Forgotten Ford Could Surge

[suv_guy_19]

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2007/09/17/f...7markets15.html

 

Who would think, a positive article.

Edited September 17, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[suv_guy_19]

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB119003...glenews_barrons

 

And another.

[Ralph Greene]

If Ford can cut their overhead to about where the competition is, I expect a $30 stock again in a few years. Otherwise, I expect ford to gradually wither away.

 

But I still have a decent size position in the stock. Mainly, I think they have no choice but to eventually sever Union ties....and move more production South. Maybe way south.

[wildosvt]

If Ford can cut their overhead to about where the competition is..

 

 

Too late. Allan is already overpaid compared to the import execs.

[suv_guy_19]

Too late. Allan is already overpaid compared to the import execs.

 

 

He is not, his salary is only about 2 million per year.

[Pioneer]

He is not, his salary is only about 2 million per year.

 

 

Compared to a Japanese executive, yes he is.

[Pioneer]

He is not, his salary is only about 2 million per year.

 

http://www.cab.latech.edu/~mkroll/510_pape...l_05/Group6.pdf

 

CEOs total pay packages have continued to spiral upward over the years, even though thousands of average employees lose their jobs, corporate profits fall, and shareholders lose money. An executive compensation package is typically comprised of total base salary, yearly bonuses and benefits, stock-options, and anticipated value of long-term projects. Base salary is generally a fixed component that is the value an organization attributes to the position, and is usually relevant to the labor market, but may vary based on performance. Chief Executive Officers are continually reaping larger and larger benefits each year. Over the past two years the average compensation among the top 200 companies has increases thirty-seven percent. At the end of 2003 the average CEO compensation was almost ten million dollars, excluding profits made on stock.

In 2004, the average American CEO was paid $10 million, as reported in The Wall Street Journal's annual analysis of the 350 largest public companies (WSJ 2005). This is a huge 14.5 percent increase over the annual CEO compensation in 2003. American CEO pay currently dwarfs foreign CEO pay. German CEOs make 13 times more than the average German manufacturing employee an in Japan, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio is just 11-to-1 (Greenfield 1999).

[RichardJensen]

Gee. And if only you worked at the Toyota plant down in Georgetown, Kentucky, all your problems would be over.

 

Alan Mulally gets about $.30 from every car Ford sells. $.25 if you count Mazda. It's hardly tearing apart their mark-up.

[Pioneer]

Alan Mulally gets about $.30 from every car Ford sells. $.25 if you count Mazda. It's hardly tearing apart their mark-up.

So that would make the average Ford workers share about what? A penny or less per unit?

 

Hardly a problem, right?

[RichardJensen]

So that would make the average Ford workers share about what? A penny or less per unit?

 

Hardly a problem, right?

It's not a problem that bellyaching on the internet is going to solve. It's not a problem that going on strike is going to solve, and it's not a problem that being mad is going to solve.

 

And in the grand scheme of things, it's not much of a problem at all.

 

What, I would like to know, is behind this idea that money is a suitable measure of either a man's worth or his happiness?

 

You: Pioneer--do you think that if you made twice as much money in a year you would be twice as happy or twice as valuable? Would you have 48 hours in a day instead of 24? How exactly would you benefit from a 100% pay raise?

 

Frankly, you'd figure out some way to spend most of it, and in the end you'd be the same guy you are right now. Neither happier, nor more miserable (hopefully) and about the same value to the rest of mankind (I'll leave it up to you to figure that value out).

 

Doesn't really matter what you get paid.

 

---

 

As far as the 'fat cats' not having to take pay cuts, well, Ford family trust fund looks pretty thin these days, dividend payments have been suspended on 'B' shares as well, so they may not be moving into a homeless shelter any time soon, but they're not living as high off the hog as they used to.

 

Mulally probably gets paid about what he got paid at Boeing, but he's having to work a lot harder for it, and on it goes.

Edited September 17, 2007 by RichardJensen

[Mark8LSC CE0464]

If Alan saves the company, he is worth a billion dollars a year.

 

If you want a job that pays as well as Alan's, go get it. If you do not have the talent to command a salary as big as his, keep quiet! If the company goes away, all the line workers will have nothing. If Alan turns it around, everyone will win. I say if he puts up, the naysayers should shut up!

Edited September 18, 2007 by Mark8LSC CE0464

[ViperPilot]

If Alan saves the company, he is worth a billion dollars a year.

 

If you want a job that pays as well as Alan's, go get it. If you do not have the talent to command a salary as big as his, keep quiet! If the company goes away, all the line workers will have nothing. If Alan turns it around, everyone will win. I say if he puts up, the naysayers should shut up!

I say we all take a week off and see how many cars Alan churns out buy himself.

 

Last I checked we were all in it together. Alan isn't going to turn around squat by himself. I'm not asking for 2 million dollars a year; but whittling away at my pay crying poverty is rather facetious when you're jetting home to Florida every weekend.

[suv_guy_19]

If Alan saves the company, he is worth a billion dollars a year.

 

If you want a job that pays as well as Alan's, go get it. If you do not have the talent to command a salary as big as his, keep quiet! If the company goes away, all the line workers will have nothing. If Alan turns it around, everyone will win. I say if he puts up, the naysayers should shut up!

 

 

Very well said, people do not need to become jealous because they don't make as much money. I think and hope he is worth every penny.

Edited September 18, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[suv_guy_19]

I say we all take a week off and see how many cars Alan churns out buy himself.

 

Last I checked we were all in it together. Alan isn't going to turn around squat by himself. I'm not asking for 2 million dollars a year; but whittling away at my pay crying poverty is rather facetious when you're jetting home to Florida every weekend.

 

 

I say we find out how you could run a multinational company, or how many cars you build without upper management directing you. Your a team as you said. Some members of the team get paid more and are above others.

[taxman100]

There is no question he is overpaid, but most American companies dramatically overpay their executives.

 

I also love this mentality that one guy alone is going to save Ford Motor Company, or any other large organization for that matter. Of course, if he fails, it won't be his fault, at least based upon the deferred compensation and repriced stock options the board will continue to shower him with.

 

The CEO of Honda makes how much?

[suv_guy_19]

"German CEOs make 13 times more than the average German manufacturing employee an in Japan, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio is just 11-to-1 (Greenfield 1999)."

 

So, Mulally makes abot 30 to 1. Big deal, not much in the grand scheme of things.

[LincolnFan]

Am I the only one who didn't read the topic and started looking at the big Canadia signature?

[suv_guy_19]

Am I the only one who didn't read the topic and started looking at the big Canadia signature?

 

 

Probably, but only because I just put it there.

[OAC_Sparky]

"German CEOs make 13 times more than the average German manufacturing employee an in Japan, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio is just 11-to-1 (Greenfield 1999)."

 

So, Mulally makes abot 30 to 1. Big deal, not much in the grand scheme of things.

If it was just Alan, it wouldn't be a big deal. But it's Alan, Mark, Bill, Jac's golden parachute, and 50 other executives too. Personally, if the company is being well-run and the company can afford it, more power to them. I don't care; I'm not one of these non-auto-sector wannabes pointing at how much I think they're overpaid. I really don't give a shit. But swinging the axe at my paycheck while keeping yours intact is quite another thing. I sacrifice my life and my time away from my family just as much as they do (if not more). I expect to be compensated fairly.

 

But hey, I'll take a shot at the CEO spot, if the CEO wants to become an electrician. I think I can get up to speed in the 5 years it'll take him to serve his apprenticeship.

[RichardJensen]

Just remember what Shakespeare said: "Heavy is the head that wears the crown"

 

It's not all its cracked up to be.

 

Getting $2M a year and not having to do a thing to earn it is one thing. Being a CEO of a company in the midst of a major restructuring is another.

 

I swear you guys act like Mulally crawls out of bed at the crack of noon, and wanders down to the family theatre where servants hand feed him bonbons all afternoon long while he watches Three Stooges shorts and laughs at all the little people that have to go to work and pay taxes and so forth.

[suv_guy_19]

Just remember what Shakespeare said: "Heavy is the head that wears the crown"

 

It's not all its cracked up to be.

 

Getting $2M a year and not having to do a thing to earn it is one thing. Being a CEO of a company in the midst of a major restructuring is another.

 

I swear you guys act like Mulally crawls out of bed at the crack of noon, and wanders down to the family theatre where servants hand feed him bonbons all afternoon long while he watches Three Stooges shorts and laughs at all the little people that have to go to work and pay taxes and so forth.

 

 

People in general do not understand the responsibility that rests with corporate executves or politicians. They seem to, for some reason, think that they have easy jobs that are all fun and games. In my opinion Mulally gets a good amount for what he has to do and politicians do not make enough money. Not even close for the resposibility that they bear.

[Pioneer]

If Alan saves the company, he is worth a billion dollars a year.

 

I like that statement. If. If.....IF IF IF.

 

IF he saves the company, give him the big bucks. Until them, give him basic pay. 36 million before he proves himself, or at least until he reverses the monetary and market-share loses, is overpaid. That is like paying the contractor in full for building your house, when he has yet to pour the foundation.

[OAC_Sparky]

Just remember what Shakespeare said: "Heavy is the head that wears the crown"

 

It's not all its cracked up to be.

 

Getting $2M a year and not having to do a thing to earn it is one thing. Being a CEO of a company in the midst of a major restructuring is another.

 

I swear you guys act like Mulally crawls out of bed at the crack of noon, and wanders down to the family theatre where servants hand feed him bonbons all afternoon long while he watches Three Stooges shorts and laughs at all the little people that have to go to work and pay taxes and so forth.

People in general do not understand the responsibility that rests with corporate executves or politicians. They seem to, for some reason, think that they have easy jobs that are all fun and games. In my opinion Mulally gets a good amount for what he has to do and politicians do not make enough money. Not even close for the resposibility that they bear.

 

I never claimed it was easy. But by the same token, there are many who deserve more compensation for what they do. My job duties at times can be just as stressful; when the line is down, Ford is losing $10,000 a minute in lost profit, and the pressure is on me to get it fixed. I work 60 hours a week 47 weeks a year. Every weekend. Every holiday weekend. On top of that on my own time I attend 2 college nightschool courses a week (for another 8 hours) to keep up with the latest technology (It's been 13 years since I've gone a year without taking some sort of course). And my compensation is 1/15 of that of the CEO.

 

I'm not complaining (even though it may sound like it), because it is solely my choice. I do what I do to provide for my family. Just as it was his decision to take a job as CEO.

 

I can accept that compensation is based on "perceived" relative importance. But is the autoworker that tightens a brake bolt truly any less important than a CEO? To the company he might not be, but I assure you to the customer and his family he is. And while nobody expects him to make $2 million, he should make a fair wage.

 

So all the yap yap yap about heavy crowns and such is just hot air. Having a competent worker tightening brake bolts or an electrician that can get the line going or a supervisor that adequately fulfills his role is in many ways just as important to the company's bottom line as the CEO.

 

Funny thing is, here I am after 19 years serving the company; Jac the Knife received more in his severence package than I would make in 3 lifetimes of 7x12s. All for running the company into the ground and ultimately putting thousands of workers out of work and affecting the fortunes of many more.

 

So forgive me if I would like to see some results before we can determine whether $2 Million is fair compensation or not.

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited September 18, 2007 by OAC_Sparky

[jpd80]

The man has gone from an $11 million/year salary at Boeing to a $2 Million at Ford.

 

That would be like someone going from $133K/year with another $133K in a pension fund

to taking a job with a salary of $24K/year and losing all former pension money.

To compensate, they receive the following:

- $90K signing bonus

- $133K in compensation for the money you lost in the previous pension plan.

- $90K in Stock options that may or may not be any good

- $1200 in company discount coupons

- $66 to relocate your family

In 4 months they receive $319K and everyone says payment is excessive.

 

Next year, they're back on $24K/year.

Don't look so rosey now, eh?

Bet they wished they had stayed with the first job and pension plan

Bet Alan Mulally does too.

Edited September 18, 2007 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

he should make a fair wage.

Is that what this is about? You don't think you're making a fair wage? Or you don't think the guy on the line is making a fair wage?

 

Well, try this on for size: Try getting that kind of pay for that kind of work anywhere else..

 

'Cause if you can't, then you're probably making a more than fair wage, at least as far as how the -economy- has chosen to value your services.

 

Heck, your brake bolt tightening whatever guy probably makes more than most public school teachers, and they're practically required to carry master's degrees these days. How fair is that?

 

I mean if you're going to talk about the 'fairness' of compensation, well, you're opening up a whole can of worms there. Why should plastic surgeons make more money than GPs? Why should professional athletes make so much money? Why should people work 40 hours a week and still live below the poverty line?

 

Let's just try and make an issue of the whole capitalist system, if we're going to talk about fair wages. There's no definition of what's fair, anyway. The only thing that's certain is that the whole damn world is unfair.