). It would cost more to design a U.S. spec version, but that version, IMO, would sell sufficiently better to justify the added investment. After all, we are not talking peanuts when it comes to crash testing, engine bay remodeling, interior 'adjustment' and exterior reworking. Granted it's not as much as it would cost to do all new sheetmetal, but the difference (what with the CAD and all that) is not as great as you might first think. Another missing 'x' factor on this is that IIRC, it's not available with AWD.

[ZanatWork]

5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

 

And we have liftoff.

 

The official, "Why don't we have that here" chorus has started.

 

This product would not sell here. Not as a Ford. Probably not as an anything.

 

Ford needs to direct this level of attention to detail to products designed IN THE US for SALE IN THE US. They do not need to bring over strangely styled EU vehicles.

 

Meanwhile, Ford also needs to do better advertising in the EU. Pardon me, but if I'm an Italian, I don't particularly care to see "Your Life" at the top of an ad in Italian.

 

Maybe that's the reason why Ford's got all these award winning products in EU, but their market share is flat and their profits are almost non-existant.

 

Your countdown is pretty silly, as I've questioned our lack of this vehicle since the first pic I ever saw.

 

As for "would not sell", Richie, that styling argument is rendered apart by the success of a little ol' Toyota named the Prius. The S-Max is a step toward normalcy in comparison, yet still sharp enough to look cutting edge. This is the kind of "Bold Move" that could seperate Ford from the domestic Joneses.

 

The vehicle is extremely handsome, and would make any other existing "people mover" appear decades older in comparison...what's the problem?

 

 

Don't care how you slice it, that thing makes about as much sense, in current form, for Mercury, as a self-powered riding lawn mower.

 

Take EUCD, and put a body on it that's designed for the U.S., don't take the lazy way out and bring over EU spec cars.

 

It's a function of 'can't-do' sprit and Euro-envy that says a vehicle that was not designed for this market would sell better than a vehicle designed for this market.

 

More realisticly, Ford's product designed for this market may not sell all that well, but their products designed for somewhere else would sell even worse.

 

 

You kept going, so I'll join you.

 

Mercury is supposed to be for the young, fast-tracking, hip people that consider Ford too drab, right? The kind of people that buy Jettas, upper Hondas/lower Acuras, and maybe IS-series Lexii, correct?

 

This is a smart, usable vehicle with contemporary styling and appraent attention to detail that has made various imports so popular with the current crop of "hipsters". I'd also add that many of them are my friends, as I'm pretty much in that age group and am a rare domestophile in their ranks.

 

This vehilce freakin' EMBODIES the proposed Mercury message, including being a potentially great vehicle for women. It's sharp, it's now, it's wow, and I can't imagine how you're not seeing that....

 

Instead of addressing the various points above, let me state my opinion clearly and concisely:

 

No half measures. Design it HERE for sale HERE.

 

I don't think that's all over the map. I think that's pretty darn clear.

 

 

So blow off a good idea from another sector of the company because it initially began elsewhere?

 

R&D largely done? Teething problems already addressed? Sleek and handsome enough to be produced with no need for styling updates before 2010?

 

I'm no bean counter, but this looks like a potentially handsome hill o' beans.

[Edstock]

I would like to see them put Mercury grilles on a half-dozen, and show 'em on the show circuit to get feed-back from the US consumer. What's to be scared of? Ford's NA PD development has had problems, so it's not impossible that Ford EU just might have found a product that the traumatized NA gang have missed, in their desire to bring you Freestyle.

 

What the hell, it's a cheap entry for a 'concept car', and it would probably be just one more nice prototype that didn't get built. But, if people go crazy with deposits, Federalize the sumbitch, and get it over here.

 

Either you like the size, or you don't. As an up-scale vehicle for markets with urban congestion, it might do very well. Again, it would still be nice as a show car.

[Stray Kat]

OK, Bold Moves huh? Well this is the bold move I would'nt mind seeing. Ford drops NASCAR today,IMO it's a total waste of good and much needed money. Take that money and federalize the S-Max and Ford Transit. Give the S- Max to Mercury and the Transit to Ford dealers. Almost nothing to lose and everything to gain. Some people in this country are'nt happy unless everything they buy including their bottled water is imported (trust me I know this for a fact), so give them what they want. At least this is a Ford product and should be marketed in such a way that demonstrates Ford engineering can do small and efficient.

 

Dumping NASCAR is long overdue. What does Ford derive from it? NASCAR markets personalities NOT car manufacturers. They have unabashidly stated and then proved this over and over again. They do not want to move technologically speaking so dump `em. They do not needed Ford or any manufacturer for that matter. I think Ford would be better served by developing core parts need for use in other race series like sports cars, sprint cars, drag racing and short tracks. By core parts I mean blocks, heads, oiling and cooling and driveline stuff. There is low hanging fruit all over the place that is there for the picking. Ford has already proven they could do it in the USAR Hooters Pro Cup, ASA and Grand Am racing. No need to spend billions on Nascar for basically nothing.

 

Not trying to jump topic here I just want Ford to spend money wisely and get excellent product in the dealerships now!

Edited November 14, 2006 by Stray Kat

[Edstock]

"Dumping NASCAR is long overdue."

 

Works for me. Iron blocks, iron heads and push-rods and carburetors. 2006.

 

Following Mr. France's escapades, maybe they should start a DWICAR series — pour a half-bottle of Jack down each driver's gullet, and drop the green flag. Pit stops for Visine and Excedrin. Blowing chunks through the window webbing at 200mph. Spectacle. DWICAR!

[ZanatWork]

NASCAR has the biggest audience of any USA motorsports series...period. Open wheel racing is on life support, and sports car racing is a long way from getting prime network or even ESPN time anytime soon...the wondrous 80's IMSA/SCCA days are long over.

 

Think of how much advertising costs for, say, commercials during NFL games. Think of how visible the Ford logo is whenever Kenseth or any other Ford driver wins...it's advertising money, simple as that.

 

If Ford jumped out just as Toyota jumped in...that would be taken as a pretty pathetic surrender. That's sending the wrong statement.

[kyle]

Now here is what RJ want's from europe!!

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/14/german-...-mustang-wagon/

 

Me...I will take the s-max with it's red ip lighting any day!

[waymondospiff]

I would argue otherwise (indeed, I HAVE argued otherwise). It would cost more to design a U.S. spec version, but that version, IMO, would sell sufficiently better to justify the added investment. After all, we are not talking peanuts when it comes to crash testing, engine bay remodeling, interior 'adjustment' and exterior reworking. Granted it's not as much as it would cost to do all new sheetmetal, but the difference (what with the CAD and all that) is not as great as you might first think. Another missing 'x' factor on this is that IIRC, it's not available with AWD.

I don't see AWD as a roadblock. If it really is required, EUCD supports AWD, I don't know if the floor pan of the S-Max would need to be redesigned to accomodate it, however. Probably so.

 

Already has five stars (or whatever they use) EU NCAP. Crash testing a couple of S-Maxes isn't too pricey. Engine bay doesn't need to be remodeled - the EU model already has 2.0L MZR - the 2.3L/2.5L should be an easy fit. As far as bigger engines - well, the Volvo 5cyl fits. That means the new Volvo 3.2L I-6 would also fit. The old Mondeo was available with the 3.0L Duratec - I would guess the new EUCD would also be Duratec capable, but I don't know.

 

But this is what really took me back: "...all new sheetmetal, but the difference...is not as great as you might think." Umm...if all new sheetmetal was really that cheap why am I able to buy a brand new 2007 M/Y 1992 Grand Marquis? Or a brand new 2007 M/Y 1994 Ranger? If "tophats" were oh so cheap, Ford has even LESS of a reason to be so far behind on updating core products. I just don't buy it.

 

I have yet to see reasoning behind NOT bringing the S-Max over. Risks? Yes. Potentials outweigh those risks? Yes, yes yes.

 

Scott

[Biker16]

Instead of addressing the various points above, let me state my opinion clearly and concisely:

 

No half measures. Design it HERE for sale HERE.

 

I don't think that's all over the map. I think that's pretty darn clear.

Thats too rigid for a global market. Andis not customer focused Wake up the majority of cars sold west of the missisppi are Forgien.

 

The pattern of ford being a collection of companies has come to an end, The absolutist veiw like yours must die allow for a more flexible and healthy view of the global industry today not 5, 10 or 20 years ago.

 

The fact is Ford doesn't have the resourses to "Design it HERE for sale HERE." mentality to work. unless Ford is to be the worlds number 5 automaker.

 

The imports don't design it here! and they are kicking our ASS. they Make better american cars than americans.

 

"It's just nothing but opportunity because of the complexity we have and the fact that we have grown up as a regional set of Fords," he said. There's "just a lot of opportunity to leverage talent and the vehicles and the powertrains and the engines across this global Ford."

 

Ford CEO Alan Mulally

 

I am not of an absoulutist view like yourself. we need to design our core N.A. products here on global archtechtures. and be willing to allow our global assests Mazda, FoE, FoA ad PAG to do what they do best. Not to reinvent the wheel, and have duplicate platforms, and manufacturing to serve things other than the business.

 

Richard grow up.

[RichardJensen]

Thats too rigid for a global market.

What global market?

 

I live in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, I buy my groceries in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, I buy my cars in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, I drive my car in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, I buy my consumer electronics in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

 

I couldn't care less what people are driving in Berlin. When I buy a car, I want a car that suits ME. And guess what? I'm not alone. You'll find that just about every car buyer on this country that doesn't spend time debating these points on internet forums agrees with me. They don't want some odd looking space vehicle that is real popular in Europe. They want a vehicle that will improve their standing with friends and family, a vehicle that makes them feel better about themselves. That's the reality folks, and if Ford can't be bothered to design vehicles for people HERE they should just as well get out of the car business entirely.

 

There is NO SUCH THING AS A GLOBAL MARKET.

 

Maybe for Big Macs and Corn Flakes there's a global market, but for cars? Not on your life. This is not Europe. This is not even Great Britain, this is the United States, and if you don't think there's a difference between this country and Europe that should be taken into consideration when making such tiny and inconsequential decisions such as, oh, I don't know, launching a car springs to mind, anyway, if you think the differences are so inconsequential, why don't you ask Ford how well that worked out with the Cortina and the Capri and the XR4Ti and the Scorpio and the Contour and the Mystique and the Focus.

 

I repeat, there is NO SUCH THING AS A GLOBAL MARKET.

 

There are hundreds of markets and while it is not feasible to make different products for each and every market out there, it certainly IS feasible to make distinctive products for the wealthiest country in the known universe.

 

Global Market, like what? I'm going to London to buy my next pair of socks? I'm going to Hong Kong for a good deal on ice cream? I'm buying my furniture from Buenos Aries because they're having a great sale.

 

Talking about Global Markets and advocating seat of the pants decision making like "oh hey this sells in Europe maybe it will sell stateside. Let's not do any research at all, let's just gamble a hundred million or so and see if it works" is irresponsible. The one displays an addiction to buzzwords that is out of touch with reality and the other is definitively absolutely unequivocally irredeemably bad business.

[RichardJensen]

The imports don't design it here!

Yes they do. Honda's Accord is NA specific, the Camry is all but designed stateside, the Sequoia, Sienna, Tacoma, Tundra, and Avalon are ALL designed in the U.S.

 

Pardon the rant, above, but I will not support the insistence that no research is needed before bringing over the S-Max, that its success is all but assured, with only the slightest of (obvious) tweaks.

 

And Ford NA most certainly has the resources to take an competent architecture for a vehicle that will sell between $20 and $30k and give it NA specific sheetmetal, a NA specific interior design (the molded plastic and seats, not the electronics and HVAC), and an off the shelf NA drivetrain.

 

I mean maybe I'm the nut-bar here, and maybe that last post proves it, but I just don't see why taking the extra time to design an S-Max type vehicle for the NA market is a bad idea.

 

And then again, maybe I'm mistaken in thinking that just bringing over a vehicle that sells reasonably well in Europe without testing the market to see if there's a demand for it, is stupid. I don't know. You guys tell me.

 

You think Ford should just strip off options on the S-Max and swap out the grill and call it good?

 

Or do you think they should design an NA specific interior, so the S-Max doesn't look like Ford cheaped out?

 

Then, if you think the Explorer is ugly because they basically grafted a nose that doesn't match the rest of the sheetmetal, do you think Ford should just put a different grille insert on the S-Max and call it a Mercury?

 

Finally, do you think Ford should just stick in the Duratec 4 that fits, with no AWD option? Or should Ford engineer this for the Duratec 35/30, and available AWD?

 

I mean if you figure Ford should re-jigger everything fore of the A pillar to fit V6 NA powertrains (PAG I6 is a no-go), and you figure Ford should come up with a better interior than just taking the S-Max interior and substituting cheaper plastics and less features, and you figure Ford should tweak more of the sheetmetal than just the nose so you don't have an odd-ball vehicle like the '06 Explorer, well how far away from my suggestions are you?

 

The S-Max would have to change in many ways in order to be sold here, so why not just take the vehicle's base parameters and platform, and give it its own sheetmetal and interior?

[ZanatWork]

All righty, then, let me put it this way:

 

1. I've yet to see a post from anyone (excepting maybe Richard) regarding that vehicle as anything but overwhelmingly positive...and these posts are from Americans.

 

2. The vehicle's worth and execution seems well proven, at least thus far.

 

3. A funny thing about perception...it's largely about visuals. A phenomenally handsome vehicle like that would get Ford on front pages more or less instantly.

 

4. Ford can't follow GM, Toyota, etc. forever for ideas...no matter how much Mulally likes the Toyota model. Pulling this into NA production would be grounds for a true "Bold Move" that no one saw coming. "Hey, it's a beautiful Euro Ford...we'll never get it...what the @#$!???, there's one at my dealership!"

[RichardJensen]

All righty, then, let me put it this way:

 

1. I've yet to see a post from anyone (excepting maybe Richard) regarding that vehicle as anything but overwhelmingly positive...and these posts are from Americans.

 

2. The vehicle's worth and execution seems well proven, at least thus far.

 

3. A funny thing about perception...it's largely about visuals. A phenomenally handsome vehicle like that would get Ford on front pages more or less instantly.

 

4. Ford can't follow GM, Toyota, etc. forever for ideas...no matter how much Mulally likes the Toyota model. Pulling this into NA production would be grounds for a true "Bold Move" that no one saw coming. "Hey, it's a beautiful Euro Ford...we'll never get it...what the @#$!???, there's one at my dealership!"

1) How many of them have purchased one, or been in one? You talk about bench racing all the time, well here it is in all its glory. Getting all worked up about a vehicle that maybe two people on this board have seen, that nobody on this board owns, with a price for sale stateside that no one on the board can guess. That's bench racing in its purest form.

 

2) The vehicle's worth and exectuion seems well proven, at least thus far. Just like the Ford Scorpio, and the Ford Mondeo. The Ford Mondeo was the 1994 EU car of the year. Sure sold well stateside too, didn't it?

 

3) beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can't speak for the car buying public at large, and you know that.

 

4) Putting a Euro-spec vehicle into production stateside would hardly be a bold move. Contour/Mystique? Focus? Who cares what they're selling in Europe. Ask the Germans how they like the Mustang. And, btw, how many people, right at this very instant in time are thinking, "Gee, I wish Ford sold their European cars here. I have this $25,000 burning a hole in my pocket and only a European designed Ford will do." I mean that's an exaggeration, but to be more serious, how many people do you think would actually buy the S-Max because it's European, and it can be purchased here?

 

How many people got that excited about other "European" Fords?

 

Why do you think that this time will be different?

[Biker16]

There is NO SUCH THING AS A GLOBAL MARKET.

 

 

yaris? Fit? Corvette? all suabrus, MAzda6, Mazda3, Corrolla, Civic, Acura, Lexus, infiniti, Merc, BMW.

 

would not sell the Mazda6 here because it was designed in japan?

 

should Ford design cars only for the midwest and south east , and that no ford product ever bedesigned for puerto rico, or the subrubs out side LA? there are americans that like european cars, and there are americans that like large RWD sedans and coupes. that we don't sell because they were not designed here. these cars are more Ford than the Fusion trio or the D# bunch. they were not designed here and we cannot offer it to the customer. how insane is that?

 

You don't make product descions simply because of where it was designed, that is Not smart.

 

you are asking the wrong question, the is the good enough and is there a market for the product. where it is mnade has nothing to do with those two simple questions. and neither nor I know the answers.

 

IT is a fact you can sell products from other countries in the US.

 

Mulally is racing to rationalize Ford's product portfolio on global platforms rather than the regional product structure he has inherited.

 

Ford CEO Alan Mulally

 

Why do you think that EUCD can't fit a V6? it can fit a V8 but not a V6? I do know that engineering is not one of your strong points. you remember the Struts vs double wishbone thing.

 

 

And Ford NA most certainly has the resources to take an competent architecture for a vehicle that will sell between $20 and $30k and give it NA specific sheetmetal, a NA specific interior design (the molded plastic and seats, not the electronics and HVAC), and an off the shelf NA drivetrain.

 

resources? why would you change the vehicle greatest asset, to fit the percived wants of people who would not buy this car. we are nto aiming for the domstic buyers we are aiming for the people that already like import products. To make it more american would be counter productive. you won't 400,000 of these cars this is a very focused product, focused on people that live 1000s of miles from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, they may have different views on what they want in a car than you do.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Biker16

[RichardJensen]

yaris? Fit? Corvette? all suabrus, MAzda6, Mazda3, Corrolla, Civic, Acura, Lexus, infiniti, Merc, BMW.

 

would not sell the Mazda6 here because it was designed in japan?

 

should Ford design cars only for the midwest and south east , and that no ford product ever bedesigned for puerto rico, or the subrubs out side LA? there are americans that like european cars, and there are americans that like large RWD sedans and coupes. that we don't sell because they were not designed here. these cars are more Ford than the Fusion trio or the D# bunch. they were not designed here and we cannot offer it to the customer. how insane is that?

 

YOu don't make product descions simply because of where it was designed, that is Not smart.

 

IT is a fact you can sell products from other countries in the US.

 

Mulally is racing to rationalize Ford's product portfolio on global platforms rather than the regional product structure he has inherited.

 

Ford CEO Alan Mulally

Hmm. Let's look at your list: import, import, domestic (here, which is what we're talking about), import, import, import, import, import, import, import, import, import, import.

 

Do you see a trend there?

 

Ford is an AMERICAN car company. Their products need to reinforce that identity. Any move you make that does not reinforce your brand's identity takes away from it. What would happen if Starbucks started selling donuts? Would it help to argue that Dunkin Donuts sells donuts AND coffee? If Starbucks started selling hamburgers would it help to argue that McDonalds sells hamburgers AND coffee?

 

Look at the brands in this country that have been impeccibly maintained, that command price premiums. They have been overseen by people that understood the value of a name. Look at what Ralph Lifschitz accomplished starting out selling ties in the financial district. Why? Because he understood the value of making a brand (Polo) stand for something, and by not wavering from that. You may not like Ralph Lauren products, but his success is indisputable. Why? Because he understood that people buy a brand, they buy a name, they buy what that brand stands for.

 

If your brand is just an odd-ball collection of cars that don't match, on what basis do you get people to buy your latest vehicle? If they have no idea what you stand for, then what, exactly are you selling? IN the end, if you have no reputation, the only thing you can sell off of is price.

 

Ford's vehicles need to look "American", they need to offer a lot of bang for the buck, they need to look tough, durable, capable, from the lowly Focus all the way up to the F450. The European S-Max just doesn't match. It doesn't fit, and if it doesn't fit, it doesn't belong.

 

BTW, quoting Mulally's comments about rationalizing ARCHITECTURES should not be construed as a drive to sell 'one kind of cheese, with one kind of burger to put it on'.

[Biker16]

some more customer focus shots of the galaxy

 

[CurtisH]

Guess I'll pile on, too. I think Ford should bring it to America as a Mercury.

 

RJ, I agree with you much of the time, but not on this.

[RichardJensen]

some more customer focus shots of the galaxy

Don't care.

 

Design vehicles for the United States.

 

It's like this huge country with lots of wide open spaces (for some of us :D) and 300,000,000 people and this 12 trillion dollar gross national product.

 

Maybe Ford should actually design vehicles for this country? Hm?

 

Maybe Ford's sales in this country (which are subsantially higher than they are in Europe), justify investment in unique products for this country.

 

Maybe instead of taking the lazy and dangerous way out, of just bringing over EU products, maybe Ford should only sell vehicles here that they design here (I don't care where the stuff you don't see comes from, I care about where the stuff you DO see comes from).

 

But I guess I'll just have to be the lone lunatic on this one. With my stupid stubborn insistence that Ford stop trying to find easy ways out of its current predicament, with my half-witted notions that Ford should overhaul their product development system, so that they design cars here for people here that actually want them.

 

Yep. I'm headed straight for the looney bin folks. Straight for it.

 

Be seein' ya folks. They're coming to take me away.

 

Edited November 15, 2006 by RichardJensen

[Biker16]

Ford is an AMERICAN car company. Their products need to reinforce that identity. Any move you make that does not reinforce your brand's identity takes away from it. What would happen if Starbucks started selling donuts? Would it help to argue that Dunkin Donuts sells donuts AND coffee? If Starbucks started selling hamburgers would it help to argue that McDonalds sells hamburgers AND coffee?

 

If your brand is just an odd-ball collection of cars that don't match, on what basis do you get people to buy your latest vehicle? If they have no idea what you stand for, then what, exactly are you selling? IN the end, if you have no reputation, the only thing you can sell off of is price.

 

Ford's vehicles need to look "American", they need to offer a lot of bang for the buck, they need to look tough, durable, capable, from the lowly Focus all the way up to the F450. The European S-Max just doesn't match. It doesn't fit, and if it doesn't fit, it doesn't belong.

 

I agree this is why I would advocate not selling the B-cars as fords, becuase it distract from the goal of making a car to fit the needs of that demographic. Ford is not and will never be Cool and hip like Scion or Min is today. because it is Ford, and everything that you said above. this is reason I am not buying Fords now because the image of this brand does not reflect me.

 

back to the S-max I would not sell it as a ford either, mercuy's image should be european which it kinda is already, the problem is that the Ford's that they are based on limit it ability to reach the target market. poeple willing to pay more than they are for a Ford.

 

which is more important brand image or the overall product?

 

BTW, quoting Mulally's comments about rationalizing ARCHITECTURES should not be construed as a drive to sell 'one kind of cheese, with one kind of burger to put it on'.

Richard you don't grasp the big picture, form now on ALL fords should follow the same rules. all archtechtues, will be developed with ability to meet the needs of the Global Market.

 

right now we have 5 independent Fords developing and producing cars for each regions and doing things their own way.

 

the future is one sytem of product development, one manufactureing system, and sharing of resources.

 

when the Focus was luanched in the US they assembly proceedures were different from the european plants that launched 18 months earlier. what happened because of that was that The lessons learned form the european plants could not be easily applied to the US plants, what happened over 5 years of prodution was that the Europeon plant became some of the most productive plants in the world, while the Us plants did not, the quality problems all evolved form the lack communications, between the US and Europe.

 

even our "Flexible plants" are not compatable US Vs europe, we are a patch work comapny that over 100 years has fragmented into redundant fiefdoms, they may all say Ford they are very different.

 

My feeling is that Ford's PD and manfacturing will become more like europe's where we have had a continiuos cycle of product improvement, and brand image improvement.

 

"It's just nothing but opportunity because of the complexity we have and the fact that we have grown up as a regional set of Fords," he said. There's "just a lot of opportunity to leverage talent and the vehicles and the powertrains and the engines across this global Ford."

 

At Boeing, Mulally was a student of and advocate for the Toyota Production System.

 

He envisions a Ford with more models made on fewer platforms and fewer assembly lines in plants that are similar across the globe.

 

"All of a sudden, the utilization goes up, the commonality goes up, productivity goes up, the quality goes up," Mulally said.

 

Ford CEO Alan Mulally

 

I hope that the future , allows for more production of european products in american plants , and vice versa.

 

There is no global Ford prodction system, we need one, because simply developing vehicles in global archtechtures but not allowing for global production is insane.

[RichardJensen]

"mercuy's image should be european"

 

nonononononononononono!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It's not about the brand, it's about the CUSTOMERS. You've got these totally different Mercury customers.... What do THEY want?

 

"which is more important brand image or the overall product?"

 

They are equally important. There is no deciding between the two. Deliver both, or deliver nothing at all.

 

"one sytem of product development, one manufactureing system, and sharing of resources."

 

Again, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

One manufacturing system, Si! Sharing of resources, Si! Sharing of facilities, Si!

 

Sharing design?

 

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

Okay we've got these certain hardpoints dictated by suspension design, powertrain package, front and rear crash structures, and the center B pillar 'ring'. Fine. Say we've got the floor pan pretty much as a hard point. We've got these constraints we need to work with because of the design of the architecture. We've also got these fixed number of instrument cluster designs, stereo/HVAC designs, switchgear designs, etc.

 

What is left? A lot of sheetmetal, a lot of interior materials, a lot of interior design and a lot of suspension tweaking.

 

Leave that to FoE, Ford NA, etc.

[Guest Sixcav]

"Maybe instead of taking the lazy and dangerous way out, of just bringing over EU products, maybe Ford should only sell vehicles here that they design here"

 

Well that would be just great Richie except that most of the shit they are designing here is just that. Personally I like this little car, I wouldn't mind seeing Ford sell something like it here. It's no secret I've been a big advocate of the European deisgn Focus with the more aggressive body design and better looking rims. Instead we are going to get that ugly ass trash they are working on now and the hatch has been dropped from the lineup. Personally I've come to the conclusion that the Ford NA design teams are an out and out failure. They are out of touch with mainstream America, and they are incapable of bringing to the market the cars that Americans want. If Mulally is smart he'll include the entire sedan design teams in his white collar job cuts and start from the ground floor all over again.

[RichardJensen]

most of the shit they are designing here is just that.

Yeah. So instead of SOLVING the U.S. problems, they should just try to avoid the issue by bringing over EU products. Sounds grrrrrrrrrrrreat....

 

You have a problem with U.S. product design? You tackle it head on, you deal with it, and you move on. You don't say, "Oh well, U.S. product development is hosed. Might as well see if bringing over cars from Europe works".