New TRD Tundra??

[JLaudioF150]

 

Will Ford respond?

[92merc]

I chuckle everytime I see the "TRD" on the side of a Toyota. I can't help but think "TURD".

[LincolnFan]

a TURD Tundra? isn't it already a one?

 

sorry can't help it.

[JETSOLVER]

Yet another example of Ford CREATING a new market, setting the standard high, making a few bucks on a new(Bold?) idea and then abandoning it for every other manufacturer to plunder at will. Screw Fords excuses, they blew another good idea.

 

As someone who had a close family member buy a Lightning on my recomendation, I would tell her to have a long look at this. As yet, this is the closest to the Lightning ethos, I have seen.

 

Edited December 31, 2006 by JETSOLVER

[ebritt]

I just love how stupid some people are. When GM or Ford make a truck or SUV with gobs of power , it's just another "gas guzzler" screwing up the environment.

But when Toyota does it 10-15 years later...........It's bold, amazing and a class leader! How did the Americans drop the ball?!?

JACKASSES!!

[JETSOLVER]

I just love how stupid some people are. When GM or Ford make a truck or SUV with gobs of power , it's just another "gas guzzler" screwing up the environment.

But when Toyota does it 10-15 years later...........It's bold, amazing and a class leader! How did the Americans drop the ball?!?

JACKASSES!!

 

Ford doesn't make a follow on. Dodge never hit the same market with its insane SRT-10, which was never developed to the same balance as the Lightning and sold accordingly. The Chevy 454SS was a pretender.

 

This Toyota concept is now the closest to production unit to take over that market(BTW Ford sold 40 000 Lightnings) Thats 40 000 premium retail customers and 40 000 premium invoices to potentailly brand loyal customers who were abandoned not once but TWICE by Ford! They have no replacement Ford, so they will look at, and in many cases buy a Toyota like this, FOR THE SAME DAMN REASON THEY HAVE ALL THE OTHER PRODUCT FORD USED TO SELL THEM!!!!!!!!!! That is how they dropped the ball. Is this hard to understand?

[silvrsvt]

This Toyota concept is now the closest to production unit to take over that market(BTW Ford sold 40 000 Lightnings) Thats 40 000 premium retail customers and 40 000 premium invoices to potentailly brand loyal customers who were abandoned not once but TWICE by Ford! They have no replacement Ford, so they will look at, and in many cases buy a Toyota like this, FOR THE SAME DAMN REASON THEY HAVE ALL THE OTHER PRODUCT FORD USED TO SELL THEM!!!!!!!!!! That is how they dropped the ball. Is this hard to understand?

 

 

The Lightning has been on the market since 1993 or so, and only 40K units? Not really a good return on numbers.

 

Every time I see the new Tundra, the grill looks like it has been sucking a lemon...

[Blueblood]

As I asked in another thread... What's your source for this info?? A link, anything..

 

You can't just go posting pictures and claiming these kinds of things without sowe sort of source that verifies your info..

[JETSOLVER]

The Lightning has been on the market since 1993 or so, and only 40K units? Not really a good return on numbers.

 

Just so we are all on the same page with this...

 

The Lightning was made in two generations. From 93-95 they made about 11 000 of them, based on the old design. As well, the 351 was in part the proof of concept for the 95 R COBRA. Economy of scale. Break. Still small, SVT realigns to focus on the upcoming Mod Cobra's. Break.

 

The clean sheet design next gen F150 (97-04) 99+ Lightning sold an average of just less than 5000 units a year peaking in 01 with the refresh at 6400 units. Considering that it was a one time design effort, left alone for most of its life, and the fact that the iron block 5.4 and the roots blower made appearances in other high margin trucks and cars(c'mon, you know )and suddenly the business case looks pretty reasonable. Economies of scale again.

 

Not to mention the fact that Ford itself refered multiple times about how SVT not only paid for itself, it was about MORE than just unit sales, it was about all the cred, the loyalty and the press that SVT got. And there is the little matter of Ford and its new "leader" hitting the press pretty hard over the last couple of years about the need for a truck and a car built on the SVT hallmarks.

 

So, nine years of die hard loyalty and free advertising pissed away. Two heavily hyped yet still born concepts, both designed to renew the program. Ford desperate to hang on to a shrinking group of return customers of a market it pretty much SOLELY OWNED! AND NOW, the company that has replaced it in the hearts, minds and monthly payments of middle America, has decided it might be yet another niche to plunder, while Ford wrings its hands and its shrinking bottom line, yet the remaining fans scoff out of what must be sheer willful ignorance of the reality.

 

Any of this ringing alarm bells? This is the story of the mess at Ford in one tidy little package, repeated OVER and OVER and OVER again. Hate Toyota if you choose(although it is said that pure hatred can only exist as a mirror emotion, admiration, fear?), but if the fact that Toyota see the same window here as it has time an time again in other Ford and GM product lines doesn't shake you awake, you may be one of the product planners that has Ford in such a state.

 

Worse, your prepared to go down with the ship. Thats not heroism, its foolishness.

Edited January 1, 2007 by JETSOLVER

[JETSOLVER]

Three minutes with Google and I find this

 

some Toyota forum

 

I have no interest in stumping for Toyota, but I find the parallels chilling to say the least.

 

"TRD is 'Toyota Racing Development, the small 'skunk-works' type R&D shop just a few minutes from Toyota's North American headquarters in Torrance, CA. "

 

Letsee, 200 engineers whose purpose in life is to put their marque in first. Corporate support and a meaningful budget. Bringing all activities under one small roof, focus on specific engineering and styling goals. Pretty much all stuff that our hometown hero just this spring DISMANTLED!

 

Now they show a concept truck with an intercooled eaton blower, a new V-8, and a relativly restrained but aggresive styling package. Where have I seen this before?

 

 

Edit; And I recall seeing just this month that Lexus wants to do something along the lines of the BMW M and SVT programs?

Edited January 1, 2007 by JETSOLVER

[JW]

Jetsolver is close - the latest-generation L debuted in 1999. So the numbers for that one are in the 30,000 range.

 

In any case, Ford should respond on some level. And they'd be wise to take note of the 6-speed.

[MROLDV8]

I chuckle everytime I see the "TRD" on the side of a Toyota. I can't help but think "TURD".

 

 

Same here.

 

MR

[tim kakouris]

i'm telling you, corporate attitude at ford must be "anti fun" or "anti cool", even if the idea makes money. we may have to get used to the idea that ford wants to sell appliances and get out of the car rat race altogether.

 

wake up, ford. myself and a lot of other people have been defending you since the 70's, but our arms are getting tired.

[68fastback]

Same here.

 

MR

 

reminds me: when is dan davis going to change the name of Ford Racing Technology (FRT) for the same reason <lol>

 

I noticed at SEMA that GM showed a full-on LS7 (dry sump, titanium rods/valves) in a Lightening-esque Sierra short-box. I sure hope Ford steps-up again to the Lightning -- soon , even if Sporttrac based! ...before everyone on planet earth copies Ford -- I guess if Nissan does one the copy-cat cycle will be complete!

 

.

[F250]

Toyota has been building the new generation Tundra since 1Nov2006 with only the carryover 4.0v6 and 4.7v8 engines because they can't get their only new V8 the 5.7L into production.

 

They mismanaged the entire project and their new 5.7L V8 was originally not scheduled to begin production until Aug07. Now they change their minds and move 5.7L production 6-months ahead of schedule because they know if they introduce the new, heavier Tundra with the old carryover engines the truck will get spanked in the compairson tests. Not to mention they want at least one new engine for their all-new Tundra.

 

Before everyone gets hyped up about this new TRD let's look at their accomplishments thus far: Big ugly TuRD stickers available on all Toyota pickup trucks that come with standard engines, transmissions, axles etc. The TuRD package includes as it's only performance part Bilstein shocks...every other part is available as stand alone options on standard Toyota trucks. So for many years all they have done is put an option package of shocks, LSD, fender flairs and big ugly TuRD stickers. Big deal.

 

Every day since the new Tundra production began without a new engine Toyota has been scrambling to throw something together quick and dirty to actualy launch the truck. This new TuRD is just thrown out to keep people distracted from their serious problems which are delaying the launch.

 

If their history is any measure this TuRD will never be factory produced but some of the parts may make the TuRD parts catalog.

[68fastback]

Toyota has been building the new generation Tundra since 1Nov2006 with only the carryover 4.0v6 and 4.7v8 engines because they can't get their only new V8 the 5.7L into production.

 

They mismanaged the entire project and their new 5.7L V8 was originally not scheduled to begin production until Aug07. Now they change their minds and move 5.7L production 6-months ahead of schedule because they know if they introduce the new, heavier Tundra with the old carryover engines the truck will get spanked in the compairson tests. Not to mention they want at least one new engine for their all-new Tundra.

 

Before everyone gets hyped up about this new TRD let's look at their accomplishments thus far: Big ugly TuRD stickers available on all Toyota pickup trucks that come with standard engines, transmissions, axles etc. The TuRD package includes as it's only performance part Bilstein shocks...every other part is available as stand alone options on standard Toyota trucks. So for many years all they have done is put an option package of shocks, LSD, fender flairs and big ugly TuRD stickers. Big deal.

 

Every day since the new Tundra production began without a new engine Toyota has been scrambling to throw something together quick and dirty to actualy launch the truck. This new TuRD is just thrown out to keep people distracted from their serious problems which are delaying the launch.

 

If their history is any measure this TuRD will never be factory produced but some of the parts may make the TuRD parts catalog.

 

I think you're right in that Toyota seems to be using the TRD brand just to cast a broader net to the semi-conscious buyer -- not the true enthusiast that SVT targets. They're doing the copycat thing they do so well.

 

GM on the other hand understands the enthusiast much better and an LS7/SS Sierra cannot go unanswered by Ford/SVT -- I certainly hope!

 

.

[JETSOLVER]

Before everyone gets hyped up about this new TRD let's look at their accomplishments thus far: Big ugly TuRD stickers available on all Toyota pickup trucks that come with standard engines, transmissions, axles etc. The TuRD package includes as it's only performance part Bilstein shocks...every other part is available as stand alone options on standard Toyota trucks. So for many years all they have done is put an option package of shocks, LSD, fender flairs and big ugly TuRD stickers. Big deal.

 

Sigh; are you a part of advanced product planning perchance? You just described the recipe for the current watered down Harley edition.

 

By your thinking, Toyota, and by extension anyone else,who has not up until now been a player in this particular Ford playpen; the fact that they identified it as a niche worthy of display space at the worlds largest automotive glam fest means nothing? They must have no interest in this market, because they haven't been in it in the past?

 

Jebbers, that thinking sure has worked good up until now hasn't it?

 

(That last was irony by the way)

[Blueblood]

Still waiting for any kind of info that says they are going to produce their SEMA truck.

 

Every manufacturer has all kinds of crazy performance vehicle at SEMA, it doesn't mean they are going to be producing them anytime soon.

 

Ford had a little roadster on display that weighed about 1300 lbs and was powered by a blown 3.5, an Ariel Atom crusher, but I doubt we'll ever see anything like that at the Ford dealer...

[68fastback]

Still waiting for any kind of info that says they are going to produce their SEMA truck.

 

Every manufacturer has all kinds of crazy performance vehicle at SEMA, it doesn't mean they are going to be producing them anytime soon.

 

Ford had a little roadster on display that weighed about 1300 lbs and was powered by a blown 3.5, an Ariel Atom crusher, but I doubt we'll ever see anything like that at the Ford dealer...

 

Yeah, true... you mean this little jewel?

I think it was there to show the 3.5 V6 holds 500HP with a Vortech with no problem ;-) Notice that the floor-stand spec sheet is blue -- meaning this project was near and dear to Ford's heart (they play their little color coding/logo games every year -- kinda fun to crack the Ford 'code-du-jour' at SEMA

[ebritt]

Ford doesn't make a follow on. Dodge never hit the same market with its insane SRT-10, which was never developed to the same balance as the Lightning and sold accordingly. The Chevy 454SS was a pretender.

 

This Toyota concept is now the closest to production unit to take over that market(BTW Ford sold 40 000 Lightnings) Thats 40 000 premium retail customers and 40 000 premium invoices to potentailly brand loyal customers who were abandoned not once but TWICE by Ford! They have no replacement Ford, so they will look at, and in many cases buy a Toyota like this, FOR THE SAME DAMN REASON THEY HAVE ALL THE OTHER PRODUCT FORD USED TO SELL THEM!!!!!!!!!! That is how they dropped the ball. Is this hard to understand?

You completely missed the point!

When Ford and GM and Dodge did it, they were villified. These were completely unecessary and environmentally unfriendly vehicles that should never have been built.

But NOW that Toyota is doing it, it's great! These are wonderful vehicles.

 

WTF!!!

 

 

Is that hard to understand??

[Keyser Soze]

You completely missed the point!

When Ford and GM and Dodge did it, they were villified. These were completely unecessary and environmentally unfriendly vehicles that should never have been built.

But NOW that Toyota is doing it, it's great! These are wonderful vehicles.

 

WTF!!!

Is that hard to understand??

 

Since when has pressure from the Sierra Club ever changed a major automakers product plans? Is the extended Expedition an answer to pacify the environmantalists? Maybe the GT500? BTW, I don't see any environmental groups exactly giving out awards to the Sequioa or Pathfinder Armada. I case you missed it, Toyota and Honda have been harshly critisized by environmental groups for using hybrid technology to improve performance instead of for maximum economy. Do the imports care? I doubt it. Those in the market for a hybrid Lexus SUV probably do not carry Earth First cards anyway.

 

See you're mixing two distinct groups together. Environmentalists bashed ford for products like the Excursion. Were they ever the target market? No. The people that would get excited about the TRD Tundra are the same people that were the target market for the Lightning. Those who villified the 454SS and Lightning will undoubtedly do the same to Toyota, assuming the thing gets made. That seems highly unlikely in its current form.

[ebritt]

Since when has pressure from the Sierra Club ever changed a major automakers product plans? Is the extended Expedition an answer to pacify the environmantalists? Maybe the GT500? BTW, I don't see any environmental groups exactly giving out awards to the Sequioa or Pathfinder Armada. I case you missed it, Toyota and Honda have been harshly critisized by environmental groups for using hybrid technology to improve performance instead of for maximum economy. Do the imports care? I doubt it. Those in the market for a hybrid Lexus SUV probably do not carry Earth First cards anyway.

 

See you're mixing two distinct groups together. Environmentalists bashed ford for products like the Excursion. Were they ever the target market? No. The people that would get excited about the TRD Tundra are the same people that were the target market for the Lightning. Those who villified the 454SS and Lightning will undoubtedly do the same to Toyota, assuming the thing gets made. That seems highly unlikely in its current form.

I never said anything about the Sierra club (wackos) or any of the usual suspects. It was the general tone taken by the liberal media, politicians and goofy talk show hosts and as much coffee table talk.

 

BTW...I dont think anybody outside L.A. actually listens to anything from the Sierra Club.

Edited January 4, 2007 by ebritt

[Keyser Soze]

I never said anything about the Sierra club (wackos) or any of the usual suspects. It was the general tone taken by the liberal media, politicians and goofy talk show hosts and as much coffee table talk.

 

BTW...I dont think anybody outside L.A. actually listens to anything from the Sierra Club.

 

I find it amusing when people throw around words like "liberal" in an attempt to undermine some other viewpoint. What exactly is the definition of "liberal" in this context?

 

No doubt that some in the media took a dim view of vehicles like the Lightning and 454SS. If you can find any of these SPECIFIC sources that now praise Toyota for this concept I will concede the discussion. I won't hold my breath. Those who are concerned with fuel consumption, pollution and safety are not going to be any more pleased with a Toyota version of the Lightning than they were with the original.

 

Although the position of organizations like the Sierra Club may be extreme, I don't find them to be any more "wacko" than the other extreme. Hopefully both sides balance each other out and we can make reasonable progress towards intelligent energy and environmental policy. I don't think we all need to be driving Smart cars, but we shouldn't be driving as many Yukons and Expeditions either. At least not for the type of driving the average buyer does.

[F250]

Sigh; are you a part of advanced product planning perchance? You just described the recipe for the current watered down Harley edition.

 

By your thinking, Toyota, and by extension anyone else,who has not up until now been a player in this particular Ford playpen; the fact that they identified it as a niche worthy of display space at the worlds largest automotive glam fest means nothing? They must have no interest in this market, because they haven't been in it in the past?

 

Jebbers, that thinking sure has worked good up until now hasn't it?

 

(That last was irony by the way)

 

Bad compairson. The Harley F-150 is a high end cruiser (like most Harley bikes) not an all-out high performance vehicle like the Lightning was. The Harley F-150 has many parts that are only available on a Harley, AWD, gauges, seats, dash, wheels, headlights, grille, taillights etc, etc.

 

Again, Toyota threw this TuRD out for the show but they have no intention of actually producing this truck. They can't even seem to get their regular 5.7L engine into production.

[68fastback]

Bad compairson. The Harley F-150 is a high end cruiser (like most Harley bikes) not an all-out high performance vehicle like the Lightning was. The Harley F-150 has many parts that are only available on a Harley, AWD, gauges, seats, dash, wheels, headlights, grille, taillights etc, etc.

 

Again, Toyota threw this TuRD out for the show but they have no intention of actually producing this truck. They can't even seem to get their regular 5.7L engine into production.

 

Toyota doesn't show anything they aren't seriously considering doing. They make take half-of-forever to do it (like Ford often does) but the fact that they did that concept means they are serious about the possibility of entering the SVT/Lightning market, eve if it's a watered down broader-net approach they are prone to do.

 

Poopooing their firt attempts at testing those waters will only engender attitudes that keep Ford off-guard. We should never underestimate the competition . I think it's safe to say that Toyota WILL enter this segment -- the only question is when and how narrow or broad the net will be cast, imo.