Mulally: Five Hundred should have been Taurus

[156n3rd]

Let's hope so. In the meantime, a lot of current D3 owners feel our cars have been orphaned, and we ain't happy with the blithering idiots in Ford management.

Wah Wah Wah, they never should have sold so many Taurii for fleet sales. You just keep pushing your singular notion and fail to see the rest of the picture. Now, Ford is trying to fix a mistake. 500 heritage? Please, if they were going use real heritage they would have given the car the rest of the name that goes with the number as in Galaxie, Custom and/or Fairlane. Your one track fleetsales mind shows nothing. It is just your little way of being heard for the sake of same. Toyota is kicking Fords ass and they sell to fleet, just like GM with Chevy and the rest. Besides, they screwed up on the 500 by making it ugly and choking in the HP department. You are just one of those guys who can't give something it's due. Many people on this thread have shut you down on your fleet notion. Rightly so. I don't care whose feelings are hurt, sniff sniff or who says the Taurus was no good. The numbers of sales and years says it all. You can never take that away from the Taurus which saved Ford 20 years ago and then Ford allowed the car to founder. I hope they name something Taurus for posterity and just because it's makes you twitch. My daughter survived a violent crash in a 92 Taurus L wagon. She walked away from the total destruction of the car. She's alive today because of that design. How much more do you want?

[retro-man]

Frank, you are a God. A God I say! (Well, maybe that's the sidecar talking, not me.....) The Taurus was/is a great car. Welcome back, long live the Taurus, and those of you who own a Five Hundred, also a very fine car, can console yourselves with owning a rare example of an interim period. (The 1960 Edsel was a nice looking vehicle.) A good car is a good car by any other name. But keeping the Taurus name alive is the right thing to do. I have hope.

[Len_A]

Wah Wah Wah, they never should have sold so many Taurii for fleet sales. You just keep pushing your singular notion and fail to see the rest of the picture. Now, Ford is trying to fix a mistake. 500 heritage? Please, if they were going use real heritage they would have given the car the rest of the name that goes with the number as in Galaxie, Custom and/or Fairlane. Your one track fleetsales mind shows nothing. It is just your little way of being heard for the sake of same. Toyota is kicking Fords ass and they sell to fleet, just like GM with Chevy and the rest. Besides, they screwed up on the 500 by making it ugly and choking in the HP department. You are just one of those guys who can't give something it's due. Many people on this thread have shut you down on your fleet notion. Rightly so. I don't care whose feelings are hurt, sniff sniff or who says the Taurus was no good. The numbers of sales and years says it all. You can never take that away from the Taurus which saved Ford 20 years ago and then Ford allowed the car to founder. I hope they name something Taurus for posterity and just because it's makes you twitch. My daughter survived a violent crash in a 92 Taurus L wagon. She walked away from the total destruction of the car. She's alive today because of that design. How much more do you want?

While I think your daughter surviving her accident is great, you can shove your comments up your ass. How much more do I want? More than a 29% resale value after three years. Fire sales to fleets, just to keep people employed, ain't going to cut it with me as a customer. At the end of the day, the same body style and interior that the automotive press derided as bland, boring, and God-knows-what-else is going to have a bit better name recognition. From the side, rear three-quarter view and the rear, a 2008 Taurus is still the same car as the 2005-2007 Five Hundred, and the people who rip on the Five Hundred 's styling will rip on 2008 Taurus. What improvements that were made to what was to be the 2008 Five Hundred aren't going to get a different reception in the automotive press because the car is now the Taurus.

 

If my resale value on my '05 Montego goes in the toilet, Ford loses me and my wife as customers, even if I stay in industrial sales in Detroit, even though my Dad is an hourly retiree. My salaried brother is taking a buyout and leaving anyway, and my shop as lost so much Ford business, Ford isn't even a significant customer anymore. This is just more boob moves by Ford.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the only thing we'll see is a bump in sales of the D3's back up to 2005 levels.

 

Toyota doesn't sell more than 12% of production to fleets, and that's why the used car manager at the former Stu Evans Lincoln-Mercury, now Metropolitan Lincoln-Mercury in Garden City, MI, said he was only giving me $1500 for my 1996 Taurus (when I traded it in, summer of 2005, for my 2005 Montego). He told me a 1996 Camry, same condition, same miles, would have got me $ 6800 to $7500. If I wasn't a returning A-Plan customer, I would have abandon Ford right there and there.

Edited February 7, 2007 by Len_A

[ebritt]

And in the process offend all the current Five Hundred/Montego owners who tried the car out as soon as it came out. Go to the MyFord500.com web site and see the reactions among current Five Hundred owners. The majority feel insulted.

All 12 of them???

 

[Len_A]

All 12 of them???

 

That's the most intelligent response you can come up with? Why don't you r try forty people against, three people for, spread out over about six threads.

Edited February 7, 2007 by Len_A

[2005Explorer]

As a former Ford Taurus owner who was one of the first to jump at owning one of the D3's, I say screw an discount. And considering that 60% of Taurus production, from 1999 to 2005, went to fleet sales, I would say that most of those "millions of Taurus owners" fled the Taurus long before it was designated fleet sales only and then canceled.

 

Where exactly do you think almost all of those fleet sales ended up??? I mean it's not like Ford sold a car for fleet duty and a year later it was dumped in the ocean. A huge majority of those fleet cars were sold to the rental chains who in turn would sell them off to retail customers in less then a year. There are millions of Taurus' and Sable's on the road and a lot of those customers probably really like their cars. Sure some hate them...but that can be said for any product ever made.

Edited February 7, 2007 by 2005Explorer

[NickF1011]

Where exactly do you think almost all of those fleet sales ended up??? I mean it's not like Ford sold a car for fleet duty and a year later it was dumped in the ocean. A huge majority of those fleet cars were sold to the rental chains who in turn would sell them off to retail customers in less then a year. There are millions of Taurus' and Sable's on the road and a lot of those customers probably really like their cars. Sure some hate them...but that can be said for any product ever made.

 

Those buyers would likely be in for some sticker shock when it comes time for a replacement though. With Ford no longer planning to churn out 60%+ of them for fleets, the residuals are going to be a heck of a lot higher than those on the Ex-Hertz-mobiles.

 

Len_A, and that's where your argument falls flat on its face. Simply because it has been renamed to Taurus in NO WAY indicates Ford has ANY plans to return it to its Fleet Queen status of years past. In fact, they will likely try to keep the fleet levels as low or lower than they were on the '06 and '07 Five Hundred. Residual values should be quite good.

[2005Explorer]

Those buyers would likely be in for some sticker shock when it comes time for a replacement though.

 

Very true statement! However they will also be in sticker shock if they try to replace with a Camry or Accord.

[NickF1011]

Very true statement! However they will also be in sticker shock if they try to replace with a Camry or Accord.

 

Valid counterpoint!

[2005Explorer]

Mulally gets praise for this move...

 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...70382&imw=Y

[Len_A]

Those buyers would likely be in for some sticker shock when it comes time for a replacement though. With Ford no longer planning to churn out 60%+ of them for fleets, the residuals are going to be a heck of a lot higher than those on the Ex-Hertz-mobiles.

 

Len_A, and that's where your argument falls flat on its face. Simply because it has been renamed to Taurus in NO WAY indicates Ford has ANY plans to return it to its Fleet Queen status of years past. In fact, they will likely try to keep the fleet levels as low or lower than they were on the '06 and '07 Five Hundred. Residual values should be quite good.

I hope you're right and that I'm wrong, but to me, the jury is still out, and will be for quite a while. I hope that there's more brains behind this move than what it looks like.

 

Image is still everything, and this is still a "cars as fashion" market. Let's hope everything works out as planned.

[156n3rd]

Len_A, my ass is just as happy as it can be because you bit and swallowed whole. Grow up and come back when you can figure out what it means to do so. At least I have my ass where it belongs, yours must be snugly fitted where it no doubt usually resides. :poke:

[156n3rd]

Frank, you are a God. A God I say! (Well, maybe that's the sidecar talking, not me.....) The Taurus was/is a great car. Welcome back, long live the Taurus, and those of you who own a Five Hundred, also a very fine car, can console yourselves with owning a rare example of an interim period. (The 1960 Edsel was a nice looking vehicle.) A good car is a good car by any other name. But keeping the Taurus name alive is the right thing to do. I have hope.

Just like it was said in The Shawshank Redemption, "hope is a good thing". I just wonder how people have nothing better to do than to HATE a CAR to the point of hating the person with the opinon! It's is amazing. I have spewed many times about several GM's in the past, but it is not so as to hate an opinon and someone who posseses it. The 1960 full sized Ford body was the most mis-understood of all. Canadian versions are way cooler than anything made here. See, someone from outside the Ford organization saw fit to give the Taurus it's due, and another chance. Excellent! Come on people these are cars, not government policy or Frenchmen!

[Mark B. Morrow]

If Mulally is really asking these questions, the future may be very bright indeed.

 

Mulally's already asking his executives to tell him why the company doesn't make some other corrections, including:

 

• Why don't we try to build the hotshot concept cars people love at our auto show displays? GM and Chrysler listen to their customers. Shoppers loved the Pontiac Solstice concept, and it was on the road in less than three years. People loved our Ford Synus, Interceptor, Mercury Messenger and Lincoln MKR concepts, but we hauled them off to a warehouse instead of cashing in on them.

 

• Why does Jaguar chase low-profit, low-image cars like the X-type instead of building what its customers want: fast, beautiful and gloriously luxurious cars it can sell at a profit?

 

• Why do we think our American customers should be satisfied with a Focus compact that's based on a geriatric platform that's not good enough for Mazda to use for its hot-selling 3 compact car?

 

• Why do we admire the design and dynamics of European Fords like the S-Max and the new Mondeo but sit on our hands instead of using them to spice up Mercury's meager lineup?

 

• Why don't we act like this is our last chance to save the company, and we can't afford to waste a single asset -- not a valuable name like the Taurus, not a great platform like the Mazda 3, not a head-turning design like the Mondeo station wagon?

 

The original 1986 Taurus saved Ford from failure. Tell me why calling the old hero once more into the breach isn't the best thing Ford can do right now to show it's back in the business of giving its customers what they want.

[Blueblood]

• Why do we think our American customers should be satisfied with a Focus compact that's based on a geriatric platform that's not good enough for Mazda to use for its hot-selling 3 compact car?

 

 

Yes!!!! He gets it!!!!! Yes!!!

 

You can do it Mullaly!!!!

 

Bring me a C2 ST/RS!!!!

[Blueblood]

• Why do we admire the design and dynamics of European Fords like the S-Max and the new Mondeo but sit on our hands instead of using them to spice up Mercury's meager lineup?

 

 

Yes again! But sell them at Ford dealers!

 

I only know of one Mercury dealership in my area..

[RichardJensen]

I mean it's not like Ford sold a car for fleet duty and a year later it was dumped in the ocean.

Actually, this is a pretty valid point.

 

Granted, not everyone in a program Taurus is going to be trading up for new.... But some will be able to.

 

A rather interesting positive side to a rather negative aspect of Ford's past errors.

 

And, as owner of a 2000 Sable (not surprisingly, a former program car), I can vouch for the rather solid nature of these cars... 45k miles on it (that's since I bought it, almost 100k total), and nothing into it except fluids and a starter that I changed out myself. Only one intermittent rattle somewhere under the steering column.

 

If people have the kind of experience I've had with my car, I would not be surprised if many of them trade up for new........

 

Of course, some chucklehead jammed the sunroof mechanism.... but that's operator error.

Edited February 8, 2007 by RichardJensen

[Len_A]

Len_A, my ass is just as happy as it can be because you bit and swallowed whole. Grow up and come back when you can figure out what it means to do so. At least I have my ass where it belongs, yours must be snugly fitted where it no doubt usually resides. :poke:

Your post shows how moronic the level of discussion gets to on these boards. If you're a salaried employee, I would be shocked if you're not one who is targeted to be canned if he doesn't take a buyout. If you're a Ford hourly employee, then the sophomoric level of your post isn't really a surprise.

 

The only place, as far as Internet forums, where this name change has been enthusiastically received, has been here, and mostly by hourly employees. Starting with the MyFord500.com forums (being renamed MyFordTaurus.com this, perhaps as soon as this weekend), and looking at the reader comments posted on The Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press web sites, Leftlanenews.com, and every other forum or blog I've seen has been overwhelmingly against the name change. Several of my neighbors who own and of the D3's hate the change. The three customers I call on, one with an auto supplier, two in the defense industry, that own Five Hundred's and Freestyle's hate the change. I've had several phone calls from Ford Research & Engineering contacts, that know exactly who "Len_A" is on these board", have called me, all backing up what I've said. Same with sales and marketing contacts. It's a sound argument that they never should have dropped the names in the first place, but that done,they should have thrown everything including the kitchen sink into marketing, promoting and advertising the Five Hundred, the Freestyle, and the Montego. No, instead, in the usual Ford manner of mismanagement, they orphaned the cars, slashing advertising drastically after the initial 2005 MY push.

 

That said, this name change has been driven as much by the Ford and Lincoln-Mercury dealers as it's been my Mulally. Still, those of us who bought the Five Hundred and Montego are still getting screwed. Hell, even the Free Press's Mark Phelan admitted as much to me in an email, although he still thinks the name change is a good idea, in the long run.

Len,

Thank you for writing.

 

You're right. It will alienate current owners, and make the remaining Five Hundreds harder to sell.

I think in the long run, it will pay off, though.

 

Thank you for reading the Free Press.

Best,

Mark Phelan

[RichardJensen]

Knock it off you guys, or the thread is closed.

[156n3rd]

Your post shows how moronic the level of discussion gets to on these boards. If you're a salaried employee, I would be shocked if you're not one who is targeted to be canned if he doesn't take a buyout. If you're a Ford hourly employee, then the sophomoric level of your post isn't really a surprise.

 

The only place, as far as Internet forums, where this name change has been enthusiastically received, has been here, and mostly by hourly employees. Starting with the MyFord500.com forums (being renamed MyFordTaurus.com this, perhaps as soon as this weekend), and looking at the reader comments posted on The Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press web sites, Leftlanenews.com, and every other forum or blog I've seen has been overwhelmingly against the name change. Several of my neighbors who own and of the D3's hate the change. The three customers I call on, one with an auto supplier, two in the defense industry, that own Five Hundred's and Freestyle's hate the change. I've had several phone calls from Ford Research & Engineering contacts, that know exactly who "Len_A" is on these board", have called me, all backing up what I've said. Same with sales and marketing contacts. It's a sound argument that they never should have dropped the names in the first place, but that done,they should have thrown everything including the kitchen sink into marketing, promoting and advertising the Five Hundred, the Freestyle, and the Montego. No, instead, in the usual Ford manner of mismanagement, they orphaned the cars, slashing advertising drastically after the initial 2005 MY push.

 

That said, this name change has been driven as much by the Ford and Lincoln-Mercury dealers as it's been my Mulally. Still, those of us who bought the Five Hundred and Montego are still getting screwed. Hell, even the Free Press's Mark Phelan admitted as much to me in an email, although he still thinks the name change is a good idea, in the long run.

Len_A, I work in a hospital recovery room.

[Roadrunner]

Knock it off you guys, or the thread is closed.

 

Huh??

 

It's on topic - some people don't like the 500 name change. Others (most of us) believe it was a great move.

 

(edit: Oh, just saw the backbiting. Yeah, instead of closing the thread I say just delete those posts and let the topic flourish)

Edited February 9, 2007 by Roadrunner

[Len_A]

Len_A, I work in a hospital recovery room.

OK, I stand corrected. Tough work, whatever you're doing, in that kind of environment, and I'm not being sarcastic either. My cousin is an ER doc in Missouri, and she earns every penny.

 

That said, everyone I deal with in the auto supplier side of this business thinks this name change is a weird move, include my engineering and marketing friends at Ford, but it's a dumb move compounded by the fact that they dropped the name in the first place and sold the old Taurus for another year to fleets only (and that did nothing to dispel the "fleet queen" reputation).

 

Now, if someone at the Glass House is smart enough to resurrect the SHO, and all the pieces are just about there, then all bets are off, and those of us bitching against the name change, myself included, can shut the hell up. If Mulally is bright enough to bring back the SHO, that can generate some showroom traffic. And the pieces are there to do a SHO - the 3.5 can go direct injection for a horsepower boost, the new six-speed should be able to handle the torque, the all-wheel-drive unit is now homegrown (and not the Haldex import), so Ford theoretically could pull an Audi, and engineer the motherf***** to be full-time AWD, 2008 Sable interior has a carbon fiber appliqué that could be used in place of the faux wood trim, and the aftermarket has had a deck-lid spoiler since shortly after the D3 sedans went on sale. Eighteen inch rubber already fits, and all they need is a sportier wheel design and pick some more aggressive tires.

 

Bring back the SHO, and show the market (no pun intended) that Ford is serious about giving the market some better product, and see if the press, and the car enthusiast segment of the Internet, doesn't bite on this.

[156n3rd]

To Len_A, I have to say that I DO NOT THINK THAT THE TAURUS IS OR EVER WAS THE GREATEST CAR EVER! I do think that during it's 20 years of being built, it did Ford alot of good and alot of harm. We all know what happened so I won't waste on about it. But, we all have to re-visit the opinon stuff here. Everyone has one, we may not like it and we may love it. My point? A heated discussion can very easily get out of control. And I really hate it when people hate something for hate's sake but it happens here often. As far as the naming of Taurus on the 500, well I've already said that I like what Taurus REPRESENTED. What it will represent is another matter because Ford screwed up the 500 (really poorly named, as in incomplete) from inception. Let's see if this decision works, and if it doesn't then it was wrong. If it does, they call the genius. It won't affect me as I'll still be driving my 2002 PTC because Ford doesn't make a model anything like it. Now that's another subject for debate. Finally, my memories of the 2 Taurus models I owned, (8 yrs. for the first and 7 for the second) makes me wish that the breed would have been tended and groomed along the way. Now, it's morphed into a sedan with an ugly ugly roofline. We'll just have to wait.

[Len_A]

To Len_A, I have to say that I DO NOT THINK THAT THE TAURUS IS OR EVER WAS THE GREATEST CAR EVER! I do think that during it's 20 years of being built, it did Ford alot of good and alot of harm. We all know what happened so I won't waste on about it. But, we all have to re-visit the opinon stuff here. Everyone has one, we may not like it and we may love it. My point? A heated discussion can very easily get out of control. And I really hate it when people hate something for hate's sake but it happens here often. As far as the naming of Taurus on the 500, well I've already said that I like what Taurus REPRESENTED. What it will represent is another matter because Ford screwed up the 500 (really poorly named, as in incomplete) from inception. Let's see if this decision works, and if it doesn't then it was wrong. If it does, they call the genius. It won't affect me as I'll still be driving my 2002 PTC because Ford doesn't make a model anything like it. Now that's another subject for debate. Finally, my memories of the 2 Taurus models I owned, (8 yrs. for the first and 7 for the second) makes me wish that the breed would have been tended and groomed along the way. Now, it's morphed into a sedan with an ugly ugly roofline. We'll just have to wait.

I don't agree about the ugly roof line, but I can see where some people won't like it. I'm not sure that with the high seating, it could have been done any other way. I like the "command seating" - that's why I bought my Montego. I was originally looking at a Mountaineer, because I got sick of sitting low in a sedan, especially with all the trucks, SUV's, and vans on the road. When I checked out the D3 cars, including the wagon (crossover my foot, lol - it's a wagon), I couldn't believe the ride, handling, and utility. Summer of 2005, when I bought my Montego, gas prices were already high, and there was no way, as a sales rep, I wanted the Mountaineer's gas mileage (heard enough from my parents about their Explorer).

 

So for me, the styling is a secondary issue. I was always a fan of "form follows function", which was the philosophy behind the orignal 1986 MY Taurus. Styling's appeal wears off on me early anyway.

 

They never should have let not just Taurus, but any of their sedans linger on for so long without updates, but that's a discussion that could get allof us really upset, really fast.

[2005Explorer]

And, as owner of a 2000 Sable (not surprisingly, a former program car), I can vouch for the rather solid nature of these cars... 45k miles on it (that's since I bought it, almost 100k total), and nothing into it except fluids and a starter that I changed out myself. Only one intermittent rattle somewhere under the steering column.

 

If people have the kind of experience I've had with my car, I would not be surprised if many of them trade up for new........

 

Of course, some chucklehead jammed the sunroof mechanism.... but that's operator error.

 

Well you know Richard...you could help Ford out a little this summer and trade that 2000 Sable in on a brand new 2008 Sable! The new Sable is a really attractive car.