Agreement almost finalized

[lapsergio]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews...20070926?rpc=44

 

 

An agreement could include a health-care trust with a guarantee on cost-inflation and another attrition plan, Selle said. It could also include second-tier wages for new hires, reform of the Jobs banks and increased use of temporary workers, he said.

 

"In turn, we expect GM to commit to future platforms at specific U.S. plants, benchmark minimum employment levels and a $7,000 per worker signing bonus," Selle said.

 

UAW workers received a $3,000 signing bonus in 2003.

 

GM's plants are more efficient and flexible now than ever, and declining market share in North America has left the automaker with excess capacity.

 

GM could commit to long-term contracts and investments in U.S. plants to break the stalemate, but the UAW would have to be more willing to sacrifice on hourly wages and benefits, said Scott Watkins, an Anderson Economic Group consultant.

 

The East Lansing, Michigan-based Anderson Economic Group has worked with GM, Ford (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research), Chrysler and several auto parts suppliers and car dealers. It has not worked with the UAW, but has done work with the Service Employees International Union.

 

Erich Merkle, an analyst at consulting firm IRN Inc, said job and investment guarantees could help resolve the strike, but the GM-UAW relationship has been built on guarantee after guarantee with a life-time commitment to new hourly hires.

 

"We live in a world where guarantees just don't exist," Merkle said. "They are an island in the middle of the ocean."

 

Settling the labor contract would not solve all of GM's problems, Merkle said. The automaker also must get the market to consider its vehicles a viable alternative not just to Ford or Chrysler, but to Honda and Toyota.

 

"I hope this is a short strike, Merkle said. "If it is anything long and protracted, than it is going to be brutal."

[lapsergio]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070925/auto_talks.html?.v=29

 

 

UAW, GM Close to Reaching Contract Deal

Tuesday September 25, 10:22 pm ET

By Dee-Ann Durbin and Tom Krisher, AP Auto Writers

UAW and GM Bargainers for Close to Reaching Contract Agreement That Would End Strike

 

 

DETROIT (AP) -- Bargainers for the United Auto Workers and General Motors Corp. on Tuesday night were close to reaching a contract agreement that would end a nationwide strike by 73,000 workers, two people who were briefed on the talks said.

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Negotiators began work Tuesday morning and were talking into the night in an effort to halt the strike, which started at 11 a.m. Monday at about 80 GM facilities across the country.

 

Both of the people requested anonymity because the talks are private. One said negotiating teams were working out "small details," while the other said that work was almost wrapped up on an innovative plan for the company to pay the union to form a trust and take over responsibility for retiree health care.

 

But Tuesday night, picketers remained at the GM factories and other facilities, although several industry analysts said they expected the walkout to be short.

 

A 1970 strike against GM went on for 69 days and helped push the nation into a recession, but industry watchers didn't think that would happen this time.

 

Both sides have something the other desires -- the workers want job security, GM wants the union to take on the burden of retiree health care -- and that's the stuff that agreements are made of.

 

"The UAW and GM understand that a strike is a lose/lose proposition," Deutsche Bank analyst Rod Lache said Tuesday in a note to investors.

[mettech]

Concur.

[Mark8LSC CE0464]

A signing bonus? For what? Going to work after ratifying a contract? It would seem that ordinary people like myself are correct in their feelings that the union should be busted. I don't get a signing bonus, why should the UAW? This strike is the perfect time for GM to shed some inventory, save some cash since they won't be paying any wages, and remind the UAW members that their checks say GM at the top NOT UAW! Hell, let's make it interesting, GM should not begin talks again for a month or so. Let the UAW workers survive on $200.00 a week and get behind on some bills! Ooops, they won't get behind on their bills because they are paid too much and they get their health care for a song and a dance!

Edited September 26, 2007 by Mark8LSC CE0464

[DearbornDerek]

I don't get a signing bonus, why should the UAW? This strike is the perfect time for GM to shed some inventory, save some cash since they won't be paying any wages

 

Sooo, because you don't get something no one else should???

Save some cash? The news report tonight said GM is expecting to lose $800M if the strike goes a week.

[jafo]

UAW is in a tough position. I personally think unions have the right to exist, but I also thing uaw long overstepped it bounds in "protecting" workers. IF GM wants to be competitive, they have to be more efficient. However, being more efficient means lower headcount and that is the exact opposite of what UAW wants.

 

A long strike against GM is a suicide pact by both parties at this point. If UAW does not agree to terms, its members will getting 100% of nothing.

[MSP Worker]

I think its more than just head count. It's where that head count comes from. They will fight to keep jobs from re-appearing in other countries. I myself was amazed the UAW agreed to these buy outs knowing they would not be replaced by dues paying members. My own personal opinion, they will get there two tiered wage system and eliminate the pension for new people in this agreement. However, they will fight to ensure that people like us ( currently employed ) are not put on the street and replaced by people making less.

 

Furthermore, if they get there new wage system, all current employees should consider tesphe or another investment option. In 30 years the new people will be running the show without a pension in place so I doubt they will protect ours. Just my opinion.

[jafo]

I think its more than just head count. It's where that head count comes from. They will fight to keep jobs from re-appearing in other countries. I myself was amazed the UAW agreed to these buy outs knowing they would not be replaced by dues paying members. My own personal opinion, they will get there two tiered wage system and eliminate the pension for new people in this agreement. However, they will fight to ensure that people like us ( currently employed ) are not put on the street and replaced by people making less.

 

Furthermore, if they get there new wage system, all current employees should consider tesphe or another investment option. In 30 years the new people will be running the show without a pension in place so I doubt they will protect ours. Just my opinion.

 

 

But even if all the jobs stayed in the US, it would still require much less manpower to do it. Let GM give out buyouts, increase efficiency and start gaining marketshare again. The current couse that GM and UAW are not sustainable. GM needs better control of factories and headcount and UAW does not want them to have them. Reduced head count means reduced power for UAW.

[Furious1Auto]

A signing bonus? For what? Going to work after ratifying a contract? It would seem that ordinary people like myself are correct in their feelings that the union should be busted. I don't get a signing bonus, why should the UAW? This strike is the perfect time for GM to shed some inventory, save some cash since they won't be paying any wages, and remind the UAW members that their checks say GM at the top NOT UAW! Hell, let's make it interesting, GM should not begin talks again for a month or so. Let the UAW workers survive on $200.00 a week and get behind on some bills! Ooops, they won't get behind on their bills because they are paid too much and they get their health care for a song and a dance!

You are so foolish, the UAW has more strength than ever. Many have 10's of thousands socked away in their 401K's that is out of control of the companies. They can draw a loan from them at any time to sustain their households. A few here and their may lose some but we will not let our brothers go without necessities. Their will be food drops if needed, and in the A.M. I will walk the picket line with my GM brothers. Quit focusing on your short comings as an excuse to justify trying to support people losing everything. You worthless piece of sh-t!!

Edited September 26, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[06StangAwesomecar]

You are so foolish, the UAW has more strength than ever. Many have 10's of thousands socked away in their 401K's that is out of control of the companies. They can draw a loan from them at any time to sustain their households. A few here and their may lose some but we will not let our brothers go without necessities. Their will be food drops if needed, and in the A.M. I will walk the picket line with my GM brothers. Quit focusing on your short comings as an excuse to justify trying to support people losing everything. You worthless piece of sh-t!!

 

 

Well said!!!

Also I wonder if the crybaby has his box of kleenex next to him at all times,, (I dont get a signing bonus) Wal-Mart doesnt do that WTF.

[hendew_15]

Sides hammer out two-tier wage deal

 

Plan to pay new non-line workers less is part of strategy to cut costs, save jobs

 

 

General Motors Corp. and the United Auto Workers dug in at the bargaining table Tuesday to craft a deal that slashes labor costs while safeguarding union jobs as thousands of autoworkers spent a second day on the picket line.

 

Sources told The Detroit News that GM and the UAW have essentially agreed on core economic aspects of a deal, including a two-tier wage structure for non-manufacturing jobs and cash bonuses over the next four years. The payments would be $3,000 to start followed by three years of lump-sum payments roughly equal to 3 percent of annual wages, the sources said.

 

 

Read the rest here

[mrballsonya]

You are so foolish, the UAW has more strength than ever. Many have 10's of thousands socked away in their 401K's that is out of control of the companies. They can draw a loan from them at any time to sustain their households. A few here and their may lose some but we will not let our brothers go without necessities. Their will be food drops if needed, and in the A.M. I will walk the picket line with my GM brothers. Quit focusing on your short comings as an excuse to justify trying to support people losing everything. You worthless piece of sh-t!!

 

Well said Furious.

 

It really is ashame that in todays America, there are so may people that share Mark8LSC's mentality. You all know the mentality... "why should he make X dollars when I only make Y dollars". I can't believe that seemingly intelligent people don't realize what's going on. Corporate America has obviously pitted us against ourselves, and they're doing a fantastic job of perpetuating the "wage race to the bottom" mentality.

 

It's bad enough that the U.S. has about half of the Manufacturing capacity as it did back in the 70's, but when you couple that with all the lost jobs, huge pay cuts, and sky high gas and energy prices......you end up in an economy where the Canadian dollar is now worth the same as ours.

 

So now you have a situation where the majority of the working middle class are making less than they did 5 years ago, and as an extra kick in the ass....we can't buy as much with our devalued dollar. The only purported advantage of a devalued U.S. dollar, is that supposedly it helps out our manufacturers. I'll believe that, once they stop moving our jobs to China and Mexico.

 

My only hope is that people like Mark8LSC, start to realize that.....whats good for the Middle class U.A.W. worker, is also good for the small business owner, Loan officer, Big box Retailer, manufacturer and real estate agent. When we make more money, we spend more money.... and the U.S. economy benefits. When we make less money, and default on our mortgages, car payments, and credit cards......the U.S. economy suffers.

 

I'm sure you can make all kinds of arguments, about how Wall street and the rich drive our economy......but that's complete B.S. The middle class rules, through our spending habits. We drive this Economy, we are the majority. We could shut down Wal Mart in Months, if we stopped shopping there. When the middle class suffers......so does the U.S. economy.

[jafo]

It's bad enough that the U.S. has about half of the Manufacturing capacity as it did back in the 70's, but when you couple that with all the lost jobs, huge pay cuts, and sky high gas and energy prices......you end up in an economy where the Canadian dollar is now worth the same as ours.

 

 

Hate to break it to you, but the US manufacturing output basically grows every year. We significantly outproduce what what we did in the 70s, we just require significantly less people to do it.

[mettech]

The US ARMY paid people a $20,000 signing bonous to join and leave for basic ASAP....

I never got to listen to a song and get to dance for my health care...Hate I missed that I love to boogie down to a good song..

 

It's my understanding that they get half of the money -/tax after they finish basic. In the USAF, you don't get the money until after you complete the Tech school. Some of the Tech Schools are around 1 year.

 

The other half is prorated over the enlistment term.

 

The wash out rate is sometimes high.

[mettech]

Well said Furious.

 

It really is ashame that in todays America, there are so may people that share Mark8LSC's mentality. You all know the mentality... "why should he make X dollars when I only make Y dollars". I can't believe that seemingly intelligent people don't realize what's going on. Corporate America has obviously pitted us against ourselves, and they're doing a fantastic job of perpetuating the "wage race to the bottom" mentality.

 

It's bad enough that the U.S. has about half of the Manufacturing capacity as it did back in the 70's, but when you couple that with all the lost jobs, huge pay cuts, and sky high gas and energy prices......you end up in an economy where the Canadian dollar is now worth the same as ours.

 

So now you have a situation where the majority of the working middle class are making less than they did 5 years ago, and as an extra kick in the ass....we can't buy as much with our devalued dollar. The only purported advantage of a devalued U.S. dollar, is that supposedly it helps out our manufacturers. I'll believe that, once they stop moving our jobs to China and Mexico.

 

My only hope is that people like Mark8LSC, start to realize that.....whats good for the Middle class U.A.W. worker, is also good for the small business owner, Loan officer, Big box Retailer, manufacturer and real estate agent. When we make more money, we spend more money.... and the U.S. economy benefits. When we make less money, and default on our mortgages, car payments, and credit cards......the U.S. economy suffers.

 

I'm sure you can make all kinds of arguments, about how Wall street and the rich drive our economy......but that's complete B.S. The middle class rules, through our spending habits. We drive this Economy, we are the majority. We could shut down Wal Mart in Months, if we stopped shopping there. When the middle class suffers......so does the U.S. economy.

 

Is it your contention that every factory worker, and/or union person should be compensated nearly as much as the UAW members?

 

How much do you believe a non-skill factory worker should make and what type of benefits should they receive?

[MSP Worker]

Here is another article that mentions the job bank and some of the two tier system.

 

Some details of contract

[Furious1Auto]

Is it your contention that every factory worker, and/or union person should be compensated nearly as much as the UAW members?

 

How much do you believe a non-skill factory worker should make and what type of benefits should they receive?

Tisk tisk, another insult to the value of the people who make things move in this country. I'm glad the debate on this issue is drawing to a close, it's been exhaustive. God bless all hard working Americans, this is a victory for the middle class!

Edited September 26, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Mark8LSC CE0464]

Sooo, because you don't get something no one else should???

Save some cash? The news report tonight said GM is expecting to lose $800M if the strike goes a week.

 

No, I can't get a signing bonus, I run the place. My point is you would typically get a signing bonus for joining a new company, not for returning to a job you've held for many years. Forbes had an article stating that GM would save money as long as the strike did not go past 10 working days........

[Mark8LSC CE0464]

You are so foolish, the UAW has more strength than ever. Many have 10's of thousands socked away in their 401K's that is out of control of the companies. They can draw a loan from them at any time to sustain their households. A few here and their may lose some but we will not let our brothers go without necessities. Their will be food drops if needed, and in the A.M. I will walk the picket line with my GM brothers. Quit focusing on your short comings as an excuse to justify trying to support people losing everything. You worthless piece of sh-t!!

 

 

You can not find an article from ANY major news source that will tell you that the UAW is stronger than ever. You my friend belong to a union that is only 40% as large as it was in 1980. How do you think you are more powerful now with your membership shrinking by such drastic numbers?

[Hec]

A signing bonus? For what? Going to work after ratifying a contract? It would seem that ordinary people like myself are correct in their feelings that the union should be busted. I don't get a signing bonus, why should the UAW? This strike is the perfect time for GM to shed some inventory, save some cash since they won't be paying any wages, and remind the UAW members that their checks say GM at the top NOT UAW! Hell, let's make it interesting, GM should not begin talks again for a month or so. Let the UAW workers survive on $200.00 a week and get behind on some bills! Ooops, they won't get behind on their bills because they are paid too much and they get their health care for a song and a dance!

 

 

Actually YOUR salary job is non value added, indirect labor and is more of a burden to the cost of a vehicle than the hourly worker who actually does something.

These car companies are very top heavy with management and that needs to be addressed before they can become profitable.

In my opinion it's people like YOU that need to be reduced.

[Furious1Auto]

No, I can't get a signing bonus, I run the place. My point is you would typically get a signing bonus for joining a new company, not for returning to a job you've held for many years. Forbes had an article stating that GM would save money as long as the strike did not go past 10 working days........

They just got retiree's health care liability off of their books by subjecting it to risk, as a business owner would it not be worth it to you to make an investment to significantly reduce you annual liabilities?

[Furious1Auto]

You can not find an article from ANY major news source that will tell you that the UAW is stronger than ever. You my friend belong to a union that is only 40% as large as it was in 1980. How do you think you are more powerful now with your membership shrinking by such drastic numbers?

The papers propagate against us, the worst offender is the Detroit news sources because when they locked out their writers in the 90's the UAW supported them! As for our numbers this is true but apparently we still have enough members to leverage an effect, otherwise the company would not have hastened to come to terms under the pressure of a strike. But the members we still have a far more financially resistant to the effects of a long term strike do to the creation of 401K accounts and their advantages (ie; employee control)!

[OUTGOING]

No, I can't get a signing bonus, I run the place. My point is you would typically get a signing bonus for joining a new company, not for returning to a job you've held for many years. Forbes had an article stating that GM would save money as long as the strike did not go past 10 working days........

 

 

No managment can't get a signing bonus for returning to a job you've had all long. We don't get a bonus for doing nothing to add value to the car like youself every year. It doesn't matter how well the company is doing they still manage to give out millions of dollars to salary folk. Delphi is the perfect example in bankruptcy but still manage to find money to pay out millions in bonuses. People are to jealous of others, like its wrong to prosper, like you wouldn't take it if you could. People need to stop hating unions for what they have done for us and start thanking them. If there not apart of a union and don't like how management treats them then grow some and get the union involved its only a phone call away.

[Furious1Auto]

No managment can't get a signing bonus for returning to a job you've had all long. We don't get a bonus for doing nothing to add value to the car like youself every year. It doesn't matter how well the company is doing they still manage to give out millions of dollars to salary folk. Delphi is the perfect example in bankruptcy but still manage to find money to pay out millions in bonuses. People are to jealous of others, like its wrong to prosper, like you wouldn't take it if you could. People need to stop hating unions for what they have done for us and start thanking them. If there not apart of a union and don't like how management treats them then grow some and get the union involved its only a phone call away.

I agree the problem in this country is not unionization, but the lack of it!

Edited September 26, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Mark8LSC CE0464]

Actually YOUR salary job is non value added, indirect labor and is more of a burden to the cost of a vehicle than the hourly worker who actually does something.

These car companies are very top heavy with management and that needs to be addressed before they can become profitable.

In my opinion it's people like YOU that need to be reduced.

 

Yep, people like me need to be reduced. The world needs less of business owners like me who pay for our workers health care, give paid time off from day one, donate to charity, employ six people, none of whom make less than $12.00 an hour, provide SEP IRA plans, contribute matching funds to them, feed my whole office lunch everyday as a personal thank you, take the crew out to dinner when we hit sales targets, pay out cash bonuses for every big installation we complete within time and budget.

 

Wow, I had no idea I was such an asshole!