OHAP COA

[xXBucktoothgeekXx]

As few of us have seen the C.O.A.'s from other plants I don't know how we can say how good or how bad they are in contrast to each other. Regarding the politics I agree that it is way to early to be campaigning for office. I am sure that there will be plenty of candidates who will run for the different offices when the time comes.That someone is already campaigning for chairman indicates to me that asizable group of members must be unhappy with the way things are being run.As for keeping the plant open,didn't a previous chairman report that a new bodyshop was in the works.This was before the c.o.a.was settled.Ford makes decisions based upon many factors,not just one small agreement.Haven't we read that some plants that agreed to C.O.A.'s are being closed or downsized.

If you look at the comparison sheet that was handed out with the COA, you can plainly see how our agreement differs from the other plants.( lots more givebacks, ie.. Rouge, KCAP than we did ) The fact that someone is already running for Chairman can also be construed as " they don't know what the fuck they are doing" or " they have a hell of a lot of hot dogs to get rid of". On your last point,...Yes, other plants that approved COA are threatened with closure; they did not get letters of guarantee; they got "consideration" for work. You can try to spin it any way you want, but Nick, did a hell of a job with this agreement. Yes, I said Nick. But who put it in the papers before the membership could be notified? The Donovan s AGAIN. None of them know the meaning of "NO COMMENT" Glory grabbin, Know nothing assholes.

Edited April 18, 2007 by xXBucktoothgeekXx

[dividedautoworkers]

If you look at the comparison sheet that was handed out with the COA, you can plainly see how our agreement differs from the other plants.( lots more givebacks, ie.. Rouge, KCAP than we did ) The fact that someone is already running for Chairman can also be construed as " they don't know what the fuck they are doing" or " they have a hell of a lot of hot dogs to get rid of". On your last point,...Yes, other plants that approved COA are threatened with closure; they did not get letters of guarantee; they got "consideration" for work. You can try to spin it any way you want, but Nick, did a hell of a job with this agreement. Yes, I said Nick. But who put it in the papers before the membership could be notified? The Donovan s AGAIN. None of them know the meaning of "NO COMMENT" Glory grabbin, Know nothing assholes.

 

 

I like what Jerry said at one of the meetings. He said that just because they agreed to stuff in the COA doesn't mean anything because a lot of what was agreed to hasn't been implemented. I think that is what's going on at OHAP. As for the Donovans, hey, they're the only ones that are ever telling us about what's going on in the plant. Did they contact the papers or did the papers contact them? I know that they were at Southview when the voting was going on. As for knowing nothing, why did Jerry have to be the one to tell us about the bodyshop? Even Nick didn't know about that one. Are you ticked they didn't ask you? I've heard that you have a thing about sour grapes....

[slapshot2]

As few of us have seen the C.O.A.'s from other plants I don't know how we can say how good or how bad they are in contrast to each other. Regarding the politics I agree that it is way to early to be campaigning for office. I am sure that there will be plenty of candidates who will run for the different offices when the time comes.That someone is already campaigning for chairman indicates to me that asizable group of members must be unhappy with the way things are being run.As for keeping the plant open,didn't a previous chairman report that a new bodyshop was in the works.This was before the c.o.a.was settled.Ford makes decisions based upon many factors,not just one small agreement.Haven't we read that some plants that agreed to C.O.A.'s are being closed or downsized.

 

Yes, but if Ford wants to contiue to build Econoline vans thru the year 2011, they are leally obligated to do so at OHAP. Period. There were a few copies of other coa agreements around the plant. Anyone taking the time to look for one could have obtained one. And yes, what I saw was much worse. Hi-Lo eliminated, many trades eliminated and combined, etc. I would say we are lucky to have escaped some of these results. How can you say someone starting to campaign this early is doing so purely because of unhappiness with the current structure? Ever think about the possibility that a person with the integrity to try and secure your future vote by feeding you lunch may be doing so because he wants the high paying job? I'd say there's a good chance that's what's going on here. If you have credibility and qualifications that can be substantiated, you certainly don't need to sway people with your weenie! Besides, I'd hardly consider 1 guy having a daily or weekly roast on an assembly line as representing a sizable group, would you? Lastly, who told anyone they were getting a new bodyshop? I wish someone would tell the bodyshop this. Refurbishing some tooling and adding a bit of automation hardly qualifies as a new shop, but it is a step in the right direction. It certainly doesn't take the abilities of Nostradamus to deduct that for it to remain feasible to construct truck bodies into the future, work was going to have to be done to failing equipment, don't you think? It is wrong to make all of these futile attempts to discredit someone that is actually doing a pretty good job, regardless of your feelings for somebody else. People need to realize once and for all, there is no other side anymore, we need to move on, together, like it or not!

[Furious1Auto]

If you look at the comparison sheet that was handed out with the COA, you can plainly see how our agreement differs from the other plants.( lots more givebacks, ie.. Rouge, KCAP than we did ) The fact that someone is already running for Chairman can also be construed as " they don't know what the fuck they are doing" or " they have a hell of a lot of hot dogs to get rid of". On your last point,...Yes, other plants that approved COA are threatened with closure; they did not get letters of guarantee; they got "consideration" for work. You can try to spin it any way you want, but Nick, did a hell of a job with this agreement. Yes, I said Nick. But who put it in the papers before the membership could be notified? The Donovan s AGAIN. None of them know the meaning of "NO COMMENT" Glory grabbin, Know nothing assholes.

I will not bad mouth Nick because he is the sitting chiarman and, If he said it is time to sit outside I'm ready to go. We'll just have to see what the company puposes. I will say that you should not be so arrogant to think that Nicks savey and negotiating skills, or the companies love fo local 2000 is why we where able to negotiate a better COA. At this point OHAP is the only plant that builds the Econoline. The plants that took deeper consessions house products that are built at multiple facilities. If one where to strike or vote down the COA Ford could have shut them down and diverted the work to other plants. As for A work guarantee, the same district committee negotiated that the Escape would be produced at OHAP till 2008. Where is it now? Ford's guarantees mean nothing!

Edited April 18, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[hemmer1]

I believe that the state of Ohio can maybe explain as to how good Ford's guarantee's are!I am sure that Donovan{Jerry]said At the union meeting that there would be a NEW body shop.This refurb is just to hold us to a new shop is built,starting in 2010.In the past all that he told us came to pass.At the ratification meeting he said that a number of the plants were NOT implementing their C.O.A. agreements at this time.Regarding informing the press,most of the information was given by his son Michael who was one of the negotiators.By the time our local union informs the membership about things it is ancient history.As for our C.O.A when I asked Donovan{Jerry] as to his opinion about it,he said that we should support it as it would send the message that we were willing to work with Ford on their problems.He did however say,and I am sure that he would tell you himself, that it is not a good agreement for the union or the company and that the real issues would have to be addressed in September.

[xXBucktoothgeekXx]

Hey Hemmer,

When you say "everything he has told you, comes to pass"...... I have to wonder, Does that include, what he said about that appeal, also ? And yes, most of the info to the press came from his son, Michael. But being that the membership hadn't been told the results of the vote, as it had only been a few hours old ..(on a Sunday), wouldn't it have been more prudent for Michael to say " NO COMMENT" The answer to that is FUCKING YES !!!! Are you all that fucking blind ? Wow, you guys are such lemmings

Edited April 18, 2007 by xXBucktoothgeekXx

[needtoknow]

I like what Jerry said at one of the meetings. He said that just because they agreed to stuff in the COA doesn't mean anything because a lot of what was agreed to hasn't been implemented. I think that is what's going on at OHAP. As for the Donovans, hey, they're the only ones that are ever telling us about what's going on in the plant. Did they contact the papers or did the papers contact them? I know that they were at Southview when the voting was going on. As for knowing nothing, why did Jerry have to be the one to tell us about the bodyshop? Even Nick didn't know about that one. Are you ticked they didn't ask you? I've heard that you have a thing about sour grapes....

 

 

I think you got something there. Freddie is pissed off they didn't talk to him but he would've had to be around and anyone who has him as a rep knows its almost impossible to find him. Ole Bucktoof is pulling the same old same old. Do as I say or else. I talked to Jerry about the appeal (man, you gotta get something else to bitch about, it's getting old) and its funny how the court upheld everything but the PRB didn't. Like there not on the take? HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, tell us another one! Look at who is paying them! If Mike didn't tell us what happened who would've? How long would it've taken to tell us? I'd still like to know how many actually did vote. I think your right about the sour grapes. There gonna be really sour come next spring, huh?!

[Powertool Princess]

Who cares who is doing what for the membership as long as it helps the people? So people found out in the paper. This only means that nightshift had the information at the same time as dayshift. If the Donovans can help people, great. That's good of them to do. If Nick can help people, great. Who cares who is doing it as long as it gets done! God, grow up already! I've said it before that I don't know all the politics here but Bucktoothgeek you are really losing me on this! I'm guessing that no matter what they do its wrong as far as you're concerned. Some people on here think you're Fred and I really don't care if you because I don't know you all that well either but if you what is your problem with these people if they're helping? I just don't get it! Can anyone else clue some of us in? Slapshot2, you seem to be pretty reasonable. Do you know what's going on? Otherwise I'm just going to put that Bucktoothgeek guy on ignore.

[slapshot2]

I will not bad mouth Nick because he is the sitting chiarman and, If he said it is time to sit outside I'm ready to go. We'll just have to see what the company puposes. I will say that you should not be so arrogant to think that Nicks savey and negotiating skills, or the companies love fo local 2000 is why we where able to negotiate a better COA. At this point OHAP is the only plant that builds the Econoline. The plants that took deeper consessions house products that are built at multiple facilities. If one where to strike or vote down the COA Ford could have shut them down and diverted the work to other plants. As for A work guarantee, the same district committee negotiated that the Escape would be produced at OHAP till 2008. Where is it now? Ford's guarantees mean nothing!

A little far fetched, don't you think? I'll give you credit, there is some validity to your thought process, but the reality is, the vehicles that are produced at multiple plants were being done so because of enormous demand that one plant could not keep up with alone. So to make a claim that this is why certain COA's were inferior to others, is somehting that can not be substantiated, as they could never have met the demand at a single facility. Does it help that we are excluisive to our product? Sure, but you certainly can't take credit away from the final result for this. Bottom line, we got a better agreement than others. It matters not what the reason for it is.

 

As for the agreement with the Escape, that is not true, Ford guaranteed work for this facility for this duration, it was not product specific. If I am not mistaken, it was very much tied into an "agreement" with the state which is by no means as binding as a signed, legal, contract, which is what was radified a few weeks back. This comparison simply can not be made, as there are actually no similarities in the underlying verbage. Say what you want, but the folks that were representing the interests of the employees in the Escape unit (their bargaining unit) failed them in not securing a more solid agreement for the future of this product, but that certainly should not take away from the fact that your current bargaining unit got the job done this time. People can say what they want about the skills of Nick, but at the end of the day, this security that has been recently provided, was granted on his watch and you certainly can't credit others that are not in office for this accomplishment. As Chairman, he is our leader at the present time, and if anything, he deserves the thanks of this membership for the fact that none of our families have to worry about their immediate future as many others throughout this industry do. Anyone that can not bring themselves to recognize that, is ignorant beyond reason, and has interests far different than what is best for our future!

[slapshot2]

I think you got something there. Freddie is pissed off they didn't talk to him but he would've had to be around and anyone who has him as a rep knows its almost impossible to find him. Ole Bucktoof is pulling the same old same old. Do as I say or else. I talked to Jerry about the appeal (man, you gotta get something else to bitch about, it's getting old) and its funny how the court upheld everything but the PRB didn't. Like there not on the take? HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, tell us another one! Look at who is paying them! If Mike didn't tell us what happened who would've? How long would it've taken to tell us? I'd still like to know how many actually did vote. I think your right about the sour grapes. There gonna be really sour come next spring, huh?!

 

His response about this 'appeal' was in response to another's claim that a certain individual was never wrong, which in this case, he was, regardless of the reason. Bottom line, the product still left, and the unit was disolved. Period.

[slapshot2]

I believe that the state of Ohio can maybe explain as to how good Ford's guarantee's are!I am sure that Donovan{Jerry]said At the union meeting that there would be a NEW body shop.This refurb is just to hold us to a new shop is built,starting in 2010.In the past all that he told us came to pass.At the ratification meeting he said that a number of the plants were NOT implementing their C.O.A. agreements at this time.Regarding informing the press,most of the information was given by his son Michael who was one of the negotiators.By the time our local union informs the membership about things it is ancient history.As for our C.O.A when I asked Donovan{Jerry] as to his opinion about it,he said that we should support it as it would send the message that we were willing to work with Ford on their problems.He did however say,and I am sure that he would tell you himself, that it is not a good agreement for the union or the company and that the real issues would have to be addressed in September.

 

The state ahs absolutely ZERO to do with what is transpiring at our facility RIGHT NOW. Is that really all that hard to comprehend? What you are doing, is what is commonly referred to as "crying over spilled milk." This he said she said shit is helping no one. No offense, but do you not have the ability to think for yourself? Every post you write is filled with "Jerry said this" and "Jerry said that." Dude, find out the information for yourself, and make real decisions. Now is not the time to be a puppet or mouthpiece for someone else, it is a time to be an informed individual that holds the capability to make an INFORMED and EDUCATED decision about what the rules of the game are and what his role within it is. Your future is at stake, and all you are trying to do is justify for people whether or not Jerry Donovan was correct in things he said IN THE PAST!!! Is it really that hard to see that yesterday matters not one little bit in this industry? Get over it, become an individual, and worry about your own best interests for once. You'll be glad you did down the road!

 

As for the agreement not being good for Ford, I am sure that many within the company ranks would beg to differ with this. In todays business climate, anytime the company, or any company for that matter, can cut cost in any way shape or form they salivate. They love it. What, do you think they might feel bad and offer back some of the few takeaways come September, being as though it is no good for them? Get real. They're gonna ask for more is what they're gonna do, and your bargaining unit is going to spend a great deal of time trying to minimize the suffering for you, me, and everyone else and our families, all this while your polishing the workboots of the former Chairman. Makes sense doesn't it? Make no mistake about it. I have no "buddies" within this unit, but I do believe in loyalty and standing together for the common good of all of us, and to do that, you need to support what you have, not what you wish you had. In doing this you gain something called integrity, which is never a bad thing to have. Try it, you just might like it!

[slapshot2]

Who cares who is doing what for the membership as long as it helps the people? So people found out in the paper. This only means that nightshift had the information at the same time as dayshift. If the Donovans can help people, great. That's good of them to do. If Nick can help people, great. Who cares who is doing it as long as it gets done! God, grow up already! I've said it before that I don't know all the politics here but Bucktoothgeek you are really losing me on this! I'm guessing that no matter what they do its wrong as far as you're concerned. Some people on here think you're Fred and I really don't care if you because I don't know you all that well either but if you what is your problem with these people if they're helping? I just don't get it! Can anyone else clue some of us in? Slapshot2, you seem to be pretty reasonable. Do you know what's going on? Otherwise I'm just going to put that Bucktoothgeek guy on ignore.

 

Nice post. You seem to understand that it really doesn't matter who is getting the job done, as long as it gets done. And as long as it is getting done, credit is due those that are doing the getting done! Sounds kind of confusing huh? In reallity Princess, it is shameful that people want to play this political game with your best interests at stake isn't it? The way I see it, if a pitchers throwing strikes, you keep him in the game, and by virtue of the fact that we are still in this game when many others in the industry had counted us out, I'd say we owe some loyalty to those that have been making the calls up to this point, wouldn't you? Being pissed about the timeliness of an information exchange really seems kind of trivial in the grand scheme of things, doesn't it? If that's the worst we get from this Chairman, I'd say we're doing pretty good. If that's the kind of stuff that certain people are mostly concerned with, than they should have elected Mary when she ran for District. There is not a better person in the building for making sure that information gets to where it needs to go than her. Wonder where all of these information starved individuals were when it was time to show her support for her efforts? The point here is this; No matter what you do for a certain element, they are always going to be unhappy. All we can do I suppose, is hope that in the end, common sense prevails. Good luck to you!

[Furious1Auto]

A little far fetched, don't you think? I'll give you credit, there is some validity to your thought process, but the reality is, the vehicles that are produced at multiple plants were being done so because of enormous demand that one plant could not keep up with alone. So to make a claim that this is why certain COA's were inferior to others, is somehting that can not be substantiated, as they could never have met the demand at a single facility. Does it help that we are excluisive to our product? Sure, but you certainly can't take credit away from the final result for this. Bottom line, we got a better agreement than others. It matters not what the reason for it is.

 

As for the agreement with the Escape, that is not true, Ford guaranteed work for this facility for this duration, it was not product specific. If I am not mistaken, it was very much tied into an "agreement" with the state which is by no means as binding as a signed, legal, contract, which is what was radified a few weeks back. This comparison simply can not be made, as there are actually no similarities in the underlying verbage. Say what you want, but the folks that were representing the interests of the employees in the Escape unit (their bargaining unit) failed them in not securing a more solid agreement for the future of this product, but that certainly should not take away from the fact that your current bargaining unit got the job done this time. People can say what they want about the skills of Nick, but at the end of the day, this security that has been recently provided, was granted on his watch and you certainly can't credit others that are not in office for this accomplishment. As Chairman, he is our leader at the present time, and if anything, he deserves the thanks of this membership for the fact that none of our families have to worry about their immediate future as many others throughout this industry do. Anyone that can not bring themselves to recognize that, is ignorant beyond reason, and has interests far different than what is best for our future!

Once again I'm not taking away from Nick's accomplishments. I will be subordante to him without attempting to undercut his athority. I depend on him just as much as you do! What I'm saying is that the company would have given our barginning committee their last , best and, final offer on much worse terms if they had the leverage. As for the purpose for multiple plants being utilized to meet customer demand. How this came to be has absolutly nothing to do with how the company is utilizing this advantage today. Furthermore, Why did we negotiate anything before Sept.? We where not legally obligated to. No amount of pandering is going to persuade work out of Ford. They don't want to pay union wages and, when they are in the position they won't pay it anymore. Why are all of our new and hot selling vehicles built out of the country? They have a plan and will do as they please. Finally, the reason the company moved the product to Avon was because, It was smart business. They where paying utilities on a 3.2 million square ft. facility to house 1/2 of a product. It seems as though Lorain people are being looked down upon. Arrogants from the current administration is what caused a blanket vote for democrats at our last public election. I would be careful not to incite the same fate on our local leaders. Local 2000 has some good leadership but it does not serve them to alienate their new constituants. Primarily because, they are the majority!

[hemmer1]

The state ahs absolutely ZERO to do with what is transpiring at our facility RIGHT NOW. Is that really all that hard to comprehend? What you are doing, is what is commonly referred to as "crying over spilled milk." This he said she said shit is helping no one. No offense, but do you not have the ability to think for yourself? Every post you write is filled with "Jerry said this" and "Jerry said that." Dude, find out the information for yourself, and make real decisions. Now is not the time to be a puppet or mouthpiece for someone else, it is a time to be an informed individual that holds the capability to make an INFORMED and EDUCATED decision about what the rules of the game are and what his role within it is. Your future is at stake, and all you are trying to do is justify for people whether or not Jerry Donovan was correct in things he said IN THE PAST!!! Is it really that hard to see that yesterday matters not one little bit in this industry? Get over it, become an individual, and worry about your own best interests for once. You'll be glad you did down the road!

 

As for the agreement not being good for Ford, I am sure that many within the company ranks would beg to differ with this. In todays business climate, anytime the company, or any company for that matter, can cut cost in any way shape or form they salivate. They love it. What, do you think they might feel bad and offer back some of the few takeaways come September, being as though it is no good for them? Get real. They're gonna ask for more is what they're gonna do, and your bargaining unit is going to spend a great deal of time trying to minimize the suffering for you, me, and everyone else and our families, all this while your polishing the workboots of the former Chairman. Makes sense doesn't it? Make no mistake about it. I have no "buddies" within this unit, but I do believe in loyalty and standing together for the common good of all of us, and to do that, you need to support what you have, not what you wish you had. In doing this you gain something called integrity, which is never a bad thing to have. Try it, you just might like it!

How do you find out information?You ask someone.When I first started to try and find out as to what was going on in the plant ,I asked around.Pretty much everyone that I spoke to said the same thing."If you want to know what is happening in or about the plant ,go ask the Irishman.Idid this and have been doing this for some years now.I ain't ever found him to be wrong yet.As for saying things in the past ,most things that I asked about dealt with the future.How do you make an "informed decision"without first getting information?yes I worry about my own best intrests as I still have some years to go,hopefully here at O.H.A.P.I too have no buddies here but I do have a family to think about,that is why I will continue to seek for information wherever I can find it.It is way to early to start politics but when the time comes I,hopefully like everyone else when election time comes,will vote for what we believe to be our best intrests.If this is to support those in office now,fine,if it is to vote them out of office fine.Regardless it will be our own "informed"decision.

[xXBucktoothgeekXx]

My point in mentioning the rush to the media, was only to say that the membership had a right to know the outcome of the ratification BEFORE the media. And yes slapshot, my mention of the infamous "appeal" was merely to point out that Jerry is NOT always right. Thank you for getting it. Furious, please enlighten us as to how "the new constituents" are being alienated. And Hemmer, needtoknow, and the rest of the cronies; Have a bowl of Lucky Charms, maybe that'll satisfy your Jerry fix for awhile.

[dividedautoworkers]

Powertool I think your on to Freddy! But you need to watch out cuz if you dont agree with everything the Penas say then your the enemy and they'll start bashing you too. God help you if you happen to like somebody else from who they like they take it personal. Your better off just putting them on ignore. They don't do anything but cut hogs and deals for there buddies and if you complain they'll try to threaten and intimidate you. But they gotta do it together, they can't stand alone. They hate anybody that might know something more than them. They want this membership to be divided. That way they can keep part of the membership in the dark about what there really doing - and it aint there job!

[Furious1Auto]

At first it seemed as though we where not welcome but, I think that has all died down now. What I meant was that if a potential candidate is slinging mud I would leave out the part about his apponent being from Lorain! I don't know if it is too early to begin campaigning or not. It would seem our government does it non stop. Some critisize those who run and you don't see but once the week before election. What I do know for certain is that weather campaigning or not, regaurdless of what plant we all came from. We all need to put aside our differences and stand behind Nick. This could possible be the hardest negotiation local 2000 has ever faced. We can tear each other apart after the contract is settled! Finally, I can see where there is room for some consessions but at some point we will have to say enough. I've heard lots of speculation as to what is going to be taken from us. I've also read many news articles about us not having power. I'll tell you what, that rumor of a $6.00 an hour pay cut is enough to make me stand outside. We don't work for contractor, we work for Ford.. At this point, 38,000 members have agreed to retire. These are people that will no longer recieve pay in the event of a strike. Nobody wants that but, if the UAW want's to send a clear message to our employers they need to increase our stike pay to levels that would sustain our households. Personally I've put back enough to sustain my family for several months without strike pay. The company needs to know that we will work with them but this is not a circus and, their not holding a bull horn & whip!

[thor uaw]

At first it seemed as though we where not welcome but, I think that has all died down now. What I meant was that if a potential candidate is slinging mud I would leave out the part about his apponent being from Lorain! I don't know if it is too early to begin campaigning or not. It would seem our government does it non stop. Some critisize those who run and you don't see but once the week before election. What I do know for certain is that weather campaigning or not, regaurdless of what plant we all came from. We all need to put aside our differences and stand behind Nick. This could possible be the hardest negotiation local 2000 has ever faced. We can tear each other apart after the contract is settled! Finally, I can see where there is room for some consessions but at some point we will have to say enough. I've heard lots of speculation as to what is going to be taken from us. I've also read many news articles about us not having power. I'll tell you what, that rumor of a $6.00 an hour pay cut is enough to make me stand outside. We don't work for contractor, we work for Ford.. At this point, 38,000 members have agreed to retire. These are people that will no longer recieve pay in the event of a strike. Nobody wants that but, if the UAW want's to send a clear message to our employers they need to increase our stike pay to levels that would sustain our households. Personally I've put back enough to sustain my family for several months without strike pay. The company needs to know that we will work with them but this is not a circus and, their not holding a bull horn & whip!

 

 

 

I was reading your post and started thinking about what did the UAW members do before we had Strike Money? They didn't get any money to sustain their household. It was based on principals and what was wrong and right. Boy, those guys must of had it easy!! What do you think?

[Furious1Auto]

I was reading your post and started thinking about what did the UAW members do before we had Strike Money? They didn't get any money to sustain their household. It was based on principals and what was wrong and right. Boy, those guys must of had it easy!! What do you think?

True enough, but the difference between then and now is the cost of living is much higher. You used to be able to thumb your way accross the U.S. or buy a motorcycle for nothing. People where whilling to help one another. There where jobs everywhere. Is this what we live in today? I'm not saying that some people aren't foolish with their money though. I see alot of people that live paycheck to paycheck, that's just reckless. The sad truth is that those people are weak and, they weaken our union. The days of collecting government poverty entitlements while on strike are long gone. Our dues have secured a large strike fund though. The most a company wide strike would last is a few months. Even if the UAW gave every active member a $300 check a week for 4 months that would not put a dent in what we have. What good is it to have an advantage if you don't utilize it? As for principals, I don't think anyone is attempting to do anyting immoral to the company. I think we need to make sure that they don't do anything immoral to us. Let's be accomidating without being subserviant. I don't like feeling like a whore. The best thing Ford and the UAW can do is to work together and, Make a public showing of some viable consession. After the steel workers took their lumps the public showed sympathy. When Ford is selling cars our wages are not such an issue. The best thing each individual UAW member can do is shut up and, stop bragging to the public about their pay and benefits. We need to keep our compensation out of the news! Edited April 20, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[thor uaw]

True enough, but the difference between then and now is the cost of living is much higher. You used to be able to thumb your way accross the U.S. or buy a motorcycle for nothing. People where whilling to help one another. There where jobs everywhere. Is this what we live in today? I'm not saying that some people aren't foolish with their money though. I see alot of people that live paycheck to paycheck, that's just reckless. The sad truth is that those people are weak and, they weaken our union. The days of collecting government poverty entitlements while on strike are long gone. Our dues have secured a large strike fund though. The most a company wide strike would last is a few months. Even if the UAW gave every active member a $300 check a week for 4 months that would not put a dent in what we have. What good is it to have an advantage if you don't utilize it? As for principals, I don't think anyone is attempting to do anyting immoral to the company. I think we need to make sure that they don't do anything immoral to us. Let's be accomidating without being subserviant. I don't like feeling like a whore. The best thing Ford and the UAW can do is to work together and, Make a public showing of some viable consession. After the steel workers took their lumps the public showed sympathy. When Ford is selling cars our wages are not such an issue. The best thing each individual UAW member can do is shut up and, stop bragging to the public about their pay and benefits. We need to keep our compensation out of the news!

 

 

Well said. Thanks. I just wanted to remind people that when the old uaw went on strike, they didn't have strike benefits.

 

Have a great weekend!

[Furious1Auto]

Well said. Thanks. I just wanted to remind people that when the old uaw went on strike, they didn't have strike benefits.

 

Have a great weekend!

That and, they also didn't have 401k's to draw from and live on, for those who have trouble saving! You too on "the weekend!"

Edited April 21, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Jasper]

His response about this 'appeal' was in response to another's claim that a certain individual was never wrong, which in this case, he was, regardless of the reason. Bottom line, the product still left, and the unit was disolved. Period.

I wasn't to clear what you were talking about when you wrote about the'appeal'.Having checked it out {actually got to read it]sorry but I disagree with your conclusion.Basically his appeal was against the International combining the two units for purposes of the election.[two O.H.A.P.UNITS]The appeal board said that when the membership voted to have seperate elections that the International had NO right under the constitution to combine the units.So in my book this makes him RIGHT!iT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF ANY BODY WHO WAS IN OFFICE AT THE TIME HAD CHALLANGED THE iNTERNATIONAL THAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO RUN THE ELECTION THE WAY THE MEMBERSHIP WANTED IT RUN.This is just my opinion.Honestly it is to complicated to understand all the arguements for and against this issue.However Isure anyone intrested can do what I did and check it out.You may come to a different conclusion.Whatever it is water under the bridge.

[slapshot2]

I wasn't to clear what you were talking about when you wrote about the'appeal'.Having checked it out {actually got to read it]sorry but I disagree with your conclusion.Basically his appeal was against the International combining the two units for purposes of the election.[two O.H.A.P.UNITS]The appeal board said that when the membership voted to have seperate elections that the International had NO right under the constitution to combine the units.So in my book this makes him RIGHT!iT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF ANY BODY WHO WAS IN OFFICE AT THE TIME HAD CHALLANGED THE iNTERNATIONAL THAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO RUN THE ELECTION THE WAY THE MEMBERSHIP WANTED IT RUN.This is just my opinion.Honestly it is to complicated to understand all the arguements for and against this issue.However Isure anyone intrested can do what I did and check it out.You may come to a different conclusion.Whatever it is water under the bridge.

No matter what the situation, when the underlying decision is not reversed, the appeal has failed, regardless of what kind of coulda, woulda, shoulda spin you try to put on it. Please re-read my conlusion and show me one way in which it is faulted. The plant I work in, has one production unit, building one product. If there is something I am missing here, I would love to know what it is. Do tell.

[Spring]

By the way, I have the minutes of the April union meeting available. Since it has been intimated that people don't necessarily want this information, I have decided that I won't post them here but I will make them available in the plant on a first come first serve basis. I am up on the windshield cell if anyone wants them. Thanks Slapshot, your insight has saved me a tremendous amount of time and energy.

[WS6JJP]

By the way, I have the minutes of the April union meeting available. Since it has been intimated that people don't necessarily want this information, I have decided that I won't post them here but I will make them available in the plant on a first come first serve basis. I am up on the windshield cell if anyone wants them. Thanks Slapshot, your insight has saved me a tremendous amount of time and energy.

i would like to read it....im on nights so i wont be able to see you in person.