Should Ford sell Lincoln?

[TStag]

Okay time to be a bit controversial. PAG is all of a sudden looking good and even Jaguar is starting to turn the corner. The XF concept looks like a winner and the XK is sold out. Land Rover is booming and Volvo is looking good. Aston is also flying high.

 

But Ford USA is bleeding cash and doing badly. PAG needs money to grow and make more money. Lincoln is just a US brand with no international sales ambitions and will ultimately just bleed market share to PAG, BMW, Merc, Lexus et al. At a time when the competion grows their market share internationally and spends even more money developing their cars (last Range Rover cost 1 billion pounds to develop).

 

Given the fact that Lincoln has no international growth ambitions then why not just flog it to someone who will invest in it? Or if it can't be sold why not even consider shutting it and splitting the dealer network up between the PAG brands. Ford would probably make more money that way.

 

For what it's worth I don't think this is the answer, but it highlights some interesting points. Why is Ford contemplating selling bits of PAG when clearly they are thinking internationally. And why don't Ford build Lincoln models for export? The best of it is this. Ford own the Rover brand. They have hundreds of Land Rover dealers all over the globe. Why not simply make a car the size of a BMW 3 series with a Rover Grill and badge on and export? People in the UK are familiar with the tarnished Rover brand, but get the car right and the British public will buy it if sold by Land Rover as a Rover.

 

If Lincoln isn't likely to sell outside the US then quite frankly Ford should swing the axe here and not at PAG. Ford USA needs to show sme metal. The Mustang is a great start by Ford. But Mercury and Lincoln need to keep their end up!

[fllcobra]

Who would buy Lincoln?

 

And why would Ford sell it when it has some of the highest margins per vehicle in Ford's empire?

Edited December 23, 2006 by fllcobra

[Surgen]

Who would buy Lincoln?

 

What could you sell? Lincoln has no separate plants. There are no 'Lincoln' employees. Lincoln-Mercury dealers couldn't survive on the Lincoln volume alone.

[g48150]

No

[Watchdevil]

The answer is no... Lincolns are Fords... And no matter what some people think, Lincoln is still an important American luxury brand. It just needs direction and good management.

[JETSOLVER]

What could you sell? Lincoln has no separate plants. There are no 'Lincoln' employees. Lincoln-Mercury dealers couldn't survive on the Lincoln volume alone.

 

+1 There is no equity there except for the dealer body. If Ford wants to reposition the brand, then Ford will have to adsorb the costs/risks. No body else would.

[TStag]

+1 There is no equity there except for the dealer body. If Ford wants to reposition the brand, then Ford will have to adsorb the costs/risks. No body else would.

 

My point is that Lincoln is looking increasingly unviable because it only really sells cars in the USA. If you compare Land Rover sales to Lincolns sales globally then you would see that Land Rover is miles ahead. Yet bizarely Land Rover could be sold and Lincoln retained. So rather than obsessing about fixing PAG why doesn't Ford start at home by making cars that Lincoln that can sell outside the USA. Once again I would remind Ford that they now own the Rover brand. All Lincoln need to do is build a car like the Chyrsler 300c and slap a Rover badge and grill on it for Europe and their sales figures could rise significantly. Otherwise if Lincoln aren't carefull then they continue to see the competition grow at home and sales drop. Ultimately if Lincoln's sales figures get any worse then Ford may well consider axing them and letting Land Rover and Jag move into sell alongside Mercuries. Why not? They could axe a few more unprofitable plants and still sell lots of premium motors.

[Hellcat_F6F]

Lincoln should be LINCOLN. Not rebadged Fords. Lincoln isn't a gussied up Fusion, it isn't some cheap-ass Hecho En Mexico piece of shit. Lincoln is seperate, and superior to, any Ford or Mercury. It costs more to build a Lincoln, the tooling is different..they aren't slapped together on the same line as a Ford. The current vehicles that Ford builds that way, that they CALL Lincolns..arent. Slapping a "Lincoln V8" cover on the same 5.4 that any F150 has doesn't make it distinct..it makes it CHEAP. If Ford thinks they can pawn off so-called Lincolns that way, then they SHOULD sell the name to someone who knows what to do with it.

 

Ford needs to look back at what Lincoln was, and should still be. Bring back a Mark, make it something that coddles the driver and passengers, make it luxurious, a cut above, and give it some BALLS...like any serious luxury car has. Nice as pie to drive, but when you get on it, look out. No excuses. If you can't afford it, too f*ckin bad.

[Roadrunner]

Ultimately if Lincoln's sales figures get any worse then Ford may well consider axing them and letting Land Rover and Jag move into sell alongside Mercuries. Why not? They could axe a few more unprofitable plants and still sell lots of premium motors.

 

I do not believe there are any plants that build a Lincoln model that does not build a Ford or Mercury model.

 

Fusion/MKZ plant = that's a fucking investment

Crown Vic/Town Car = they won't kill STAP... yet (no offense but you guys need a new or additional product on your lines for your plant's survival from what I see)

Mark LT = Built at... the remaining F-150 plant (pause... KCAP ? Educate me.)

Remainer of products = built at places where they also build Fords and Lincolns.

 

Additionally, Lincoln has a semi-cash cow status. It's a gussied up Ford in many* cases.

 

* - all cases, now that the LS is dead?

Edited December 24, 2006 by Roadrunner

[Linc]

:slap: No! That's absurd. I almost shed a tear *listening* to you guys. I'm hurt.

[ebritt]

Lincoln should be LINCOLN. Not rebadged Fords. Lincoln isn't a gussied up Fusion, it isn't some cheap-ass Hecho En Mexico piece of shit. Lincoln is seperate, and superior to, any Ford or Mercury. It costs more to build a Lincoln, the tooling is different..they aren't slapped together on the same line as a Ford. The current vehicles that Ford builds that way, that they CALL Lincolns..arent. Slapping a "Lincoln V8" cover on the same 5.4 that any F150 has doesn't make it distinct..it makes it CHEAP. If Ford thinks they can pawn off so-called Lincolns that way, then they SHOULD sell the name to someone who knows what to do with it.

 

Ford needs to look back at what Lincoln was, and should still be. Bring back a Mark, make it something that coddles the driver and passengers, make it luxurious, a cut above, and give it some BALLS...like any serious luxury car has. Nice as pie to drive, but when you get on it, look out. No excuses. If you can't afford it, too f*ckin bad.

Actually , yes it is, yes it is, and yes it is. That is why it is sucking hind tit. Lincoln needs to seperate itself from the crowd and be different. Edited December 25, 2006 by ebritt

[LincolnFan]

Topic Creator, I want to :slap: you.

[sranger]

The correct answer is that Lincoln should be to Ford what Acura and Lexus is to Honda and Toyota....

 

Lincoln simply takes a Ford and tarts up the interior and exterior a little. It might look nicer, be a little more quite and comfortable, but it has no real preformance advantage. What they need to do is add some Ford Racing preformance to go with the glitz....

 

Look how sucessful cars from Roush, Saleen and Shelby have been. The look better and perform better... That is the key to sucess...

[2pintsplease]

Lincoln should be LINCOLN. Not rebadged Fords. Lincoln isn't a gussied up Fusion, it isn't some cheap-ass Hecho En Mexico piece of shit. Lincoln is seperate, and superior to, any Ford or Mercury. It costs more to build a Lincoln, the tooling is different..they aren't slapped together on the same line as a Ford. The current vehicles that Ford builds that way, that they CALL Lincolns..arent. Slapping a "Lincoln V8" cover on the same 5.4 that any F150 has doesn't make it distinct..it makes it CHEAP. If Ford thinks they can pawn off so-called Lincolns that way, then they SHOULD sell the name to someone who knows what to do with it.

 

Ford needs to look back at what Lincoln was, and should still be. Bring back a Mark, make it something that coddles the driver and passengers, make it luxurious, a cut above, and give it some BALLS...like any serious luxury car has. Nice as pie to drive, but when you get on it, look out. No excuses. If you can't afford it, too f*ckin bad.

 

 

I completely agree. At any rate no Ford should ever be slapped together, Henry turns in his grave every time one is, but once upon a time Lincoln was the very best car money could buy. It all went wrong after the 60's when Lincoln products gradually became Fords-with-extra-walnut-in-the-dash, rather than LINCOLNS. Just like Henry would turn in his grave if he saw the build quality of some of today's Fords, Edsel would be mortified to see Lincoln, his pet project, being sold as a Ford that's been supersized for 50 cents. Lincoln needs to compete with top European marques as it did way back when. That does not mean Lincoln should copy them; it never has, but should be offering elegant, full size vehicles suited to the American market. That means cars that are priced like Mercedes, but are American in design. America has forgotten that these cars existed, but the best example was probably the first Lincoln Continental. I think Ford is concentrating on Lincoln competing with Cadillac, and in doing so is failing to see the forest from the trees. By realigning Lincoln as an American alternative to BMW, Mercedes etc; rather than as a competitor to Cadillac, it will also allow Mercury to move into broader territory. I am not suggesting that Mercury be the competitor to Cadillac, as Cadillac will need to follow Lincoln's new direction in order to survive, and then Mercury can fill the small market for Lincoln as we know it today.

 

All the best to Ford, its going to be a mission getting back on track.

[tcap for now]

I completely agree. At any rate no Ford should ever be slapped together, Henry turns in his grave every time one is, but once upon a time Lincoln was the very best car money could buy. It all went wrong after the 60's when Lincoln products gradually became Fords-with-extra-walnut-in-the-dash, rather than LINCOLNS. Just like Henry would turn in his grave if he saw the build quality of some of today's Fords, Edsel would be mortified to see Lincoln, his pet project, being sold as a Ford that's been supersized for 50 cents. Lincoln needs to compete with top European marques as it did way back when. That does not mean Lincoln should copy them; it never has, but should be offering elegant, full size vehicles suited to the American market. That means cars that are priced like Mercedes, but are American in design. America has forgotten that these cars existed, but the best example was probably the first Lincoln Continental. I think Ford is concentrating on Lincoln competing with Cadillac, and in doing so is failing to see the forest from the trees. By realigning Lincoln as an American alternative to BMW, Mercedes etc; rather than as a competitor to Cadillac, it will also allow Mercury to move into broader territory. I am not suggesting that Mercury be the competitor to Cadillac, as Cadillac will need to follow Lincoln's new direction in order to survive, and then Mercury can fill the small market for Lincoln as we know it today.

 

All the best to Ford, its going to be a mission getting back on track.

 

i completely agree. in my opinion ford needs to sell jaguar, land rover, and aston martin. that would be a help in downsizing the company. which would allow ford to focus on the names they are known for, ford lincoln and mercury. volvo has a lot to offer in safety and engineering ans well as sales over seas. now that pag is starting to turn around its time to sell.

 

it should be ford lincoln mercury till the end of time.

[J-150]

Lincoln should be LINCOLN. Not rebadged Fords. Lincoln isn't a gussied up Fusion, it isn't some cheap-ass Hecho En Mexico piece of shit. Lincoln is seperate, and superior to, any Ford or Mercury.

 

 

Since when?

 

Every Lincoln I've seen in the past 30 years has been a Ford with different sheetmetal and a few extra power toys. Lincoln has dressed up F150s, Expeditions, Explorers, Crown Vics, Granadas, Tauruses...

 

Only one Lincoln has fulfilled your description... the LS. ANd that was abandoned while they continue to sell reskinned pickups, SUVs and taxis.

[2pintsplease]

Since when?

 

Every Lincoln I've seen in the past 30 years has been a Ford with different sheetmetal and a few extra power toys. Lincoln has dressed up F150s, Expeditions, Explorers, Crown Vics, Granadas, Tauruses...

 

Only one Lincoln has fulfilled your description... the LS. ANd that was abandoned while they continue to sell reskinned pickups, SUVs and taxis.

 

 

You'll enjoy driving a Mercury then, which was originally the car that fitted your description. To look back over the past 30 years only is a bad move, considering everything Lincoln has done over that period has lessened the reputation it had before then. Lincoln should reign supreme over every other American car. This cannot be done by sharing most components, as in Town Car. If there is to be any code-sharing it should be between like brands, ie Lincoln sharing chassis and engines with Jaguar.

 

What a pity this never made it to production:

[jlsaylor]

You'll enjoy driving a Mercury then, which was originally the car that fitted your description. To look back over the past 30 years only is a bad move, considering everything Lincoln has done over that period has lessened the reputation it had before then. Lincoln should reign supreme over every other American car. This cannot be done by sharing most components, as in Town Car. If there is to be any code-sharing it should be between like brands, ie Lincoln sharing chassis and engines with Jaguar.

 

What a pity this never made it to production:

 

I disagree with your solution, but not with your problem. If Ford's were as good as they should be then component sharing, and even limited platform sharing, wouldn't be a problem. Certainly it seems unlikely that a proper high end Lincoln could share something as sweeping as a platform with a Ford, but component sharing is practical even here. But again only if Ford is as good as it should be. The problem is that it is likely that either both will be good or neither will be good, since the same managment ultimately dictates the fate of both. If management isn't competent to run one they likely aren't competent to run the other either, which ultimately makes the argument over who is appropriate to share platforms with secondary.

 

So ultimately no, Ford shouldn't sell Lincoln. In reality this would be little more than trying to cure an illness by ridding yourself of the symptoms instead of the cause of the disease.

Edited January 21, 2007 by jlsaylor