jpd80

North American crude is mostly the light sweet, low sulphur type which is also very easy to refine. The unfortunate part is that most of the refineries are set up to process the heavier less sweet crude oil that’s normally imported from the Middle East. We all hope for true oil independence but I fear it’s still a ways off…..

I get that but also understand that this delay now means that this vehicle has been delayed a total of four years. Anyone looking on would naturally wonder if a different vehicle could have been developed instead (opportunity cost) and you know, given a decent ROI that could have been used to fund a future 3-row BEV…

Yeah and even if it was possible, ita good bet that Farley would have made sure the answer was no. Extending the existing Edge would be a huge embarrassment after taking up new BEV products. Its the same thing as when he ducked the dealer discussion, better to avoid a conversation altogether. Like I said in the other thread, Ford is redesigning these BEVs for the third time……Yikes.

It sucks man, Ford now has a huge hole in its product plans for the next few years. I can’t believe that Ford basically let Oakville go over a cliff without a contingency plan, almost compelling that their BEVs were probably so bad as to be hopelessly uncompetitive and now they’re going to redesign these things for a third time? ..F*** my brown dog.

The ball ripping thing here is that OPEC is desperately trying to raise the price of crude to $100/barrel and the US needs to fight this hammer and tong as it’s just the oil nations trying to bleed us all again. If that Price jumped to $100/ barrel, I think diesel becomes more in play but it needs advanced modern emission technology to drop emissions to super low levels. Bosch found the key after dieselgate but it wasn’t able to be retrofitted to existing diesels. It basically uses all existing emissions equipment but requires diesels to be run hotter and more importantly, the temperature controlled in a lot narrower range. https://www.bosch.com/stories/new-diesel-engine-technology/ Wondering if smaller diesel Gen set and battery setup would work better in semi trucks but that’s another topic..

With respect, I think California’s legislation is going to impact Cummins engine sales more than Ford. But you are right, Ford will wait until the last moment before deciding which way to go and whatever costs them less is they way they will swing. Would Ford entertain converting Powerstroke to 6.7 gas turbo or expand the Godzilla range with turbo? Or would they do nothing……

Also consider that the Ford 7.3 was not developed as a 6.7 Powerstroke replacement but as an affordable gasoline variant that is priced considerably less. The 7.3 MD is also an extension of the Super Duty application. By contrast, Cummins looks to be in a different situation and developing the 6.7 gasoline engine for a different purpose, as a replacement for the diesel version. It seems to have considerably more torque than the Ford 7.3, much closer to the rating of the diesel version (keeping mind the conservative rating system in Medium Duty) It looks like Cummins really needs the 6.7 gas engine to be a success in a much wider market…..

And what a refreshing change that would make to the way Ford traditionally does product envelopes, it’s like every project was deliberately limited so it could fit under an anticipated funding level… If the rumours are true, it could spell a massive paradigm shift at Ford but I won’t hold my breath.. If this architecture is as broad as I suspect, it’s no wonder why many projects have been delayed. If I could plagiarise FDR, ”The only thing Ford has to fear is Ford itself.”

The whole point to Ford setting up a skunkworks to develop small BEVs was to design and develop them with the kind of efficiency seen at Tesla and at a faster time line than possible as a Ford project. With a small team, it is possible that some existing projects and be reviewed either junked or vastly improved by using a different approach….maybe this is the real reason behind many current BEV projects being pushed back. Sometimes a brutal review of projects is good for business…

Word is that everything (BEV) is now getting pushed back, so maybe some “missing hybrid” versions of existing vehicles now become possible in the next year or so… Remember that this is Ford and like most things will probably overcompensate in another direction to act as a distraction from the mess that’s piling up on the Model E side….. A small wager that perhaps Model E will be used to bundle up a ton of BEV losses that can be written off over the coming years…while transferring continuing projects back under Ford Blue where expenses can be better managed as extensions under existing platform cost centres. Remembering that if the skunkworks vehicles are a big financial success, a lot of the BEV engineering and development section under Model E then becomes redundant as smaller BEV teams show much better efficiency and quicker delivery times.

Zero chance, CD6 Edge/Aviator was a late scrapping because the styling had serious issues so, money already spent plus extending CD4 until now, that boat has well and truly sailed. Its sad but the money that was wasted on developing CD6 should have gone into Aussie Falcon / Territory line of vehicles that could have supported everything from Mustang, Falcon, Fairlane to Edge /Explorer as well as a pickup but Mulally would have none of it.

(this view external to USA) Another annoying part of that data was that up until dieselgate, the European Union was quite happy to continue with the use of small capacity diesel engines but once VW was revealed as cheaters, the whole shooting box was thrown out to be replaced by gasoline hybrids. So then manufacturers began switching to hybrids and PHEV right about the time the green evangelists took hold in Euro politics and without any consultation decided to move the goalposts to a full electric future…from that time forward, ICE has been demonised to the point of being responsible for millions of deaths each year…. So yeah, the whole conversation is rigged towards eliminating ICE ASAP instead of considering an orderly transition. The zealots won’t have a bar of it…..

Hey Bob, the part I’m seeing is where Cummins says the new 6.7 gas engine shares many of the diesel’s parts, that would be akin to Ford doing a gasoline version of the 6.7 Powerstroke….in that respect, the 7.3 is way in front in terms of $$$ but if Ford was to compete maybe a high deck long stroker V8 is an easier proposition getting the 7.3 to 8 litres would need some work (4.5” stroke and higher deck block) but not impossible. ^^^^^^^^I don’t see Ford doing this by the way but interesting topic to explore if diesels are under threat.

That PHEV data is also distorted by the reality that many cities in Europe and UK have zero emission zones but to reach them on a commute, PHEVs have to run in the less efficient charge sustain mode. I seriously doubt that owners pay a premium to get a plugin hybrid and then just use it like a hybrid. That information is also being released to encourage European buyers to move from their current efficient diesels and hybrids to BEVs. The issue that they’re ignoring is that many European owners live in residences where any form of charging is hard to do and so most have to use public chargers which are to put it mildly, dreadful and rather expensive for a charge…...

Honestly, put the 3- row things back at Cuautitlan and give Oakville something better to build on a faster timetable.

Imagine how embarrassing it would be for Ford to cancel Mach E after one product cycle, they can’t bring themselves to do that and perhaps trying with better GE2 package will succeed. Honestly, put the 3- row things back at Cuautitlan and give Oakville something better to build on a faster timetable.

Aww man, I feel so much for you guys at Oakville……. Honestly, I’m now waiting for the other shoe to drop with regards to Blue Oval Center……

Some of us would just be glad if Ford starts RHD S650 production this year…

Combined GM brands adds up to 19%, combined Dodge/Ram/Jeep/Chrysler is 11.7% and Toyota/Lexus 13.5%. So it is what it should be based on traditional sales profile

Another reason why the new Everest is a really well thought out vehicle. The V6 diesel versions of Ranger and Everest are lovely an quiet like a gasoline engine… You guys probably don’t see much buffeting anymore but I’ve heard that one of the recent Silverado models from just a few years ago may have had this problem…

Thanks for sharing that, I just checked out the specs on the new C2 based Edge L and man, it’s nearly the size of the Explorer….a touch narrower and shorter but not much smaller. Makes me wonder what could have been if Ford had stuck with a FWD/AWD Explorer design shows how much of Ford’s North American production could have been consolidated under C2

It never ceases to amaze me just how efficient and smooth that epicyclic gear train is while on the move. Seamlessly balancing Electric power, variable gearing and the cut in of the ICE. All achieved by starting the design from a modified FWD Automatic transmission….

No, there was no evidence of that but man, the silence is deafening, not even drip feed. I understand but those announcements are a bit you know like the support acts to something major. Ford might be saving release for a bigger event…

You may be onto something there and normally at an event like that, Ford would be hyping the 3-row BEVs as a major product reveal. Lately, it’s like all the air has gone out of the room….

Much of the blame for perceive or real inefficiency with the current Lighting stems from Bill Ford insisting that Jim Hackett find a way to bring a BEV F150 to market ASAP, so much of what we see is a result of top down pressure ripping $11 billion in funding from then (2018) existing ICE platforms to make his BEV dreams come true. Just stop and think about the hubris of Ford Motor thinking that it can catch up to Tesla by spending oceans of company money without the correct starting point. The reason that things like Lightning are inefficient are because Ford tries to reuse so much of its existing parts and supply chain, at the time, I’m sure that the mindset still saw BEV as a powertrain and gas tank change…….Seriously, I think Ford has to own its mistakes and learn from them and not just blame bad timing or external source or Tesla will keep running away with BEV sales growth.