Lincoln Town Car

[rmc523]

Even if they did, why move TC production to STAP for at most a years or two?

 

Maybe so they can clear out Wixom?

[P71_CrownVic]

Maybe so they can clear out Wixom?

Why even bother moving it at all...why not just can it all together and save even more money?

[suv_guy_19]

Why even bother moving it at all...why not just can it all together and save even more money?

 

Because I would imagine that what they did was what the number crunchers determined would be best.

[twintornados]

Why even bother moving it at all...why not just can it all together and save even more money?

 

It would seem that Panther will live for now, Wixom could become home to Huntsman, Verve, EU-Ranger, so Town Car was sent to STAP since they already are "Panther Friendly" and TC still has a following. Demand may be waning overall so consolidation of all Panthers at one plant made sense. Wring out as much profit as is left in those tools and dies and by 2012, a replacement will be ready.....then STAP can get new product to manufacture when Panther finally ends.

[Traveler]

I really think that if there is to be a RWD replacement for the Panther and that particular platform will also serve the fleets, then there should be an overlap in production of both the Panther and the RWD replacement platform. Reason being so that as the Panther becomes solely a fleet-favored vehicle, the RWD replacement can attempt to win over the public first and then find appeal in the fleets.

 

The general public may be indifferent to the Panther, but the fleets feel dependent on them and are mostly satisfied. Its going to be hard to transfer that devotion and loyalty to a new unibody platform untested in the eyes of the fleet purchasers, especially with police. While the Crown Vic is still in service, a new RWD for the public needs to roll out much like Dodge did with the Charger. Then, begin marketing the new RWD to replace the Vic.

 

I guarantee its not going to be an easy sale to begin with, but it could be a way for Ford to showcase the next generation technology with a Twin Force V6 and a 6 speed auto or something like that. Show that it has staying power, relatively trouble-free and better on gas and Ford will make the sale. If Ford pulls out of the police market to quickly, Dodge and Chevy will be waiting to fill the void and Ford will have a tough time winning back their share of the market.

[rkisler]

Even still...seems like a lot of work and wasted money for 4 extra years of production. Why not just keep it at Wixom for the 4 years?

 

Wixom is a horrible plant. Too big. Too many lines, some of which criss-cross each other. Huge fixed costs to operate. All the equipment except for the paint plant is now obsolete. No car program can be profitable in this plant as it is presently configured, and I don't think it will ever be used again.

 

In the case of the Town Car, it would have been the sole remaining product at Wixom. It's virtually impossible to run a plant that has a capacity approaching 300k with only 30k or so annual production. Not to mention that product would take a huge financial loss.

 

So the choices were either 1) drop it or 2) move to St. Thomas.

 

I think the decision was made to drop, but Ford management got their ears bent by the limo and livery guys. After all, a good number of them base their business solely on this platform.

 

So it was moved, and I don't think it was so trivial, as there were 4 unique wheelbases among the Panthers (2 in Wixom, and 2 in St. Thomas). And the front structure of the TC is somewhat different than the CV/GM. So who knows whether the move was financially justified?? Probably breakeven at best considering the low and declining volume. But it does help the critical mass of St. Thomas on one shift until this platform runs its course.

[P71_CrownVic]

I really think that if there is to be a RWD replacement for the Panther and that particular platform will also serve the fleets, then there should be an overlap in production of both the Panther and the RWD replacement platform. Reason being so that as the Panther becomes solely a fleet-favored vehicle, the RWD replacement can attempt to win over the public first and then find appeal in the fleets.

 

The general public may be indifferent to the Panther, but the fleets feel dependent on them and are mostly satisfied. Its going to be hard to transfer that devotion and loyalty to a new unibody platform untested in the eyes of the fleet purchasers, especially with police. While the Crown Vic is still in service, a new RWD for the public needs to roll out much like Dodge did with the Charger. Then, begin marketing the new RWD to replace the Vic.

 

I guarantee its not going to be an easy sale to begin with, but it could be a way for Ford to showcase the next generation technology with a Twin Force V6 and a 6 speed auto or something like that. Show that it has staying power, relatively trouble-free and better on gas and Ford will make the sale. If Ford pulls out of the police market to quickly, Dodge and Chevy will be waiting to fill the void and Ford will have a tough time winning back their share of the market.

X2...but I doubt forced induction will ever make it to a fleet vehicle. I know in my city there are two large holding tanks in the ground at public works. One is diesel, the other is 87 octane gasoline. My city is not about to put another tank in the ground for premium fuel because 10-15 squads have hair dryers attached to them. There goes your savings in fuel economy.

[twintornados]

Wixom is a horrible plant. Too big. Too many lines, some of which criss-cross each other. Huge fixed costs to operate. All the equipment except for the paint plant is now obsolete. No car program can be profitable in this plant as it is presently configured, and I don't think it will ever be used again.

 

In the case of the Town Car, it would have been the sole remaining product at Wixom. It's virtually impossible to run a plant that has a capacity approaching 300k with only 30k or so annual production. Not to mention that product would take a huge financial loss.

 

So the choices were either 1) drop it or 2) move to St. Thomas.

 

I think the decision was made to drop, but Ford management got their ears bent by the limo and livery guys. After all, a good number of them base their business solely on this platform.

 

So it was moved, and I don't think it was so trivial, as there were 4 unique wheelbases among the Panthers (2 in Wixom, and 2 in St. Thomas). And the front structure of the TC is somewhat different than the CV/GM. So who knows whether the move was financially justified?? Probably breakeven at best considering the low and declining volume. But it does help the critical mass of St. Thomas on one shift until this platform runs its course.

 

It sounds like Wixom would be perfect for a complete refit (including a partial demolition of no longer needed sections) to a flexible manufacture type set up for a future product line. It sounds like the move of Town Car to STAP will help the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis as those products gain from the Town Car upgrades (front structure....better?)

 

These are observations from the outside looking in....I was always under the impression that Wixom was one of Fords' crown jewels in the empire, similar in scope to the Rouge Plant.

[MIAMI-DADE]

I agree, there are tons of panthers of each type around here.

 

Since you were there recently, is Pompano Ford now integrated/merged w/ Pompano Lincoln/Mercury, because I noticed the Pompano Ford building is closed and says they moved north a few blocks -- I assumed it meant they consolidated w/ the Lincoln/Mercury dealer.

 

Yeah they consolidated.I was told that was the best thing that could have happened as Pompano Linc-Merc wasn't getting the volume and the end was near.But they also got allot of the techs from Pompano Ford so even with the increase in volume of cars going in for service they can still get the cars out in a timely matter.

[MIAMI-DADE]

I've noticed that as well, an increased number of Chrysler/Dodge/Chevy vehicles. I see several Charger and Impala squad cars (more Chargers in the Broward area, I believe the Impalas are more for the Miami-Dade area). I also know they are using Chrysler 300s as undercover units (also Five Hundreds), my neighbor drives an undercover 300.

 

I am sorry to report that Broward Sheriff had decided to change its fleet over to the Hemi Charger.Was told by a deputy just the other day it will be a gradual change.He was not happy with the news.Was told by a deputy back in 06 when they got a few test cars the Charger was joke as it had no trunk room,blind spots,and overall was not really cut out for police work as the Crown Vic was so I was really surprised when the Sheriffs office decided to go with the Charger.

 

 

Miami-Dade and Miami Beach both have Impalas mixed in with their fleet but not sure if they are changing the entire fleet.

 

BTW the F.H.P. has just ordered 26 Chargers for testing.

[rmc523]

I am sorry to report that Broward Sheriff had decided to change its fleet over to the Hemi Charger.Was told by a deputy just the other day it will be a gradual change.He was not happy with the news.Was told by a deputy back in 06 when they got a few test cars the Charger was joke as it had no trunk room,blind spots,and overall was not really cut out for police work as the Crown Vic was so I was really surprised when the Sheriffs office decided to go with the Charger.

Miami-Dade and Miami Beach both have Impalas mixed in with their fleet but not sure if they are changing the entire fleet.

 

BTW the F.H.P. has just ordered 26 Chargers for testing.

 

So Broward Sheriff is going to be all Chargers? That's gonna be strange. I guess FLPD (Fort Lauderdale) will still be Crown Vics, I'm not sure they even tested a Charger, at least I haven't seen one.

 

I know a relative of mine is a cop and the Crown Vic is his favorite squad car for the same reasons you said. He currently drives a pre 06 Impala.

 

I've noticed the Miami-Dade Impalas when I've been down to Miami a few times.

[96towncarcartier]

About Wixom:

 

I dont know where you get all the information about it being such an awful plant... since as of May 31, 2007 it received an award for being the best manufacturing facility in the world ( I dont recall the exact name of the award), but it was really nice that it won just as it was closing.

 

It makes perfect sense to me to move the TC to St Thomas. Why not have all the same platform vehicles built in the same place?

 

As for the Ranger, I'm hearing that in 2009 it will get a complete re-do, which is interesting since many have been postulating that it will end production very soon.

 

CV/GM may not have a big following with the younger folks, but with the fleet buyers it's good as gold. I just read an article today about it, why 94% of taxis in New York City are Crown Vics...it's because they are workhorses and can EASILY rack up 300,000 miles with no trouble. NYC CV Taxi's average 100,000 miles PER YEAR, running 24 hours a day.

 

Plus, keep in mind that most GM buyers are older, and the population of this country is getting older by the minute. Product makers chase the teenyboppers and 20-somethings like crazy, and forget that the VAST majority of our population are OLD. That's just not right.

 

All my years of Crown Vic/Marquis ownership have been completely trouble free, and so have my mom's and sister's. They're the best cars around, and I salute every person at STAP for making such fine vehicles!

[rmc523]

About Wixom:

 

I dont know where you get all the information about it being such an awful plant... since as of May 31, 2007 it received an award for being the best manufacturing facility in the world ( I dont recall the exact name of the award), but it was really nice that it won just as it was closing.

 

It makes perfect sense to me to move the TC to St Thomas. Why not have all the same platform vehicles built in the same place?

 

As for the Ranger, I'm hearing that in 2009 it will get a complete re-do, which is interesting since many have been postulating that it will end production very soon.

 

CV/GM may not have a big following with the younger folks, but with the fleet buyers it's good as gold. I just read an article today about it, why 94% of taxis in New York

City are Crown Vics...it's because they are workhorses and can EASILY rack up 300,000 miles with no trouble. NYC CV Taxi's average 100,000 miles PER YEAR, running 24 hours a day.

 

Plus, keep in mind that most GM buyers are older, and the population of this country is getting older by the minute. Product makers chase the teenyboppers and 20-somethings like crazy, and forget that the VAST majority of our population are OLD. That's just not right.

 

All my years of Crown Vic/Marquis ownership have been completely trouble free, and so have my mom's and sister's. They're the best cars around, and I salute every person at STAP for making such fine vehicles!

 

I believe Wixom's award was for most productive or something.

Yet another Ranger rumor I see.

 

I agree about your comment that it'd be smart to cater to older folks as well as younger people. Ford needs to go after younger buyers to bring new customers into the Ford brand as well as retain older customers. Also, those older customers can pass on their like of Ford vehicles to their families and friends.

[MIAMI-DADE]

So Broward Sheriff is going to be all Chargers? That's gonna be strange. I guess FLPD (Fort Lauderdale) will still be Crown Vics, I'm not sure they even tested a Charger, at least I haven't seen one.

 

I know a relative of mine is a cop and the Crown Vic is his favorite squad car for the same reasons you said. He currently drives a pre 06 Impala.

 

I've noticed the Miami-Dade Impalas when I've been down to Miami a few times.

 

The goal for right now with the B.S.O. is to buy Chargers as they retire the C.V's unless they change their mind due to budget cuts or something else.The Deputy said they cost more then the C.V's so anything is possible down the road.

 

I don't believe any department has a full fleet of Chargers down here except OPA LOCK but their Chargers are all leased.They leased them [all V6]for 5 years for 400 bucks a month.I will be surprised if they hold up for 5 years in that crime ridden city.

 

The bulk of the departments down here seem to be staying with the Crown Vic for now.I noticed FLPD getting allot of new C.V's so guess their sticking to them.I also saw Miami Beach last night with some new Black and White C.V's so it looks like they will have a mixed fleet.Still not sure if Miami-Dade is going to all Impalas.

 

Awhile back one of the news channels was interviewing a police officer from Miami-Dade when their was talk of going to F.W.D. cars.The officer said the only car for law enforcement was this one pointing to his Crown Vic.I can safely assume Miami-Dade did not listen to his advice.I really can't see how the Impala can hold up in Miami-Dade.

[rmc523]

The goal for right now with the B.S.O. is to buy Chargers as they retire the C.V's unless they change their mind due to budget cuts or something else.The Deputy said they cost more then the C.V's so anything is possible down the road.

 

I don't believe any department has a full fleet of Chargers down here except OPA LOCK but their Chargers are all leased.They leased them [all V6]for 5 years for 400 bucks a month.I will be surprised if they hold up for 5 years in that crime ridden city.

 

The bulk of the departments down here seem to be staying with the Crown Vic for now.I noticed FLPD getting allot of new C.V's so guess their sticking to them.I also saw Miami Beach last night with some new Black and White C.V's so it looks like they will have a mixed fleet.Still not sure if Miami-Dade is going to all Impalas.

 

Awhile back one of the news channels was interviewing a police officer from Miami-Dade when their was talk of going to F.W.D. cars.The officer said the only car for law enforcement was this one pointing to his Crown Vic.I can safely assume Miami-Dade did not listen to his advice.I really can't see how the Impala can hold up in Miami-Dade.

 

Interesting....thanks for the info.

[Fordowner]

Nothing new, just summary of what's been said here from Ford's fleet website. Interesting the lincoln webpage still only has the 2007 Town Car on it.

 

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/special...ery_TownCar.doc

 

 

 

2008 Lincoln Town Car

 

 

Ford Motor Company announced on September 15, 2006 plans to continue production of the Lincoln Town Car – a clear signal of our long-term commitment to the industry. Production assembly ended at Ford's Wixom (Mich.) Assembly Plant on May 31, 2007 and Ford moved the Lincoln Town Car production to Ford's St. Thomas (Ontario, Canada) Assembly Plant.

 

Key Dates – 2008 Town Car

11/05/07 Order Bank opens

12/06/07 Scheduling begins

January 2008 Production Begins at St. Thomas (Ontario, Canada) Assembly Plant

 

The Lincoln Town Car's reputation for durability, reliability, and quality continue to make it the premier sedan choice to meet the unique needs of the chauffeur driven transportation industry. We appreciate your loyalty and support of Ford Fleet Limousine & Livery vehicles. Ford Motor Company is committed to the long-term success of the industry.

[Traveler]

I don't take a lot away from the Charger. I think its a viable alternative, especially for departments that retire their cruisers before 100,000 miles. There are a few compromises such as the more shallow and smaller trunk, the awkward C-post and a slightly more narrow interior. Obviously, those that go with the Hemi benefit from more power. I can see why Dodges are selected for alternatives.

 

Lots of departments I think typically like to alternate anyway. Keeps the selling dealers happy, helps control the pricing and also breaks up the pattern of buying the same car year after year. As long as Ford stays competitively priced, I suspect that it will retain its dominance in the police fleet market. Its just that not since the Caprice has there been anything that compares to the Crown Victoria. Dodge may cut in a bit, but I doubt it'll hurt Crown Victoria. Ford is likely the Crown Vic's worst enemy...which is sad.

[rmc523]

Yeah they consolidated.I was told that was the best thing that could have happened as Pompano Linc-Merc wasn't getting the volume and the end was near.But they also got allot of the techs from Pompano Ford so even with the increase in volume of cars going in for service they can still get the cars out in a timely matter.

 

I stopped into Pompano Ford-Lincoln-Mercury today. I like that dealership better than the Pompano Ford dealer, it just seemed nicer.

 

Test drove an MKX and Taurus X, they both drove nicely.

[stapelec]

That was the J.D. Powel Award that Wixom won for best built car on the TC, St. Thomas got one for the GM and CV as well. As far as what's happening at Wixom, one of the VO guys told me that all the equipment is still there except for what was removed for the TC and shipped to St Thomas. Not sure if this is true, but he said the land at Wixom is very valuable and will be sold. They launched the TC at St Thomas for a cost of 93million, that's a pretty cheap vehicle launch.

 

As far as Ranger, production was extended one year to 2009, after that it will be cancelled and replaced with the F100, which is currently being developed in South America. It will be built at either Lousiville or St. Thomas. Is this fact, I don't know, but I've heard it from a number of different sources. Two auto parts plants(Prestran and Format) in the St Thomas area have been approached by Ford to build parts for the F100.

 

stapelec

Edited January 5, 2008 by stapelec

[stapworker]

That was the J.D. Powel Award that Wixom won for best built car on the TC, St. Thomas got one for the GM and CV as well. As far as what's happening at Wixom, one of the VO guys told me that all the equipment is still there except for what was removed for the TC and shipped to St Thomas. Not sure if this is true, but he said the land at Wixom is very valuable and will be sold. They launched the TC at St Thomas for a cost of 93million, that's a pretty cheap vehicle launch.

 

As far as Ranger, production was extended one year to 2009, after that it will be cancelled and replaced with the F100, which is currently being developed in South America. It will be built at either Lousiville or St. Thomas. Is this fact, I don't know, but I've heard it from a number of different sources. Two auto parts plants(Prestran and Format) in the St Thomas area have been approached by Ford to build parts for the F100.

 

stapelec

 

 

It would be nice to get another vehicle in STAP, it would secure our future and end the rumors that we are to be shut down.

[MIAMI-DADE]

I stopped into Pompano Ford-Lincoln-Mercury today. I like that dealership better than the Pompano Ford dealer, it just seemed nicer.

 

Test drove an MKX and Taurus X, they both drove nicely.

 

PM sent

Edited January 5, 2008 by MIAMI-DADE

[P71_CrownVic]

The Lincoln Town Car's reputation for durability, reliability, and quality continue to make it the premier sedan choice to meet the unique needs of the chauffeur driven transportation industry. We appreciate your loyalty and support of Ford Fleet Limousine & Livery vehicles. Ford Motor Company is committed to the long-term success of the industry.

 

What bullshit. They want these cars (for some stupid reason) to go away faster than anyone. Maybe it's because the Panthers continue to embarrass the D3s in sales.

[STAPline2]

Is this fact, I don't know, but I've heard it from a number of different sources. Two auto parts plants(Prestran and Format) in the St Thomas area have been approached by Ford to build parts for the F100.

 

Not sure who your sources are, but i have a member in my family who is assistant plant manager at Prestran in st. thomas, and he's heard nothing of that at all. Wish that were true though.

[Topgun]

That was the J.D. Powel Award that Wixom won for best built car on the TC, St. Thomas got one for the GM and CV as well. As far as what's happening at Wixom, one of the VO guys told me that all the equipment is still there except for what was removed for the TC and shipped to St Thomas. Not sure if this is true, but he said the land at Wixom is very valuable and will be sold. They launched the TC at St Thomas for a cost of 93million, that's a pretty cheap vehicle launch.

 

As far as Ranger, production was extended one year to 2009, after that it will be cancelled and replaced with the F100, which is currently being developed in South America. It will be built at either Lousiville or St. Thomas. Is this fact, I don't know, but I've heard it from a number of different sources. Two auto parts plants(Prestran and Format) in the St Thomas area have been approached by Ford to build parts for the F100.

 

stapelec

Wards Auto has the F100 penciled in already for Lousiville

Edited January 5, 2008 by topgun

[stapelec]

Not sure who your sources are, but i have a member in my family who is assistant plant manager at Prestran in st. thomas, and he's heard nothing of that at all. Wish that were true though.

 

Isn't that part of what this forum is about speculation and wishful thinking. We won't know anything for sure until after our contract in Sept., gonna be a tough one.