akirby

Electronics don't wear out. They either fail immediately or they work for decades (except parts that move like cd changers). Even so electronics are not likely to cost more than an engine or transmission.

Absolutely shocking!

You take it to the dealer and let them do the update.

The powertrain is covered for 5 yrs/60k miles. If you're financing longer than that then you're probably spending too much.

It's not about the vehicles. It's about overhead and management practices and profit margins. You still don't understand how a company could be #1 in sales and go out of business do you?

Because all that matters is sales volume.

Also the reason I would have opted for a V6 w/Pony package. The grille looks so much better.

The car itself may eventually have a 25% profit margin but since you can't build a car without (at least) R&D, engineering and admin support it is highly unlikely the company will have a 25% profit margin any time in the near future.

Welcome to free market capitalism. The price of everything is dependent on what people are willing to pay. If you were trying to sell your old vehicle and KBB said it was only worth $10K but everyone else was selling theirs for $15K - would you sell yours for $10K? I think not.

I believe that's also the global employee numbers. Based on what someone (jpd80?) posted in the past the U.S. employees were much closer to half of GMs U.S. employees because we were comparing U.S. sales numbers. If you want to use global employees then we should use global sales. It may not be 2 to 1 but Ford is making more profit on fewer sales with significantly fewer employees than GM. That's why the margins are better.

And everyone probably assumes it was cgi....

You also need to understand that you're not paying for 7 years or 100K miles of coverage either. You're only paying for 4 years/ 64K miles of coverage on the subset of the 500+ covered parts that are not part of the powertrain and you're only paying for 2 years/40K miles of coverage on the powertrain components because the factory warranty is in effect for the first 3/36 and 5/60. Again - just understand exactly what you're buying and the risk. If it still makes you feel better, go for it.

If that makes you feel better then by all means go for it. Having $1135 cash in my pocket that I can use for other things makes me feel better. By not buying any ESPs on my last 4 vehicles (kept between 5 and 7 years each so well past the factory warranty) I've saved $6K. If you throw in my wife's Expedition that was also kept for 6 years it's up to $7500. Even if I had to pay for a $4K repair out of pocket, I'm still $3500 ahead. You can go to Vegas and win big. But if you play consistently you'll lose because the odds are in the house's favor. If you like to gamble go for it.

I think it's more likely they wanted to use the production version. Might as well test that as early as possible also.

GM is in much better shape than it was 4 years ago. No doubt about that. But they aren't in nearly as good shape as they should be or could be. They still have at least 1 totally unnecessary brand (GMC). Their small cars are still being overproduced and pushed out the door with incentives and high risk loans. They have too much overhead because they're still trying to be #1 in sales regardless of profit. Mulally made a mandate that every vehicle they sell is profitable on its own or they won't sell it. They're no longer subsidizing vehicles that lose money (like the old Focus) with cash cows like full sized trucks. If GM is making decent profit margins on their smaller vehicles then that's great. But if you consider their current profit margin is only 8% and you know their cash cows are probably bringing in double digit margins then it's not a leap to assume that their small vehicles, while posting good sales numbers, are either barely turning a profit or individually they are actually losing money. Shift sales to these smaller vehicles and cut sales of their cash cows (full sized trucks) and let's see if they can stay in the black or not. Ford has half the employees of GM and I'm guessing less factories as well. Their plants are operating at 114% of capacity while GM is probably less than 80%. Yet Ford sells almost as many vehicles each month as GM with so much less overhead. And those are fixed costs - they don't go away immediately if you stop producing as many vehicles. Ford is going for higher ATPs with more expensive options and premium vehicles. GM is trying to be everything to everybody with cheap Chevys and expensive Buicks and Caddys. All this combined is why GM's profit margin is so much lower than Ford's right now. And that's why GM is far more susceptible to a market shift or downturn. It has absolutely nothing to do with how many cars they sell - it has to do with how much money they're making and on which vehicles and how much overhead they have.

I agree. I think they need to widen and lengthen the CD4 platform for Taurus/MKS/Explorer/Aviator and replace D3/D4 entirely. It has to be easier and cheaper than a new platform and they can't keep D4 for sedans - it just doesn't work.

I didn't realize Ford was in business to cater to the whims of every person who wants to buy a vehicle regardless of how much it costs or how much profit it makes for the company. It was the right business decision at the time even if it sucks for consumers. But don't blame Ford because the small truck market shrank considerably over the last several years. Blame the consumers who stopped buying them. And don't say it's because they weren't updated - there were plenty of decent choices out there other than the Ranger that buyers could have bought.

That's probably the tipping point for me as well. I love the 19" H spokes. It's not the only reason but if they were available on the hybrid it would make the decision a lot harder (or easier). As it stands right now I'm probably going to order a regular Titanium.

It's a gamble. If you're willing to gamble that you'll need it and you might never see that money again - go for it. Just understand the odds are in Ford's favor and over the long run you'll save money not buying them.

Isn't that obvious?

So, by your logic - if Ford cuts the price of the Fiesta by $5k and sells 200K per year - they'd be winning because they sell more units? Seriously???

Here is the part you don't seem to understand. When your profit margin goes below 0 you are LOSING MONEY. Companies that continue to LOSE MONEY go bankrupt. If Ford's profit margin goes from 12% to 8% where do you think GMs will go if they're already at 8%? 5%? 3%? 1%? GM keeps small car sales volume high with fleet sales, high incentives and by financing sub 500 credit score buyers. And I guarantee that Ford's ATPs are higher because Fords have more options and fewer incentives. GM also has more fixed cost than Ford so lower ATPs hurt their profit margin more than Ford. It cost the same to keep a plant running regardless of whether that plant builds $18K B cars or $50k luxury cars. I bet you think that as long as you have checks in your checkbook you have money to spend.

Are you really that stupid? Do you honestly think that whoever sells the most cars makes the most money? Do you even understand profit margins?

Of course it does Richard. You are so stupid! When you sell a car you get money. If you sell a car for $30K you get $30K in profit. It doesn't cost anything to build a car or do engineering or operate a factory. It's all free! The more cars you sell the more money you make. It's that simple. GM sells more cars therefore GM is better. That bankruptcy thing wasn't their fault, either.

They're not fixing one vehicle - they're fixing thousands. That's why it can take weeks. They're also building new vehicles while they're fixing the old ones and they only have so much capacity in Mexico. I believe Ford instructed dealers to reorder retail vehicles that were affected - check with your dealer.