Bluecon Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 All I said was Chrysler was in better shape than Ford and the 3rd and fourth quarter would prove it.(and they did) http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...PDATE/701250428 > Ford sales and financial results: 1998-2006. > Ford posts worse than expected quarter loss, record '06 loss - CNN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 All I said was Chrysler was in better shape than Ford and the 3rd and fourth quarter would prove it.(and they did) http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...PDATE/701250428 Ford Motor Co. posted a $12.7 billion loss in 2006, the largest annual loss in the automaker's 103-year history. You don't suppose that there really IS something to that AFA boycott and the wrath of God thing...... do you? -Ovaltine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 bad news front in center on msnbc.com and even a blurb on npr this morning. The only good thing about this is "it can't get any worse" Or Can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 For those who didn't read the article, the slightly good side, or rather the slightly less bad side of this news is that almost 10 billion of that is associated with the one time costs of all the buy outs and other restructuring costs, which will hopefully turn out do the company good in the long run. Also, for those keeping score, Ford now has $46B in liquid funds. So they've still got some cash to work with, although its pretty hard to turn your company around when your operations are sucking so much money away from actually being able to develop new products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Ford Motor Co. posted a $12.7 billion loss in 2006, the largest annual loss in the automaker's 103-year history. You don't suppose that there really IS something to that AFA boycott and the wrath of God thing...... do you? -Ovaltine Are you being serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 For those who didn't read the article, the slightly good side, or rather the slightly less bad side of this news is that almost 10 billion of that is associated with the one time costs of all the buy outs and other restructuring costs, which will hopefully turn out do the company good in the long run. Also, for those keeping score, Ford now has $46B in liquid funds. So they've still got some cash to work with, although its pretty hard to turn your company around when your operations are sucking so much money away from actually being able to develop new products. well the whole point of the mortgage was to have enough money to fund the lossy operational side, without having to trim capital investments. Ford will maintain its HUGE product development budget of $7bn, but make the whole system much more efficient, promising to deliver much more or the same money. Ford right now has enough money for the projected losses. They predict to burn through $10 bn this year, and then the rest in 2008 and 2009. 2009 should also have finally a modest profit. Ford is in HUGE trouble, but Mulally got them ready for the hard times ahead, and they are actually in a position to make it through the storm ... if they stay on track with 1) corporate realignment, 2) globalized product development 3) personnell management 4) capacity management and 5) product delivery, they will be out of the woods by 2012 or so ... it is far off, but the plan does give them the light at the end of the tunnel .. they just have to keep up the focus. Igor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaBlue Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Are you being serious? I think there could be a link.... I have sent Bill Ford a letter stating that they need to take a stance and not support the alternative lifestyle. I received a letter back from corporate stating that they will continue to support all diverse lifestyles. I receive e-mails from AFA and have asked them why aren't they targeting other advertisers who sponsor other lifestyles. They claim that Ford had originally withdrew supporting supporting alternative lifestyles, then when they squealed, Ford said OK we'll advertise and support their cause. I was hoping that the new guy Mulally would take a stance because old Billy boy wouldn't, and say let's try it, let's shift our focus to consumers who would really buy our cars and trucks, not a minority. I even saw a hard copy of a letter from Ford dealers in Texas telling Billy Boy to make a change in the company policy concerning alternative lifestyles. It is hurting their business and the customers are letting them know. I have been a Ford man for over 27 years, but the 2 Ford vehicles I currently own will be out last unless Mulally takes a stand. You might think I'm whacked but I think one way to help the turn around means taking a chance....what could it hurt? The Good Lord will reward them if they do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skor Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Let's face it kids, Ford is toast. Prediction: Toyota buys the truck division, and the rest is sold to the Chinese for scrap prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) I think there could be a link.... I have sent Bill Ford a letter stating that they need to take a stance and not support the alternative lifestyle. I received a letter back from corporate stating that they will continue to support all diverse lifestyles. (blah blah blah ...) Personally, if they had caved to the AFA I'd have sold my shares and never bought a Ford again. I think by far more people think it's perfectly fine for gays to be gays -- even if they think homosexuality is wrong -- than there are tightwad arses who want to drown them in the nearest river. And in terms of this thread topic, I think they would have lost far more sales by caving. Edited January 25, 2007 by Noah Harbinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 How often do you pray to your invisable sky god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Let's face it kids, Ford is toast. Prediction: Toyota buys the truck division, and the rest is sold to the Chinese for scrap prices. Fat chance. Ford would disolve its assets and go out of business before selling out to Toyota or the Chinese. You seem to be forgetting about the $46B in liquid assets Ford currently has on hand. No matter how bad things get, they aren't going to burn through that before the end of the decade, when they expect to become profitable again. The VAST majority of the $12.7B in losses were one-time charges. Buyout costs. Plant closing costs. Vehicle discontinuation costs. Restructuring costs. Most of that money won't need to be spent again. And most importantly, as Igor pointed out, Ford will maintain its $7B R&D budget. The future is not being compromised to solve the problems of the past. Edited January 25, 2007 by NickF1011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Ford is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Ford is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic If by "rearranging the chairs" you mean pulling the Titanic into dry dock and making it a much smaller, leaner, and more manageable ship with half the onboard staff, then yes, you're right. That $10 billion in restructuring costs wasn't spent on moving workers from one ailing plant to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skor Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Fat chance. Ford would disolve its assets and go out of business before selling out to Toyota or the Chinese. You seem to be forgetting about the $46B in liquid assets Ford currently has on hand. No matter how bad things get, they aren't going to burn through that before the end of the decade, when they expect to become profitable again. The VAST majority of the $12.7B in losses were one-time charges. Buyout costs. Plant closing costs. Vehicle discontinuation costs. Restructuring costs. Most of that money won't need to be spent again. And most importantly, as Igor pointed out, Ford will maintain its $7B R&D budget. The future is not being compromised to solve the problems of the past. You are assuming that Ford will maintain its current market share, which is not likely. Here is some anecdotal evidence. I live in Northern New Jersey, just out side of NYC. Ford's market share in this area is less than 10% and dropping. The only Fords I see on the road around here are pick-ups, SUVs, taxis and cop cars. I don't know anyone who owns a Ford car. 2 local Ford dealers have gone tits-up last year and a 3rd is going out of business this year. Ford is in an irreversible death spiral. That is the fact. Edited January 25, 2007 by skor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGallun Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 yep, everyone sees that 12Billion and instantly think its sales loses... they lost what 2.8b in sales.. thats nothing really... so they expect to burn 10b more this year? wow, all these plant closings and buyouts and so on are crazy! betcha actualy sales of vehicles this year will be pretty even if not better than 06. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theVengineguy Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Some of these comments are worthless. People have trouble seeing what is down the road, new UAW contract. You can't expect to get concessions if you have money in your pocket. Something tells me 2007 will have labor issues, and this is where the government will step in, and uphold auto companies rights to deunionize. GM should of waited on their accounting to take losses, but this move from Ford will give them another bargain chip to the UAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 You are assuming that Ford will maintain its current market share, which is not likely. Here is some anecdotal evidence. I live in Northern New Jersey, just out side of NYC. Ford's market share in this area is less than 10% and dropping. The only Fords I see on the road around here are pick-ups, SUVs, taxis and cop cars. I don't know anyone who owns a Ford car. 2 local Ford dealers have gone tits-up last year and a 3rd is going out of business this year. Ford is in an irreversible death spiral. That is the fact. One thing people forget about market share: You can lose market share and not lose any sales. Ford's sales, overall, really haven't taken a HUGE hit, despite taking a big hit in market share. Do you know why? There's MORE buyers in the market, and there will continue to be more buyers in the market. So while Ford's market share may slowly decline a bit for the next couple of years, the fact is, their sales aren't going to take that much of a hit. As long as their sales remain somewhat steady, they shouldn't have much problem establishing a solid manufacturing/supply model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 This is not good - just about every forum I'm on is posting this. Perception problems anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Ford Motor Co. posted a $12.7 billion loss in 2006, the largest annual loss in the automaker's 103-year history. You don't suppose that there really IS something to that AFA boycott and the wrath of God thing...... do you? -Ovaltine Are you being serious? Not really, but you have to admit that the timing does lend itself to speculation if you hail from the Judeo-Christian world. The formula is pretty well laid out in the Bible. "Do or condone things offensive to the Lord, and bad things (traditionally) are usually done to, or allowed to happen, to the offender." Again.... I'm not saying that's what's happening. But it makes for interesting debate. B) -Ovaltine Edited January 25, 2007 by Ovaltine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I have been a Ford man for over 27 years, but the 2 Ford vehicles I currently own will be out last unless Mulally takes a stand. You might think I'm whacked but I think one way to help the turn around means taking a chance....what could it hurt? The Good Lord will reward them if they do....I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzler Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Not really, but you have to admit that the timing does lend itself to speculation if you hail from the Judeo-Christian world. The formula is pretty well laid out in the Bible. "Do or condone things offensive to the Lord, and bad things (traditionally) are usually done to, or allowed to happen, to the offender." Again.... I'm not saying that's what's happening. But it makes for interesting debate. B) -Ovaltine It's been a while, but I believe that nearby in the same book (ONLY BOOK) of the Bible that seems to be against "alternatives" (when did that become a word?), it is also stated that handling pork or pork-products is unholy and against God's will. So, are these people against the Super Bowl (pigskin)?! The AFA is against highschool football, sausage (yeah, right), pizza... It's all in the same book. Perfect example of selective hypocristy. edit: found some interesting passages from Leviticus 20... And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I [am]the LORD which sanctify you. For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood [shall be] upon him. Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. I hope it's clear that if you hold Leviticus to be the level-straight orders from God, that California kids should be praying a spanking is all they can get, the bible says sassy kids should expect to be put to death for mouthing off to their parents. Interesting that Ford's stock price opened higher this morning... Edited January 25, 2007 by Sizzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasik Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Ford Motor Co: Crappy Earnings, Convoluted Explanation Does Ford purposely use convoluted language to hide what is actually happening with its earnings (losses!)? Here are some excuses: "unfavorable volume and mix" = bad produce mix "non-recurrence of gains" = ?? "non-designated derivatives" = ?? Why shouldn't the bean counters be sent back to remedial English class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 This topic could go way off course with the bible quotes and montanablue.....really are you ready to stop supporting companies like home depot, apple, honda and every other major company that gives equal rights to employees? Please. Ford is being picked on the same way attorneys are throwing law suits at them...they have deep pockets and are an easy target. Ford advertises to a wide range of audience. They support breast cancer awareness.......maybe the christian extermistits have a problem with that.....the word "breast" and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 <a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070125/25135_id.html?.v=1" target="_blank">Ford Motor Co: Crappy Earnings, Convoluted Explanation</a> Does Ford purposely use convoluted language to hide what is actually happening with its earnings (losses!)? Here are some excuses: "unfavorable volume and mix" = bad produce mix "non-recurrence of gains" = ?? "non-designated derivatives" = ?? Why shouldn't the bean counters be sent back to remedial English class? Eh, you find language like that in all financial press releases, good or bad. If you're into market research those phrases make plenty of sense. Earnings statements aren't really designed for the Average Joe. That's why we have magazines like Money and Forbes to sort through all the jargon and tell us what's going on in laymens terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I believe things are getting off-topic. People are entitled to their opinions - let's leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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