Times: Hyundai wants to buy Chrysler

[range]

This would no doubt create the world's largest supplier to Thrifty, Alamo, Enterprise, Budget, et al

 

LINK

 

 

THAT THANG GOTTA HEMI?

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2007 by range

[Ovaltine]

This would no doubt create the world's largest supplier to Thrifty, Alamo, Enterprise, Budget, et al

 

LINK

THAT THANG GOTTA HEMI?

 

Range:

 

You might want to use pictures of current products when attempting to post disparaging commentary about a brand. It at least makes your efforts seem a bit more informed. I know where you're coming from though, using the old pictures, since it's harder to make fun of a company as their new product makes leaps and bounds in quality and design.

 

2007 Hyundai Elantra

 

 

http://www.automotive.com/2007/12/hyundai/...iews/index.html

 

When it comes to new models, most automakers roll them out in a steady, continuous stream: i.e. a new sedan now, a van in two years, a coupe down the line. Hyundai, on the other hand, has chosen to attack by dropping all bombs at once. Three of its four cars - the Accent, Sonata, and Azera - bowed in unison for model year 2006, and one scant year later, this Elantra has trickled out to complete the set.

 

You remember the Elantra, don't you? Maybe you don't, but it's sure been around a while - three generations and 15 years - and has become Hyundai's second-longest running nameplate. It's always just kind of been there, in the background, providing a low-cost alternative to the Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas of the world.

 

But everyone's been insisting that Hyundai isn't just about cost anymore. They may be onto something: the new Elantra is roomier, better styled, better equipped, and its creators hold the result in enough esteem to deem the Elantra "a class above the competition." Hyundai attacking from above instead of below? How times change.

 

 

In my opinion, Ford and GM better be careful what they wish for. A conglomerate made up of Hyundai/KIA and Chrysler might be Ford and GM's worst domestic nightmare. Think of the dealer network and factories Hyundai would gain access to with a deal like this. Hyundai's interest in Chrysler makes total sense, seeing their heavy involvement in the Global Engine Alliance in Dundee, and the Hyundai-Mobis subsidiary already building Wrangler rolling chassis on-site in Toledo.

 

Things are going to start getting interesting around here!

 

-Ovaltine

Edited February 18, 2007 by Ovaltine

[range]

What, you mean the 07 Hyundai Elantra has a Hemi in it? Wow, thats news to me.

 

I guess I've been so distracted by the Hyundai CEO going to jail that I missed the whole Hemi-in-the-Elantra thing. Glad you brought me up to speed.

 

Oh, but too bad sales for the new Elantra are down 18%.

 

I wonder if its the rental car image of Hyundai, the poor reliability statistics, the dead-fish styling, or maybe it's the whole "I can't afford a Toyota because my credit is bad so I settled for a cheap knock-off from a third world company whose CEO is in jail" image.

 

Anyway, I'm sure the rental car companies hope Hyundai does buy Chrysler. That would mean they could do all their rental car purchases in an easier, one-stop shopping experience.

 

[DCK]

This plae is becoming a joke and its trolls like range who are doing it.

[retro-man]

No, no, it's always been like this. In fact, it used to be worse. Ovaltine bought a Kia (Optima I think), and seems to thrive on the abuse that brings down on him around here, while poor Range can barely keep his knee-jerk "anti-furriner" jingoism under control. It's ok - gives the place color.

 

Oh, BTW, I think Hyundai's acquisition of Chrysler makes more sense than any other scenario I can think of. It would give them Jeep, trucks, and some old Brian Nesbitt designs (PT Cruiser) that they might be able to do something with, and maybe some licensing access to Mercedes technology for their high end models - whether they decide to go American gangsta (300) or Uber-Korean (stretched, lowered, V-12 powered RWD Azera anyone?) with the design direction.

Edited February 18, 2007 by retro-man

[range]

This plae is becoming a joke and its trolls like range who are doing it.

 

I would beg to differ.

 

Posting a Times of London article on the possible sale of the Chrysler brand to Hyundai is more than legitamate. You may be alarmed at the prospect, but that's your problem, not the Times of London or mine.

 

As for my commentary on the subject, and my astute observation that both Chrysler and Hyundai and rental fleet queens, oh well. If you don't like opinions different than yours, perhaps you should not read them.

 

Oh, and based on your post from yesterday, I think you may want to reconsider your comments about out doing the Koreans by making "cheap shitty cars". That could be considered troll-like and anti-ferrner behavior.

 

 

DCK Posted on: Yesterday, 07:59 PM

I thought they weren't going to try to "out do the Koreans" with cheap shitty cars like they planned to do with the cancelled a "ecosport"

Edited February 18, 2007 by range

[DCK]

I would beg to differ.

 

Posting a Times of London article on the possible sale of the Chrysler brand to Hyundai is more than legitamate. You may be alarmed at the prospect, but that's your problem, not the Times of London or mine.

 

As for my commentary on the subject, and my astute observation that both Chrysler and Hyundai and rental fleet queens, oh well. If you don't like opinions different than yours, perhaps you should not read them.

 

Oh, and based on your post from yesterday, I think you may want to reconsider your comments about out doing the Koreans by making "cheap shitty cars". That could be considered troll-like and anti-ferrner behavior.

DCK Posted on: Yesterday, 07:59 PM

I thought they weren't going to try to "out do the Koreans" with cheap shitty cars like they planned to do with the cancelled a "ecosport"

Please save your BS for someone that will fall for it, it is not your commentary on this subject it is your trolling on every subject about everyother manufacturer. You're a pathetic joke. Why would you even act the way you do and then try to post a serious post? Anyone with a braincell wouldn't take anything you say seriously judging by your previous posts.

 

Now you want to analyze my post? My post came directly from Ford, Last year when the truth about the Ecosport being canclled came to light a ford exec said that "we were trying to outdo the koreans with cheap cars" I added in shitty because with that comment it was garunteed the ecosport would of been a shitty car just like the shitty aveo which by the way is from korea. Truth.

 

The big difference is you post stupid commentary bashing everything non Ford with narrow vision all the time and it is pathetic to say the least. I mean really you probably wet your pants with happiness that I even posted cheap shitty and korean in the same sentence.

 

Do the forum a favor and grow up, are you 13?

Edited February 18, 2007 by DCK

[range]

"I added in shitty because with that comment it was garunteed the ecosport would of been a shitty car just like the shitty aveo which by the way is from korea. Truth"

 

I rest my case. :D

[Ovaltine]

What, you mean the 07 Hyundai Elantra has a Hemi in it? Wow, thats news to me.

 

I guess I've been so distracted by the Hyundai CEO going to jail that I missed the whole Hemi-in-the-Elantra thing. Glad you brought me up to speed.

 

I was ignoring your HEMI joke the whole time, for the sophomoric attempt at humor that it was. I was pointing out the fact that you used a previous (and less attractive/advanced) model to try to make your point.

 

 

Oh, but too bad sales for the new Elantra are down 18%.

 

I wonder if its the rental car image of Hyundai, the poor reliability statistics, the dead-fish styling, or maybe it's the whole "I can't afford a Toyota because my credit is bad so I settled for a cheap knock-off from a third world company whose CEO is in jail" image.

 

My opinion on a few things here:

 

1. The CEO thing will fade to the background quickly. This guy got caught doing business-as-usual, the Asian way, and now those companies know there's a new sheriff in town. I suspect that there will be very little of it reported in the future. And while you're at it, do a little reading about that CEO. He's basically responsible for the turn around of both Hyundai and now KIA into a growing global conglomerate. Here's a brief synopsis of what he did:

 

"The intrigues are complicated, but the narrative goes like this: After wresting control of the company from his cousin in 1999, Chung — son of founder Chung Ju-yung — vowed to make Hyundai (with its subsidiary Kia) one of the top five automakers in the world by 2010. No small hubris, that.

 

His weapon of choice: quality. Taking a wrecking ball to long-established hierarchies and departmental fiefdoms, Chung forced designers, engineers, accountants and production staff to work together to correct quality problems before they happened. A fanatical micromanager, Chung oversaw the smallest details of product development and was known to go wild-weasel on executives who displeased him.

 

Meanwhile, Chung ordered billions spent on research and development and placed new operations around the world like so many pieces on a global-domination game board — including a $60-million test facility in the Mojave Desert and a $1.2-billion factory in Alabama."

 

"Whatever malfeasance he committed, Chung told the judge at a hearing June 1, he did because he was obsessed with building his company into something great. He might have cut ethical corners, in other words, but only to take the long way 'round toward quality.

 

As a mea culpa in the car business, that gains my sympathy. One of the ironies of Chung's being busted is that Hyundai's success, the industrial pride of South Korea, might not have been possible without the creative efficiencies of the chaebol system, which refers to the interlocking family-business oligarchies. The Korean government has good reason to want to take down the chaebol oligarchs but doesn't want to throw a wrench in the Korean economy."

 

So, shame on him for doing some shady business..... but from this and other things I've read, it was aimed at helping his company. Just imagine what could have been at Ford, starting about 5 years ago, if Junior had come into the Glass House swinging the same kind of quality and cut-the-fat hammer?

 

Would you be more supportive of Chung if he was cut from the same cloth as the American auto-scum leaders like Nasser and Eaton, who did nothing but nearly destroy Ford, and sell out Chrysler?

 

 

2. Regarding Hyundai and KIA sales.... well time will tell there. It's apparent that they have to get a handle on their labor issues, otherwise their available product and potentially quality will suffer. This one's a question mark. It sounds like there's a little pressure from globalization also weighing on the Korean economy. Monetary-related currency valuation issues are also looming. Thus H/K are planning on building vehicles in their non-Korean markets.

 

Anyone who drives an H/K product and still thinks that they're "third world" and unreliable is talking out of their a-s. I'm sorry, but all your wishful thinking isn't going to make the Asians go away. Clicking your heels and ruby slippers only work in the movies. Sorry Dorothy. B)

 

 

3. For the record, the one foreign built car I own is a 2004.5 KIA Spectra. It now has 31k flawless miles on it and is going strong. Runs like a top, and is rattle/squeak free. And as far as Chrysler "sh-tty' quality goes, my 2006 Town and Country has nearly 14k on it, with not one reported problem or recall.

 

-Ovaltine

Edited February 19, 2007 by Ovaltine

[J-150]

.

 

 

Hyundai stated a couple of years ago that they wanted 3 things:

 

full size pickup

full size rwd car

V8 engine

 

The cost of buying Chrysler is much cheaper than the development cost for Hyundai to develop the above 3 items.

[range]

I was ignoring your HEMI joke the whole time, for the sophomoric attempt at humor that it was. I was pointing out the fact that you used a previous (and less attractive/advanced) model to try to make your point.

My opinion on a few things here:

 

1. The CEO thing will fade to the background quickly. This guy got caught doing business-as-usual, the Asian way, and now those companies know there's a new sheriff in town. I suspect that there will be very little of it reported in the future. And while you're at it, do a little reading about that CEO. He's basically responsible for the turn around of both Hyundai and now KIA into a growing global conglomerate. Here's a brief synopsis of what he did:

 

"The intrigues are complicated, but the narrative goes like this: After wresting control of the company from his cousin in 1999, Chung — son of founder Chung Ju-yung — vowed to make Hyundai (with its subsidiary Kia) one of the top five automakers in the world by 2010. No small hubris, that.

 

His weapon of choice: quality. Taking a wrecking ball to long-established hierarchies and departmental fiefdoms, Chung forced designers, engineers, accountants and production staff to work together to correct quality problems before they happened. A fanatical micromanager, Chung oversaw the smallest details of product development and was known to go wild-weasel on executives who displeased him.

 

Meanwhile, Chung ordered billions spent on research and development and placed new operations around the world like so many pieces on a global-domination game board — including a $60-million test facility in the Mojave Desert and a $1.2-billion factory in Alabama."

 

"Whatever malfeasance he committed, Chung told the judge at a hearing June 1, he did because he was obsessed with building his company into something great. He might have cut ethical corners, in other words, but only to take the long way 'round toward quality.

 

As a mea culpa in the car business, that gains my sympathy. One of the ironies of Chung's being busted is that Hyundai's success, the industrial pride of South Korea, might not have been possible without the creative efficiencies of the chaebol system, which refers to the interlocking family-business oligarchies. The Korean government has good reason to want to take down the chaebol oligarchs but doesn't want to throw a wrench in the Korean economy."

 

So, shame on him for doing some shady business..... but from this and other things I've read, it was aimed at helping his company. Just imagine what could have been at Ford, starting about 5 years ago, if Junior had come into the Glass House swinging the same kind of quality and cut-the-fat hammer?

 

Would you be more supportive of Chung if he was cut from the same cloth as the American auto-scum leaders like Nasser and Eaton, who did nothing but nearly destroy Ford, and sell out Chrysler?

2. Regarding Hyundai and KIA sales.... well time will tell there. It's apparent that they have to get a handle on their labor issues, otherwise their available product and potentially quality will suffer. This one's a question mark. It sounds like there's a little pressure from globalization also weighing on the Korean economy. Monetary-related currency valuation issues are also looming. Thus H/K are planning on building vehicles in their non-Korean markets.

 

Anyone who drives an H/K product and still thinks that they're "third world" and unreliable is talking out of their a-s. I'm sorry, but all your wishful thinking isn't going to make the Asians go away. Clicking your heels and ruby slippers only work in the movies. Sorry Dorothy. B)

3. For the record, the one foreign built car I own is a 2004.5 KIA Spectra. It now has 31k flawless miles on it and is going strong. Runs like a top, and is rattle/squeak free. And as far as Chrysler "sh-tty' quality goes, my 2006 Town and Country has nearly 14k on it, with not one reported problem or recall.

 

-Ovaltine

 

The "sh-tty" comment was from the DCK, not me, and was directed at Korean products in general, not Chrysler.

 

He probably has a point though, even JDPower lists Kia 3rd from the bottom in reliability/durability. Hyundai and Kia have built a reputation as cheap transportation for people with no or poor credit who want something other than a used car but can't afford a Toyota/Honda. I don't know of anyone who aspires to own a Hyundai product.

[marc-o]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Range has always been able to start debates (and keep them alive) using his own kind of unique, inbred logic.

 

Spare yourselves the time guys, seriously. A pro-Ford troll is still a troll.

[Mark B. Morrow]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Range has always been able to start debates (and keep them alive) using his own kind of unique, inbred logic.

 

Spare yourselves the time guys, seriously. A pro-Ford troll is still a troll.

 

 

Can you be a Pro-Ford Troll on a Ford enthusiast site?

[Ovaltine]

The newer model isn't any more attractive than the previous one. It's just a different form of ugly.

 

Although the old saying states that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, to your comment above I say: Complete B.S.

 

Your partisanship is showing when you make statements like that.

 

And lemme guess..... I'll bet you just LOVE the stylish new 2008 Focus, now don'tcha? Don'tcha?

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited February 19, 2007 by Ovaltine

[DCK]

The "sh-tty" comment was from the DCK, not me, and was directed at Korean products in general, not Chrysler.

 

He probably has a point though, even JDPower lists Kia 3rd from the bottom in reliability/durability. Hyundai and Kia have built a reputation as cheap transportation for people with no or poor credit who want something other than a used car but can't afford a Toyota/Honda. I don't know of anyone who aspires to own a Hyundai product.

Way to take my post and twist it to meet your trolling ways. Simply shut up and don't put words in my mind. Shitt was refering to what the Ecosport would have become and the aveo. There are many good Korean vehicles like their HK minivans, midsize sedans, large sedans(azera) and they are also competitive in small cars.

[Ovaltine]

The "sh-tty" comment was from the DCK, not me, and was directed at Korean products in general, not Chrysler.

 

He probably has a point though, even JDPower lists Kia 3rd from the bottom in reliability/durability. Hyundai and Kia have built a reputation as cheap transportation for people with no or poor credit who want something other than a used car but can't afford a Toyota/Honda. I don't know of anyone who aspires to own a Hyundai product.

 

Here's the complete fact tables from J.D. Powers.

 

Note the IQS numbers, keeping in mind that those vehicles will be the VDS study vehicles in 2009.

 

Wanna bet a beer that H/K's VDS numbers start climbing starting about next year (2008)? 2005 was the beginning introduction of many of the current redesigned models that have been garnering superior IQS numbers.

 

The charts also show just how CLOSE all the competition is to each other, especially in IQS.

Congrats to Ford/Lincoln/Mercury for being above average in the VDS (long term) category.

Now if you could just get that Mazda laggard to come around. B)

 

And as for as the "poor credit" statement above, perception lags reality. Myself and the other 2 KIA drivers I know personally all have excellent credit and could afford whatever "traditional" brand car we could want. An executive in my office drives a Sorento, and an retired Ford Livonia plant worker I know just bought a Sorento, and loves it. Go figure, eh?

 

-Ovaltine

 

 

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/rele....asp?ID=2006082

 

J.D. Power IQS 2006

 

Hyundai # 3 out of 37 ( 1 TGW per car)

Ford #15 out of 37 (1.3 TGW per car)

KIA #24 out of 37 (1.4 TGW per car)

 

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/rele....asp?ID=2006133

 

J.D. Power VDS 2006

Ford #12 out of 37 (2.2 TGW per 3 year old car)

Hyundai #23 out out 37 (2.5 TGW per 3 year old car)

KIA #34 out of 37 (3.1 TGW per 3 year old car)

Edited February 19, 2007 by Ovaltine

[retro-man]

And lemme guess..... I'll bet you just LOVE the stylish new 2008 Focus, now don'tcha? Don'tcha?

-Ovaltine

Ooh, I think you got him on that one.

Edited February 19, 2007 by retro-man

[RichardJensen]

Okay. For the purposes of this debate everyone that has contributed thus far is a troll of some sort, according to the standards of some other party on the board. Since none of you are the definitive authority on what constitutes a troll, I submit that each one of you is equally a troll, and you may get back to debating the credibility of a British report on the purchase by a Korean business of certain American interests from a German conglomerate.

 

Although it does seem like something that Hyundai would want.

[Roadrunner]

Oh, BTW, I think Hyundai's acquisition of Chrysler makes more sense than any other scenario I can think of. It would give them Jeep, trucks, and some old Brian Nesbitt designs (PT Cruiser) that they might be able to do something with, and maybe some licensing access to Mercedes technology for their high end models - whether they decide to go American gangsta (300) or Uber-Korean (stretched, lowered, V-12 powered RWD Azera anyone?) with the design direction.

 

I agree - and with Hyundai interested in moving up in the automotive food chain, getting the truck technology of Jeep and Dodge will be useful.

 

Although, will buyers reject a Korean company buying a dominantly American-market brand? (Chrysler has the unique thing of being not as international as GM or Ford)

[mettech]

This buy would hurt GM and Ford in 6 years more than Toyota does now. I would expect that GM would close Buick, Hummer and Pontiac within 8 years and Ford would........ keep the truck line open in Mazda and Volvo dealerships along with a few Ford Truck dealerships.

 

Korea car makers are holding a line on production and repair cost. The labor force and company both want to be the #1 import seller in the U.S. within 10 years.

 

Laugh now because if this deal goes through....... and the UAW thinks they have it rough now?........It’s just starting…

[ehaase]

The Detroit Free Press has already denied this rumor. Hyundai's not interested in Chrysler.

 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...1/70219001/1014

[NickF1011]

you may get back to debating the credibility of a British report on the purchase by a Korean business of certain American interests from a German conglomerate.

 

Ain't global economics a hoot?

[Ovaltine]

The Detroit Free Press has already denied this rumor. Hyundai's not interested in Chrysler.

 

Isn't that what sports figures say, just before they announce officially that they ARE going to a certain team?

 

I will say however, that's in line with this article in today's DetNews:

 

GM, DCX talks serious

Nation's top automaker could absorb Chrysler

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...UTO01/702190365

 

 

And here's the GM-Chrysler nightmare scenario (from a Michigan perspective):

 

Daniel Howes: GM-Chrysler deal would be frightful

A tie-up between the two longtime rivals would be a tough pill for Metro Detroit.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...UTO02/702190345

 

 

Additional details about Hyundai's denial here:

 

Hyundai denies report that it is interested in buying Chrysler

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...UTO01/702190376

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited February 19, 2007 by Ovaltine

[range]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Range has always been able to start debates (and keep them alive) using his own kind of unique, inbred logic.

 

Spare yourselves the time guys, seriously. A pro-Ford troll is still a troll.

 

 

Now, now marc-o......no need to get all worked up and personal and all.

 

Your contribution to debate is the standard, overused, empty personal attack. B-O-R-I-N-G :boring:

 

Based on the interest generated by the Times of London article on the Hyundai rumors, I think the thread is a worthy topic, no matter what you say.

 

If you don't care for my perspective on the subject, please feel free to skip over them.

Edited February 19, 2007 by range

[630land]

If GM buys Mopar say 'bye bye' to the Chrysler and Dodge names. Jeep is the crown jewel.

 

And they will kill the Challenger, Sebring/Avenger, and Durango/Aspen.

 

What is funny is some on here thought the Aspen would be a 'big hit', but the plant that makes them is going to close. And now Mo-dog wants to buy Chevy Tahoes to re-badge. So much for that 'hit'!