akirby

Should we just have a PM conversation? :)

Absolutely. We all rationalize our decisions to a certain extent even if it's subconsciously. The other distinction is between problems likely to reoccur down the road versus one time problems usually due to engineering problems, bad batches of parts or assembly line issues. Take my Fusion - I had to take it back to have a missing trim piece added around the inside rear view mirror and the fuel sending unit and fuel tank replaced due to defective parts. There were similar problems with the Focus launch due to tranny issues and the Escape with engine fires and other issues. But none of those problems seem to be occurring now nor would they be reasonably expected to reoccur - they were one time problems due to a new vehicle design in a new plant with new suppliers. That's a lot different than parts wearing out prematurely or having multiple things go wrong several years into ownership and requiring expensive repairs. But there is no way with the survey to account for those differences.

In retrospect that might have been better, although sales haven't really seemed to suffer through all of the MFT woes. I'm sure that Ford was told (and believed) that the problems could be fixed and the system stabilized within a month or two. And gosh knows they tried - releasing new software about once every 2 months for the next year plus.

"Hey - let's go look at the new Impala. I hear it's really nice!" "Are you kidding - I had one of those POS rentals last week. No way I'd consider buying one."

Why would they allow "outside experts"? The survey is designed for owners to report problems they've had with vehicles they own. Is there any verification that the subscriber actually owns that specific vehicle? Probably not, but you'd have to out of your way to provide false ratings on vehicles you didn't own and the vast majority of subscribers simply wouldn't do that. I got a survey years ago but I don't remember the details. But it's not like an individual could submit dozens of bad survey results just to disparage a brand. I'm not defending CR in general, but I don't think the survey results are really prone to being spammed. Although I do think they can be misleading.

I would suggest that they stop selling fleet queens altogether! But if you're going to do it then it would make more sense to use a different name to avoid confusion and to separate the sales data.

You're showing your ignorance again. MFT problems were not due to lack of testing. Quite the opposite - at one time there were 1500 bugs identified. The code was so buggy that the vendor couldn't fix it in time and there was no backup plan for the 2011 Edge. Ford is responsible for choosing the wrong vendor and for not having a good backup plan when MFT wasn't ready. This forced them to release buggy code and it took a long time to stabilize it. It's been relatively stable since early 2012 and my 2013 Fusion has been rock solid for 8 months with no lockups or freezes or reboots. Only complaint is a lag between voice commands to play a song or playlist and starting to play (about 10 seconds). This is not kool-aid - these are facts about what happened and why. Anybody can lean basic operation of the climate control, radio, navigation and phone in 5 minutes. It's not nearly as diffiicult as some people want you to believe.

But they didn't use the same name even though they could have. And the F150 was due mostly to production capacity and factory changeover time, not because they were selling the old one to rental fleets. So I would counter that Ford hasn't really done what GM is doing with the Impala.

Sold 2 different vehicles under the same name? I remember them doing it around 2004 with the F150 where they sold the "classic" version alongside the new one for 1 year. Were there others?

The old 5.0 was 4,942 cc (4.0 in x 3.0 in) which rounds down to 4.9L while the new one is 4,951 cc (3.629 in x 3.649 in) which rounds up to 5.0L.

Exactly. Even today it's not plug-n-play, even for cell phones. And designing a system for a vehicle that has a potential lifespan of decades is a lot different than a cell phone designed to be replaced every 2-3 years.

The old 5.0L was actually a 4.9L if you rounded correctly. This is why Car and Driver used to refer to it as a 4.9L - just to piss off mustang fans. But I believe the new 5.0L actually rounds to 5.0L now - probably done just to avoid that issue.

To be fair - the Five Hundred came out while the Taurus was still being manufactured so it would have difficult to call them both Taurus. Although I'm sure if it was GM they would have found a way.

I'm hoping the 2nd gen EB engines are less sensitive to throttle input and driving style than the 1st gen and will deliver average mpg in the real world closer to EPA estimates.

I believe the subscriber surveys only apply to vehicles you actually own because they're asking about specific problems the owner has had. So they're not asking a Camry owner to rate a Ford. I'm not defending CR - just pointing out an incorrect fact.

Adding reminder to google when I get home tonight...........

Apparently not. The funny part is they came back after a week and wanted to just give it back and get a different one. My salesman said sorry, it doesn't work that way after it's titled but they did bend over backwards to get them into another vehicle. We lost the new vehicle rebate but it was a wash with the bigger discount. The owner's manual was still wrapped in plastic.

I've had both and I HATE the ones where you have to push the stalk forward for brights. My 2000 Lincoln LS used a pull/toggle setup like you describe where you pull to flash and pull further back to toggle the brights off or on. I never had a problem when flashing brights and even if you do then you just pull them again. OTOH - it's awkward to me to push the stalk away from you - it's much more natural to pull it towards you. YMMV. And I love MFT, too.

POTW

True. It is a no-win situation I suppose. It's worked out to my advantage though. When my daughter totaled her 6 month old 2012 Focus we were able to pick up another 2012 with only 100 miles on it because the elderly owners couldn't figure out how to operate MFT so they traded it in. Their loss, our gain.

Good point. How about "so the media can't complain about the idiots getting confused"........

SirMixALot would disagree.......

I have the touch controls and while I don't have a problem with them I don't think they're worth the cost or the bad publicity. Good move. Now if they'll just make a dumbed down UI option for MFT so it boots into the Entertainment screen with buttons for Navigation, Climate and Phone so idiots don't get confused.........

Nothing that I've noticed in 10K miles. Just the normal whining from the passenger seat.

The problem with the XTS and MKS is they're FWD and that presents styling limitations due to front axle position, etc. CTS and ATS don't have the same limitation.