Dodge Gaining Traction Among Police Cars

[Traveler]

Here's the link to that NCSHP Crown Vic crash for anyone interested.

 

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2078273/

[suv_guy_19]

I was comparing it to the Fusion SEL v6 in terms of handling. The Chargers felt big and not happy in turns. It had a lot of Body roll IIRC. What killed the fun factor for me is that the rear end has little to no weight on it. The rear wheels easily lose traction under acceleration while turning. The charger may have better skid #s but driving it is not fun and doesn't impose confidence like the fusion. At least for me.

 

 

Yeah, I thought that you may have been comparing it to the Fusion. It didn't really make a difference to me, but then again I prefer larger cars.

[rmc523]

Here's the link to that NCSHP Crown Vic crash for anyone interested.

 

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2078273/

 

That's interesting.....Think of what the car would've looked like had the people that designed the Tundra's tailgate had designed the CV's roof.

[mrjones944]

Also, I'm not sure about the acceleration and handling superiority of the Charger over the Crown Vic...especially the late model Vics. Granted the Hemi engine propels it ahead of the Vic in acceleration, but many departments are going with the V6 and the Michigan State Patrol verified that the Charger was actually a few ticks behind the Crown Vic on the road course. The Charger required the larger V8 engine to best the Vic on the road course. That is at least by their independent testing.

 

We took an 07 vic vs an 07 charger with a hemi....started from a standstill, rolling and everything in between...the vic is no competition what so ever for the charger in any performance oriented catagory. Back to back driving makes one realize just how poor the suspension feels on the vic. 100+ makes me feel like I hope nothing falls off the vic. One thing I did not notice is whether or not the chargers come with any sort of stability control. First real crappy day here in MI and made me realize the vics have no sort of traction control at all.

[jpd80]

I ask the same question of you:

You name one of Ford's vehicles sold today that will take the same abuse and punishment of everyday police work, then go on to do another 150-250K as a taxi with very minimal maintenance?

 

Falcon

 

[Michael Reynolds]

We took an 07 vic vs an 07 charger with a hemi....started from a standstill, rolling and everything in between...the vic is no competition what so ever for the charger in any performance oriented catagory. Back to back driving makes one realize just how poor the suspension feels on the vic. 100+ makes me feel like I hope nothing falls off the vic. One thing I did not notice is whether or not the chargers come with any sort of stability control. First real crappy day here in MI and made me realize the vics have no sort of traction control at all.

 

Well of course it will hand the Vic its ass. If I'm not mistaken Broward Co. took possesion of Hemi equipped Chargers (not sure what the new round of orders was), and I have no idea what Orange County took possesion of.

 

Law enforcement officers should be able to drive without any serious traction aides. Yes, they are a piece of mind and they save lives, but being able to drive under adverse conditions is part of the job. Remember there are things that stability control won't save you from (i.e. ice or no road traction at all).

[P71_CrownVic]

Falcon

 

I wish that was sold here. It looks great.

 

But...it is not sold here so it does not count.

[Traveler]

I think really what you have here is a situation where the Crown Vic does really everything that most law enforcement agencies would want and its packaged the way they would want. All-around, its the overall favorite over the V6 Chargers and Impalas.

 

The Hemi Charger is going to be quicker. Its probably putting down about 80 rwhp more than the Vic at the very least and the Vic does weight a bit more. However, the Vic makes pretty good speed of its own right and handles good for its size. Like I said, a 250 hp Crown Vic outhandled a 250 hp Charger on the road course so its not exactly obsolete. The Hemi Charger moves up to take the Camaro LS1's place, although it has a lot more capability in passenger and cargo room. No wonder the 5.7 Chargers are popular for the interstates. That said, however, I'd bet they won't hold up like a Vic will. Drop them off tall curbs and median barriers, hit ditches and maybe even do a little body damage and I'll bet the Vic can keep right on going in many cases where others can't...and be back out on the road quicker.

[P71_CrownVic]

I think really what you have here is a situation where the Crown Vic does really everything that most law enforcement agencies would want and its packaged the way they would want. All-around, its the overall favorite over the V6 Chargers and Impalas.

 

The Hemi Charger is going to be quicker. Its probably putting down about 80 rwhp more than the Vic at the very least and the Vic does weight a bit more. However, the Vic makes pretty good speed of its own right and handles good for its size. Like I said, a 250 hp Crown Vic outhandled a 250 hp Charger on the road course so its not exactly obsolete. The Hemi Charger moves up to take the Camaro LS1's place, although it has a lot more capability in passenger and cargo room. No wonder the 5.7 Chargers are popular for the interstates. That said, however, I'd bet they won't hold up like a Vic will. Drop them off tall curbs and median barriers, hit ditches and maybe even do a little body damage and I'll bet the Vic can keep right on going in many cases where others can't...and be back out on the road quicker.

Not to mention that the ONLY advantage the HEMI has over the Vic is speed. Visibility is poor, interior room is poor, rear head room is poor, trunk space is a joke, 4 wheel alignments suck, it is more expensive to fix, body repair will be out of this world, etc.

 

I see a TON more Impalas than I do Chargers here in the Twin Cities. And that is mostly State. For the local cities and towns, it is either Vics or Tahoes.

 

The Charger is a fad (at least until Ford hands them the police market)

[NickF1011]

Not to mention that the ONLY advantage the HEMI has over the Vic is speed. Visibility is poor, interior room is poor, rear head room is poor, trunk space is a joke, 4 wheel alignments suck, it is more expensive to fix, body repair will be out of this world, etc.

 

I see a TON more Impalas than I do Chargers here in the Twin Cities. And that is mostly State. For the local cities and towns, it is either Vics or Tahoes.

 

The Charger is a fad (at least until Ford hands them the police market)

 

I'm wondering what our county is going to replace its aging fleet of Intrepids with. They use mostly Crown Vics and I must say those last gen Intrepid police cars look ridiculous in comparison. :lol:

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Any word on the Taurus as a police car? I've seen a few Five-Hundreds in service with a few DHS agenccies as enforcement vehicles. Granted, these are not intended for highway persuits, but are instead use for "city work" including transfering suspects from the aprehension site to the processing site and performing patrols through "controlled areas". From talking to the agents and officers that operate these vehicles, they all like their comfort level above the CVPI (especially the ones that are ex police officers) but found the lack of power unsatisfying. I've seen a cage equipped 500 next to a CVPI with a cage, and, from my untrained eye, without the aid of measuring devices, it appeared that there was more room in the back seat of the 500.

 

I know that they're trying to reduce the number of fleet sales of the Taurus, but, perhaps, they could use the 500 badges on the Taurus' that are intended for police duty? Would keep from diluting the Taurus brand identity any more than it already is.

[Traveler]

Well, the top speed can't really be that much of a factor in deciding to buy Hemi Chargers. First of all, I would be alarmed to know if LEOs are finding the opportunity to run the 148 mph top speed regularly with the Chargers. The Crown Vic's top speed is 130 mph. So, the advantage is 18 mph, however I feel reasonably sure to say that the Hemi Charger can get up to speed quicker than the Crown Vic which is probably more of the selling point. The way most interstate and multi-lane highways are today, LEOs often have to start from a stand still or go down and turn around to catch a speeder. The only thing is just how far would a Charger have to chase somebody down...while maintaining public safety as much as possible?

 

Surely not at the stake of a LEO's well-being, but I've wondered how well a Charger would hold up in a high speed crash compared to a Crown Victoria? Has anyone seen a Charger police cruiser wrecked?

[Sevensecondsuv]

Those CV's are tough cars. My mom recently hit a cow in her '99. Yes I said a 1200 pound black angus cow. She was going about 50 MPH and walked away without a scratch. The cow rolled right over the roof structure and off the trunk lid. The car did not deform at all. All it needed was new glass, a grille, hood, headlight, and side mirror and I could have been driving it again. I knew these things were tanks, but I was absolutely amazed at how well it stood up to such a wreck. The police officer who did the accident report said she was lucky that she was driving a crown vic, then he went on to express his displeasure with the department's discision to have him driving an impala and said that he wished he could be driving a crown vic.

 

BTW, it had 175,000 miles on it with very little basic maintenance and it ran just like it was new.

 

The CV's have quite a reputation that dodge, chevy, or who ever else tries to build a cop car will have a hard time overcoming.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Sevensecondsuv

[P71_CrownVic]

I'm wondering what our county is going to replace its aging fleet of Intrepids with. They use mostly Crown Vics and I must say those last gen Intrepid police cars look ridiculous in comparison. :lol:

 

I am surprised they are still on the road.

 

Any word on the Taurus as a police car? I've seen a few Five-Hundreds in service with a few DHS agenccies as enforcement vehicles. Granted, these are not intended for highway persuits, but are instead use for "city work" including transfering suspects from the aprehension site to the processing site and performing patrols through "controlled areas". From talking to the agents and officers that operate these vehicles, they all like their comfort level above the CVPI (especially the ones that are ex police officers) but found the lack of power unsatisfying. I've seen a cage equipped 500 next to a CVPI with a cage, and, from my untrained eye, without the aid of measuring devices, it appeared that there was more room in the back seat of the 500.

 

I know that they're trying to reduce the number of fleet sales of the Taurus, but, perhaps, they could use the 500 badges on the Taurus' that are intended for police duty? Would keep from diluting the Taurus brand identity any more than it already is.

 

Never. Going. To. Happen.

 

Those CV's are tough cars. My mom recently hit a cow in her '99. Yes I said a 1200 pound black angus cow. She was going about 50 MPH and walked away without a scratch. The cow rolled right over the roof structure and off the trunk lid. The car did not deform at all. All it needed was new glass, a grille, hood, headlight, and side mirror and I could have been driving it again. I knew these things were tanks, but I was absolutely amazed at how well it stood up to such a wreck. The police officer who did the accident report said she was lucky that she was driving a crown vic, then he went on to express his displeasure with the department's discision to have him driving an impala and said that he wished he could be driving a crown vic.

 

BTW, it had 175,000 miles on it with very little basic maintenance and it ran just like it was new.

 

The CV's have quite a reputation that dodge, chevy, or who ever else tries to build a cop car will have a hard time overcoming.

 

That is truly amazing. I am glad the car protected her and she is A-OK.

[retro-man]

I really admire the Panther platform - I think it is an extremely capable and evolved vehicle - and I grew up with a '63 Galaxie, which I recognize as its direct ancestor. I would like to see Ford make the investment to bring all its good qualities into the 21st century. Give it competitive range of engines, from high mileage and alternative fuels on the one end to high horsepower on the other (our '63 had everything from a 6 cyl to a dual 4 bbl 427 available - ours was the superb 300hp Thunderbird 390), and update the styling. This isn't really much to preserve your position with fleets, and regain some long-gone consumer market share. It is a great basic platform. It has plenty of life left in it. Just invest in it.

[P71_CrownVic]

I really admire the Panther platform - I think it is an extremely capable and evolved vehicle - and I grew up with a '63 Galaxie, which I recognize as its direct ancestor. I would like to see Ford make the investment to bring all its good qualities into the 21st century. Give it competitive range of engines, from high mileage and alternative fuels on the one end to high horsepower on the other (our '63 had everything from a 6 cyl to a dual 4 bbl 427 available - ours was the superb 300hp Thunderbird 390), and update the styling. This isn't really much to preserve your position with fleets, and regain some long-gone consumer market share. It is a great basic platform. It has plenty of life left in it. Just invest in it.

Wishful thinking.

[mrjones944]

Well of course it will hand the Vic its ass. If I'm not mistaken Broward Co. took possesion of Hemi equipped Chargers (not sure what the new round of orders was), and I have no idea what Orange County took possesion of.

 

Law enforcement officers should be able to drive without any serious traction aides. Yes, they are a piece of mind and they save lives, but being able to drive under adverse conditions is part of the job. Remember there are things that stability control won't save you from (i.e. ice or no road traction at all).

While I dont want to say that what you said is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard it by far wins the weekly award. Along those lines maybe we should start over with sling shots and midget drawn carts...Simple traction control is not what I would call a "serious traction aid."

[Hemiman]

While I dont want to say that what you said is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard it by far wins the weekly award. Along those lines maybe we should start over with sling shots and midget drawn carts...Simple traction control is not what I would call a "serious traction aid."

 

 

Actually, he's not too far off. The "simple traction control" that all the cops I've talked to prefer, is a limited slip differential. A feature that is available on the CV. I live in one of the snowiest cities in the NE, and the local cops HATE the FWD Impalas in the snow. Love the CV with the LS rear end. Believe it or not, you can actually use wheel spin & over-steer to aid in driving.

[matthewq4b]

Actually, he's not too far off. The "simple traction control" that all the cops I've talked to prefer, is a limited slip differential. A feature that is available on the CV. I live in one of the snowiest cities in the NE, and the local cops HATE the FWD Impalas in the snow. Love the CV with the LS rear end. Believe it or not, you can actually use wheel spin & over-steer to aid in driving.

 

 

Is that not the truth.

 

I fraken hate traction control with a passon, give me limited slip in a RWD over traction control any day in the winter. And we get an easy 5 months of winter here, I have hundreds of thousands miles on snow and Ice covered roads under my belt,, so I sort of know what I'm talking about. Almost totoally useless about decribes traction control in RWD cars. Ya if you have marginal drivng skills it is a help. Otherwise it is a complete pain in the ass in the winter. That is part of the reason the Charger is parked right now and I'm driving the old limited slip equipped 92 GM.

 

 

 

Matthew

[matthewq4b]

I really have a hard time believing, and also with knowledge from personal experience, that the Charger was a poor handler. I have driven our magnum up to 185 kph and it was just fine.

 

 

Suv He is right the LX cars have squirrly ass ends. I own both. A RT Charger and a Panther the 92 GM is basically a 95, suspension and brake wise.The springs on all 4 corners the sway bars the Upper A arms spindles lower ball joints all the steering gear and all brake componants were switched over to 95 PI parts about 10 years ago.

 

The GM is way more stable and predictable than the Charger. The 03 and newer units are even better than the old 92.

 

The EPS (Edmonton Police Service) tested the Magnum and the Chargers and drew the same conclutions the LX cars are not as stable or predictable as the CV's. Especially on slick surfaces. The LX cars were discounted as potential PI units. No PD in Alberta, Cagary Police, EPS, RCMP, Alberta Sherrifs (Provincial Police Force), or any of the country mounties use the charger not a single one. The only other PI units used here are the Impala, and those are left overs from the last generation or Impalas and are used by the RCMP in small city's Red Deer St Albert Sherwood Park ETC and used for light duty work and as those hit the 160k KM mark they are being retired and replaced with CV's.

 

 

The CV is now the only front line Police Cars now being purchased in Alberta.

The Charger was ruled out as a potential replacement due to unpredicable and squirrly handeling.

 

 

Matthew

[suv_guy_19]

Suv He is right the LX cars have squirrly ass ends. I own both. A RT Charger and a Panther the 92 GM is basically a 95, suspension and brake wise.The springs on all 4 corners the sway bars the Upper A arms spindles lower ball joints all the steering gear and all brake componants were switched over to 95 PI parts about 10 years ago.

 

The GM is way more stable and predictable than the Charger. The 03 and newer units are even better than the old 92.

 

The EPS (Edmonton Police Service) tested the Magnum and the Chargers and drew the same conclutions the LX cars are not as stable or predictable as the CV's. Especially on slick surfaces. The LX cars were discounted as potential PI units. No PD in Alberta, Cagary Police, EPS, RCMP, Alberta Sherrifs (Provincial Police Force), or any of the country mounties use the charger not a single one. The only other PI units used here are the Impala, and those are left overs from the last generation or Impalas and are used by the RCMP in small city's Red Deer St Albert Sherwood Park ETC and used for light duty work and as those hit the 160k KM mark they are being retired and replaced with CV's.

The CV is now the only front line Police Cars now being purchased in Alberta.

The Charger was ruled out as a potential replacement due to unpredicable and squirrly handeling.

Matthew

 

 

Well you may be right, but then again, I would never need to drive the car in the way that they do. It may be that SRA is just more predictable than IRS. I still believe that if they cancel all others, the CVPI and TC livery package should hang around ans they seem to be very good at their jobs.