My thoughts on Ford's 2008 lineup

[philsshon2]

From What I have seen on the web, here is my two cents.

Ford 500- With the New face, and the new 3.5, I think it will sell better. I would expcet about 10-15k more sold. If they redo the interior, then I could see even more sales. It will never be a knock styling wise, but that isn't what this car is all about. If you want a Sportier car, see Fusion. This is ment to be a nice comfortable Cruiser for long trips.

Focus- The Styling should no longer hold back a great car. I personally think that having a two bar grille, makes it sporiter than a three bar grill would. The interior will take some getting used to, but I'm hoping that it will feel good, and not cheap. I would expect the sales to hold steady with the loss the the Hatches.

Escape- I love the new tougher look, but ford should have at least given the v-6, the six speed auto, and maybe had the 3.5 as optional. I do not expect any big sales increase, should stay steady.

[calypsocoral]

From What I have seen on the web, here is my two cents.

Ford 500- With the New face, and the new 3.5, I think it will sell better. I would expcet about 10-15k more sold. If they redo the interior, then I could see even more sales. It will never be a knock styling wise, but that isn't what this car is all about. If you want a Sportier car, see Fusion. This is ment to be a nice comfortable Cruiser for long trips.

Focus- The Styling should no longer hold back a great car. I personally think that having a two bar grille, makes it sporiter than a three bar grill would. The interior will take some getting used to, but I'm hoping that it will feel good, and not cheap. I would expect the sales to hold steady with the loss the the Hatches.

Escape- I love the new tougher look, but ford should have at least given the v-6, the six speed auto, and maybe had the 3.5 as optional. I do not expect any big sales increase, should stay steady.

 

Ford 500-- The new powertrain will go a long way in garnishing some credibility to this car as a genuine contender to the Toyota Avalon and the Hyundai Azera. The front and rear fascias are both better, but something has to be done about that rounded, plump roofline...

 

Focus-- Shame they didn't bring over the C1 back in 2004, but I think the upcoming Focus certainly has a better shot at being a serious competitor to the Civic than the current one. I wish they kept the hatches, though, as they helped bring the Focus' "euro-centric" vibe to the forefront.

 

Escape-- you have to be kidding me. With Honda's CR-V and Toyota's RAV-4 kicking the truck-like appearance, a trend toward sleeker shapes is evident. Rising Anti-SUV sentiment will result in the new Escape's exterior working against it. The fact that it keeps an outdated chassis, outdated engine, and outdated transmission, in addition to DOWNGRADING to outdated brakes ensures that the Escape will successfully replace the Taurus as the new Rental Car Special. Overall, this supposed "update" was a stupid move on ALL fronts!

[swenson88]

Ford 500 - new powertrain will help, but I don't expect miracles. I'm not thrilled about how Ford adapted the "Fusion" grille to the 500, it just doesn't mesh as well, especially the headlights, when compared to the Fusion or Edge. Granted that's what happens when you try to add the new styling touches to a model created before they existed. Interior could have used some work, but to expect a completely new interior after just three years is unheard of. Overall I expect only a modest increase in sales.

 

Focus - The main thing I don't like is the front. I really like the interior and the rear. The side profile is better. Not a fan of the goofy "air vent" things Ford is slapping on every new vehicle, they're losing their coolness REAL fast. I'm also really disappointed in the coupe. For one it doesn't look like a coupe. It looks like a 2-door sedan. There's nothing sporty about the profile at all. I consider the cobalt coupe an attractive coupe. The Mustang is a beautiful coupe, as is the G35. Heck I even think the Accord coupe is decent looking. This thing has the same bad lines the old ZX2 had. Just looks "blah". Then there's the front. I really don't like the headlights, the foglights, and how the grille flows into the headlights and bumper. Just looks like a hodge-podge design, messy. I guess I didn't want an exact Fusion copy, but I wasn't expecting to be as turned off as I am to what the designers came up with. I think the new Focus will have improved sales, but it's a mystery to me as to how well it will do. I expect the media to criticize it non-stop for being the same chassis as 2000 Focus even though they still admit it drives better than most other compacts.

 

Escape/Mariner/Tribute - huge disappointments to me. I just don't like them from any angle. I've been preaching about how Ford needs to do "top hat" redesigns, but I was assuming they would use attractive top hats. These vehicles don't look "trucky" to me, they just look unattractive. The powertrains have become horrendously uncompetitive with the exception being the hybrid. Just when Toyota turns their cute-ute into a 270hp powerhouse Ford decides to leave in place the 200hp (now lowest V6 power) V6 and a 4-spd automatic? Jeeez. Why not just quit the segment while you're at it? Ford talked and talked about how car-based SUV's are the future and then blew their own future with an exercise in how to make cost-cutting completely obvious to the customer. I expect barely any increase in sales for this one.

 

2008 SuperDuty - should do well. I don't love the headlights but I like that Ford is trying to make truck drivers not blind people, that's decent of them. Other than that I guess I might have been hoping for new sheetmetal considering the truck is really just about 10 years old at this point. Didn't have to be revolutionary sheetmetal, but a little more different would have been nice. And again, stop it with the air-vents. They sure as heck don't belong on a 6K+ lb truck.

 

 

Overall I'm not that excited. Most of the recent intros have really let me down, either styling-wise or powertrain-wise. I hope Mulally is kicking ass in their because there really isn't much down at the Ford dealership that appeals to me anymore.

Edited January 11, 2007 by swenson88

[FLLMTR]

:reading: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Colum...rticleId=119082

[630land]

I think

 

The Focus 4 door will do well since it "looks different", the 2000 New Edge look is passe' i.e. The C1 looks too much like the C170, and would not have been a huge hit with buyers. Most of whom are not 'car buffs'. It is a good bridge to the C2.

 

500 - jury is out whether it will sell, since buyers think it should cost same as the old old old W body FWD Impala.

 

Escape - maybe Mr. Mullaly will order a crash re-design or something?

[focus05]

I think one of the key things to take away from the 2008 lineup is "transition."

 

First, the Super Duty is going to rock. I have a feeling that if it is built well and Ford can work out its issues with Navistar, this will be one hot selling truck. Not enough to avoid seeing some sales decline from Ford, but enough to keep them in the 750k range and probably number one. I can't wait to see a smaller block diesel in this truck (and the F-150). Then we'll see who is king.

 

The Five Hundred, I think, will get good reviews. I'm not sure if auto mags and journalists will like the style, per se, but I think they will like the ride and power enough to rate it competitive with the Avalon and Azera. I think its sales should be flat if Ford does it right as a result of higher retail but lower fleet sales. As for long term prospects? It will depend on how people who buy the car perceive it. My guess, though, is that the 500 will be much edgier in its next refresh, taking some of the cues from the Interceptor, and this model is but a stepping stone.

 

The new Focus, like many have said, is mostly likely a stepping stone before the C2. The C2 is due in Europe sometime in 2009, which means, if Ford is doing their homework, that it will be on our shores either in the fall of 2009 or the spring of 2010. This Focus, however, I believe will be competitive, and like the Five Hundred will see basically flat sales because of a decrease in fleet reliance and increased retail sales. The loss of the hatch is a bit sad, but my guess (hope?) is that this is a very strategic move. It seemed assured that the hatch was coming back in '08 up until not that long ago, and the reason I believe they dropped it (and the wagon) was because starting in early-mid '08 through early '09 we will see the B-platform cars (including a smaller CUV) arriving here in the U.S. I am expecting a launch sometime this summer. They are being updated in Europe as we speak and are due this fall there and in South America.

 

The new Escape, as it stands, is definitely better styled. In fact, I think that it is almost unique in its class becuase of its truck-ish look. I think that look will gain it a lot of admirers. That's where my compliments end. Ford botched this. My guess is that this will be replaced by a C2 version. But that is at least 3 years off. I hope that 6-speed and 3.5 make it in before then. If Ford wants to maintain its leadership in this space, it will have to, because the current powertrain is unacceptable. I expect flat sales its first year with steadily decreasing sales after that without the refresh of its powertrain. If it will really be 2010 before we see the new Escape, then I expect Ford to be selling well under 100k by then, even with heavy fleet reliance.

 

Overall, with the death of the Taurus and Freestar, Ford will lose 225,000 sales that will not be particularly missed except for once a month when ignorant news organizations start clamoring over the net decline in Ford's sales. Other than that 225,000, I imagine another 150k-175k will come off just from lower fleet sales for many vehicles and retail sales for some (Ranger and F-150). Add in the 100k from the Edge, and Ford, as a brand will probably lose something like 300k in sales. But, with most of those being fleet, I think it wil leave Ford in decent financial shape going into FY2008 where they will be launching a slew of products, if their bragging is backed up. I expect that 2007 will look very rough on paper until at least September or October and total FoMoCo sales down 10-12% in the U.S (although I expect retail to be flat). But, I expect 2008 to look fairly decent (back up 5-8%) and 2009 (maybe up as much 8-10%) to be the make or break year.

 

On the horizon...

 

Besides the B-cars, I am looking anxiously at a particular lauch: the 2009 Ford Fusion. The hybrid will not be launched until the 2009 MY, but with testing already beginning, I think that suggests an early 2009MY for the Fusion (with minor exterior and interior updates). I also think that this change over will show Ford's hand about where its engine strategy is going. The Fusion obviously needs a new V6, so what will it get? The Fusion also needs a new I-4, and what will happen there?

 

Currently, the 2.3L and 3.0L are increasingly orphans. Both are old engines that need significant attention or, better, complete overhauls based on the 3.5L. However, with Volvo's 3.2 I-6 and 2.4 I-5 (which is the 2.5 I-5 in the Euro Focus) sitting quite capable in their lineup, I wonder if we might not see the death of the 2.3 and the 3.0 and, instead, the 2.4 (2.5) and 3.5 or the 3.2 being dropped in the Fusion. Any of these would be great engines for the car - light-years ahead of the 2.3 and 3.0. That also begs the question of which will show up in the Escape. And hopefully we won't have to wait much beyond the launch of the 2009 Fusion to find out what exactly will be happening there.

[ANTAUS]

Whats' with the perception that the 2.3L is old and antiquated. It's really not that old, and it's just as modern as the competitors I-4 engines. This same engine in the turbocharged version just received an award from Wards 10 Best Engines. This Mazda designed engine is used worldwide is was part of Ford's plans to consolidate engine families. If anything, THAT family just begun not to long ago.

 

While there's the direct-injection turbocharged version, a larger variation of this engine is under works, 2.5L I believe.

[Kokomo M/W]

What's up with those rear brake drums? :shrug:

[Surgen]

Whats' with the perception that the 2.3L is old and antiquated. It's really not that old, and it's just as modern as the competitors I-4 engines.

 

Maybe he is mistaking it with the 2.3L in the Ranger - which is less technically advanced.

[RichardJensen]

What's up with those rear brake drums? :shrug:

It's not an issue with the Focus. Focus has had std. rear drums since the beginning.

[Hugh]

Maybe he is mistaking it with the 2.3L in the Ranger - which is less technically advanced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratec_...obal_straight-4

 

According to wiki, all Fords moved to the MZR I-4 in 2004-5. There are differences between the Ranger, Escape, Escape Hybrid and Focus/Mazda 3. And that is just the D23 for example.

 

I think having VVT (intake and exhaust) and DI across the board would be a step in the right direction for this engine line. That should give it some more years of life. After that, a displacement increase to 2.5 perhaps.

 

For the smaller sizes, maybe the 1.6 or 1.8L for the 'B' platforms with the previously mentioned modifications.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Hugh

[Kokomo M/W]

It's not an issue with the Focus. Focus has had std. rear drums since the beginning.

Sorry I should have made myself clearer, I was thinking I read that the Escape was going back to rear drum? Or maybe I'm just confused .Thanks

[RichardJensen]

Sorry I should have made myself clearer, I was thinking I read that the Escape was going back to rear drum? Or maybe I'm just confused .Thanks

yeah. The Escape's going standard rear drums across the range (except the hybrid). Probably to reduce overall cost, to 'pay' for goodies elsewhere

[ford-boy]

I've never really understood the need to have rear disc brakes, other than to keep up with others. 65% of the braking is on the front anyhow and rear drums should last a long time. You'd have to show me proof that the rear disc stops in a shorter distance than drums.

[taxman100]

Rear dics are much easier to service in your garage than drum brakes - I did the drums on my old 92 Taurus, and that is the last time i want to do drum brakes.

 

With disc brakes, remove the caliper, take the disc to NAPA and get it turned, get coffee at Tim Horton's, pick up rotor and back on the car.

 

Rear drums are a big negative for me as a shadetree mechanic.

[RichardJensen]

I reshoed the drums on my Contour, and as I'm getting ready to do this with a friend of mine he says, whatever you do, DON'T take both of them apart at once.

 

Man, he wasn't kidding either. The first drum was fine, but you practically have to stand on your head with the second one--nothing looks right. And a really big screwdriver is no substitute for a good spring tool. Unless you want to lose big chunks of your fingers.

[sa_seahawker]

500 - The update improves it...but not by much. And will someone PLEASE do something with that C-pillar! It reminds me too much of the older panthers (94-98).

 

Focus - Finally something cool for the small car market juggernaut. Even the interior is better.

 

Fusion - Not bad, but can still be better (looks-wise)

 

F150 - Dont change...ever! Well maybe the diesel and a Lightening would be nice.

 

Super-Duty - Proof positive why Ford is the best at trucks.

 

Expedition - Still nicer than a Tahoe (all the way around)

 

Explorer - Although it's still the best Explorer ever I can forsee its demise to GMs Arcadia/Vue/Enclave onslaught. Maybe turning it into a CUV could be a better idea than previous thought.

 

Escape - The new look is great but can it hold off the Toyotas? I'm holding my breath.

 

Edge - This thing continues to impress me. I don't think too much improvement is necessary...yet

 

Conclusion - The trucks are always great...but the cars are still lacking. If this Holden export plan by GM takes, Ford could fall farther behind in the car market. But the trucks are always the best (thankfully). Although, Hybrids would be welcome across the board. If they can make one out of an Escape, why not a hybrid Focus or Fusion.

 

Just my opinion...I could be wrong.

[cheri/ck]

I reshoed the drums on my Contour, and as I'm getting ready to do this with a friend of mine he says, whatever you do, DON'T take both of them apart at once.

 

Man, he wasn't kidding either. The first drum was fine, but you practically have to stand on your head with the second one--nothing looks right. And a really big screwdriver is no substitute for a good spring tool. Unless you want to lose big chunks of your fingers.

 

 

I know that GM has gone back to rear drums on a lot of vehicles - maybe to save a few dollars? From what I have seen, Ford steps in line with GM of late. I don't know much about brakes in general as every time I ever tried to service them, it wasn't pretty. Usually due to totally stuck in place rear drum brakes. I know you can rent the pullers, etc. - but maybe I just can't get the right amount of pull on the pullers. Not worth a hernia.

 

Our 1999 F-150 4X4 still has original brakes on it - 4-wheel disc - granted this truck has seen mostly highway miles. I expect one of these days my very good Ford dealer will say we at least need to do the fronts, but that hasn't happened yet at nearly 100,000 miles. But, then too, Ford tends to underscore the competition over and over in the big car mags with braking distance, hot rotors, fading brakes, etc.

 

I don't know, but I don't think drum brakes are the right answer. Maybe bigger, thicker slotted rotors and keep the disc brakes at all four corners?

[01TaurusDuratec]

I don't know, but I don't think drum brakes are the right answer. Maybe bigger, thicker slotted rotors and keep the disc brakes at all four corners?

 

I don't think they are the answer either. The '97 T-Bird I used to own had 4-wheel discs and its braking was far superior to my rear drum Taurus, despite being about 400lbs heavier. The problem with drum brakes on front-drive cars is they always lock up too early in panic stops and the car fishtails. ABS and brake-force distribution keep the car from swapping ends but I'd still rather have the extra control of rear discs.

 

I've never had a problem with warped rotors on any of my cars but I agree the domestics need to use better quality rotors.

[630land]

According to recent Automotive News story about Ford's plans, the Escape gets a 6 speed [and rear discs] finally the next generation, when is that? 2011?

 

Car magazine enthusiasts may hate the 2008 C170, but it has a "new look" to buyers that don't care about "how old is the platform"? Besides the vocal minority is getting their Euro desgined Focus next time around. Did they really think they can just "ship" C2's here via DHL?

[NickF1011]

Did they really think they can just "ship" C2's here via DHL?

 

Would really be difficult since C2 isn't in production yet.

[kevinb120]

Ford needs a Fusion Estate(wagon). I can't believe they dumped the Focus one, we sold a lot here. The hatchbacks are no big deal as the sedan's trunk was bigger anyway. Its ripe for the picking for an AWD wagon that costs less then the Legacy.

[controller]

I think what Ford needs to do with its future lineup is: A "B" segement sedan, coupe and wagon; and two performance type sedans. Ford only offers four cars, Chevy alone offers six, I think. Ford needs to at least double the amount of car offerings to bring in the customers. On the truck side, they need to bring back the baby Bronco to take aim at the Liberties and Xterras and build a brand new Ranger. And, to top it all off, build a good full size CUV, do that, I think they'll be ok. They did such a great job with updating the interiors of their vehicles, did they not have talent for exterior design? Throw a 6-spd tranny in everything with an option of 6 spd manual(in some of the models) and that will go a long way to being competitive. One more thing, Ford gave up on the mini-van segment. Last I heard they're still tops in the full-size van market. Why not fully update the E-series, make all the options in the truck/SUV vehicles (including 4X4/AWD) available in their vans, and advertise the crap out of that? Its not going to fix the company but they need to exploit their strengths right now.