Minivan comparision

[Biker16]

Caravan

 

Overall Height - Standard (w/o Roof Rails) [in] 68.9

Wheelbase [in] 113.3

Overall Length [in] 189.1

Overall Width [in] 78.6

 

Galaxy

Overall Height - Standard (w/o Roof Rails) [in] 67.8

Wheelbase [in] 112.2

Overall Length [in] 189.7

Overall Width [in] 73

 

 

The Galaxy is almost 6 inches narrower than the Caravan 4 inches narrower than the Odyssey.

 

This is 5in dfference in shoulder room in the second row.

 

The Galaxy is a 2+3+2 design

Caravn is 2+2+3

Odyssey Is 2+3+3

[igor]

narrow (among other things) is what has killed GM minivans for past decade.

 

Igor

[NickF1011]

narrow (among other things) is what has killed GM minivans for past decade.

 

Igor

 

But they have the biggest noses in their class!!!

[RichardJensen]

See, that's why you need distinct body engineering for the U.S. Ford would need to offer an extended length version (my understanding is that DCX sells a low percentage of standard length minivans), and they would definitely need to be wider. I can assure you of that.

[ZanatWork]

So put 'em on the show circuit and have a nice display at the NAIAS for the S-MAX showing off its award. Instead of guessing what the customer wants, put options in front of 'em and ASK...!

[rkisler]

Those who drive minivans in the US are willing to drive them in the face of low "status" because they offer an excellent combination of space, performance, and safety for the money. The market has been relatively stable, and Ford will evidently not be participating.

 

There are several defining characteristics among today's successful minivans as defined by Toyota, Honda, and Chrysler. To mention a few:

. Step through access to the rear seats via sliding door

. Step through to the front seats

. V6 powertrain

. Emerging trend of seats folding into the floor, not just seatbacks folding on top of the seat cushion

. The ability to put 4X8 sheets of plywood or drywall completely flat inside the minivan with the hatch fully closed.

 

The Galaxy and the SMax (a shorter, sportier Galaxy) simply cannot hold their own in the minivan market in the US. They certainly fail the plywood test -- when I looked at the dimensions, they look to be around 3" too narrow, even above the shock towers. The EUCD in its pure form (Mondeo/SMax/Galaxy) is not capable of packaging a V6. And when I look on the Ford England web site, it looks as if the 2/3/2 seating might require a flip/fold for access to the third row.

 

I'm not saying there is no market whatsoever for these vehicles in the US. But I would anticipate buyers might be coming from other vehicles that provide flexible space and economy. Maybe PT Cruisers, Scions, Elements, wagons?? But I also anticipate that the buyers might be split between young families and empty nesters. In each case, my opinion is they would appeal most to those who are financially constrained and pricing will also be hemmed in by low series models of full size minivans. Not a good thing for generating a business case.

 

The above combined with all of the issues of platform/plant (most of which Richard has mentioned in numerous posts) would seem to make any consideration of Galaxy/SMax a non-starter for now.

[156n3rd]

I have owned 3 mini-vans. An '88 Voyager, a '95 Villager and an '88 Aerostar. I tend to agree that a smaller sized unit wouldn't work here. The UK units look really sharp and it'd be cool to see them made larger for the US market because they have excellent content and quality. What makes the Honda so sought after? It is the most costly unit out there, right? And how about the Kia and Hyundai units winning those safety awards? Mind boggling. Chrysler invents the things and still can't shut down small quantity competitors.

[Biker16]

Those who drive minivans in the US are willing to drive them in the face of low "status" because they offer an excellent combination of space, performance, and safety for the money. The market has been relatively stable, and Ford will evidently not be participating.

 

There are several defining characteristics among today's successful minivans as defined by Toyota, Honda, and Chrysler. To mention a few:

. Step through access to the rear seats via sliding door

. Step through to the front seats

. V6 powertrain

. Emerging trend of seats folding into the floor, not just seatbacks folding on top of the seat cushion

. The ability to put 4X8 sheets of plywood or drywall completely flat inside the minivan with the hatch fully closed.

 

The Galaxy and the SMax (a shorter, sportier Galaxy) simply cannot hold their own in the minivan market in the US. They certainly fail the plywood test -- when I looked at the dimensions, they look to be around 3" too narrow, even above the shock towers. The EUCD in its pure form (Mondeo/SMax/Galaxy) is not capable of packaging a V6. And when I look on the Ford England web site, it looks as if the 2/3/2 seating might require a flip/fold for access to the third row.

 

I'm not saying there is no market whatsoever for these vehicles in the US. But I would anticipate buyers might be coming from other vehicles that provide flexible space and economy. Maybe PT Cruisers, Scions, Elements, wagons?? But I also anticipate that the buyers might be split between young families and empty nesters. In each case, my opinion is they would appeal most to those who are financially constrained and pricing will also be hemmed in by low series models of full size minivans. Not a good thing for generating a business case.

 

The above combined with all of the issues of platform/plant (most of which Richard has mentioned in numerous posts) would seem to make any consideration of Galaxy/SMax a non-starter for now.

 

I would like to see how they do on the Auto Show Circut. with Fuel economy being such an issue today there may be enough interest for people to step down.

 

I think there is a misunderstanding that we are try to be honda or toyota or DCX. We would never touch those volumes with this product. it is outside of the mainstream intentional, as to not beconsidered as head on competition. But as the most Practical CUV on the market. Could you sell 60,000 Galalxys, 60,000 S-maxs, and 80,000 Mondeo in north america, under the mercury brand? if you can do than you afford a new focus plant.

[156n3rd]

Too bad Forward Thinking wasn't the program when the Freestar was built. It has to be right on par with GM's phony, long-nosed current minis. The Windstar could have continued with better everything, but it was cheapened and demeaned to death. We'll see if any of the new beasts can sell worth a darn.

[rkisler]

I would like to see how they do on the Auto Show Circut. with Fuel economy being such an issue today there may be enough interest for people to step down.

 

I think there is a misunderstanding that we are try to be honda or toyota or DCX. We would never touch those volumes with this product. it is outside of the mainstream intentional, as to not beconsidered as head on competition. But as the most Practical CUV on the market. Could you sell 60,000 Galalxys, 60,000 S-maxs, and 80,000 Mondeo in north america, under the mercury brand? if you can do than you afford a new focus plant.

 

Biker, I have nothing against this type of unique product, but I don't think people will step down from US sized minivans. Rather, I think the volume will come from other types of vehicles that offer utility in a smaller size. I mentioned a few, and I would also add small crossovers/SUV's such as Escape.

 

My opinion is that the S-Max and Galaxy combined might get you to around 60-80k total (not each), but that's totally a guess.

 

For a lot of reasons, I think any consideration of this type of vehicle is going to have to wait until C2 is here in the US and any ultimate merging of CD3 and EUCD. But this could take a while.

[Biker16]

Biker, I have nothing against this type of unique product, but I don't think people will step down from US sized minivans. Rather, I think the volume will come from other types of vehicles that offer utility in a smaller size. I mentioned a few, and I would also add small crossovers/SUV's such as Escape.

 

My opinion is that the S-Max and Galaxy combined might get you to around 60-80k total (not each), but that's totally a guess.

 

For a lot of reasons, I think any consideration of this type of vehicle is going to have to wait until C2 is here in the US and any ultimate merging of CD3 and EUCD. But this could take a while.

 

That volume would be on par with the D3 trio.

 

You sound too much like richard, I am suspicious.

[RichardJensen]

short answer: I don't think you could sell 240k EUCD vehicles under the Mercury brand. The brand cannot see volume increases of that size in a tight market. You're talking about, essentially, displacing roughly one third to one quarter of all KIA/Hyundai sales. Don't think that's going to happen, and since these vehicles aren't priced to bring new buyers into the market, you're going to have to get volume at someone's expense.

Edited November 23, 2006 by RichardJensen

[Edstock]

Well, the EU product gets noticed.

Check out Vince's take on

 

http://thehollywoodextra.blogspot.com/

 

Maybe, just maybe, the domestic van should like like this.

[ebritt]

I love my 06 MPV.

 

 

 

 

 

[Biker16]

short answer: I don't think you could sell 240k EUCD vehicles under the Mercury brand. The brand cannot see volume increases of that size in a tight market. You're talking about, essentially, displacing roughly one third to one quarter of all KIA/Hyundai sales. Don't think that's going to happen, and since these vehicles aren't priced to bring new buyers into the market, you're going to have to get volume at someone's expense.

D3 is ~180k units.

 

you could sell 140k EUCD here and you could even export production to over 100 countries also.

 

I would love take market share at someone elses expense, wouldn't you?

 

mercury's volume used to be over 250k, it could be again.

[RichardJensen]

mercury's volume used to be over 250k, it could be again.

True.

 

Of course, it doesn't seem to make sense to bank on stealing market share, and build capacity with that assumption in mind.

[markfnc]

Ok, i'm stupid. What is the Galaxie? Is it the new name of the upcoming Fairlane?

 

 

We love our freestar. Big gas tank, good mileage. We like the 3rd row folding flat, or turning around for tailgating. we like the saftey ratings, how it drives, it is quiet. we had a 2000 taurus wagon before we got the 2005 freestar, and loved the taurus too.

[Biker16]

True.

 

Of course, it doesn't seem to make sense to bank on stealing market share, and build capacity with that assumption in mind.

if you had to spend 1 billion dollars to spend at Ford what would you spend it on? what would be worth the investment.

[RichardJensen]

if you had to spend 1 billion dollars to spend at Ford what would you spend it on? what would be worth the investment.

Don't quite follow the question? This is what? A billion taken away from another project, or a billion dollars out of the middle of nowhere?

 

If I was at Ford, got a billion bucks out of nowhere, and had the opportunity to spend it on whatever (an extremely unlikely occurrence), I'd spend it pulling ahead C2, and on a better variety of 'C' class vehicles for Ford--including moving the Escape/Mariner/Tribute on C2.

 

BTW, I just saw a funny Chrysler does Jill Wagner commercial. Coulda swore they hired the first person they could find that looked like her. Finished off with an offer of $3k off a 2007 Chrysler 300C. Things are tough all over, I guess.

Edited November 26, 2006 by RichardJensen