Turn Out the lights

[scottyboy]

With Corporate Greed,lack of giving the public what they want ,AND a union who wants it all at all cost from the company,the US auto industry is done.

 

Blame free trade,Blame the company, Blame the union,Blame the government, Blame the consumer, Does not matter, the world has changed and GM,Ford,Chrysler, and the UAW had better change too ( if it's not to late).

 

As a consumer i believe that the auto workers work hard and do a great job. BUT how much sympathy can we have when we here about (job banks) where people don't work for a year and still get paid,because it's in the contract ? Or they want Job Protections. The average JOE goes to work and can be let go at any moment,so they work hard and hopefully they are respected and rewarded for thier efforts.

 

I love my Two new fords, but i can always buy a Toyota next time, if Ford is not around

[Justhefacts]

With Corporate Greed,lack of giving the public what they want ,AND a union who wants it all at all cost from the company,the US auto industry is done.

 

Blame free trade,Blame the company, Blame the union,Blame the government, Blame the consumer, Does not matter, the world has changed and GM,Ford,Chrysler, and the UAW had better change too ( if it's not to late).

 

As a consumer i believe that the auto workers work hard and do a great job. BUT how much sympathy can we have when we here about (job banks) where people don't work for a year and still get paid,because it's in the contract ? Or they want Job Protections. The average JOE goes to work and can be let go at any moment,so they work hard and hopefully they are respected and rewarded for thier efforts.

 

I love my Two new fords, but i can always buy a Toyota next time, if Ford is not around

 

Hey Jackass go troll somewhere else!! I doubt you can afford a car, most likely you get your rides from giving *^ $@'s to passing striking UAW GM WORKERS. Now go brush your teeth your breath STINKS!!!!

[scottyboy]

Hey Jackass go troll somewhere else!! I doubt you can afford a car, most likely you get your rides from giving *^ $@'s to passing striking UAW GM WORKERS. Now go brush your teeth your breath STINKS!!!!

 

Typical Grade School Reponse.. Enjoy your $200 per week, If The GM Boys don't use it all up

[lquidspine]

With Corporate Greed,lack of giving the public what they want ,AND a union who wants it all at all cost from the company,the US auto industry is done.

 

Blame free trade,Blame the company, Blame the union,Blame the government, Blame the consumer, Does not matter, the world has changed and GM,Ford,Chrysler, and the UAW had better change too ( if it's not to late).

 

As a consumer i believe that the auto workers work hard and do a great job. BUT how much sympathy can we have when we here about (job banks) where people don't work for a year and still get paid,because it's in the contract ? Or they want Job Protections. The average JOE goes to work and can be let go at any moment,so they work hard and hopefully they are respected and rewarded for thier efforts.

 

I love my Two new fords, but i can always buy a Toyota next time, if Ford is not around

 

 

1) Union workers dont want It all, I think most simply want a secure job that we can depend on weekly making the company money simply means we get money.

 

2)Toyota ,Honda ,Kia and Hundai(sp) offer similar wages and benefits and do well from all reports so i would not say the US auto industry is dead.

 

3)The "job banks" were won back in the 80's with the conssesion of the union in terms of wage loss to secure and hold accountable for the companies missmanagment of there workforce.

 

 

Same goes for the retiree health care and pension the companies missmanaged *cough* underfunded obligations they agreed to in terms of the national contract with regards to retiree pensions and health care ,now they want the current workers and retirees to pay for contractual obligations that many workers with 20+ years have already paid for.

[partsisparts]

1) Union workers dont want It all, I think most simply want a secure job that we can depend on weekly making the company money simply means we get money.

 

2)Toyota ,Honda ,Kia and Hundai(sp) offer similar wages and benefits and do well from all reports so i would not say the US auto industry is dead.

 

3)The "job banks" were won back in the 80's with the conssesion of the union in terms of wage loss to secure and hold accountable for the companies missmanagment of there workforce.

Same goes for the retiree health care and pension the companies missmanaged *cough* underfunded obligations they agreed to in terms of the national contract with regards to retiree pensions and health care ,now they want the current workers and retirees to pay for contractual obligations that many workers with 20+ years have already paid for.

 

 

The jobs bank was put in place so the manufacturers could begin to use robots in assembly. The UAW knew that jobs will be lost due to the robots so they came up with the jobs bank. 20 years ago nobody would ever have thought the US auto industry would be in the dire straits they are in, so the companies agreed. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH MISMANGEMENT. Sorry you cannot blame management on this one.

Edited September 25, 2007 by partsisparts

[whereswaldo]

The jobs bank was put in place so the manufacturers could begin to use robots in assembly. The UAW knew that jobs will be lost due to the robots so they came up with the jobs bank. 20 years ago nobody would ever have thought the US auto industry would be in the dire straits they are in, so the companies agreed. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH MISMANGEMENT. Sorry you cannot blame management on this one.

No it wasnt so management could bring in robots! The union/mangement agreed to it . They both knew it was meant to deter not just mass robots but arbitrary layoffs. It was hoped that management would operate more efficiently with the labor force that they had.

This is moot anyway. GEN will be changed.

[dukka]

Hey Jackass go troll somewhere else!! I doubt you can afford a car, most likely you get your rides from giving *^ $@'s to passing striking UAW GM WORKERS. Now go brush your teeth your breath STINKS!!!!

 

Hey "idiot assembly line working who can't put down the news paper and pick up a broom" I believe Scottboy as a non-automotive worker and Ford Buyer just summed up what the outside public thinks of your ass. Now put you smoke out and get back to work.

[zoomerjrt]

the biggest problem is Ford needs to design cars the public want, bottom line!!!!! If the mass American liked what the company was designing Ford would still be at the top!!!! Selling cars equals jobs!!!!

[Dadzee]

Have to agree with zoomerjrt on this.

 

I know both the company and much of the public are disappointed that many of our retirees are no longer dying within 18 months of their retirement, and find it unfortunate that part of corporate America is left to fulfill their promises.

 

Poor big three, too bad they cannot pull of some kind of United, ENRON, or other corporate scam and get out of this.

 

Oh wait, that is exactly what they are doing. Run a company (Ford) with 23 BILLION in the cash drawer, circa 1999, completely into the ground in under a decade, diversify to the point of idiocy, completely abandon the sedan market for the lucrative SUV market to reap short term gains because you are too damn shortsighted to see oil (I know small factor where auto industry is concerned right?) might just take a jump in price one day, and when everything goes into the shitter, blame it on the damn overpaid workers.

 

Sorry big three but, fuck you.

 

What a pity that many of the have nots would rather more join their ranks than raise themselves up. What legacy would they like to leave for their children?

 

They can walk the dogs and make the beds and flip the burgers of the corporate elite, because with the mentality of people like these organized labor is doomed.

[MelanieHasA Mustang]

With Corporate Greed,lack of giving the public what they want ,AND a union who wants it all at all cost from the company,the US auto industry is done.

 

Blame free trade,Blame the company, Blame the union,Blame the government, Blame the consumer, Does not matter, the world has changed and GM,Ford,Chrysler, and the UAW had better change too ( if it's not to late).

 

As a consumer i believe that the auto workers work hard and do a great job. BUT how much sympathy can we have when we here about (job banks) where people don't work for a year and still get paid,because it's in the contract ? Or they want Job Protections. The average JOE goes to work and can be let go at any moment,so they work hard and hopefully they are respected and rewarded for thier efforts.

 

I love my Two new fords, but i can always buy a Toyota next time, if Ford is not around

 

Bravo sir! I finely written and well thought out observation.

[OAC_Sparky]

Watch out, Scottyboy. Sounds like Mel is looking for her next meal ticket. Better strap that 2x4 across your ass; she's given more rides than a New York subway.

[MelanieHasA Mustang]

Never mind this little titmouse, Messr. Scotty. Poor OAC Sparky in fact is bored with his drab existence and frustrated that he has never been able to satisfy a woman. To overcome his shortcomings, he attempts to be clever on internet chat boards with those of a higher quality than he.

 

As you can see, his efforts are in vain.

[JustAnotherAssembler]

Hey Jackass go troll somewhere else!! I doubt you can afford a car, most likely you get your rides from giving *^ $@'s to passing striking UAW GM WORKERS. Now go brush your teeth your breath STINKS!!!!

 

Typical. You sound just like about 75% of the people I used to work with at Ford. This is the crap that makes non-auto workers think less of the union, etc. Great job!

[pointy]

Why is so bad for U.S. autoworkers to get paid a nice decent wage? Why is it so wrong for there to be job security for jobs here in the United States? Why don't people complain about how much the European autoworker makes and about how much paid vacation they get? What's so wrong with being a blue-collar man in this country? Why does every one think that manufacturing jobs are for mindless idiots? Maybe just because they don't want to brown-nose anything that wears a tie, and step all over another human so they can 'get to the top'.

Why is it OK for a company to close shops, in the country that made it the great money making machine it is, to open shops that the folks that work there can't even afford to buy what they make and charge the people, in the country that made them what they are, the same price as if it was built here? (follow that?)

[OAC_Sparky]

Never mind this little titmouse, Messr. Scotty. Poor OAC Sparky in fact is bored with his drab existence and frustrated that he has never been able to satisfy a woman. To overcome his shortcomings, he attempts to be clever on internet chat boards with those of a higher quality than he.

 

As you can see, his efforts are in vain.

Unlike you, my spouse sleeps in my bed, and not with the babysitter. So far my track record is better than yours, hon. Edited September 25, 2007 by OAC_Sparky

[Len_A]

Why is so bad for U.S. autoworkers to get paid a nice decent wage? Why is it so wrong for there to be job security for jobs here in the United States? Why don't people complain about how much the European autoworker makes and about how much paid vacation they get? What's so wrong with being a blue-collar man in this country? Why does every one think that manufacturing jobs are for mindless idiots? Maybe just because they don't want to brown-nose anything that wears a tie, and step all over another human so they can 'get to the top'.

Why is it OK for a company to close shops, in the country that made it the great money making machine it is, to open shops that the folks that work there can't even afford to buy what they make and charge the people, in the country that made them what they are, the same price as if it was built here? (follow that?)

I'll answer your question as well as I think I know how to, with what I think the answer is: 1) Besides the fact that manufacturing is getting off-shored, automation and productivity gains have, coupled with off-shoring, drastically reduced manufacturing jobs to roughly around ten percent of all jobs, from sixty percent of all jobs in the late fifties/early sixties. With the drastic increase in white collar employment has come a huge increase in things like at-will employment, annual changes in medical benefits (usually for the worse for the employee), cost-of-living raises replaced by 100% merit based increases (and all the politics that goes with that), and defined benefit pensions completely replaced by 401K only retirement plans. Zip job security, tons of job related stress (not saying blue collar workers don't have stress too, because I know you do), in jobs that, in most cases, are legally impossible for a union to organize. Are a lot of the people jealous of UAW Big Three wages and benefits? You bet your ass they are. Speaking as a former Local 600 member, who is now one of those millions of white collar workers, I may not, because of my family be a UAW hater, but I hear how vehement their hatred is. Like it or not, we needs these people as customers, or none of us have jobs. It doesn't matter one Gawd damn bit how illegitimate their opinions are - you can't challenge these gas-bags and then ask them to spend their money on your employers products, because you need your job and your benefits, because they will feel extremely justified in telling you to go fuck yourself. Bottom-line is that there are a lot of people who have been getting fucked over by their employers on retirement, pay, and/or medical coverage, and the last damn thing they want to hear is that the employees of some of the companies who make one of the most expensive products they will ever buy, are fighting for job security, pay, and/or benefits that they themselves don't have and can't have.

 

2) No one of these people complain about European or even Japanese autoworkers pay and benefits because, to be blunt, they ain't here in the USA, so they don't care. It's your pay, benefits, and union protection that they're envious of, and feel that their purchase (of a Big 3 car/truck) would support something they either can't have for themselves, or just don't believe in. Doesn't matter that their purchase of a Bimmer or a Benz not only supports European auto unions and autoworkers, but also European national health care (something else that most white collar Americans also don't believe in. Doesn't matter, because a) that's over there (in Europe) and b ) they get to screw you here in the USA/Canada.

 

It's not going to change either. Not just "it's not going to change" anytime soon. It's "it's not going to change" ever. With half the cars and trucks being sold here now NOT being made by the Big Three, and many of those companies having assembly plant, and some engine and transmission plants, here in the USA/Canada, and all of them non-union and having a better quality reputation (deserved or not) and now it's becoming PC (politically correct) to bad mouth the unions and say you're not buying GM, Ford, or Chrysler because of the unions.

 

It sucks, it's unfair, and it's probably 99% wrong, but if you talk back, if you fight back, the only result that I guarantee will happen is that they'll buy even more from the transplants and imports, and fuck all of us that depend on the Detroit automakers.

[DTP Body Door Hang]

I'll answer your question as well as I think I know how to, with what I think the answer is: 1) Besides the fact that manufacturing is getting off-shored, automation and productivity gains have, coupled with off-shoring, drastically reduced manufacturing jobs to roughly around ten percent of all jobs, from sixty percent of all jobs in the late fifties/early sixties. With the drastic increase in white collar employment has come a huge increase in things like at-will employment, annual changes in medical benefits (usually for the worse for the employee), cost-of-living raises replaced by 100% merit based increases (and all the politics that goes with that), and defined benefit pensions completely replaced by 401K only retirement plans. Zip job security, tons of job related stress (not saying blue collar workers don't have stress too, because I know you do), in jobs that, in most cases, are legally impossible for a union to organize. Are a lot of the people jealous of UAW Big Three wages and benefits? You bet your ass they are. Speaking as a former Local 600 member, who is now one of those millions of white collar workers, I may not, because of my family be a UAW hater, but I hear how vehement their hatred is. Like it or not, we needs these people as customers, or none of us have jobs. It doesn't matter one Gawd damn bit how illegitimate their opinions are - you can't challenge these gas-bags and then ask them to spend their money on your employers products, because you need your job and your benefits, because they will feel extremely justified in telling you to go fuck yourself. Bottom-line is that there are a lot of people who have been getting fucked over by their employers on retirement, pay, and/or medical coverage, and the last damn thing they want to hear is that the employees of some of the companies who make one of the most expensive products they will ever buy, are fighting for job security, pay, and/or benefits that they themselves don't have and can't have.

 

2) No one of these people complain about European or even Japanese autoworkers pay and benefits because, to be blunt, they ain't here in the USA, so they don't care. It's your pay, benefits, and union protection that they're envious of, and feel that their purchase (of a Big 3 car/truck) would support something they either can't have for themselves, or just don't believe in. Doesn't matter that their purchase of a Bimmer or a Benz not only supports European auto unions and autoworkers, but also European national health care (something else that most white collar Americans also don't believe in. Doesn't matter, because a) that's over there (in Europe) and b ) they get to screw you here in the USA/Canada.

 

It's not going to change either. Not just "it's not going to change" anytime soon. It's "it's not going to change" ever. With half the cars and trucks being sold here now NOT being made by the Big Three, and many of those companies having assembly plant, and some engine and transmission plants, here in the USA/Canada, and all of them non-union and having a better quality reputation (deserved or not) and now it's becoming PC (politically correct) to bad mouth the unions and say you're not buying GM, Ford, or Chrysler because of the unions.

 

It sucks, it's unfair, and it's probably 99% wrong, but if you talk back, if you fight back, the only result that I guarantee will happen is that they'll buy even more from the transplants and imports, and fuck all of us that depend on the Detroit automakers.

 

That was very well said. Unfortunately the truth sucks for us.

[macattack]

With Corporate Greed,lack of giving the public what they want ,AND a union who wants it all at all cost from the company,the US auto industry is done.

 

Blame free trade,Blame the company, Blame the union,Blame the government, Blame the consumer, Does not matter, the world has changed and GM,Ford,Chrysler, and the UAW had better change too ( if it's not to late).

 

As a consumer i believe that the auto workers work hard and do a great job. BUT how much sympathy can we have when we here about (job banks) where people don't work for a year and still get paid,because it's in the contract ? Or they want Job Protections. The average JOE goes to work and can be let go at any moment,so they work hard and hopefully they are respected and rewarded for thier efforts.

 

I love my Two new fords, but i can always buy a Toyota next time, if Ford is not around

 

SO BUY IT AND GET OFF THIS FORUM..........the people on this forum have enough on their minds without hearing you sputter about those of us who build through hard work a product called FORD and all you can harp on is the negative of our company. Yes, you are a consumer or so you say...so go ahead buy a toyota and leave this forum to those to whom it was meant...if our jobs depend on the rantings of a lowlife like you...one who likes kick people when their down then good riddence. Now please...take a hike.

[scottyboy]

SO BUY IT AND GET OFF THIS FORUM..........the people on this forum have enough on their minds without hearing you sputter about those of us who build through hard work a product called FORD and all you can harp on is the negative of our company. Yes, you are a consumer or so you say...so go ahead buy a toyota and leave this forum to those to whom it was meant...if our jobs depend on the rantings of a lowlife like you...one who likes kick people when their down then good riddence. Now please...take a hike.

 

I'll assume that your just in the minority of hard working union people. What i mean is that the majority just want to do a good days work and get paid a good days pay in return. And provide for thier family

 

You being in the minority just want the union to get you more for less,until the system breaks,which it has. There is not right to entitelment YOU NEED TO EARN IT AND WORK !!!

 

Get off your Ass ,put away the 12 pack,and work.. IF you don't like what you do, do something else. BUT you may have to actually stand and do it for yourself,and not hide behind a contract

 

Whats the definition of a mushroom ?

[MSP Worker]

These people are entitled to their opinions. We can not attack them. I disagree with most of their remarks, but when we start calling them names, we drop to a lower level. Let them say what they want, most have no clue what we do or how hard it can be. It's not their fault. Let them think we are spoiled, we know the truth. No need for us to get into a pissing contest. Debate with facts and intelligence, name calling does nothing for either side. Always remember, "You cannot win a battle of wits with an un-armed person."

[paris]

I'll answer your question as well as I think I know how to, with what I think the answer is: 1) Besides the fact that manufacturing is getting off-shored, automation and productivity gains have, coupled with off-shoring, drastically reduced manufacturing jobs to roughly around ten percent of all jobs, from sixty percent of all jobs in the late fifties/early sixties. With the drastic increase in white collar employment has come a huge increase in things like at-will employment, annual changes in medical benefits (usually for the worse for the employee), cost-of-living raises replaced by 100% merit based increases (and all the politics that goes with that), and defined benefit pensions completely replaced by 401K only retirement plans. Zip job security, tons of job related stress (not saying blue collar workers don't have stress too, because I know you do), in jobs that, in most cases, are legally impossible for a union to organize. Are a lot of the people jealous of UAW Big Three wages and benefits? You bet your ass they are. Speaking as a former Local 600 member, who is now one of those millions of white collar workers, I may not, because of my family be a UAW hater, but I hear how vehement their hatred is. Like it or not, we needs these people as customers, or none of us have jobs. It doesn't matter one Gawd damn bit how illegitimate their opinions are - you can't challenge these gas-bags and then ask them to spend their money on your employers products, because you need your job and your benefits, because they will feel extremely justified in telling you to go fuck yourself. Bottom-line is that there are a lot of people who have been getting fucked over by their employers on retirement, pay, and/or medical coverage, and the last damn thing they want to hear is that the employees of some of the companies who make one of the most expensive products they will ever buy, are fighting for job security, pay, and/or benefits that they themselves don't have and can't have.

 

2) No one of these people complain about European or even Japanese autoworkers pay and benefits because, to be blunt, they ain't here in the USA, so they don't care. It's your pay, benefits, and union protection that they're envious of, and feel that their purchase (of a Big 3 car/truck) would support something they either can't have for themselves, or just don't believe in. Doesn't matter that their purchase of a Bimmer or a Benz not only supports European auto unions and autoworkers, but also European national health care (something else that most white collar Americans also don't believe in. Doesn't matter, because a) that's over there (in Europe) and b ) they get to screw you here in the USA/Canada.

 

It's not going to change either. Not just "it's not going to change" anytime soon. It's "it's not going to change" ever. With half the cars and trucks being sold here now NOT being made by the Big Three, and many of those companies having assembly plant, and some engine and transmission plants, here in the USA/Canada, and all of them non-union and having a better quality reputation (deserved or not) and now it's becoming PC (politically correct) to bad mouth the unions and say you're not buying GM, Ford, or Chrysler because of the unions.

 

It sucks, it's unfair, and it's probably 99% wrong, but if you talk back, if you fight back, the only result that I guarantee will happen is that they'll buy even more from the transplants and imports, and fuck all of us that depend on the Detroit automakers.

Len_A,

I couldn't agree more. That is a GREAT answer to pointy.

What the union members need to remember is that when they get away from middle america, there are NO unions! Look at the border states like California, Florida, all along the east coast, the far south, and on and on. These people not only are not union members, they dont want any part of unions. They look at them as being corrupt and an additional cost added to the price of the products that they need to purchase. They dont care about your health care, retirement, cost of living, breaks, profit sharing, or anything else that you care about. What really bothers me is that I know that Ron Gettlefinger knows this. I KNOW that he knows how many times UAW organizers have been ran out of facilities they have tried to organize. How can he turn around and call a strike against G.M.? It has no logic to it and I cant believe that there are intelligent people he has as advisors who would not stand up and tell him the same. When the union members wake up and realize that they have little to no support from the bulk of the American public, only then, will they be at the beginning of the realization, that PEOPLE DONT BUY OUR CARS AND TRUCKS BECAUSE THEY LIKE US AND WANT US TO CONTINUE TO MAKE BETTER MONEY THAN THEY DO!!! They buy our cars and trucks because it makes economic sense and it contains the quality that they desire in a product that they purchase for their family. PERIOD! IF a UAW member is benefitted by the purchase, it's likelly incidental.

What can you, as a UAW member do at this point? Right now there are 2 things. NUMBER 1, PRAY that there is a market left for the domestic automakers to compete in after this recklessness by the UAW leadership. NUMBER 2, AS I HAVE SAID FOR THE 3 YEARS THAT I HAVE BEEN POSTING ON THIS FORUM, MAKE THE HIGHEST QUALITY PARTS YOU CAN MAKE WHEN YOU GO TO WORK TOMORROW. SHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE BUYING THE HIGHEST QUALITY CAR OR TRUCK THAT THEY CAN BUY FOR THEIR MONEY. The UAW members who are leaches to the company by faking medical issues, dogging their jobs, not showing up for work, getting rediculous medical restrictions, hiding behind their seniority and not contributing, and trades people who cant, or wont do their jobs, need to be called on the carpet by the rest of you! They are sucking the blood out of OUR company and we need everyones help to get them out of our facilities. Just another thing that many people see as a negative to the union. They are percieved to be protecting these parasites.

If I seem a little on edge, Your Fu*@ing right I am.

Edited September 26, 2007 by paris

[FANTASTICFORD]

SO BUY IT AND GET OFF THIS FORUM..........the people on this forum have enough on their minds without hearing you sputter about those of us who build through hard work a product called FORD and all you can harp on is the negative of our company. Yes, you are a consumer or so you say...so go ahead buy a toyota and leave this forum to those to whom it was meant...if our jobs depend on the rantings of a lowlife like you...one who likes kick people when their down then good riddence. Now please...take a hike.

macattack

Let Scottboy, Pittnomore and Mettech have fun, they are lonely guys or mybe Girls who like to kick hard working American people down. They probably go from forum to forum looking for companies that are laying off American workers and then start bashing them. They do have the right to speak their minds, but if we all don't reply, they would go to the next forum.

[MSP Worker]

You make some valid points Paris. Most of America has no clue about the UAW. They will not realize it until it is too late. Lets just take GM, roughly 76,000 UAW members. Lets say they all take a 5 dollar an hour pay but. That's 200 bucks a week, or 10,400 bucks a year. 10400 x 76000 = 790 Million dollars. That right Millions and that is just GM. thats almost 800 million dollars no longer being spent in local communities. Now those local businesses lose customers. They cut pay and layoff workers. Who is left to even buy cars and trucks? It's a slow death that will reach the rest of America slowly, nobody will care or notice untill it is too late.

 

You will see a new attendance policy to curtail the abuse of missing work. I cannot argue that fact people do abuse the system. It will come to an end.

 

It's up to management to make these people do their jobs. They have the means to get rid of these problems in the contract. I think alot of problems date back to when management used to abuse their powers and get rid of people just because they could. The Union made it more difficult for management to do that. Was needed at the time but it may have run it course. I know at my plant the Company also refuses to get rid of slugs on their side of the fence. If both sides would agree to cut the fat, we would all be better off. Will it ever happen? Probably not. They however can not place all the blame on us. Most of the contract issues were put there for a reason. The UAW did not just make them up and have the Company agree just because. It's a give and take relationship. 30 years ago, the big 3 were all on there way to bankrupcy. 10 years ago they had record profits. It goes in cycles. They all will survive and prosper again.

[Len_A]

macattack

Let Scottboy, Pittnomore and Mettech have fun, they are lonely guys or mybe Girls who like to kick hard working American people down. They probably go from forum to forum looking for companies that are laying off American workers and then start bashing them. They do have the right to speak their minds, but if we all don't reply, they would go to the next forum.

Good advice.

[Len_A]

You make some valid points Paris. Most of America has no clue about the UAW. They will not realize it until it is too late. Lets just take GM, roughly 76,000 UAW members. Lets say they all take a 5 dollar an hour pay but. That's 200 bucks a week, or 10,400 bucks a year. 10400 x 76000 = 790 Million dollars. That right Millions and that is just GM. thats almost 800 million dollars no longer being spent in local communities. Now those local businesses lose customers. They cut pay and layoff workers. Who is left to even buy cars and trucks? It's a slow death that will reach the rest of America slowly, nobody will care or notice untill it is too late.

 

You will see a new attendance policy to curtail the abuse of missing work. I cannot argue that fact people do abuse the system. It will come to an end.

 

It's up to management to make these people do their jobs. They have the means to get rid of these problems in the contract. I think alot of problems date back to when management used to abuse their powers and get rid of people just because they could. The Union made it more difficult for management to do that. Was needed at the time but it may have run it course. I know at my plant the Company also refuses to get rid of slugs on their side of the fence. If both sides would agree to cut the fat, we would all be better off. Will it ever happen? Probably not. They however can not place all the blame on us. Most of the contract issues were put there for a reason. The UAW did not just make them up and have the Company agree just because. It's a give and take relationship. 30 years ago, the big 3 were all on there way to bankrupcy. 10 years ago they had record profits. It goes in cycles. They all will survive and prosper again.

I agree with everything you wrote, except the last couple of sentences. As recently as the 1999 and 2000, as a vendor, I witnessed abusive GM supervisors with my own eyes. This wasn't thirty years ago. This was less than eight years ago. GM has always had a labor relations problem. But, at the end of the day, it's up to management to manage, and that's including disciplining the troops when they get out of line.

 

I don't agree about the certainty that the Big Three will survive and prosper. Financially, for all three of them, things are uglier than they've ever been. Now with collective market share dropping to 50%, and a good chunk of the American public turning against us, there are no fucking guarantees, baby. Things can still get a lot worse, and that unfortunately includes Chapter 11.