Ford Flex falls flat at car show

[pcsario]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18021283/

 

“This is Ford’s last shot,” said Bragman. “If they can’t turn this thing around, things are going to be difficult in the years ahead because the whole company is mortgaged. They had to get that loan because the liquidity situation was untenable. They were not turning a profit at their automotive operations. But in 2009 they have to turn a profit and start paying back some of the money they have secured. If they don’t manage to do it, it’s going to be a very difficult situation for Ford.”Unfortunately, Ford has shown little sign it has a strong pipeline of new vehicles coming to market, analysts say.

 

“We are concerned that we don’t see the same activity we are seeing at other automakers in their turnarounds,” said Bragman.

 

:reading:

[Blueblood]

Now that is a bullshit article, Ford got more positive press from the Flex than anything else in a long long long time..

 

Is Roland Jones on Toyota's payroll???

[waymondospiff]

Typical mainstream media blather. I'm sure nearly everyone reading this message board has a better idea about the business implications and product pipeline Ford has in store. Well, when I say "nearly everyone"...

 

But this is the typical "news" that is distributed to the masses. Not everyone is going to understand the ins-and-outs of the automotive business, therefore these "US Auto Losses 101" types of articles get printed and reprinted every couple of weeks by some business writer somewhere. They all follow the same template (GM & Ford (And recently Chrysler has been added back in) are bad, Toyota (and occassionally Honda and/or Hyundai) is good.) and they all basically say nothing because we as media consumers don't demand better.

 

The problem is, with all of the specialty news sources available now the web traditional generic print media is being left behind. And they have no idea what to do about it, so instead of improving their news coverage they'll dumb it down trying to search for a lowest common denominator in a vain attempt to increase circulation, improve profits, and remain relevant.

 

Anyway, I still find this interesting:

 

“If you look at GM, they’ve done a good job of communicating their plans for the future to the industry at large, and as such they really have restored confidence in their turnaround plan. Ford should be announcing to the world the products that they plan to come up with — the products coming out in the next three to five years — because that’s what is going to restore the confidence in much of the industry that they can turn their business around.”

 

Why is it that "analysts" demand to know what an auto company is going to do for the next 5 years before they'll rate a company as good or not? The auto industry is one of the most "open" industries now with press shots given early, blown embargoes, early sneak peeks, exclusive insider scoops, etc. I'm willing to guess that a key reason for the underwhelming response for the Flex from the analysts at the show was that many of them had probably already seen it at some "closed" Ford press event.

 

And, of course, if this article was up-to-date on the latest news, perhaps all of this "communicating" that GM has done should be questioned seeing as how they've "communicated" their switch to RWD only to announce today that those plans may very well change. Hmmm...

 

Scott

[focus05]

I already wrote a letter to Mr. Jones. He actuall responded, which surprised me. I would encourage anyone who is a bit miffed by this to respond to him as well. However, I would also encourage everyone to be polite and base your arguements on known facts - not rumors or feelings.

 

Thanks!

Edited April 11, 2007 by focus05

[Shoman594]

I already wrote a letter to Mr. Jones. He actuall responded, which surprised me. I would encourage anyone who is a bit miffed by this to respond to him as well. However, I would also encourage everyone to be polite and base your arguements on known facts - not rumors or feelings.

 

Thanks!

 

I would be interested to hear what he had to say in reply.

[SVT_MAN]

This cracks me up:

 

One positive for Ford is the elevation of the company’s chief vehicle designer, J Mays, who is responsible for shaping the design direction of Ford’s eight global brands. A criticism of Ford has been the blandness of its design, particularly of vehicles like the Ford Five Hundred, now renamed the Taurus. Mays is credited with redesign successes like the new Volkswagen Beetle and the Ford Thunderbird, and his prominence at Ford will help the company focus on producing well-styled vehicles, analysts say.

 

This cracks me up. We all know what a success the Ford Thunderbird redesign was. Just goes to show that analysts don't even read up before they start writing. What a bunch of idiots. If you remember right, everybody thought the redesigned Tbird would be a huge success too. Analysts know nothing. I wish the media would stop going to them. Even most of the casual viewers of this website know more than those blundering morons.

 

By the way, I could be wrong --- so correct me if I am --- but wasn't the Five Hundred done under design direction of J. Mays? It sure looks like it. It looks like a bloated Audi to me. That makes this statement even more ridiculous.

Edited April 11, 2007 by SVT_MAN

[Catalepsy]

I know most of us visit multiple automotive forums. Judging by the massive response on the Flex debut, I think this article is just flat wrong. However, it is MSNBC...So no one is surprised.

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18021283/

:reading:

[hbalek]

The article also stated that Ford has EIGHT brands but we all know after the sale of Aston Martin, they now have SEVEN brands!

[silvrsvt]

I know most of us visit multiple automotive forums. Judging by the massive response on the Flex debut, I think this article is just flat wrong. However, it is MSNBC...So no one is surprised.

 

 

I know auto extremist wasn't too pleased at its intro either...sharing the spot like with the GT500KR and Flex Expedition.

[Catalepsy]

...Why is that a bad thing? GT500KR draws attention. When you bring out a new Mustang variation, you're almost guaranteed a full house. It's like introducing a new TV show. You don't just slip it in some slot, you put it in between 2 hit shows. Flex Expy is lame. I guess he is supposed to draw in the hippop/wanna-be crowd...but I question his taste.

 

 

I know auto extremist wasn't too pleased at its intro either...sharing the spot like with the GT500KR and Flex Expedition.

[bolita]

The article also stated that Ford has EIGHT brands but we all know after the sale of Aston Martin, they now have SEVEN brands!

Actually, Ford Brazil just announced that Troller would be handled as a separate brand under the Ford Motor Company umbrella...son that would make 8! :shades:

[igor]

Actually, Ford Brazil just announced that Troller would be handled as a separate brand under the Ford Motor Company umbrella...son that would make 8! :shades:

do you have a link? I would like to read the announcement .. did they say anything else? Export plans?product plans? etc?

 

Thanks

 

Igor

[RichardJensen]

I know auto extremist wasn't too pleased at its intro either...sharing the spot like with the GT500KR and Flex Expedition.

Yeah, well, big fat hairy deal. How many people remember any auto intro two months after the fact anyway? This is just insider carping because Ford hasn't played things the way insiders want it played. Stupid media hacks--want stuff spoon fed to them at just the right temperature. I swear, it's like trying to feed a three-year old.

[NickF1011]

I swear, it's like trying to feed a three-year old.

 

Except three-year-olds don't insist on knowing what's for dinner when they are eight.

[DCK]

Well in the Next year and a half it would be wise of Ford to fix the exterior,

 

These are just my opinions:

 

1. Makes the rear taillights clear like the new Sable, they can still be LED's, clear tailights with detailed chrome would blend a ton better with the slab of chrome Ford through on the back end.

 

2. The headlights, Why didn't they ateleast try to copy the concept, instead the lights don't flow at all with the design. They are very nicely detailed but absolutely wrong for this vehicle.

 

3. Why is the whole front end compressed compared to the conpept? It looks dated and old, the concepts front end demanded much more present, the production front end is identical to a scion xB.

 

4. And don't show the vehicle off in that aweful color they decided to use for it's premier. SOmeone needs to be banned from all color making desicions at Ford because I can't remember any vehicle introduced in such a bad color that clearly didn't work with the design.

 

The interior is great though.

Edited April 11, 2007 by DCK

[silvrsvt]

Well in the Next year and a half it would be wise of Ford to fix the exterior,

 

These are just my opinions:

 

1. Makes the rear taillights clear like the new Sable, they can still be LED's, clear tailights with detailed chrome would blend a ton better with the slab of chrome Ford through on the back end.

 

2. The headlights, Why didn't they ateleast try to copy the concept, instead the lights don't flow at all with the design. They are very nicely detailed but absolutely wrong for this vehicle.

 

3. Why is the whole front end compressed compared to the conpept? It looks dated and old, the concepts front end demanded much more present, the production front end is identical to a scion xB.

 

4. And don't show the vehicle off in that aweful color they decided to use for it's premier. SOmeone needs to be banned from all color making desicions at Ford because I can't remember any vehicle introduced in such a bad color that clearly didn't work with the design.

 

The interior is great though.

 

 

I dunno, I wouldnt say the Flex and xB have identical front ends...they are similar, but not identical.

 

I don't care for the color either, but I'm sure that some of the stuff your complaining about would be cleared up by using a different color or seeing it in person. Cars have a tendency to look different in photos then they do in real life. The Edge, as an example looks much better in person and has this presence about it that it didnt have in photos.

[mkaresh]

I wasn't at the show, but my sense is that the response on the Internet has been much stronger and more positive than I expected.

 

On my own blog I named the Flex the winner of the New York show. No other model introduced there has generated as much buzz.

 

I'm not crazy about the exterior, but it will cut through the clutter. Perhaps the exterior will get the Flex noticed, and the interior will sell it. The seats look excellent.

[BORG]

Good thing most consumers don't read the opinions of random auto journalists. Remember that critically acclaimed products do not always translate to consumer acceptance.

 

The Flex is a lower volume product, I think 100,000 a year is very optimistic. This is not a mainstream vehicle and Ford may want to target its message to the journalists better. It all depends on its market acceptance, but I would warn that this product was based on a concept that was never developed in consumer research labs. The design team had to research the concept to see if there was adequate consumer interest, which is always a red-flag if you recall the number of failed concept-to-production translations. I am very skeptical that this product meets the needs, expectations, or desires of 100,000/year audience. Ford still needs a true Lambda type crossover with more "Edge" design, something much less fussy and more conventionally modern and sophisticated. Judging from the amazingly mediocre reception of the Freestyle, I don't think there is a large interest in a wagon-like CUV.

Edited April 12, 2007 by BORG

[sranger]

Well, I guess that is why thay call these type of articles "Opinions"....

 

I personally cannot stand the "Box on wheels" look, but it is a current fashon fad in the auto industry. I think that the Flex will sell quite well for at least the first two years. It might even be a hit ( My definition of a hit is when demand exceeds supply ) like the new mustang was. I just hope that Ford learned from the Edge and gives this thing acceptable ( at least pack average ) handling and braking.

 

If Ford plays this one right, they can extend it's life beyond the Fad. As people start to tire of the "box on wheels" look Ford should be able to gradually adjust the shape to suit the next big thing as the platform looks to be quite "flexable..."

[Blue II]

The Flex may do well and I hope it does, however something needs to be done about accellerating the "B" cars to market. Ford is way behind on small product for NA. I would have prioritized the Flex behind the "B" cars.

[igor]

The Flex may do well and I hope it does, however something needs to be done about accellerating the "B" cars to market. Ford is way behind on small product for NA. I would have prioritized the Flex behind the "B" cars.

well the b-cars hinge on the lack of platform isn't that true? Ford rejected the EcoSport, and decided to work on the all new B-cars coming out over the next 24 months ...

 

The Flex did not have that issue.

 

Igor

[NickF1011]

well the b-cars hinge on the lack of platform isn't that true? Ford rejected the EcoSport, and decided to work on the all new B-cars coming out over the next 24 months ...

 

The Flex did not have that issue.

 

Igor

 

True enough. In all reality, the B-cars won't be arriving that much later than the Flex - within 12 months. Development of the new global B-platform is still ongoing. Mazda will be first to market with the Mazda2 later this year...FoE gets the Fiesta next year....FNA gets them the following year.