Where;s my CAT

[Furious1Auto]

Undoubtedly the best diesel on the market. More power than a Navistar, Cummins, and Duramax. In Fords interest of cutting full dependency they need to offer more than one diesel powerplant option. Caterpillars also already have a following in every facet of commercial industry. From transportation, farming, and even construction. These workers are already using CAT products, knowing their power and reliability are an existing customer base! Ford please make it a reality!

[NLPRacing]

BlueII has said that there are Ford developed 6.7L prototypes being tested under the "Scorpion" name to replace the current Powerstroke. If you really want a CAT Diesel in a Ford, you could get one in an F650 or F750 w/an Alison automatic.

[Furious1Auto]

BlueII has said that there are Ford developed 6.7L prototypes being tested under the "Scorpion" name to replace the current Powerstroke. If you really want a CAT Diesel in a Ford, you could get one in an F650 or F750 w/an Alison automatic.

I know, I saw them at the auto show. I don't have a use for a truck any bigger than a F-350 though. I want on in a F-150. and they need diversity. Putting a CAT in a Ford will draw new business. Hell a CAT motor would sell the POS Tundra's just because of their reputation!

[7Mary3]

Caterpillar doesn't make any diesels light enough for a pickup, and they have stated they have no interest in entering that market.

[Furious1Auto]

Caterpillar doesn't make any diesels light enough for a pickup, and they have stated they have no interest in entering that market.

Your killing me! :rip: $ talks I can't help but think that if their where some guarantee of volume it could persuade them to reconsider. At least in the design capacity and an allowance to use their badging! I read on another thread that we picked up a executive from Caterpillar and got excited!

Edited July 31, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

This is a little more like I was thinking!

Edited July 31, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[7Mary3]

You need to remember that Caterpillar's primary business is heavy equipment, truck engines are just a side line. There are big changes coming in truck manufacturing, and the biggest is something called verticle integration. What this means is truck manufacturers will have proprietary engines, not a wide choice of vendor supplied engines as in the past. Detroit Diesel now belongs to Freightliner, and doesn't sell engines outside of the Freightliner group. International is joining up with MAN to produce their own heavy duty diesels, and PACCAR (Kenworth and Peterbilt) are working closely with Cummins on medium and heavy diesel engine projects. Volvo ownes Mack, and they both allready make their own engines. Now, think about where that all leaves Caterpillar. Not a surprise that there are rumors that Caterpillar may exit the truck engine business.

[Furious1Auto]

You need to remember that Caterpillar's primary business is heavy equipment, truck engines are just a side line. There are big changes coming in truck manufacturing, and the biggest is something called verticle integration. What this means is truck manufacturers will have proprietary engines, not a wide choice of vendor supplied engines as in the past. Detroit Diesel now belongs to Freightliner, and doesn't sell engines outside of the Freightliner group. International is joining up with MAN to produce their own heavy duty diesels, and PACCAR (Kenworth and Peterbilt) are working closely with Cummins on medium and heavy diesel engine projects. Volvo ownes Mack, and they both allready make their own engines. Now, think about where that all leaves Caterpillar. Not a surprise that there are rumors that Caterpillar may exit the truck engine business.

They sell more then a few truck engines. Nearly every make and model semi I've driven has had a CAT. Ken, Pete, Volvo, Ford, Freightliner, International, the only exception was the Mack I drove and 1 International. CAT still designs the most powerful and reliable diesel with it's fuel economy not far behind Detroit. It they are being forced out of the truck market it would seem the perfect union. They have workers to employ and we need their branding on our fender! I'm sorry but International are dog motors, they don't pull as hard nor get the fuel economy. Take that and couple it with the fact that they don't want to cover their end of the warranty costs! And the biggest one, they cut production leaving us high and dry. Every trucker knows a Cat will blow away a Cummins and out of the gate we would 1 up Crystlers Dodge diesel! The last Semi I drove was a Ford 9000 5 axel dump and it ran like a raped ape, I could grab gears walking up a 7% grade with 80,000 lbs. or 40 ton in the box. It had a 425 horse CAT under the hood and was geared right!!

Edited August 1, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[BW-Blue]

As I understand it, Caterpillar refuses to make a diesel engine cheap enough for Ford. Caterpillar prides itself on high technology and high durability. Making a cheap passenger car diesel (F-150s and 250s are passenger cars to real heavy duty machine makers) would require too many concessions and would jeopardize reliability.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Undoubtedly the best diesel on the market. More power than a Navistar, Cummins, and Duramax. In Fords interest of cutting full dependency they need to offer more than one diesel powerplant option. Caterpillars also already have a following in every facet of commercial industry. From transportation, farming, and even construction. These workers are already using CAT products, knowing their power and reliability are an existing customer base! Ford please make it a reality!

 

Audi might disagree with you on that?

 

http://www.coolsupercars.com/2009-audi-r8-tdi/

 

http://seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2007-Aud...Mans-Winner.htm

Edited August 1, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds

[Furious1Auto]

Audi might disagree with you on that?

 

http://www.coolsupercars.com/2009-audi-r8-tdi/

 

http://seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2007-Aud...Mans-Winner.htm

Perception sells, Ask the base customers of the F-series trucks what CAT's reputation is, then ask them what they think of Audi and their snobby owners. What I'm getting at is that the same people that buy the F-series are the same that hold CAT equipment to high esteem, and loathe imports. They are the same market! If we cater to this customer base we can reaffirm loyalties and gain market share! I'm assuming the reason that I'm not getting a better response on this thread is because truck drivers and construction workers don't have time to play on the internet! Maybe some test marketing surveys are in order to check feasibility. You guys are on the outside because you work in a much different industry, and these workers can't afford to live in your neighborhoods. But they still buy trucks for work and play!

Edited August 1, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[falconman13]

I doubt CAT's motors would come close to meeting the new EPA regs, and I highly doubt they would want to re-engineer everything to make them do so

[Furious1Auto]

I doubt CAT's motors would come close to meeting the new EPA regs, and I highly doubt they would want to re-engineer everything to make them do so

They redesign motors as often as we do our product line up, that's how they make their money.. All they have to do is design a smaller CID engine to fit our applications. Money talks, If we gave them a volume guaranty that might motivate them to do so! the question is price, delivery, quantity and feasibility!

Edited August 1, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Perception sells, Ask the base customers of the F-series trucks what CAT's reputation is, then ask them what they think of Audi and their snobby owners. What I'm getting at is that the same people that buy the F-series are the same that hold CAT equipment to high esteem, and loathe imports. athey are the same market! If we cater to this customer base we can reaffirm loyalties and gain market share! I'm assuming the reason that I'm not getting a better response on this thread is because truck drivers and construction workers don't have time to play on the internet! Maybe some test marketing surveys are in order to check feasibility. You guys are on the outside because you work in a much different industry, and these workers can't afford to live in your neighborhoods. But they still buy trucks for work and play!

I love the Classic F-Series Trucks just like the Classic shaped Mustang it's a market leading world best seller in its class, funny that two Classic shapes two World leaders for Ford. Wish we could have them in Europe.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds

[jd-ford-hd]

Furious is dead nuts accurate!! The Navistar just never had what it took for the long haul in the dependability department. Cat would be the best choice for Ford to break the tie. V8 diesels in any brand and any size have been historically unsuccessful and most were best put to use in the marine industry (AS ANCHORS !!). For every long running, trouble free V8 diesel you show me, I will show you 5 that are "blowed". All manufacturers considered. I agree that if Ford whistled the Cat would come.

[Furious1Auto]

Furious is dead nuts accurate!! The Navistar just never had what it took for the long haul in the dependability department. Cat would be the best choice for Ford to break the tie. V8 diesels in any brand and any size have been historically unsuccessful and most were best put to use in the marine industry (AS ANCHORS !!). For every long running, trouble free V8 diesel you show me, I will show you 5 that are "blowed". All manufacturers considered. I agree that if Ford whistled the Cat would come.

Ford is at least at present the only auto manufacturer that can entice then with a volume guarantee of any sort, because after three decades the F-150 is still the best selling truck! If Toyota got to them first it could really hurt the us and GM. Toyota is already desperately tiring to enter the market and, I'm afraid that we would lose some loyal customers just to own a CAT powered pick-up.

[theoldwizard]

Where have you guys been ? The following has been on this board many times.

 

Ford is hard at work on a new, smaller diesel for the F150. The code name is Griffin and it will be 4.4L and derived for the European Puma/Lion diesels. Besides going in the F150, it is likely to show up in the Explorer, Expedition, E series. There is some talk that the F250/E250 will offer both the Griffin and the Scorpion engines.

 

Ford want to "control its own destiny" by not contracting out any new truck diesel engines. Also this maximizes its profits ! :shades:

 

Last I heard, engine Job #1 for the Griffin is Fall of '09, making it a 2010.5 option !

[Furious1Auto]

Where have you guys been ? The following has been on this board many times.

 

Ford is hard at work on a new, smaller diesel for the F150. The code name is Griffin and it will be 4.4L and derived for the European Puma/Lion diesels. Besides going in the F150, it is likely to show up in the Explorer, Expedition, E series. There is some talk that the F250/E250 will offer both the Griffin and the Scorpion engines.

 

Ford want to "control its own destiny" by not contracting out any new truck diesel engines. Also this maximizes its profits ! :shades:

 

Last I heard, engine Job #1 for the Griffin is Fall of '09, making it a 2010.5 option !

I've read the posts and it's lame, and that's how it will be viewed by the public. First off who wants to take a chance on an experimental diesel designed and built by a company that doesn't have any experience building them. To think that Ford could come out of the gate and design and build an engine of even equal quality to CAT products is ridiculous. At a time where the market is unstable I would rather bet on a sure thing. I'm a staunch opponent of imports, but if the Tundra had a CAT then I'm afraid I would buy one.

[suv_guy_19]

I've read the posts and it's lame, and that's how it will be viewed by the public. First off who wants to take a chance on an experimental diesel designed and built by a company that doesn't have any experience building them. To think that Ford could come out of the gate and design and build an engine of even equal quality to CAT products is ridiculous. At a time where the market is unstable I would rather bet on a sure thing. I'm a staunch opponent of imports, but if the Tundra had a CAT then I'm afraid I would buy one.

 

 

ford builds diesel engines, just not here....

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I've read the posts and it's lame, and that's how it will be viewed by the public. First off who wants to take a chance on an experimental diesel designed and built by a company that doesn't have any experience building them. To think that Ford could come out of the gate and design and build an engine of even equal quality to CAT products is ridiculous. At a time where the market is unstable I would rather bet on a sure thing. I'm a staunch opponent of imports, but if the Tundra had a CAT then I'm afraid I would buy one.

 

Peugeot build the best quality diesel engines in the World they have totally bomb proof reliability second to none, and last forever. Ford of Europe have been involved in development with Peugeot for a number of years, so Ford already know a lot about building a good diesels

 

Ford already build the best diesels in the world.

http://www.jonfry.com/2005/10/fords-dagenh...celebrates.html

 

Even big ears like them

http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/prince...lity-uk/329023/

Edited August 2, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds

[Furious1Auto]

Peugeot build the best quality diesel engines in the World they have totally bomb proof reliability second to none, and last forever. Ford of Europe have been involved in development with Peugeot for a number of years, so Ford already know a lot about building a good diesels

 

Ford already build the best diesels in the world.

http://www.jonfry.com/2005/10/fords-dagenh...celebrates.html

 

Even big ears like them

http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/prince...lity-uk/329023/

Yeh, and CAT builds the best diesel sold in the US. Ford is selling a product to grass roots truck buyers who could give a sh-t what Prince Charles drives!

Edited August 2, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[mizzitch]

Cat does not build their own small diesel engines though. They buy Perkins small diesels for asphalt rollers etc, so Cat does not have the experience in consumer size vehicles.

 

I vote for Ford to make their own diesel in the 150 and the Super Duty Trucks. If Ford could build a diesel that is as reliable as the 4.6, 5.4, and V10 - it would be better good for their reliability image and should be cost effective. I know the Range Rovers now have a diesel option that sounds like it could work in the 150, Exped, and Navigator.

[Furious1Auto]

Cat does not build their own small diesel engines though. They buy Perkins small diesels for asphalt rollers etc, so Cat does not have the experience in consumer size vehicles.

 

I vote for Ford to make their own diesel in the 150 and the Super Duty Trucks. If Ford could build a diesel that is as reliable as the 4.6, 5.4, and V10 - it would be better good for their reliability image and should be cost effective. I know the Range Rovers now have a diesel option that sounds like it could work in the 150, Exped, and Navigator.

Yes they do! Cat goes small with ACERT: new common rail C4.4 diesel is smallest ACERT engine; ratings from 75 to 150 bhp.(DIESEL ENGINES) (Article)

Thomson Gale, Feb 2007

 

 

 

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This 906 word article is taken from the 01 February 2007 edition of Diesel Progress North American Edition.

 

Abstract:

 

While much of the industry attention has been focused on the 2007 truck diesel emissions regulations, an equally compelling scenario is beginning to be played out in the smaller off-highway diesel markets.

 

Nonroad diesels from 100 to 175 hp began their Tier 3 regulations on Jan. 1. This will be followed closely by Tier 3 for 50 to 100 hp diesels next year and the first of a two-phase Tier 4 standard starting in 2008 for 20 to 75 hp diesels, along with Tier 4 for diesels under 11 hp. The EU's standards lead or parallel EPA's standards in this range as well.

 

As a result, Caterpillar has migrated its ACERT technology to ever-smaller off-highway engines. The latest is the recently introduced C4.4, available with power outputs from 75 to 150 bhp at 2200 rpm. The 4.4 L, four-cylinder, inline, direct-injection C4.4 thus becomes the smallest Cat diesel currently available with ACERT technology.

 

Overview

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Caterpillar is the world's largest manufacturer of medium speed engines, as well as one of the world's<br>largest manufacturers of high speed diesel engines. Engines Home Page

 

Caterpillar is the world's largest manufacturer of medium speed engines, as well as one of the world's largest manufacturers of high speed diesel engines, with ratings available from 54 to 13,600 hp (40 to 10,000 kW).

 

Caterpillar engines and engine systems provide power to the world. Our engines provide power to trucks, ships and boats, our own construction and mining machines, and much more. Electrical power systems supply both primary and standby power for a variety of uses -- like off-shore oil rigs, huge mines in remote deserts or mountain ranges, entire communities in areas not close to a utility power grid, hospitals, schools, factories, airports and office buildings.

 

With over 500 engine spec sheets online, we offer more real info than everyone else put

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1890. Benjamin Holt and Daniel Best experimented with various forms of steam tractors for use in farming. History

 

Circa

 

1890. Benjamin Holt and Daniel Best experimented with various forms of steam tractors for use in farming. They did so separately, with separate companies.

 

1904. Holt's first steam track-type tractor.

 

1906. Holt's first gas track-type tractor.

 

1915. Holt "Caterpillar®" track-type tractors are used by the Allies in World War I.

 

1925. The Holt Manufacturing Company and the C. L. Best Tractor Co. merge to form Caterpillar Tractor Co.

 

1931. The first Diesel Sixty Tractor rolled off the assembly line in East Peoria, Illinois, with a new efficient source of power for track-type tractors.

 

1940. The Caterpillar product line now included motor graders, blade graders, elevating graders, terracers and electrical generating sets.

 

1942. Caterpillar track-type tractors, motor graders, generators sets and a special engine for the M4 tank are used by the United States in its war effort.

 

1950. Caterpillar Tractor Co. Ltd. in Great Britain is established, the first of many overseas operations created to help manage foreign exchange shortages, tariffs, import controls and better serve customers around the world.

 

1953. In 1931, the company created a separate engine sales group to market diesel engines to other equipment manufacturers. This group was replaced in 1953 with a separate sales and marketing division to better serve the needs of a broad range of engine customers. Engine sales now account for approximately one-third of the company's total sales and revenues.

 

1963. Caterpillar and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. form one of the first joint ventures in Japan to include partial U.S. ownership. Caterpillar Mitsubishi Ltd. started production in 1965, has been renamed Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi Ltd., and is now the No. 2 maker of construction and mining equipment in Japan.

 

1981-83. The worldwide recession took its toll on Caterpillar, costing the company the equivalent of $1 million a day and forcing it to dramatically reduce employment.

 

1983. Caterpillar Leasing Company is expanded to offer equipment financing options to its customers worldwide and is renamed Caterpillar Financial Services Corporation.

 

1985-present. The product line continued to diversify to meet a variety of customer needs. More than 300 products are now offered, more than double the figure in 1981.

 

1986. The Caterpillar Tractor Co. changes its name to Caterpillar Inc. - a more accurate reflection of the enterprise's growing diversity.

 

1987. A $1.8 billion plant modernization program was launched to streamline the manufacturing process.

 

1990. The company decentralized its structure, reorganizing into business units responsible for return on assets and customer satisfaction.

 

1997. The company continued to expand, acquiring the U.K.-based Perkins Engines. With the addition of Germany's MaK Motoren the previous year, Caterpillar becomes the world leader in diesel engine manufacturing.

 

1998. The world's largest off-highway truck - the 797 - makes its debut at the Cat Proving Ground in Arizona.

 

1999. Caterpillar unveils new line of compact construction equipment at CONEXPO, world's largest construction show, in response to changing customer needs for smaller, more versatile construction equipment.

 

2000. Caterpillar celebrates its 75th anniversary.

 

2001. Caterpillar is the first company to globally launch 6 Sigma and deliver first-year benefits in excess of implementation costs.

 

2003. Caterpillar becomes the first engine manufacturer to offer a complete line of 2004 model year clean diesel engines fully compliant and certified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Caterpillar's breakthrough emissions control technology, known as ACERT®, is designed to comply with EPA standards without sacrificing performance, reliability or fuel efficiency.

 

2005. Demonstrating a pledge to sustainable development, Caterpillar responded to a number of tragedies around the world, including the Asian Tsunami disaster, hurricanes along the U.S. Gulf Coast and earthquakes in South Asia. In the face of each of these challenges, employees, dealers and corporate leaders alike joined together to build a promise of hope and growth for all those affected by donating machinery, money and resources for relief and recovery efforts.

 

2006. Benjamin Holt, one of Caterpillar Inc.'s founding fathers and designer of the first track-type tractor was recognized for his ingenuity and entrepreneurial spirit with an induction into the National Inventors Hall of Fame.

 

2006. Caterpillar Inc. subsidiary Caterpillar Logistics Services, Inc. (Cat Logistics) opens a new parts distribution center in the Lingang Industrial Area in Shanghai.

 

2006. Caterpillar launched a revised and updated Worldwide Code of Conduct and Enterprise Strategy. Serving new markets and new customers in new ways, Caterpillar welcomed the opportunity to experience unchartered growth across all business ventures.

Article Managed File Web Link Custom Form Wide

Edited August 2, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[7Mary3]

You know, Cat's ACERT engines have a rather spotty reliability record at this point.

[Furious1Auto]

You know, Cat's ACERT engines have a rather spotty reliability record at this point.

If you can't post some factual stats or a link then I'll have to discount that statement! I for one have driven many trucks with CAT engines and Eaton tranny"s and have been thoroughly impressed. I'll give you an example. I was once loaded at the same place as another driver in Wyoming we where both driving Freightliners with Eaton 13 double over tranny's, and 3/70 rears. Each was loaded to roughly 80,000 lbs. and within 300 lbs. of each other. We even both had the same 500 horse power rating, only mine was a CAT and his was a Detroit. we both hit the base of a seven % grade at the same time and about 1mile up he had to start dropping gears. I pulled away and when I reached the top he was a spec in my west coast mirror! The fact is Ford can not trust Navistar, which makes less powerful motors than Cummins anyway. So then, Ford needs to work towards becoming independent. So if Ford builds their own diesels then people will be skidish until they've proven their worth. One hiccup could cost them dearly, especially after we've already had 1 work stoppage from Navistar. On the other hand if they could make a 5 year agreement with CAT to design and build engines for them till they have a solid working prototype of their own to market. Hell If CAT wants out Ford could buy the facility where the motor was built and take on it's employees if they wanted. Caterpillar workers are also all UAW. The advantage to CAT motors is, that they already have a huge following with the same people that buy our trucks the same as Harley Davidson. It's also likely to steel GM's truck customers!

Edited August 3, 2007 by Furious1Auto