RichardJensen Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 The brutal truth is, excuses like this won't fly anymore. My fiduciary responsibilities - or lack thereof - are irrelevant. The brutal truth is, Ford can't afford to fix everything at once. Maybe you don't like to admit it, but there's limits to how much can be spent at any given time, how much should be spent, how much money should be spent on plants with unknown futures, etc. Getting all indignant and saying this or that 'just won't fly', well, just doesn't fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 The brutal truth is, Ford can't afford to fix everything at once. Maybe you don't like to admit it, but there's limits to how much can be spent at any given time, how much should be spent, how much money should be spent on plants with unknown futures, etc. Getting all indignant and saying this or that 'just won't fly', well, just doesn't fly. Exactly. "Armchair CEOs" don't think in terms of budget and resource limitations. Im my current job, I'm responsible for $5.5 million budget. However, there's about $8.5 million worth of work to be done. It's matter of setting priorities and having the discipline to stick to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Exactly. "Armchair CEOs" don't think in terms of budget and resource limitations. Im my current job, I'm responsible for $5.5 million budget. However, there's about $8.5 million worth of work to be done. It's matter of setting priorities and having the discipline to stick to them. "Amrchair CEOs" are also known as "paying customers" and don't care about budgets or any other excuses. They go with the company that does the best job of meeting their needs. Judging by sales trends and profitability, for too many customers, that company isn't Ford. The reasons why Ford is not meeting their needs is irrelevant to them...especially when there are plenty of other choices out there. I want Ford to succeed, but excuses won't make that happen. People need to get away from this bulletin board and talk to car buyers in the real world. They don't want excuses. They want reliable product. When I look at my friends - all middle class, 30- or 40-something suburban residents with decent incomes and many years of car buying ahead of them, and don't see ONE Ford vehicle (and only three domestic vehicles - a Chevrolet Cavalier given to one friend by her grandmother, a Pontiac Montana bought used and a Chrysler 300) in any of those garages, I get worried. And, no, I don't live in southern California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 "Amrchair CEOs" are also known as "paying customers" and don't care about budgets or any other excuses. They go with the company that does the best job of meeting their needs. Judging by sales trends and profitability, for too many customers, that company isn't Ford. The reasons why Ford is not meeting their needs is irrelevant to them...especially when there are plenty of other choices out there. I want Ford to succeed, but excuses won't make that happen. People need to get away from this bulletin board and talk to car buyers in the real world. They don't want excuses. They want reliable product. When I look at my friends - all middle class, 30- or 40-something suburban residents with decent incomes and many years of car buying ahead of them, and don't see ONE Ford vehicle (and only three domestic vehicles - a Chevrolet Cavalier given to one friend by her grandmother, a Pontiac Montana bought used and a Chrysler 300) in any of those garages, I get worried. And, no, I don't live in southern California. That's all well and good but it does little to change the FACT that Ford only has so much money to spend and can't fix every little problem that YOU or anyone else outside of Ford managment thinks is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 "Amrchair CEOs" are also known as "paying customers" and don't care about budgets or any other excuses. They go with the company that does the best job of meeting their needs. Judging by sales trends and profitability, for too many customers, that company isn't Ford. The reasons why Ford is not meeting their needs is irrelevant to them...especially when there are plenty of other choices out there. I want Ford to succeed, but excuses won't make that happen. Uh, the excuses have stopped, and the Mull is starting to make it happen with what's left after Bill's pruning. But, the problem is, for almost a decade, Ford has not been in the top of people's shopping lists. Another way of saying it is that Mystique and Contour really, really hurt (the long-term effect of this debacle hurts so bad we don't talk about it much on BOF), and it took until 2K5 to get a solid replacement. Until then, Ford was a vacuum in sedans, especially after the "oval" Taurus. It seemed that there was nothing on the showroom floor for 4-5 years. Then we get a new Focus line-up, built with Jac-process components, and there's still nothing on the showroom floor as time goes by and more people get in the habit of shopping elsewhere. Considering just how verkukte things were, this is a solid start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 That's all well and good but it does little to change the FACT that Ford only has so much money to spend and can't fix every little problem that YOU or anyone else outside of Ford managment thinks is important. If a vehicle is subpar in reliability, that is not a "little" problem, although if you think it is, and this is a reflection of the Ford mindset, it's no wonder that so many of the people I know are happily driving Hondas and Toyotas, and really don't care if Ford declares bankruptcy. A Ford bankruptcy is, to them, a "little" problem that the company brought on itself. Keep on living in that bubble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Uh, the excuses have stopped, and the Mull is starting to make it happen with what's left after Bill's pruning. But, the problem is, for almost a decade, Ford has not been in the top of people's shopping lists. Another way of saying it is that Mystique and Contour really, really hurt (the long-term effect of this debacle hurts so bad we don't talk about it much on BOF), and it took until 2K5 to get a solid replacement. Until then, Ford was a vacuum in sedans, especially after the "oval" Taurus. It seemed that there was nothing on the showroom floor for 4-5 years. Then we get a new Focus line-up, built with Jac-process components, and there's still nothing on the showroom floor as time goes by and more people get in the habit of shopping elsewhere. Considering just how verkukte things were, this is a solid start. I sure hope so... I really like the new vehicles, but the bottom line is that they are dragging the ball-and-chain of Ford's recent past along with them, and that only makes Mullaly's work more difficult. So far, though, I like the executive decisions that I see him making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) Im my current job, I'm responsible for $5.5 million budget. However, there's about $8.5 million worth of work to be done. It's matter of setting priorities and having the discipline to stick to them. What kind of work are we talking about here? If it's engineering, prototype construction and testing, can these be outsourced to a South American, Korean, or Chinese contractor or subsidiary of Ford? I hate to say it, but if you don't have enough money to do it right domestically, so that buyers WANT to buy the vehicle, then what are your options for outsourcing in other countries???? Think about GM and Daewoo/Korea. I know it sounds like sacrilege, but it's happening in the IT world in which I work. Why not (or not MORE of it) in the automotive world? The bottom line is getting a car built that people want, and getting it on the lots at an affordable price in a timely fashion. I think the Fusion/Milan/MKZ is a peek into this (arguably successful, depending on who you ask - UAW types don't like it) mindset that is probably already at work at FoMoCo. -Ovaltine Edited June 8, 2007 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) What???? Consumer Reports is huge when people consider vehicle purchase. Mullaly was right when he took the engineers to CR and told them to shut up and take notes, instead of trying to justify the shortcomings of the vehicles...You don't work at Ford, do you? Hope not. I think it was a smart move...as much as I condemn CR ( as I beleive in order to truly judge a car one must live with it for several years...AND their blatantly obvious Japanese bias ) Mullaly did the right thing and a LOT of people DO use it as a guide...even as skewed as it is.....and evry little bit counts....I will be interested if the Tundra problems are larger than indicated ( 20 ...GIMME A BREAK....pun intended, along with bad crash scores ) how CR will veiw one of their crown jewel manufacturers and jump off the japanese groupie wagon........ Edited June 8, 2007 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) If a vehicle is subpar in reliability, that is not a "little" problem, although if you think it is, and this is a reflection of the Ford mindset, it's no wonder that so many of the people I know are happily driving Hondas and Toyotas, and really don't care if Ford declares bankruptcy. A Ford bankruptcy is, to them, a "little" problem that the company brought on itself. Keep on living in that bubble... Is the vehicle actually subpar or is that just an assumption on your part? If it is subpar, then please provide some back up proof for your assertions. How about you keep living the little bubble of disconnected reality that you inhabit? Edited June 8, 2007 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 What kind of work are we talking about here? If it's engineering, prototype construction and testing, can these be outsourced to a South American, Korean, or Chinese contractor or subsidiary of Ford? I hate to say it, but if you don't have enough money to do it right domestically, so that buyers WANT to buy the vehicle, then what are your options for outsourcing in other countries???? Think about GM and Daewoo/Korea. I know it sounds like sacrilege, but it's happening in the IT world in which I work. Why not (or not MORE of) in the automotive world? The bottom line is getting a car built that people want, and getting it on the lots at an affordable price in a timely fashion. I think the Fusion/Milan/MKZ is a peek into this (arguably successful, depending on who you ask) mindset that is probably already at work at FoMoCo. -Ovaltine I don't work in the automotive business although it is engineering and manufacturing related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Is the vehicle actually subpar or is that just an assumption on your part? If it is subpar, then please provide some back up proof for your assertions. How about you keep living the little bubble of disconnected reality that you inhabit? Read the ratings in Consumer Reports for these vehicles (Expedition and Explorer). Both vehicles earn subpar reliability ratings, which is a shame, as they are otherwise quite nice vehicles. You may ignore those ratings, but lots of people don't. If the vehicle does not score well, they won't even consider it. Unfair? Well, too bad. That isn't their problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) Read the ratings in Consumer Reports for these vehicles (Expedition and Explorer). Both vehicles earn subpar reliability ratings, which is a shame, as they are otherwise quite nice vehicles. You may ignore those ratings, but lots of people don't. If the vehicle does not score well, they won't even consider it. Unfair? Well, too bad. That isn't their problem. So in other words, you want Ford to invest in two vehicles that are part of a shrinking market at the risk of not having sufficient resources to invest in a growing market, such as crossovers? Now, I don't deny that they should at some point in the future address this issue but I firmly believe there are more important areas of concern that need to be addressed first. Edited June 8, 2007 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) Read the ratings in Consumer Reports for these vehicles (Expedition and Explorer). Both vehicles earn subpar reliability ratings, which is a shame, as they are otherwise quite nice vehicles. You may ignore those ratings, but lots of people don't. If the vehicle does not score well, they won't even consider it. Unfair? Well, too bad. That isn't their problem. I seem to recall the COMPLETE opposite call on the 08 Expedition recently...like I have said in a previous different thread...I don't beleive half of what I read in CR....they should stick to washing machines/ blenders and lawn-mowers....HOW THE HELL CAN ANYONE WITH HALF A DAMN BRAIN TAKE THEIR REVEIWS SERIOUSLY ....i mean think of it you are taking someone that reveiws a damn lightbulb as an AUTHORITY on vehicular excellence OR woes....not me...for good or BAD I will refer to other opinions......people with TRUE hands on experience...NOT self proclaimed experts basing opinions on their OWN bias. ( $hit that sounds like me on these posts)...but sounds as though you signed up for lifetime delivery option... Edited June 8, 2007 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 The ammount of excuses and complacency in this thread is sickening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 The ammount of excuses and complacency in this thread is sickening. Well then, you'll be busy barfing your guts up for the next couple of hours and we won't be hearing from you right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 The ammount of excuses and complacency in this thread is sickening. I'm not even referring to vehicles PC...if the comment was directed at me that is....CR sucks bottom line....and those that place importance on their recommendations deserve the "sludge factor'..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) No it wasn't aimed at you or CR. There are just a lot of yellow lightbulbs here that are worrisome. Edited June 8, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 No it wasn't aimed at you or CR. There are just a lot of yellow lightbulbs here that are worrisome. hell....youre not losing you edge are you....you are great at lighting sparks, irrespective if I agree or not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 No it wasn't aimed at you or CR. There are just a lot of yellow lightbulbs here that are worrisome. Please enlighten us then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) Glad you asked. In your case it doesn't matter if a segment is shrinking, great quality control should be a standard, not a priviledge. The Explorer still outsells the Fusion by a significant margin, so yeah, I think that in your case, burning all those customers just because "it's not selling as good as it used to, so why bother fixing things?" is not a valid excuse to let quality slip. Any potential customer should be Ford's #1 priority, regardless if he's interested in the Edge or the Explorer. Edited June 8, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Glad you asked. In your case it doesn't matter if a segment is shrinking, great quality control should be a standard, not a priviledge. The Explorer still outsells the Fusion by a significant margin, so yeah, I think that in your case, burning all those customers just because "it's not selling as good as it used to, so why bother fixing things?" is not a valid excuse to let quality slip. Any potential customer should be Ford's #1 priority, regardless if he's interested in the Edge or the Explorer. and thus my take on CR........a majority of Explorer owners trade in on ANOTHER Explorer...all i hear is how damn bulletproof they are and the mileage on the turn in underlines my point...I frequently see 150k plus....of course then the only other hurdle is the "new" styling...hell that THING was a waste of penmanship.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) Glad you asked. In your case it doesn't matter if a segment is shrinking, great quality control should be a standard, not a priviledge. The Explorer still outsells the Fusion by a significant margin, so yeah, I think that in your case, burning all those customers just because "it's not selling as good as it used to, so why bother fixing things?" is not a valid excuse to let quality slip. First, I clearly stated that it should be fixed IF indeed quality has slipped. The caveat is that with limited funds, priorities have be set. The pocketbook is only so deep. Given that a decision has too be made, where do you spend the money? I hear lots of rhetoric about complacency but I haven't heard shit about any real solutions. Perhaps that's because you're full of empty and overused catchphrases ("bubububububu") and don't have any real substance to contribute? Edited June 8, 2007 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Glad you asked. In your case it doesn't matter if a segment is shrinking, great quality control should be a standard, not a priviledge. The Explorer still outsells the Fusion by a significant margin, so yeah, I think that in your case, burning all those customers just because "it's not selling as good as it used to, so why bother fixing things?" is not a valid excuse to let quality slip. Any potential customer should be Ford's #1 priority, regardless if he's interested in the Edge or the Explorer. Thank you for summing this up better than I could. Ford cannot afford to burn ANY customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) Perhaps you missed recent articles where Mulally had to tell his engineers to listen instead of making up excuses? Ford loses about 3k per Focus, the corporation is/was a mess, don't even try to imply things were ok and you can't find ways to optimize resources. We've suggested ways to make Ford more competitive financially, even Mulally has suggested plenty of things we've said over the years. Care to tell us how you're spending the money so I can give you a reasonable answer? Kinda stupid to ask me for an answer when you yourself don't want to say anything. Edited June 8, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.