Furious1Auto Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Our international rep made a mess of our local before he went to the international so he won't do us any good but alot of us would still like to grab him by the throat!!! and throw his back on the floor to live with the mess he got us into!! I really wish we could vote in/out the international reps!! That would definetly make the union work alot harder!! They don't have to live with the decisions they make and neither does the local (that is until we kick them back to the floor) The person said that "WE NEED TO TAKE BACK OUR UNION" was correct. Our contract has been open since the day it was signed!! Getting rid of the trades would make the unions jobs alot easier and we can't allow that to happen!! Trades taking production jobs? NO!! Departmental seniority? NO!! Outside contractors taking the trades jobs? NO!! That would be me! I don't understand why their are not regular elections at the international level for our delegates to choose the executive board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawselectrician Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 That would be me! I don't understand why their are not regular elections at the international level for our delegates to choose the executive board! probably because not enough people demanded that we get to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawselectrician Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Our international rep made a mess of our local before he went to the international so he won't do us any good but alot of us would still like to grab him by the throat!!! and throw his back on the floor to live with the mess he got us into!! I really wish we could vote in/out the international reps!! That would definetly make the union work alot harder!! They don't have to live with the decisions they make and neither does the local (that is until we kick them back to the floor) The person said that "WE NEED TO TAKE BACK OUR UNION" was correct. Our contract has been open since the day it was signed!! Getting rid of the trades would make the unions jobs alot easier and we can't allow that to happen!! Trades taking production jobs? NO!! Departmental seniority? NO!! Outside contractors taking the trades jobs? NO!! i was kinda refering to further up the food chain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 probably because not enough people demanded that we get to vote. Your delegates that are elected to go to the Las Vegas convention get to vote on international issues and candidates, but their aren't regular elections without a referendum, or a retirement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatdown Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Your delegates that are elected to go to the Las Vegas convention get to vote on international issues and candidates, but their aren't regular elections without a referendum, or a retirement! Have you ever been to one?? Yes your delegates get to vote but usually their is only one person to vote for. Just make sure you get your goodie bag after you vote. Can you say Yea or Ney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
228electrician Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) Some how I doubt the utilization of maintenance for production is that detrimental to their staying open! Although I don't feel bad that their being made to work. Their the highest paid in their field, even union hall card holder don't get company paid benefits (with the exception of their pension), they have to pay their own medical and don't work as steadily. They also aren't called to work until the previous trade has the job ready! Example, you won't see a electrician payed while waiting for a millwright to hang a fan so that the can wire it! You also won't find an electrician who can't adjust their own fan without a millwright!! hmm, reality check, outside shops pay their trades 20-30 bucks an hour, while the same shops pay there line workers, machine operators, and hilo drivers anywhere from 8 - 15 bucks an hour. if you think i shoud get the average for my trade on the outside, you should get the average also. good point you got there. no other shop pays there trades only 10% more. usually it 50 - 60% more. so when ford corrects this pay problem, trades will be making 25 - 30 and you will be making 10 - 12. this is not BS, this is fact. you should support trades as it has a direct effect on how the company sees and pays you. i do not understand why you would support trades doing line work, all that does is raise the education bar on each job and cut regular workers jobs. think if they have a layoff in the future that it will be the trade guy next to you that gets the boot? it will be the regular guy that gets the boot during cuts. Edited September 1, 2007 by 228electrician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) hmm, reality check, outside shops pay their trades 20-30 bucks an hour, while the same shops pay there line workers, machine operators, and hilo drivers anywhere from 8 - 15 bucks an hour. if you think i shoud get the average for my trade on the outside, you should get the average also. good point you got there. no other shop pays there trades only 10% more. usually it 50 - 60% more. so when ford corrects this pay problem, trades will be making 25 - 30 and you will be making 10 - 12. this is not BS, this is fact. you should support trades as it has a direct effect on how the company sees and pays you. i do not understand why you would support trades doing line work, all that does is raise the education bar on each job and cut regular workers jobs. think if they have a layoff in the future that it will be the trade guy next to you that gets the boot? it will be the regular guy that gets the boot during cuts. And such is life! I doubt you will ever make more than you do now! I can also guarantee I will never work for $12.00 an hour! I got paid by the hour based on the equipment I operated for the day on the outside! $15.00 for a 5 axle dump, $17.00 for the Dozer, $18.75 for the carry-all, and $20.00 an hour for the excavator! So their goes you pay theory, second I don't support you guys doing base operations! But you do have to admit that the classification restrictions on trade work are ridiculous! I took me an electrician, a millwright, and 4 weeks to hang a fan! If the product stays country for any length of time I can guarentee you that maintenance will be outsourced before final assembly! The line work is the core of operations! And we out number you! The reason I made these remarks is in response to this feeling of superiority you guys have over line workers! Aren't we in the same union? I don't wish for us to fight internally! Now we need to focus on standing together! Edited September 1, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 so when ford corrects this pay problem, trades will be making 25 - 30 and you will be making 10 - 12. this is not BS, this is fact. Uh, lets get real. Production will not be dropped to 10-12. Wait and see. This will not materialize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 hmm, reality check, outside shops pay their trades 20-30 bucks an hour, while the same shops pay there line workers, machine operators, and hilo drivers anywhere from 8 - 15 bucks an hour. if you think i shoud get the average for my trade on the outside, you should get the average also. good point you got there. no other shop pays there trades only 10% more. usually it 50 - 60% more. so when ford corrects this pay problem, trades will be making 25 - 30 and you will be making 10 - 12. this is not BS, this is fact. you should support trades as it has a direct effect on how the company sees and pays you. i do not understand why you would support trades doing line work, all that does is raise the education bar on each job and cut regular workers jobs. think if they have a layoff in the future that it will be the trade guy next to you that gets the boot? it will be the regular guy that gets the boot during cuts. Yeah right, if you're so sure you'll get 20 to 30 bucks elsewhere then why is the voluntary attrition rate for trades people at any of the big 3 less than 1 percent? If someone could get $5 an hour more elsewhere, I'm sure more than zero percent would be voluntarily leaving. You go get in line at some ibew house and you'll find out things are a lot different then you're saying. Oh wait you can't, because you're only an electrician within a ford facility, once you leave that facility you're just a guy who works at ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpleman Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 (edited) hmm, reality check, outside shops pay their trades 20-30 bucks an hour, while the same shops pay there line workers, machine operators, and hilo drivers anywhere from 8 - 15 bucks an hour. if you think i shoud get the average for my trade on the outside, you should get the average also. good point you got there. no other shop pays there trades only 10% more. usually it 50 - 60% more. so when ford corrects this pay problem, trades will be making 25 - 30 and you will be making 10 - 12. this is not BS, this is fact. you should support trades as it has a direct effect on how the company sees and pays you. i do not understand why you would support trades doing line work, all that does is raise the education bar on each job and cut regular workers jobs. think if they have a layoff in the future that it will be the trade guy next to you that gets the boot? it will be the regular guy that gets the boot during cuts. That's not true with all big business. I recently worked for Anheuser-Busch and their pay system gives operators almost equal pay with skilled trades. (Within a dollar a hour.) Edited September 1, 2007 by Simpleman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpleman Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Yeah right, if you're so sure you'll get 20 to 30 bucks elsewhere then why is the voluntary attrition rate for trades people at any of the big 3 less than 1 percent? If someone could get $5 an hour more elsewhere, I'm sure more than zero percent would be voluntarily leaving. You go get in line at some ibew house and you'll find out things are a lot different then you're saying. Oh wait you can't, because you're only an electrician within a ford facility, once you leave that facility you're just a guy who works at ford. If you are an electrician, you can definately get 20-30 dollars an hour working outside the Ford system, you just got to look for it. The IBEW local here is currently 21.50 under this contract. Depending on what local you travel to, you could make upwards of 45 to 50 dollars an hour. Detroit locals are at approx. 30-35 dollars an hour. I'm sure it's not the type of electrical work most Ford electricians are willing to do, but it's out there. Me personally, I now belong to the ILA(International Longshoremen Association) doing crane maintenance. Once I accrue enough experience, top pay is around 30 dollars an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 If you are an electrician, you can definately get 20-30 dollars an hour working outside the Ford system, you just got to look for it. The IBEW local here is currently 21.50 under this contract. Depending on what local you travel to, you could make upwards of 45 to 50 dollars an hour. Detroit locals are at approx. 30-35 dollars an hour. I'm sure it's not the type of electrical work most Ford electricians are willing to do, but it's out there. Me personally, I now belong to the ILA(International Longshoremen Association) doing crane maintenance. Once I accrue enough experience, top pay is around 30 dollars an hour. I don't doubt you for a moment. But you need to be a member of the ibew, which requires certifications/training that a majority of these folks don't have. Some do, from prior times, but it's rare. My brother was/is a ford electrician and had a big time reality check when he started to explore opportunities outside of ford. Those locals paying 45 to 50 an hour aren't providing any benefits right? The other side of ibew gigs is that if you show up late or don't show up ALL the time you won't be seeing much work coming your way. Those folks don't have temps working stand-by to fill in and businesses will start looking elsewhere if the local doesn't provide dependable workers. The title "skilled trades" stays behind when you leave ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 I don't doubt you for a moment. But you need to be a member of the ibew, which requires certifications/training that a majority of these folks don't have. Some do, from prior times, but it's rare. My brother was/is a ford electrician and had a big time reality check when he started to explore opportunities outside of ford. Those locals paying 45 to 50 an hour aren't providing any benefits right? The other side of ibew gigs is that if you show up late or don't show up ALL the time you won't be seeing much work coming your way. Those folks don't have temps working stand-by to fill in and businesses will start looking elsewhere if the local doesn't provide dependable workers. The title "skilled trades" stays behind when you leave ford. I'm sure that the IBEW will recognize your training and experience and give you a journeyman's card. But if a union worker doesn't carry their weight or shows up late the company giving them work will send them back to the hall to wait for work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedope Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Those congracters are doing it for alot less money than what youre getting paid.I'd be happy about what I am getting paid and do what I am told to keep that wage.Now if it goes south after negotiations and we take a huge pay cut and said contractors are making more than you and I,I will help you burn it down! I beg to differ with you. 12 yrs. ago, I was one of those contractors that did work at LEP. When I got in the truck to head to the Ford plant, the ticker started at $78.00 an hour. It is up to $90.00+ now. I'm certain that with this economy we are living in at the moment, that cost will soon be going up again. It's not about doing it cheaper on the hour. It's about Ford cutting overhead costs. They will only be paying benefits when the contractors are on site. Just remember, they can do the same thing with production. All they have to do is bring in more of those so called temps. Then they only have to pay them when they need them. Who needs those costly UAW production workers. We can use temps. and pay them a lower wage and no benefits. When things get slow, we can get rid of them. REMEMBER- WHEN YOU TURN YOUR BACK WHEN YOUR FELLOW WORKER IS GETTING THE BOOT, YOU MAY BE IN THE SAME BENT OVER POSITION YOURSELF SOMEDAY. YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW. IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT EVEN THE TRADES THAT YOU DON'T LIKE, WHO WILL SUPPORT YOU WHEN YOU NEED IT? THE BOOT FITTS YOUR BACKSIDE ALSO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfinger4 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 It's not about doing it cheaper on the hour. It's about Ford cutting overhead costs. They will only be paying benefits when the contractors are on site. Just remember, they can do the same thing with production. All they have to do is bring in more of those so called temps. EXACTLY RIGHT!!! now all management cares about are "Harbor Report hours" they will use trades as much as they can to do production work and temps to get these hours down to Toyotas level. Then they can tell Wall St hey we are competitive with the best, never mind we can't run anymore....thats another story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 There is no need to bicker we're all on the same team, we need to stand together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted September 5, 2007 Author Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) I beg to differ with you. 12 yrs. ago, I was one of those contractors that did work at LEP. When I got in the truck to head to the Ford plant, the ticker started at $78.00 an hour. It is up to $90.00+ now. I'm certain that with this economy we are living in at the moment, that cost will soon be going up again. It's not about doing it cheaper on the hour. It's about Ford cutting overhead costs. They will only be paying benefits when the contractors are on site. Just remember, they can do the same thing with production. All they have to do is bring in more of those so called temps. Then they only have to pay them when they need them. Who needs those costly UAW production workers. We can use temps. and pay them a lower wage and no benefits. When things get slow, we can get rid of them. REMEMBER- WHEN YOU TURN YOUR BACK WHEN YOUR FELLOW WORKER IS GETTING THE BOOT, YOU MAY BE IN THE SAME BENT OVER POSITION YOURSELF SOMEDAY. YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW. IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT EVEN THE TRADES THAT YOU DON'T LIKE, WHO WILL SUPPORT YOU WHEN YOU NEED IT? THE BOOT FITTS YOUR BACKSIDE ALSO. You are right we need to stick together when it comes to this upcoming contract. Whether or not you like the trades or production workers we are all here for the same purpose!! We cannot stand for outside contractors coming in and taking our jobs. If they take trades work today, tommorrow they will take production jobs!! This IMT program will eliminate the trades. If we allow them to do this then tommorrow they will come after production! REMEMBER THAT!! Edited September 5, 2007 by lepskilledtrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) You are right we need to stick together when it comes to this upcoming contract. Whether or not you like the trades or production workers we are all here for the same purpose!! We cannot stand for outside contractors coming in and taking our jobs. If they take trades work today, tommorrow they will take production jobs!! This IMT program will eliminate the trades. If we allow them to do this then tommorrow they will come after production! REMEMBER THAT!! I think that the only way you guys will be able to stop the program that you are already in is to have a work stoppage once a tentative contract is in your hands! I prey you guys have good local leadership! Sadly it's a local fight and since it doesn't affect our plant! If we took action with you then it would be considered a sympathy strike, and we could be terminated for striking with you! I wish you guys the best! Edited September 6, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
228electrician Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 And such is life! I doubt you will ever make more than you do now! I can also guarantee I will never work for $12.00 an hour! I got paid by the hour based on the equipment I operated for the day on the outside! $15.00 for a 5 axle dump, $17.00 for the Dozer, $18.75 for the carry-all, and $20.00 an hour for the excavator! So their goes you pay theory, second I don't support you guys doing base operations! But you do have to admit that the classification restrictions on trade work are ridiculous! I took me an electrician, a millwright, and 4 weeks to hang a fan! If the product stays country for any length of time I can guarentee you that maintenance will be outsourced before final assembly! The line work is the core of operations! And we out number you! The reason I made these remarks is in response to this feeling of superiority you guys have over line workers! Aren't we in the same union? I don't wish for us to fight internally! Now we need to focus on standing together! your fan issue is a management issue, they must line up trades for that job since putting someone on a fan means no one is available if the line goes down. not defending what goes on at your plant, just there is more to it than what appears. we are thin at our plant and if we stop during the week to hang a fan we have a line or 2 and a few machines down during that time and the fan is really a low proirity compared to product flow. fans at our plant must be hardpiped and no hanging extension cords, that means ordering parts because we no longer carry all parts needed to save money. and because of osha rules there must be 2 guys from each trade there (one guy in the air and a ground man) and most of our areas have only 2 guys for each trade at the most and cover more machines. and 4 weeks is how long it takes most of the time for orders to get processed and materials to arrive. as for your 12 - 20 an hour job you can go back to, thats still not 27 an hour like most production gets. i do work on the outside also since i am licensed to the state and a contractor. and i do make more an hour outside of here but right now i only work once in awhlie since new construction is down. and i am not hungry to advertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) your fan issue is a management issue, they must line up trades for that job since putting someone on a fan means no one is available if the line goes down. not defending what goes on at your plant, just there is more to it than what appears. we are thin at our plant and if we stop during the week to hang a fan we have a line or 2 and a few machines down during that time and the fan is really a low proirity compared to product flow. fans at our plant must be hardpiped and no hanging extension cords, that means ordering parts because we no longer carry all parts needed to save money. and because of osha rules there must be 2 guys from each trade there (one guy in the air and a ground man) and most of our areas have only 2 guys for each trade at the most and cover more machines. and 4 weeks is how long it takes most of the time for orders to get processed and materials to arrive. as for your 12 - 20 an hour job you can go back to, thats still not 27 an hour like most production gets. i do work on the outside also since i am licensed to the state and a contractor. and i do make more an hour outside of here but right now i only work once in awhlie since new construction is down. and i am not hungry to advertise. When new housing is down excavation holds steady being victim only to the weather. We go from residential to government work, highway and bridge construction! Your right it's not $27 an hour and I do value my job, but I will never work in the $8-$15.00 an hour range as was suggested earlier! Lastly I just used my fan as an example, the guy next to us waited 1.25 years and umpteen trips to medical before being able to get a balancer hung on his job! If you wish I can give more ridiculous examples? Edited September 8, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 AS ALOT OF YOU MAY HAVE HEARD RUMORS ABOUT THE NEW IMT PROGRAM THAT A FEW OF THE FORD PLANTS IN THE U.S. HAVE CHOSEN TO BE A PILOT PROGRAM {LIMA OHIO ENGINE PLANT FOR ONE}tHIS WHERE THE UNUSED SKILLED TRADES ARE PLACE IN THE MACHING DEPTMENTS TO OPERATE MACHINES AND ALSO WORK AS THEIR TRADES (ELECTRICAL OR MACHINE REPAIR} TO FIX THE MACHINES IN THEIR DEPARTMENT! (PULLING DOUBLE DUTY!!) WE SKILLED TRADES AT LIMA DID NOT VOLUNTEER FOR THIS OUR UNION DID THIS ON THEIR OWN!! I GUESS THEY SEEM TO FORGET WHO THEY ARE WORKIG FOR!! wE WILL SURLEY LET THEM KNOW COME ELECTION TIME FOR SURE!! BUT WITHOUT SAYING ANYMORE ABOUT THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IS THIS PROGRAM WILL VIRTUAL ELIMINATE SKILLED TRADES AS WE KNOW IT. OUR UNION HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THE COMPANY DOES NOT WANT ANY (OR VERY FEW STRICTLY SKILLED TRADES AT FORD ) THEY ARE PUTTING THEM TO WORK OPERATING MACHINES IN THE MACHINING DEPARTMENTS . OUR PLANT USED TO HAVE 450- 500 TRADES WORKING AS TRADES. BY 2008 IF THIS IMT PROGRAM PASSES WE WILL HAVE ABOUT 40 TRADES LEFT WORKING IN JUST THEIR TRADES. ALL THE REST WILL BE WORKING IN THE MACHING DEPARTMENTS RUNNING AND FIXING THEIR OWN MACHINES IN THEIR DEPARTMENTS. aLONG WITH THIS COMES DEPARTMENTLY SENIORITY THAT IS ONLY IS GOOD IN YOUR DEPARTMENT!!! YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUMP TO ANOTHER DEPARTMENT REGARDLESS OF YOUR SENIORITY THIS WILL DISPLACE ALOT OF THE AEO THAT PRESENTLY RUN MACHINING AND FORCE THEM TO TAKE ASSEMBLY JOBS!! ALL THE FUTURE WORK FOR THE TRADES WE OUR TOLD WILL BE CONTRACTED OUT (NEW CONSTRUCTION' TEAROUTS ETC.) WE AT LEP ALMOST BUT ARE NOT FULLY DOING THIS YET AND HAVE ENCOUNTERED MANY MANY PROBLEMS THAT OUR UNION DOESN'T HAVE ANSWERS YET BUT THEY EXPECT US TO VOTE ON THIS IN A FEW WEEKS!! WE AS TRADES BETTER STICK TOGETHER AND VOTE NO NO NO OR WE CAN BE SURE YOU WON'T LIKE THE OUTCOME!!!for some reason we can't get toi all the replies on this thread is someone deleting them?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 THE NEW IMT PROGRAM THAT A FEW OF THE FORD PLANTS IN THE U.S. HAVE CHOSEN TO BE A PILOT PROGRAM {LIMA OHIO ENGINE PLANT FOR ONE}t Can you inform us to the other plants that are piloting this program? Curious to know........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scmustang Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Can you inform us to the other plants that are piloting this program? Curious to know........... i am curious to know in which decade did lep have nearly 500 trades? the facility did have almost 4800 employees in 1979 when they produced a v8/the i6 and the ohc 4cyl. the reason for piloting a program is to work out the details on the plant floor. a number of trades(toomakers/cutter grind/pipefitters)with low seniority were in the gen pool. this pilot program gave them the opportunity to continue working as a ford employee as those trades were deemed no longer necessary. the data proved that it was inefficient to continue to pay employees 8-12 hrs daily while receiving 2-4 hrs of work. the local at lep has all of the data for anyone to see and the company has produced quite a convincing case. once again it is a brave new world--change or die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 i am curious to know in which decade did lep have nearly 500 trades? the facility did have almost 4800 employees in 1979 when they produced a v8/the i6 and the ohc 4cyl. the reason for piloting a program is to work out the details on the plant floor. a number of trades(toomakers/cutter grind/pipefitters)with low seniority were in the gen pool. this pilot program gave them the opportunity to continue working as a ford employee as those trades were deemed no longer necessary. the data proved that it was inefficient to continue to pay employees 8-12 hrs daily while receiving 2-4 hrs of work. the local at lep has all of the data for anyone to see and the company has produced quite a convincing case. once again it is a brave new world--change or die. In 1997 we had 200+ just machine repair and electricians not to mention the 80+ toolmakers but you got your info a little messed up the IMT program does not include millwrights,cuttergrind and only 1 or 2 pipefitters and toolmakers " IT is mostly made up of machine repair and electricians and no other trades. The only problem is the remaining trades (el and mr)are swamped so you really can't say they are not neccessary!! I wonder if that convincing case was one like the toolmakers provided to the company that proved in black and white that they could do the jobs cheaper then hiring them out. But guess what thatwas ignored!! We went from 80 toolmakers down to about 10. We never got our contractual right to go back to production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Can you inform us to the other plants that are piloting this program? Curious to know........... There is suppose to be 3 plants that are pilots with Lima ,Ohio being the lead plant. From what I understand the other plants have a misconception of how this was suppose to work. Our local has also led us astray of how they said it was going to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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