Next Gen Ecape Hybrid?

[atlpirate1]

the new redesigned 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid looks great inside and out, but i heard that the hybrid drive system is still the "original" version.

i am wondering when or if there will be a NEXT-Gen or Version II Hybrid drive system (i.e. like the Toyota Pruis II).

???

[leoart]

The next generation of Ford hybrid might be a ways off (I'd guess financial reasons,) unless you look towards the Fusion hybrid. Ford did recently release some Fleet E85 Escapes though: E85 Escape Fleet Hybrid

 

The 08 drivetrain and specs may be the same but there are some software improvements that make the system a little smoother and get a few more mpg (if you compare 07 test data.)

 

The Toyota and Ford systems are similar in that they are both "full" hybrids, but the Ford system was totally built from scratch (might explain why it was delayed for as long as it was.)

Edited June 15, 2007 by leoart

[atlpirate1]

The next generation of Ford hybrid might be a ways off (I'd guess financial reasons,) unless you look towards the Fusion hybrid. Ford did recently release some Fleet E85 Escapes though: E85 Escape Fleet Hybrid

 

The 08 drivetrain and specs may be the same but there are some software improvements that make the system a little smoother and get a few more mpg (if you compare 07 test data.)

 

The Toyota and Ford systems are similar in that they are both "full" hybrids, but the Ford system was totally built from scratch (might explain why it was delayed for as long as it was.)

 

 

hhmm, ok.

 

i referenced the toyota prius only because first there was the prius and now there is the prius II with a supposedly "version 2" or "improved" hybrid drive system.

 

i just want to know if there will be a "version II" or "much improved" hybrid drive system for the Escape Hybrid anytime soon. more than just software improvements.....i.e. better-smaller batteries? better more efficient energy regen braking? higher mph limit for the electric mode? etc...

 

thanks for any info.

[sullynd]

i just want to know if there will be a "version II" or "much improved" hybrid drive system for the Escape Hybrid anytime soon. more than just software improvements.....i.e. better-smaller batteries? better more efficient energy regen braking? higher mph limit for the electric mode? etc...

 

New system in the Escape? In the current platform? unlikely - the Fusion Hybrid will be Ford's "next generation" system and is supposed to be adaptable to more vehicles. When the Escape gets shifted to a new platform it may see some version of this next gen system.

[focalxplosion]

New system in the Escape? In the current platform? unlikely - the Fusion Hybrid will be Ford's "next generation" system and is supposed to be adaptable to more vehicles. When the Escape gets shifted to a new platform it may see some version of this next gen system.

 

In addition the biggest supposed benefit is that it is much less expensive to manufacture and Ford will be developing their own transmission.

[billyk24]

hhmm, ok.

 

i referenced the toyota prius only because first there was the prius and now there is the prius II with a supposedly "version 2" or "improved" hybrid drive system.

 

i just want to know if there will be a "version II" or "much improved" hybrid drive system for the Escape Hybrid anytime soon. more than just software improvements.....i.e. better-smaller batteries? better more efficient energy regen braking? higher mph limit for the electric mode? etc...

 

thanks for any info.

 

Escape Hybrid Generation II arrives with the 2009 model. See elsewhere for details. These changes will be shared with the Fusion Hybrid.

Generation III Hybrid system arrives with the 2010 EDGE and Lincoln V6 hybrids.

[Walt]

Escape Hybrid Generation II arrives with the 2009 model. See elsewhere for details. These changes will be shared with the Fusion Hybrid.

 

Is what that's in the 2009, really a "Generation II"???

 

Yea, the ICE is changing, but that's mostly due to the gas-only 4 cyl also changing for 2009.

 

From everything concrete, there doesn't appear to be any new changes in any of the hybrid hardware for 2009. Yea, there was some speculation (guessing) that the battery pack will change to same lower voltage one used by the Fusion, but the 2009 Ordering Guide documents it isn't.

[akirby]

Is what that's in the 2009, really a "Generation II"???

 

Yea, the ICE is changing, but that's mostly due to the gas-only 4 cyl also changing for 2009.

 

From everything concrete, there doesn't appear to be any new changes in any of the hybrid hardware for 2009. Yea, there was some speculation (guessing) that the battery pack will change to same lower voltage one used by the Fusion, but the 2009 Ordering Guide documents it isn't.

 

The Gen II change had to do with packaging so that it would fit in a standard engine bay. That's why the Fusion had to wait for Gen II.

[GaryG]

Is what that's in the 2009, really a "Generation II"???

 

Yea, the ICE is changing, but that's mostly due to the gas-only 4 cyl also changing for 2009.

 

From everything concrete, there doesn't appear to be any new changes in any of the hybrid hardware for 2009. Yea, there was some speculation (guessing) that the battery pack will change to same lower voltage one used by the Fusion, but the 2009 Ordering Guide documents it isn't.

 

It's still up in the air as far as we know if Ford updated the FEH eCVT to the next generation Variable Voltage Converter (VVC). This could increase EV speed and distance and the newly developed transaxle fluid is said to allow higher motor RPM. The VVC is said to reduce heat and eliminate the need for the HV battery A/C. My understanding is this new 2nd generation eCVT will also reduce cost of the HV battery, but like you said, the FEH still shows the 330V battery in the Ordering Guide. The elimination of the Aux battery A/C would reduce cost and keeping the 330V with the VVC would be a great package outside the plug-in Lithium battery package now being tested.

 

The second generation Prius in fact changed to a VVC, but Toyota called it a Buck-Boost Converter.

 

Ford is not making a big deal of the next generation Navigational System coming out in the '09 FEH that one would have to read closely to know about. This new Voice Activated Nav Sys together with Sync and SIRIUS is a big deal if you ask me. Micosoft has been working with Ford on this new system and the marketing seems like the release of one of their systems like the X Box 360. Remember, Ford hasn't released any kind of EPA estimates for the '09 FEH/MMH, and we already have placed orders for them. My bet is the '09 FEH/MMH will have major changes and that information will be released in a week or so. Those of us that have our names on a order sheet into Ford will be glad they did if this happens. I'll still be very happy with the concrete changes we know about now.

[Walt]

Remember, Ford hasn't released any kind of EPA estimates for the '09 FEH/MMH, and we already have placed orders for them.

 

Well, Ford has said that even though the change in engine will result in a slightly improved MPG for the gas-only, they did go out of their way to add that there would be no MPG change for the hybrid.

[GaryG]

Well, Ford has said that even though the change in engine will result in a slightly improved MPG for the gas-only, they did go out of their way to add that there would be no MPG change for the hybrid.

 

Interesting Walt, I didn't see that comment, do you have a link?

 

Here is where I see the possibility of improved MPG:

 

"Speaking at the 2008 SAE Hybrid Vehicle Technology Symposium in San Diego yesterday, Sherif Markaby, Global Core Engineer for hybrids at Ford Motor Company, provided some technical details of the coming 2009 Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids, due at the end of the year, as well as of the 2009 Escape and Mariner hybrids, which are scheduled to be released in a few months.

 

All four hybrids will share a new powertrain that combines a 2.5L inline four-cylinder engine with a series-parallel transaxle. While the basic layout and packaging of the powertrain and related components remains for the most part unchanged from the 2005-2008 Escape component architecture, many of those components have been redesigned for improved efficiency."

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/02/ford-previews-n.html

 

Everything I read in this article says the '09 FEH/MMH was redesigned for improved efficiency. Does anyone see any changes that would not improve MPG?

[Donaldo]

I'm curious, will Ford argue that the '09s new standard rear drum brakes will increase efficiency?

[GaryG]

I'm curious, will Ford argue that the '09s new standard rear drum brakes will increase efficiency?

 

I'm sure the rear drum brake addition will not increase efficiency, and may add a little more drag. Myself, I'm not that concerned because I always use "L" for regen before I use the brake pedal. Once the brake shoes are broke-in, the drag should be reduced a little more.

 

I conducted many coasting test from 40mph to a dead stop in Neutral and Drive and recorded the results in a thread at Greenhybrid.com. My '05 FEH coasted 36-38% further in neutral with the engine off. The FEH still has regen when you let off the gas pedal in "D" without using the brakes. I only coast in "N" which eliminates all regen for a much longer coast, engine off or on. I'll be able to tell just how much if any drag the rear drums cause compared to my '05. Wind drag is reduced on the '09 FEH/MMH, so that may offset any brake drum drag also.

[FEH2009]

Interesting Walt, I didn't see that comment, do you have a link?

 

Here is where I see the possibility of improved MPG:

 

"Speaking at the 2008 SAE Hybrid Vehicle Technology Symposium in San Diego yesterday, Sherif Markaby, Global Core Engineer for hybrids at Ford Motor Company, provided some technical details of the coming 2009 Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids, due at the end of the year, as well as of the 2009 Escape and Mariner hybrids, which are scheduled to be released in a few months.

 

All four hybrids will share a new powertrain that combines a 2.5L inline four-cylinder engine with a series-parallel transaxle. While the basic layout and packaging of the powertrain and related components remains for the most part unchanged from the 2005-2008 Escape component architecture, many of those components have been redesigned for improved efficiency."

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/02/ford-previews-n.html

 

Everything I read in this article says the '09 FEH/MMH was redesigned for improved efficiency. Does anyone see any changes that would not improve MPG?

 

I was assuming the 1 mpg improvement on the non-hybrid would be the same for the FEH but there is no specific mention of it (for the FEH) in this Ford press release posted today at Ford.com. We will have to wait and see.....

 

2009 FORD ESCAPE, MERCURY MARINER MORE FUN TO DRIVE

Related Topics: Company Information, Vehicles, Enthusiast, News & AnnouncementsPrint | Email this page | Subscribe

 

DEARBORN, Mich., May 14, 2008 – The Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner are more engaging to drive than ever.

 

For 2009, the compact SUVs combine improved performance and responsiveness with fuel-economy savings. Improvements include powertrain upgrades, new low-rolling-resistance tires and aerodynamics refinements – all of which contribute to a more dynamic, fun-to-drive experience.

 

New engine technology is at the heart of the fuel economy and performance enhancements for the 2009 Escape and Mariner. Retuned suspensions and steering along with a new set of tires provide a harmonious balance between performance and handling.

 

The new 2.5-liter I-4 engine boasts a 1.7-second improvement in 0-60-mph acceleration. An optional, 3.0-liter V-6 engine is offered with a 40-hp increase to 240 hp. The additional power helps Escape and Mariner V-6 models cut 1.7 seconds from their 0-60 mph acceleration times.

 

Both engines are expected to achieve an estimated 1 mpg improvement versus the outgoing models.

 

On hybrid models, the new I-4 engine also has been adapted to the Atkinson Cycle. Advancements in engine processor technology enable a nearly imperceptible transition from gas to electric mode.

 

On the road, suspension and other chassis changes allow these small SUVs to offer a driving dynamic performance that feels more like a car than a truck.

 

For example, the steering system of the Escape and Mariner has been retuned for better control and tighter cornering capability. Also improving handling are a new 18.5 mm rear stabilizer bar and revised suspension tuning.

 

“When it comes to steering, it’s about finding the proper balance between tire performance and steering dynamics,” says Ron Razzano, Escape/Mariner vehicle engineering manager. “With Escape and Mariner, we found that balance, giving optimal car-like drivability and increased responsiveness.”

 

Braking improvements focused on increasing initial braking response and further fine-tuning the vehicle’s anti-lock braking system (ABS).

Driving comfort was another focal point with redesigned eco-friendly front seats to substantially increase driver and passenger comfort and improve overall driving experience. The Escape-Mariner engineering team also strove to reduce noise intrusion with features such as a new underhood air induction system for V-6 models.

 

On hybrid models, a new brake system also provides a more seamless transition from electric regenerative braking to traditional braking, with a new pedal sensor for better driver feedback. A new damper system has been developed to reduce feedback and vibrations.

[FordFanForEver]

In addition the biggest supposed benefit is that it is much less expensive to manufacture and Ford will be developing their own transmission.

 

[StevenCaylor]

Anyone know if they switched to an electric A/C compressor? That was a big disadvantage on Ford's 1st gen hybrid.

[GaryG]

Anyone know if they switched to an electric A/C compressor? That was a big disadvantage on Ford's 1st gen hybrid.

 

According to everything I've read, Ford hasn't change to an electric driven A/C compressor.

[Walt]

Interesting Walt, I didn't see that comment, do you have a link?

 

"Ford said overall fuel efficiency for the gasoline versions of the 2009 Escape and Mariner would increase by 1 mpg compared with the 2008 versions, which get between 18 mpg in the city and 26 mpg on the highway depending on the engine configuration.

 

The fuel economy on the 2009 hybrid versions of the Escape and Mariner are not expected to change by any substantial amount, Ford said."

 

Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22769573/

 

EDIT: Found quote and link

Edited May 21, 2008 by Walt

[Walt]

Everything I read in this article says the '09 FEH/MMH was redesigned for improved efficiency. Does anyone see any changes that would not improve MPG?

 

I just read that article, and find the comments rather ambiguous. For example,

 

" It also allows the manufacturer to use a smaller, lighter battery: the 275V, 5.5Ah, 27 kW peak power NiMH battery pack used in the new Fusion/Milan hybrids features improved cell chemistry, and is more compact, for example, than the 2005-2008 Escape hybrid’s 330V battery pack."

 

If the 2009 FEH/MMH was getting the 275v too, when didn't it specifically mention it? Add that to the fact that the Ordering Guide still states 330v, IMHO, the 2009 FEH/MMH is not getting these hardware improvements.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Walt

[GaryG]

I just read that article, and find the comments rather ambiguous. For example,

 

" It also allows the manufacturer to use a smaller, lighter battery: the 275V, 5.5Ah, 27 kW peak power NiMH battery pack used in the new Fusion/Milan hybrids features improved cell chemistry, and is more compact, for example, than the 2005-2008 Escape hybrid’s 330V battery pack."

 

If the 2009 FEH/MMH was getting the 275v too, when didn't it specifically mention it? Add that to the fact that the Ordering Guide still states 330v, IMHO, the 2009 FEH/MMH is not getting these hardware improvements.

 

Hi Walt

 

That quote about the "smaller, lighter battery: the 275V, 5.5Ah, 27 kW peak power NiMH battery pack" had me worried till I've seen a few more articles and specs on the FEH/MMH keeping the 330V battery for the '09. I've read many misquotes on what Ford is putting out, but I have every reason to believe the FEH/MMH will eat my '05 FEH for lunch as far as MPG. I've stated if Ford changed to the new VVC, EV speed would increase, the HV battery would run cooler and longer and Ford could remove the aux A/C to save money. Without the aux A/C, my MPG will increase here in FL. When new test drives start revealing an increase in EV speeds over the '08 models, hold onto to your new order confirmations boys and girls!

 

The news is starting to arrive!!!!!!

 

"In the hybrid the same improvements that were noticeable when I drove the prototype plug-in Escape in New York in March have been applied to the 2009 production models. The automatic starts and stops are now much smoother than before without the shudder that can be felt in many earlier hybrid models. Additionally, if the battery state of charge is sufficient the Escape can now go up to 40mph in EV mode compared to under 30mph previously."

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/15/ab...-escape-hybrid/

 

Just wait till the new '09 FEH/MMH is broke-in, these babies will do 50mph in EV! At any rate, shutdown in EV for coasting in "N" should be available right off the lot new!

 

GaryG

[Walt]

"... Additionally, if the battery state of charge is sufficient the Escape can now go up to 40mph in EV mode compared to under 30mph previously."

 

I read that too, but I also know that my '07 can go up to 40mph in EV mode too.

 

So, did something really change? I mean, other than Ford is now actually willing to claim up to 40 instead of just 25 mph?

[Walt]

... and Ford could remove the aux A/C to save money. Without the aux A/C, my MPG will increase here in FL.

 

I wonder if Ford will start to offer the Tailer Tow package on the hybrids?

 

The "official" reason they haven't, is that the aux A/C lines use the same rear body "hole" as the trailer wiring. If there is no aux A/C anymore, then that "hole" is available for the trailer wiring on the hybrid too.

[GaryG]

I read that too, but I also know that my '07 can go up to 40mph in EV mode too.

 

So, did something really change? I mean, other than Ford is now actually willing to claim up to 40 instead of just 25 mph?

 

Ford has always published that the FEH/MMH could run 25mph in EV, but when I first got my '05 FEH, I could get it up to ~33mph in EV. As it broke-in, I could get it up to 38mph. Today, I can set the cruise control with no headwind at 35mph in EV. With a tailwind, I can set the cruise at 38mph and get up 39mph for short distances in EV.

 

If this guy couldn't get a new '08 to 30mph in EV, he shouldn't have come close to 40mph in a new '09 unless there was some drastic changes to the eCVT. This guy got behind the wheel of Ford's new test plug-in FEH and compared it to the production '09 FEH he tested. The plug-in has a longer lasting lithium battery, but we don't know if they changed to the new VVC. We know the plug-in has a much higher EV speed than the '05-'08 FEH/MMH models. No article or test drive of a production FEH/MMH has ever claimed any EV speed near 40mph since the '05 FEH was tested. This is great news and means the '09 is the next generation FEH/MMH just like the '04 Toyota Prius when it changed to the newer VVC.

 

As far as the Tow Package, if the wiring was the problem on the FEH/MMH, why does Ford exclude it on the new 2.5L higher HP gas Escape this year? The '09 gas Escape doesn't have the Aux A/C either, yet it's available in a manual or 6 speed automatic. Only the V6 gas Escapes can be ordered with the Tow Package.

[Transpower]

I read that too, but I also know that my '07 can go up to 40mph in EV mode too.

 

So, did something really change? I mean, other than Ford is now actually willing to claim up to 40 instead of just 25 mph?

 

 

I can stay in electric mode up to 40 mph (going downhill) in my 2008 MMH...so I think the new claim is mere marketing. (The same thing goes for the change in roll bar specs--I remember reading that the 2008 MMH had a "new and better" roll bar.) Ford/Mercury is not stating that there is any net change in EPA fuel economy. The major change for 2009 is the addition of stability control with rear drum brakes; the minor change is the addition of Sync. The price increase for these is, apparently, approx. $2000. When is the plug-in Hybrid coming?

[GaryG]

Another article that says the '09 FEH can do about 60km/h (40mph) in electric:

 

The Escape Hybrid's e-CVT transaxle, which utilizes two electric motor/generator units remains largely unchanged as does the 330-volt nickel metal hydride battery pack, but the Escape Hybrid is now programmed to operate on electric only at speeds up to about 60 km/h.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/080521.htm