Flex Vista Roof

[BORG]

I notice the Flex in the Extreme Makeover photo has a dinky little moonroof instead of the Vista Roof it has been seen in. Does this mean the Vista Roof is gone or are there two choices (unlike the Edge)?

[suv_guy_19]

I notice the Flex in the Extreme Makeover photo has a dinky little moonroof instead of the Vista Roof it has been seen in. Does this mean the Vista Roof is gone or are there two choices (unlike the Edge)?

 

 

IIRC 2 choices.

[BORG]

Ford has a history of eliminating features right before debut in order to improve fuel economy. I thought the heavy Vista Roof may have gotten the ax for this reason. It happened before with the Lincoln LS back in 2000 and I had just gotten my car before they start stripping the car down 6 months after launch.

[RichardJensen]

Yeah. Ford eliminated the most popular option in the Edge from the Flex because of fuel economy. Right. You bet. Sure thing boss.

[Moosetang]

$890 option

[BORG]

Yeah. Ford eliminated the most popular option in the Edge from the Flex because of fuel economy. Right. You bet. Sure thing boss.

 

I was just asking for Christ sake!

 

The MKX lost its 20" rims before debut for the same reason! There is precedence for this! I've seen this happened countless times with vehicles I planned to buy so I'm growing shell-shocked about Ford's incomplete promises and have come to expect things like this to happen.

 

Remember when the MKX was called the Aviator! Guess what we didn't get to see when the Aviator became the MKX?

 

 

Edited December 1, 2007 by BORG

[RichardJensen]

It's not done to improve fuel economy. Fuel economy is measured off a base model. You know how the label says, "Actual mileage may vary..."? Well it goes on to list 'options' as one of the variables.

 

 

As to why 20" rims were axed from your MKX, well, who knows? They're not standard equipment, they're in fact, sold as a profitable option, ergo they wouldn't've been cut for cost cutting purposes. Maybe preliminary orders from dealers suggested the take rate wounldn't be high enough.

 

Maybe you should stop assuming that what happens is due to incompetence and cost cutting.

[matthewq4b]

It's not done to improve fuel economy. Fuel economy is measured off a base model. You know how the label says, "Actual mileage may vary..."? Well it goes on to list 'options' as one of the variables.

 

 

As to why 20" rims were axed from your MKX, well, who knows? They're not standard equipment, they're in fact, sold as a profitable option, ergo they wouldn't've been cut for cost cutting purposes. Maybe preliminary orders from dealers suggested the take rate wounldn't be high enough.

 

Maybe you should stop assuming that what happens is due to incompetence and cost cutting.

 

 

Shit Richard take a chill pill buddy.

 

Borg just asked a question. And had a valid assumption if it was cut. I can imagine what that Vista Roof Weighs, that is shit load of tempered glass sitting high up in the chassis. Would not suprise me at all if it had been cut.

 

 

Matthew

Edited December 1, 2007 by matthewq4b

[hbalek]

I was just asking for Christ sake!

 

The MKX lost its 20" rims before debut for the same reason! There is precedence for this! I've seen this happened countless times with vehicles I planned to buy so I'm growing shell-shocked about Ford's incomplete promises and have come to expect things like this to happen.

 

Remember when the MKX was called the Aviator! Guess what we didn't get to see when the Aviator became the MKX?

 

 

The 2008 MKX I saw at the dealer in Limited Edition trim has 20" chrome wheels.

[UltimateX]

Shit Richard take a chill pill buddy.

 

Borg just asked a question. And had a valid assumption if it was cut. I can imagine what that Vista Roof Weighs, that is shit load of tempered glass sitting high up in the chassis. Would not suprise me at all if it had been cut.

Matthew

 

I believe that they use acrylic, but there is a lot of supporting hardware up there.

[wildosvt]

I would imagine that Oakville does not have the ability to run 20" wheels in their sytem, That would be my thoughts about them not being a from the factory option. This was a problem at AAI when the 05 Mustang came out. Thy could not run 18" wheels in their system at the time. So all you could get were 17"max

[Blueblood]

I notice the Flex in the Extreme Makeover photo has a dinky little moonroof instead of the Vista Roof it has been seen in. Does this mean the Vista Roof is gone or are there two choices (unlike the Edge)?

 

 

It's an option, and by looking at the wheels and non-HID headlights it's a base trim model. What I don't get is why Ford keeps using old man light blue for all their media/promotional/ad cars.. And how they gave away a car that isn't built yet..

[RichardJensen]

Shit Richard take a chill pill buddy.

 

Borg just asked a question. And had a valid assumption if it was cut. I can imagine what that Vista Roof Weighs, that is shit load of tempered glass sitting high up in the chassis. Would not suprise me at all if it had been cut.

Matthew

I guess I get annoyed when people assume, perpetually, that a change in configuration from what is originally spec'ed is due to 'cost cutting' (when in fact 20" rims and the Vista Roof would both be profit items), or some other similarly bogus line of reasoning as in "fuel economy".

 

In fact, the Flex would have been engineered with this as a =must have= feature. Ford is looking to amortize the cost of developing this (actually its supplier wants this) on as many vehicles as possible. The MKS is also getting the Vista Roof mechanism (but without the 'Vista Roof' treatment). This roof combo is one of Ford's exclusives, at least for the moment, and it's something that they're not going to toss.

[RichardJensen]

I would imagine that Oakville does not have the ability to run 20" wheels in their sytem, That would be my thoughts about them not being a from the factory option. This was a problem at AAI when the 05 Mustang came out. Thy could not run 18" wheels in their system at the time. So all you could get were 17"max

Really? That's crazy. I had no idea that there were those kind of limitations at an assembly plant.

 

And there you go. 20"ers are now available on the MKX, ergo, whatever the problem is, it's been resolved.

[rkisler]

It's not done to improve fuel economy. Fuel economy is measured off a base model. You know how the label says, "Actual mileage may vary..."? Well it goes on to list 'options' as one of the variables.

 

 

As to why 20" rims were axed from your MKX, well, who knows? They're not standard equipment, they're in fact, sold as a profitable option, ergo they wouldn't've been cut for cost cutting purposes. Maybe preliminary orders from dealers suggested the take rate wounldn't be high enough.

 

Maybe you should stop assuming that what happens is due to incompetence and cost cutting.

 

Richard,

 

Fuel economy is not measured on the base model, but one with 33% options IIRC. I can guarantee you that there is management of options and option groups to help manage weight and fuel economy. It's not really for cost cutting per se. Of course Ford would enjoy having the extra profits associated with the option, but if it resulsts in expensive weight reduction actions or expensive design changes to offset the weight, it might not make sense. Large wheels and tires and sunroofs are two critical areas as they weigh a lot (particularly the Vista Roof). I'm not sure what's going on with the Flex (maybe offering 2 roofs?), but it's inconceivable to me that Ford would not offer the Vista Roof.

[matthewq4b]

I believe that they use acrylic, but there is a lot of supporting hardware up there.

 

 

I wonder how stable that acrylic will be over time with constant UV exposure and exposure to sub zero temps. Acrylic tends to degrade over with constant U.V exposure throw in few extremly cold days and your begging for cracks. I have seen it happen in thepast with acrylics. I would have figured that it would be laminated Tempered glass just like windsheilds to insure UV resistance and Cold weather stability.

 

 

Matthew

[RichardJensen]

Richard,

 

Fuel economy is not measured on the base model, but one with 33% options IIRC. I can guarantee you that there is management of options and option groups to help manage weight and fuel economy. It's not really for cost cutting per se. Of course Ford would enjoy having the extra profits associated with the option, but if it resulsts in expensive weight reduction actions or expensive design changes to offset the weight, it might not make sense. Large wheels and tires and sunroofs are two critical areas as they weigh a lot (particularly the Vista Roof). I'm not sure what's going on with the Flex (maybe offering 2 roofs?), but it's inconceivable to me that Ford would not offer the Vista Roof.

It's my understanding, though, that the mfr. is given leeway regarding the options on the test vehicle. Also, the Vista Roof--perhaps as installed on the MKS, instead of the Edge/MKX (e.g. without the full roof panel)--was part of the Flex spec, with Fields saying last year that the Flex would turn in highway MPG figures in the mid 20s.

 

A more pertinent question is what was up with the EHMO Flex. Was it a one-of-a-kind 2008 model (can't be designated a 2009, as it was 'sold' before Jan 1)? I mean, there is no Flex assembly line running right now, so it seems odd to conclude that any extra bit installed on it is indicative of what will be in the actual production model.

[rkisler]

I would imagine that Oakville does not have the ability to run 20" wheels in their sytem, That would be my thoughts about them not being a from the factory option. This was a problem at AAI when the 05 Mustang came out. Thy could not run 18" wheels in their system at the time. So all you could get were 17"max

 

20" wheels were planned from the get-go for the Edge/MKX, so I doubt there are any issues at Oakville. If they were pulled for a period of time, it was probably due to some other reason.

 

However, you do point out something that many people don't realize. Tire and wheel complexity might seem to be a mundane issue, but can be very difficult to manage in the assembly plant. In most cases, tire mounting/balancing is done in the assembly plant, and space is can be somewhat constrained. Bringing in mounted tires to the plant often is not a solution as it is a sticky issue with the CAW/UAW.

[Michael Reynolds]

Well 20 inchers are an option on both the Edge and MKX.

 

I don't understand why so much fuss was made about a moonroof especially when it appears (clear as day) on the Flex's Build Your Own site that a regular moonroof and a panoramic version are both available.

 

Also, didn't Ford pre-assemble dashboards for Dearborn Truck and then ship them there as one piece read for installation?

[rkisler]

It's my understanding, though, that the mfr. is given leeway regarding the options on the test vehicle. Also, the Vista Roof--perhaps as installed on the MKS, instead of the Edge/MKX (e.g. without the full roof panel)--was part of the Flex spec, with Fields saying last year that the Flex would turn in highway MPG figures in the mid 20s.

 

A more pertinent question is what was up with the EHMO Flex. Was it a one-of-a-kind 2008 model (can't be designated a 2009, as it was 'sold' before Jan 1)? I mean, there is no Flex assembly line running right now, so it seems odd to conclude that any extra bit installed on it is indicative of what will be in the actual production model.

 

The weights are calculated on the 33% option mix. So you have to roll up the total option count. For instance, if 18" tires are optional on the base series and standard on the the up series, you have to include ((base series% X option rate%) + up series%)= total rate. So managing the options is (unfortunately) not totally based on customer demand nor maximum profits. In some cases, heavy options might even have to be constrained. It's not so much minor weight variations. The big deal is when the weight moves the vehicle into the next weight class. Then the rollers on the dynos are adjusted for more resistance which lowers fuel economy. Most Ford vehicles are usually on the ragged edge of the weight class, so there isn't much wiggle room.

 

I'm not sure where the Edge is right now in its final stages prior to production preparation. Presumably the weights are well known at this point, and the optional equipment has been designed is is nearly ready for volume production. TheOldWizard might be able to tell us if the final engine/transmission calibrations are done, but I would suspect they are. Ford should have a precise idea of the weight class used for testing and the associated fuel economy. So at this point, one of the few things you have to play with is fiddling with the makeup of the option packages prior to brochures being published.

 

The Edge site lists 2 moonroofs -- a small one for $890 and a vista roof for $1,510 with each being optional even on the Limited, so I assume that's close to where they'll end up.

[rmc523]

The 2008 MKX I saw at the dealer in Limited Edition trim has 20" chrome wheels.

 

They are available for the 08 model year now, they were not available at launch, as it was believed they would be.

[DCK]

It's not done to improve fuel economy. Fuel economy is measured off a base model. You know how the label says, "Actual mileage may vary..."? Well it goes on to list 'options' as one of the variables.

 

 

As to why 20" rims were axed from your MKX, well, who knows? They're not standard equipment, they're in fact, sold as a profitable option, ergo they wouldn't've been cut for cost cutting purposes. Maybe preliminary orders from dealers suggested the take rate wounldn't be high enough.

 

Maybe you should stop assuming that what happens is due to incompetence and cost cutting.

Uh Oh, Richard got his panties in a bunch. Better not post anything other than Ford is the greatest and every decision they ever made were 100% the best decision anyone could ever make. All hail the Mighty Billy Ford.

 

 

Anyways

 

 

Does Ford want to Flex to launch and be stale? I mean the production version debuts 14 months before it launches and now it is plastered on TV 8 months before it launches. WTF?

 

Did someone at GM move to Ford? GM though still takes the cake with the advertising the Camaro and Vaperware Volt.

Edited December 1, 2007 by DCK

[Local1111]

The Edge site lists 2 moonroofs -- a small one for $890 and a vista roof for $1,510 with each being optional even on the Limited, so I assume that's close to where they'll end up.

 

 

Have you been smoking CRACK again?

 

Just tell everyone you really don't know what your saying

Edited December 1, 2007 by Local1111

[RichardJensen]

He typed Edge when he meant Flex

[Edstock]

Does Ford want to Flex to launch and be stale? I mean the production version debuts 14 months before it launches and now it is plastered on TV 8 months before it launches. WTF?

 

I suspect that Ford willingly traded newness buzz to make sure it doesn't get the Aztek Surprise reaction from the consumer. As well, Ford just didn't have other product that could be shown as the Mull's new management made changes like the 500 overhaul.