OHAP COA

[Spring]

I understand that the Bargaining Structure has concluded negotiations and is ready to bring the new COA to the membership for ratification. There will supposedly be a meeting this Sunday. I wonder what the attendance will be like since we are working this Saturday. I also wonder what side letters there are and if we will be given a complete write up of the agreement. Regardless, I am interested in seeing what the agreement is like.

[Spring]

One of the stock drivers here in Trim said he was talking to Fred Pena, B.C. (Trim) and we were losing 23 people out of stock. Couple that with shift preference going on right now and things should real cheery!

 

Did DTP have the particulars of their agreement prior to voting on it?

[daytrader millionaire]

You can just approve it or they will just close your plant down and take you to a plant thats allready approved it.Its that easy!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spring]

You can just approve it or they will just close your plant down and take you to a plant thats allready approved it.Its that easy!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Do you really think so? Isn't it easier for the International to just set aside whatever agreement we have locally and put what THEY want in its place? They've done it before so I'm sure they have no compunction about doing it again. If the sword is hanging over the heads of every plant negotiating a COA, then what is the point of even negotiating? What is the point of even having a union if it is dictated to by the company? If they are bringing it to us for a vote then we should have ALL the information so that we may make informed decisions. If coercion is the case, why bother going through the motions? Do you know something the rest of us don't? Would you care to share?

[fatfender]

Something to keep in mind about this, outsourcing, you are right. This is only the begining. Now it's stock, cleaners, skilled trades, etc. I've seen different posts in the past about this and alot of them were 'so what those guys don't do anything anyway'. It will spread from there though. Next you'll see them wanting to outsource the motor line or the IP line, tire/wheel line or who knows what. Before the consolidation, when it was first announced, those areas were slated to be done off in a warehouse somewhere. Supposedly the union kept in in house. These guys want to operate like the Japs. In print they acknowledge they admire the Jap system. Quess what? That's how they do it. We need to tread very carefully here. I don't see anything positive happening out of this. Other plants voted for it and they still lost out.

[Spring]

I think that a certain BC in Trim is hoping that with all of the excitement over the COA his hog cutting will go unnoticed. Unfortunately for him, these hogs are screaming loudly! Group 3s on days should pay particularly close attention to a move that should probably take place over the next couple of weeks. Our BC will be bringing a group 2 from nights and try to slip him unnoticed as a group 3 on bid 1754. This bid was already filled (group 3 on days). The current bid 1775 does not have this person listed on it. Group 3s on days in Trim should pay close attention as one of them may be bumped to accommodate this person.

 

As far as these moves go, I would freeze everything until after the vote. We have shift preference going on right now and then April 1st we will have another exodus of people leaving. Once the details of the new agreement are made public and ratified (is there really any doubt?!) it may prove to be the catalyst that makes or breaks the decision for some people. They should hold off on making any of these moves until these people are released so that there will be less churning. I'm hearing that job bids will become plant wide and shift preference will be twice per year rather than quarterly. Of course, we are not getting a lot of information from our BC. Makes me wonder what he doesn't want us to know until it's too late!

 

Sooo many question! Next week our delegates are going to the special convention for the National Agreement. Now we just went through negotiations for this COA. Is this our actual new local agreement? Or is it an amendment to the agreement? Will we have to go through all of this again this fall? Sooo many questions and yet so few answers.....

[shadowcat]

I would be one pissed off MF if they froze shift bump I have more than enough time to be on day's and I'm not going to let something like people leaving and the churning it causes stop me from going.

 

As far as the COA goes I'll vote against it like I do every contract.

[Spring]

I would be one pissed off MF if they froze shift bump I have more than enough time to be on day's and I'm not going to let something like people leaving and the churning it causes stop me from going.

 

As far as the COA goes I'll vote against it like I do every contract.

 

 

Shadowcat, I'm only looking at what is going to be the best thing (IMHO) for the stability of the plant. Regardless of everything that is going on, we are still obligated to produce these vans and we have to cognizant of the need to maintain a certain quality level in the build of the vehicle. The whole situation is a mess. I don't know how I'll vote. If it is a bad contract or addendum or whatever it is, then I'll vote against it. If it is something I can live with then I may support it. Don't know until I have all the facts and details.

[Spring]

I understand that the reason no information has been given to the membership is that the Bargaining Structure is waiting on a letter from up North (J. Heinrichs's or above) guaranteeing work here at OHAP in exchange for a COA. A letter like that is meaningless and is only (again, in my opinion) a smoke screen for the realities of this COA. I believe that the union is hoping to distract the membership's attention from what the company is going to try to implement in name of being "globally competitive" with a letter that will not be worth the paper it is written on. There is no way the company can be held to a commitment for work. We don't know what the economic conditions will be over the course of the next several years. Look at what has happened when they have had to give commitments to the state in exchange for tax abatements! They can't even stick to those commitments! Does anyone really think they'll stick by what they promise the union? If that were the case, we'd never have to write grievances! It is the company's nature to lie! I think that the union does not want to give us this information in a timely manner because they don't want us to be able to go over it thoroughly and ask them questions they cannot answer!

[whereswaldo]

union does not want to give us this information in a timely manner because they don't want us to be able to go over it thoroughly and ask them questions they cannot answer!

 

BINGO !! Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner !! Why else do none of these other COA votes have more info ??

[Spring]

The local newspaper (Sun News) has reported per Union officials not to be named that Ford has not and WILL NOT be giving any new work to the Brookpark site. It is their estimation that the site will be on the list for closure in the near future. Not even tax incentives will be enough to keep the site open. Market share does not allow for 2 engine plants and Lima to manufacture the same engine. LIma will be getting new work.

 

 

I wonder if they got a letter or were told that they would be guaranteed work if they voted for a COA?!

[truthplease]

I think that a certain BC in Trim is hoping that with all of the excitement over the COA his hog cutting will go unnoticed. Unfortunately for him, these hogs are screaming loudly! Group 3s on days should pay particularly close attention to a move that should probably take place over the next couple of weeks. Our BC will be bringing a group 2 from nights and try to slip him unnoticed as a group 3 on bid 1754. This bid was already filled (group 3 on days). The current bid 1775 does not have this person listed on it. Group 3s on days in Trim should pay close attention as one of them may be bumped to accommodate this person.

 

As far as these moves go, I would freeze everything until after the vote. We have shift preference going on right now and then April 1st we will have another exodus of people leaving. Once the details of the new agreement are made public and ratified (is there really any doubt?!) it may prove to be the catalyst that makes or breaks the decision for some people. They should hold off on making any of these moves until these people are released so that there will be less churning. I'm hearing that job bids will become plant wide and shift preference will be twice per year rather than quarterly. Of course, we are not getting a lot of information from our BC. Makes me wonder what he doesn't want us to know until it's too late!

 

Sooo many question! Next week our delegates are going to the special convention for the National Agreement. Now we just went through negotiations for this COA. Is this our actual new local agreement? Or is it an amendment to the agreement? Will we have to go through all of this again this fall? Sooo many questions and yet so few answers.....

 

You really need to put a sock in this crap everyone in the union cut hoggs including you when you were in office. If you and your people would get together with Fred and his people there is nothing that could not be accomplished at this plant You always talk abut working together how about really trying to do it for a change

[Spring]

You really need to put a sock in this crap everyone in the union cut hoggs including you when you were in office. If you and your people would get together with Fred and his people there is nothing that could not be accomplished at this plant You always talk abut working together how about really trying to do it for a change

 

 

Name the hog that I cut. You can't do it because it never happened. I am trying to get as much information as possible out to this membership which is way more than Fred is doing. I believe that the membership should have this information prior to anything coming to a vote. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that. I've seen what Fred considers "working together". It means that we are supposed to ignore it when he violates seniority and other contractual issues. My stand has always been for the truth. I guess some people just can't handle the truth, though.

[slapshot2]

Name the hog that I cut. You can't do it because it never happened. I am trying to get as much information as possible out to this membership which is way more than Fred is doing. I believe that the membership should have this information prior to anything coming to a vote. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that. I've seen what Fred considers "working together". It means that we are supposed to ignore it when he violates seniority and other contractual issues. My stand has always been for the truth. I guess some people just can't handle the truth, though.

Mary, I know you mean well, but right now Fred Pena cutting deals on the floor should be the least of anyones concerns. The livlihood issues that our plant and this company are facing at present are real ones, and should be given serious consideration. You seem to be pretty negative about this new agreement, but come on, there is no choice and you know it. No, the company is not going to tell anyone that they will close their plant if they refuse this ammended agreement, but at the end of the day, if we don't meet performance objectives that's what is going to happen. It doesn't matter who is in office. You simply can not negotiate a very favorable agreement with a comapny that has lost 12 billion dollars and will lose more in the very near future. There is no bluff to be called. I realize how upset all of this change makes everybody, myself included, but at the end of the day there is nothing to be had. The company is taking back control of it's busines and there is nothing we can do about it except try to keep our jobs. If this keeps getting worse, anything becomes possible and there is nothing that they could not ultimately take away from their employees. Company's do not have to transfer employees, they do not have to give them health care, they do not have to provide them pensions, they do not have to do anything really other than meet their tax obligations and follow established laws and regulations. What do we have to bargain against them with, either at the local or national levels anymore? Strike? They would reduce inventories while saving a ton of expenses, and quite possibly in todays world even terminate the employees. Ford has little to lose at this point and when it's all said and done, they are not going to allow the union to be the deciding factor of driving them to bankruptcy. As hard a pill as it is for all of us to swallow, the only true way to help ourselves to have any level of future security to is go along with their efforts to cut costs, no matter how painful that may be. We would be fools to not pass this agreement, you don't need to see it to know that!

[Spring]

Mary, I know you mean well, but right now Fred Pena cutting deals on the floor should be the least of anyones concerns. The livlihood issues that our plant and this company are facing at present are real ones, and should be given serious consideration. You seem to be pretty negative about this new agreement, but come on, there is no choice and you know it. No, the company is not going to tell anyone that they will close their plant if they refuse this ammended agreement, but at the end of the day, if we don't meet performance objectives that's what is going to happen. It doesn't matter who is in office. You simply can not negotiate a very favorable agreement with a comapny that has lost 12 billion dollars and will lose more in the very near future. There is no bluff to be called. I realize how upset all of this change makes everybody, myself included, but at the end of the day there is nothing to be had. The company is taking back control of it's busines and there is nothing we can do about it except try to keep our jobs. If this keeps getting worse, anything becomes possible and there is nothing that they could not ultimately take away from their employees. Company's do not have to transfer employees, they do not have to give them health care, they do not have to provide them pensions, they do not have to do anything really other than meet their tax obligations and follow established laws and regulations. What do we have to bargain against them with, either at the local or national levels anymore? Strike? They would reduce inventories while saving a ton of expenses, and quite possibly in todays world even terminate the employees. Ford has little to lose at this point and when it's all said and done, they are not going to allow the union to be the deciding factor of driving them to bankruptcy. As hard a pill as it is for all of us to swallow, the only true way to help ourselves to have any level of future security to is go along with their efforts to cut costs, no matter how painful that may be. We would be fools to not pass this agreement, you don't need to see it to know that!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Slapshot, isn't it funny that I didn't have to use his name at first? Everyone knew who I was talking about!

 

Just because something is more than likely to be inevitable, does that mean that we shouldn't discuss it? You and I both know that this agreement is going to pass. We may joke about it passing by 51% but I believe it will pass by 78% or so. I don't know how I'm going to vote on it because I don't have enough information to make an educated and informed decision. The fact that so much information is consistently kept from the membership is what I have a problem with. It is as if the union has decided that we aren't deserving of having this information, as if we wouldn't know what to do with it. This blackout of information started when the Klown was chairman and hasn't changed since then. Just because something is going to happen doesn't mean that you shouldn't have all the facts, does it? Some people may be content to allow events to just take place but other people may like to be forewarned. After all, forewarned is forearmed, isn't it?

[thor uaw]

Mary,

 

It's very easy to second guess anybody, but like anything else, you have to be there. We know that Ford is going to be a smaller company. That means not as many plants or employees. Yes, it's very sad, and impacts many families, but this is real life. Instead of you being the one to ask all the time and trying to get the membership all the information, why doesn't the membership as a whole ask for the information. They won't make the effort because they are taken care of always one way or another.

 

The true test is for the membership to do something before the worst happens, not wait until they close the doors. Prepare, don't react. Stop depending on the International to fix the problems, your membership sure do that. And if they don't, then your membership will get what they deserve. Good or Bad.

 

Its time to change, time to move on.

 

No, I do not work at your plant. I work at a plant that is scheduled to close. If I had to do it over again I still would have done the same thing; Bargain for the benefit of the membership and the Company. This is not fun.

[Jasper]

This "agreement" will and should pass.HOWEVER,Ibelieve that this is only laying the ground for the September negotiations.I agree we need to compete.Ithink that the debate will be over the best way to do this.It will be intresting to get the reports back from the contract convention.

[40anout]

Mary, I know you mean well, but right now Fred Pena cutting deals on the floor should be the least of anyones concerns. The livlihood issues that our plant and this company are facing at present are real ones, and should be given serious consideration. You seem to be pretty negative about this new agreement, but come on, there is no choice and you know it. No, the company is not going to tell anyone that they will close their plant if they refuse this ammended agreement, but at the end of the day, if we don't meet performance objectives that's what is going to happen. It doesn't matter who is in office. You simply can not negotiate a very favorable agreement with a comapny that has lost 12 billion dollars and will lose more in the very near future. There is no bluff to be called. I realize how upset all of this change makes everybody, myself included, but at the end of the day there is nothing to be had. The company is taking back control of it's busines and there is nothing we can do about it except try to keep our jobs. If this keeps getting worse, anything becomes possible and there is nothing that they could not ultimately take away from their employees. Company's do not have to transfer employees, they do not have to give them health care, they do not have to provide them pensions, they do not have to do anything really other than meet their tax obligations and follow established laws and regulations. What do we have to bargain against them with, either at the local or national levels anymore? Strike? They would reduce inventories while saving a ton of expenses, and quite possibly in todays world even terminate the employees. Ford has little to lose at this point and when it's all said and done, they are not going to allow the union to be the deciding factor of driving them to bankruptcy. As hard a pill as it is for all of us to swallow, the only true way to help ourselves to have any level of future security to is go along with their efforts to cut costs, no matter how painful that may be. We would be fools to not pass this agreement, you don't need to see it to know that!

I just can't sit back and read this crap without reacting any longer. Shadowcat read what you just posted. If this is the case then why in todays world do we even need the UAW?

You folks say we need to compete. This is Ford running this compete stuff on ya. Who does OHAP need to compete with. The answer no one. Ford is not going to spend perhaps billions of dollars that they do not have to move the Econoline. Wall Street would have em for lunch. Ford Motor Comapny is hell bent on doing it the Japanese way. Plain and simple. Here lays the truth and therefore the so called compete. Ford just needs to look at their management levels as that is the real problem. Ford has 3 managers for the everyone of the Japanese. Its called american corperate greed.

Go ahead vote in your COA you all are right about one thing it will pass away. In 10 years when your all still working the line tired, muscles stiff, missing one or two days a weak of work because of health problems. Then mybe you will release that you made a mistake by giving up the gravy jobs to the COA.

You all are fools for voting for any give backs before a national contract.

 

One more thing Fred Penna sucks. He is a nice guy to your face but the worst B.C. that I had and I have had some bad ones. I can't wait until local elections.

[slapshot2]

I just can't sit back and read this crap without reacting any longer. Shadowcat read what you just posted. If this is the case then why in todays world do we even need the UAW?

You folks say we need to compete. This is Ford running this compete stuff on ya. Who does OHAP need to compete with. The answer no one. Ford is not going to spend perhaps billions of dollars that they do not have to move the Econoline. Wall Street would have em for lunch. Ford Motor Comapny is hell bent on doing it the Japanese way. Plain and simple. Here lays the truth and therefore the so called compete. Ford just needs to look at their management levels as that is the real problem. Ford has 3 managers for the everyone of the Japanese. Its called american corperate greed.

Go ahead vote in your COA you all are right about one thing it will pass away. In 10 years when your all still working the line tired, muscles stiff, missing one or two days a weak of work because of health problems. Then mybe you will release that you made a mistake by giving up the gravy jobs to the COA.

You all are fools for voting for any give backs before a national contract.

 

One more thing Fred Penna sucks. He is a nice guy to your face but the worst B.C. that I had and I have had some bad ones. I can't wait until local elections.

Hogwash. If we make our decisions based on this logic, we're all screwed! Tell me what Wall Street could possible do to penalize this company at this point? Nothing is the answer. I respect your convictions, but it would be assenine to play a game of "I dare you" with this company right now. Not only could they and would they close this plant if the powers that be deemed it necessary, but in the end somebody else would pay for it. You don't get it. What is there to negotiate anymore? A favorable agreement that both sides can use to work together to save this company. That's it. There is no more what have you done for me lately. They can do what they want, and nobody can do very much about it. You can't make financial demands of a company that is essentially "going out of business" anyways. If this union chose to strike, what's to stop the company from relieving all striking employees of their employment? Nothing! It's a sad fact of a tough economic time, but what could we do in this country to stop them? Quit buying their cars? Many have already done that, just read these forums. We can maintain decent health and safety and other decent work standards but the game of gimme, gimme, gimme, is done and over. I hate it as much as the next guy (or girl) but the writing is on the wall. We WILL lose benefits come September regardless of whether we accept a COA now. Only difference is that we may be able to put ourselves in a position to have a stake in the September negotiations. That's the reality of it, like it or not.

[whereswaldo]

it would be assenine to play a game of "I dare you" with this company right now. That's the reality of it, like it or not.

 

 

Whats sad is reading some of these posts. I am not a Soldier of Solidarity. I believe in working together BUT not rolling over. Thats what our Int'l has done and no one plant can stand alone w/o them. Thats the reality like it or not.

[shadowcat]

I just can't sit back and read this crap without reacting any longer. Shadowcat read what you just posted. If this is the case then why in todays world do we even need the UAW?

You folks say we need to compete. This is Ford running this compete stuff on ya. Who does OHAP need to compete with. The answer no one. Ford is not going to spend perhaps billions of dollars that they do not have to move the Econoline. Wall Street would have em for lunch. Ford Motor Comapny is hell bent on doing it the Japanese way. Plain and simple. Here lays the truth and therefore the so called compete. Ford just needs to look at their management levels as that is the real problem. Ford has 3 managers for the everyone of the Japanese. Its called american corperate greed.

Go ahead vote in your COA you all are right about one thing it will pass away. In 10 years when your all still working the line tired, muscles stiff, missing one or two days a weak of work because of health problems. Then mybe you will release that you made a mistake by giving up the gravy jobs to the COA.

You all are fools for voting for any give backs before a national contract.

 

One more thing Fred Penna sucks. He is a nice guy to your face but the worst B.C. that I had and I have had some bad ones. I can't wait until local elections.

 

Simple answer is we don't unless they get back to basics. They haven't done anything for the people in years. They started out with good intent fair wages, good benefits, safe working environment now there purely out for greed how much money can we squeeze from the company's, how little work can we get away with for that huge amount of pay. I have old fashion beliefs like you come to work to actually work not sit on your ass and drink coffee or read a news paper or miss a day of work just because you feel a little sore or because it's nice out side.I feel it's time for the company to get tough again. there are allot of people in our plants that need to be fired and open up spots for people that want to work.

[whereswaldo]

Simple answer is we don't unless they get back to basics. I have old fashion beliefs like you come to work to actually work not sit on your ass and drink coffee or read a news paper or miss a day of work just because you feel a little sore or because it's nice out side.I feel it's time for the company to get tough again. there are allot of people in our plants that need to be fired and open up spots for people that want to work.

 

 

All of these issues could already be resolved through existing language. COA's will now eliminate any decent jobs that arent so physical, by giving them to contractors who likely wont be union (read low wage). Eliminate virtually ALL overtime in B&A plants.Watch to see 4-10's, 3 crew format spread to engine,stamping,transmission plants. Allowing trades contractors to do work irregardless of plants' own workforce bidding and doing the jobs in house. With all of this...there shouldnt be a need for any concessions in Sept.

Someone posted earlier that already w/o any changes at all, Ford has gone from producing 3 mil .vehicles with 75,000 employees to 2.4 mil (20% drop) with 40,000. Just from buuyouts. Now what kind of savings is it in closing NAP and putting 3 crew at DTP. DTP could run trucks 7 days a week yr round. Do some math, the savings is phenominal vs. how they ran b-4. Thats one plant, one product line. Just the change in day to day operations should have the Int'l stepping up and protecting the livelihoods of those that are left .

[econolineman]

You folks say we need to compete.

 

Yes we do, without a doubt. It's not about the van competing against vans. It's the corporation as a whole. You think Japan is going to yield any one market to Ford/GM? No way, they will tap whatever market is there, just give 'em time. They're trying like hell to break into the truck segment now. Full size vans? If it's a money maker, Toyota will eventually give it a try.

 

Ford Motor Comapny is hell bent on doing it the Japanese way. Plain and simple.

 

The Japanese way makes money, and alot of it. I have no fear of doing things differently. Americans build automobiles the "Japanese way" everyday. There's nothing to fear about making some changes. I'm sorry too...I've seen plenty of the ways you and your fellow 40andouts have "worried" about me and my future, I'm fine making decisions that affect me.

 

Abuse of the "gravy" has got them targeted for elimination. It's wasteful to pay an individual a full day for merely a portion of the day spent working. That applies to any business. If you owned a shop you damn sure wouldn't want to pay a guy while he's at home when he should be making you money. Would you?

 

Shadowcat, I completely agree with your last post. We do need to lose the deadbeats and bring in some people that want to work.

[hemmer1]

Just look at us all!Fighting and argueing among ourselves.Yes people in the Jap plants must be having a great laugh at us.I agree that the U.A.W.leadership has failed us.This didn't just happen over the past couple of years,no,it was years in the making.The leadership at the national level failed or refused to look to the future.Negotiating pensions was useless if you failed to make sure that the plants were viable and in a position to earn money to pay the pensions.That is history,now we must deal with the present.Sacrifices were made the last time we kicked the Japs asses. We can do it again.It won't happen overnight but it can happen.To do it we must stop the squabbling ,we must work to-getherand we need to elect to office, people both in the union and in the government who will work for all the people not just their buddies or party.Toyota is in no way shape or form an American company.A leopard never changes its spots.So lets start hitting on the real opposition.Lets start broadcasting about their recalls.Lets try and put some heat on them.

[Spring]

And, if we go back and read the header for this topic, we still don't have any information on this COA! Yet OUR union wants us to vote on it on Sunday. Isn't Democracy wonderful?!