Detroit Free Press: UAW health trust faces big doubts

[whereswaldo]

What happens if there is hyper-inflation and the return on the investment doesn't keep up? Also, if the fund gets into a precarious state, the union will have an excuse to extract payroll deductions to bolster it. That could be an incentive to let it dwindle. I have always looked at the union like I look at the government. Once they take my money, it is gone. I belong to them, but it is more of a prisoner-warden relationship.

Let's all remember that this VEBA, was a CONCESSION !! Last I remember you have given up something ! We have consoildated classifications, given up alot of COLA for infinity and beyond, reaffirmed our loss of 3 % raise from last contract, raised costs to most past retirees, also for present and future retirees, allowed a 50% +/- pay cut to several thousand future employees, cut their healthcare more than ours, pension ditti,etc,etc. Yes anything is possible but as far as VEBA, if it does begin to fall short, it will be made up in a combo of reduced benefits/higher co-pays,deductibles,restrictions. It will be FORCED to make it 80 yrs. UAW went after future retirees(post 2010), and employees not yet hired. Non-voters.

LEVEL, any article can be made to present may diff, views. After all its not a thesis. I agree about the lack of detailed info but that is also whats spawning this same article. Scant information. And many brothers/sisters here and in the plants are starved. You reap what you sow. Whether deserved or not... JMO, but since I hope to rely on this VEBA some day, information is paramount.

[Trimdingman]

What if the world ends tomorrow?? What if the Chineese or japaneese take over the US, then what?

 

I have government health care. Ford likes it. I don't. I have to pay high income taxes for an inferior system. In fact, I do not go to the doctor because I believe that under our health care system, I am better off just taking my chances. Ford wants you to have the same system. It could be that VEBA was designed to fail so that you would push for government health care. The union also wants social health care. They want social everything. I don't trust them as far as the distance between their lips and Castro's ass.

Edited December 26, 2007 by Trimdingman

[whereswaldo]

I have government health care. Ford likes it. I don't. I have to pay high income taxes for an inferior system. In fact, I do not go to the doctor because I believe that under our health care system, I am better off just taking my chances. Ford wants you to have the same system. It could be that VEBA was designed to fail so that you would push for government health care. The union also wants social health care. They want social everything. I don't trust them as far as the distance between their lips and Castro's ass.

IF this 5% healthcare inflation rate being used for VEBA is true, UAW must know something about future healthcare in U.S. and the next 4-8 yrs in Washington,D.C.

[now]

If you don't trust the UAW, I have a game plan for you. Take the buy-out and tune in to Rush Limbaugh every day. He has all the answers. Maybe you can become a millionare like him by bashing Bill Clinton on a daily basis. Maybe you can hook up with a Bush or Cheney family member and live happily ever after. Maybe you can become a pioneer for GW. The system that wants to protect big insurance companies and drug companies (who ,by the way, are all pioneers who have donated millions of dollars to the Republicans) will sell out working class Americans for the sole purpose of making a profit. I will take my chances with my brothers and sisters in the UAW who have fought for working men and women for my entire lifetime. The very people that have polarized politics in this country have infiltrated our ranks and it's about time that it stops. If you don't want to be a part of it, take a buy-out and sign up for a job at the closest temp agency. The owners of these agencies are also pioneers. Do you see a pattern here. Solidarity is the answer.

[Captain723]

IF this 5% healthcare inflation rate being used for VEBA is true, UAW must know something about future healthcare in U.S. and the next 4-8 yrs in Washington,D.C.

Trust me...the UAW does not have a crystal ball!! The financial professionals are pretty confident that we will get 12% return on investment. Lets remember that if there looks to be a short fall in 4 yrs we re-negotiate a new contract!! This is a very serious issue and creates many concerns, but if we know the concerns we can watch for these concerns. Again remember Ford is saying that they feel they do not have to pay for health care for retirees. They feel that this is only a benefit for the life of the agreement. The UAW also felt that in the present economy and the auto industry the likelyhood of one or more of the auto company's going bankrupt is extremely high. Again when doing this VEBA the UAW was looking out for our best interest!

 

If the UAW thought that it would have failed then they would have done a lesser amount. It costs apprx 1.4billion for a new vehicle launch. Why in the hell would Ford give the UAW 14 billion if they weren't trying to work together to fix the company. Hurting its members does not help the UAW or the company!! Again..it is a 4yr agreement and we need to monitor where the returns are and where we think that it needs to be. If there is a shortfall then we will renegotiate more money in the new agreement!! If Ford doesn't turn around it will not matter to anyone anyways! we will all be fked!

[Bored of Pisteon]

I didn't read the article because I have more productive things to do and besides the point. The Detroit Free Press is a piece of garbage liberal propaganda mouthpiece along the lines of the New York Times anyway. They purposely published that article knowing full well that all the auto plants are shut down for the holiday and that was just to sell newspapers.

 

As far as the VEBA is concerned... I look at it as being short for VASELINE ENGAGED BUTTRAMMING ACTION.

 

Your union doesn't want you to know the full details and neither does the company.

[Captain723]

I didn't read the article because I have more productive things to do and besides the point. The Detroit Free Press is a piece of garbage liberal propaganda mouthpiece along the lines of the New York Times anyway. They purposely published that article knowing full well that all the auto plants are shut down for the holiday and that was just to sell newspapers.

 

As far as the VEBA is concerned... I look at it as being short for VASELINE ENGAGED BUTTRAMMING ACTION.

 

Your union doesn't want you to know the full details and neither does the company.

More educational information from an adult with the education of a 5th grader...LOL I bet Dark is proud of me!! Save your vomit for your family gifts,dumbass!

[whereswaldo]

If you don't trust the UAW, I have a game plan for you. Take the buy-out and tune in to Rush Limbaugh every day. He has all the answers. Maybe you can become a millionare like him by bashing Bill Clinton on a daily basis. Maybe you can hook up with a Bush or Cheney family member and live happily ever after. Maybe you can become a pioneer for GW. The system that wants to protect big insurance companies and drug companies (who ,by the way, are all pioneers who have donated millions of dollars to the Republicans) will sell out working class Americans for the sole purpose of making a profit. I will take my chances with my brothers and sisters in the UAW who have fought for working men and women for my entire lifetime. The very people that have polarized politics in this country have infiltrated our ranks and it's about time that it stops. If you don't want to be a part of it, take a buy-out and sign up for a job at the closest temp agency. The owners of these agencies are also pioneers. Do you see a pattern here. Solidarity is the answer.

You know, I cant stand Rush. He drones on and whines alot like you. All HAIL ..." NOW "....KEEPER OF UNION TRUST !! :bowdown:

[whereswaldo]

If you don't trust the UAW, I have a game plan for you. Take the buy-out and

Heres a better plan...if the UAW cant stand the heat , get the f**k out of the kitchen. And out of the people business in the US of A. People go to their union meetings, ask their reps for info all the time, even come on here and play these stupid games with your like. And other than scant info or little info or blank stares or condensending "take the buyout...don't let the door hit ya in the ass" comments , we also get the I know something that you don't but I cant tell ya B.S.

You know what ? If the union can't trust us with truth on a timely basis, then just go back to 1980. Mass layoffs to adjust to market conditions, go to a National seniority so seniority means something instead of back alley local politics. The union doesnt want to dare go to that. But the alternative is having people with 20-30-yrs sen in JSP indef. while 5 yr guys never have a break in the action. Yeah that sounds reasonable to me. NOT !

Also when the union/ford come up with a real buyout, they'll get their numbers. Otherwise whatever the normal projected attrition is....is what they're gonna get. If you and Level or Captain or some of these others are privy to anything its cuz your a pimple on a real reps ass and can only hear when they're standing. So you are only getting half the story and anything else is full of s**t.

[Furious1Auto]

I am not calling for blind obedience guys!

 

All I am saying is read the fucking article! You guys are sooooo good at picking apart everything soemebody has to say in writining on this board - why can't you do the same with a press article?

 

Let me paste a few "blurbs" from the article" for you :

 

FROM THE SUBTITLE: "Some experts, workers fear retiree funding will run out"

How many experts - 1 out of 10? What kind of expert? Better than the top in the world actuarial firms Ford and UAW hired? And some workers? Ha ha ha come on get real!

 

FROM THE ARTICLE:

 

1.) could run out of money much sooner than the 80 years union President Ron Gettelfinger said it would last.

Oh it "could". No one ever said that probability and statistics was a sure science, everything is possible, including it "could last longer", we "could" get national health care. C'mon.

 

2.) Industry experts say the scant public information about the trust -- known as a voluntary employees' beneficiary association, or VEBA -- provides little comfort that current benefits will remain as promised for hundreds of thousands of UAW retirees.

Experts don't base such decisions on "scant" information. When predicting out 80 years, the compounding of interest and errors means the world, you need all of the correct info, nothing scant!!! Experts my ass!!!

 

3.) Automakers are paying an estimated $52 billion to shift $88 billion in retiree health care liabilities to the union-run trust -- leaving about $36 billion unfunded.

No shit sherlock, that's why they did it. It is the future liability they are saving, which we are making up in interest. Just like you putting 25 dollars a week away for life nets you millions 80 years out. It is not rocket science, they bought out future debt so they can make future profit. We took on future debt to pay for it with interest on money and investments. They would never fund it 100%!!!! Why would they do that? So we could make millions off the interest on their money. It wouldn't save them a dime that way. Stupid, stupid reporter.

 

4.) The plan assumes health care inflation falls to 5% by 2013 and stays at that level, even though it has averaged almost double that rate in recent decades

No shit! Just like Ford wants a cut of 5% task per year of employees. How many years could you do that before no one worked there? Ridiculous! If health care continued in double digits forever, then the goverment will shoot you because it will cost too much to put a cast on your arm! These assumptions were done by the world's leading experts, who are we to argue? Look at what they say at the end of the article in # 11!!

 

5.) They've got ridiculous assumptions on health care costs," said Lance Wallach, a VEBA consultant in the New York City area

A VEBA consultant? based on "scant information" tthinks he knows better than the three top firms in the world? Enough said!

 

6.) Union members and outside experts said the UAW will have difficulty keeping its commitments unless the federal government has a national health care system within 5-15 years.

What Union members know enough to say anything? Who are they and why are they working at Ford? Outside experts? who? where? #10 is the only guy you quote!!! Hahahahaha

 

7.) People familiar with the VEBA planning dispute those assessments, saying their analysis of life expectancies, investment returns and health care cost inflation shows otherwise.

Okay, something that makes sense! People familiar with the VEBA say the so called expert people with scant info are wrong. That makes sense to me.

 

8.) The UAW would not comment for this report and hasn't publicly shared a detailed analysis that supports the promise

So what are all of these "experts" basing their fucking decisions on?

 

9.) The UAW, like the automakers, won't divulge details about ages of members and other factors that are crucial to determining the plan's soundness.

Again, then what are your "experts" basing their opinions on. The article admits that they lack the info needed to judge soundness!!!!! Holy shit!!!! Are you following me guys!!

 

10.) Jim Robinson, a skilled trades worker at GM's assembly plant in Arlington, Texas, said he didn't see how it could last. "But I haven't seen much," he said. "

Oh. that's a classic!!!!! Hahahahahahahah!

 

11.) Ultimately, though, Raleigh and others argue that politics or other factors must begin to slow the rate of inflation, or the country will go bankrupt.

Oh so your article against the VEBA, also assume US bankruptcy! I see. Great article, nice fact finding!

You guys see what I am saying? That article is absolute bullshit. It contradicts itself without any factual basis based on so called experts and the feelings of uniformed members. Great.

 

Again I am not calloing for blind obedience, but you guys are pretty good at picking apart things in writing. Get my drift?

There is no doubt that the whole article is propagated just like those at contract time, or any other article vilanizing the UAW or hoping for our failure. It all stems from the same fact. But after much failure of past VEBA's how can you be so sure it will sustain itself for any period let alone 80 years, C'mon Level! And yes we are very good at picking apart what is written it is what we do, debate!

Great, another "Moore"on! If you think that social health care program is going to solve our problems, you put way too much faith in your government that you should. One only needs to look to Canada to see that social health care is not the awnser. John Stossel from Nighline had a good story on social health care. Our current system is better than any program the Dems could think up. Hell, Hillary "rotten" C. had the balls to say if she is elected, the price of oil would fall. What a stupid bitch! Goes to show you just how bad they want to control how much profeit you can make. Communism in a pants suit!

I take issue with you calling me a "Moore"on you moron, but do agree with the dems motivation and tactics. I hated Micheal Moore for Fahrenheit 9/11 and thought him un-American and foolish. Watch SiCKO and you will see how badly the powers that be have you snowed, Their are elderly Canadians that live withing 5 miles of the Ambassador bridge that will not step foot onto U.S. soil because if they got hurt inccidentally, or had a heart attack they would not have medical coverage! It's is all a sherade kept by the vested interests, insurance companies, pharmecutical companies, doctors! None of it is true, wait times, quality of care! The U.S. is 38th in the world in quality of care. Just watch the movie, Moore might be a nut, the Dems are definatly power hungry, but the people he talks to in the documentary are sincere. I'm damn good at picking out actors and people who are fake and the movie is a real accounting of social health care in many other countries that already have it!

Edited December 27, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[level]

If you and Level or Captain or some of these others are privy to anything its cuz your a pimple on a real reps ass and can only hear when they're standing. So you are only getting half the story and anything else is full of s**t.

 

Hey whereswaldo, I thought we were going to play nice? I have the whole story, you have the half. One of the reasons that the press- or anyone else can't plug numbers in the formula is that they need birthdates, ages of all employees, historical retirement data, etc.

 

This is not information the Union or Company gives out due to privacy. I only asked evryone to look at how the article was written before they shot their gun. That is all.

 

I don't really believe that the ass pimple comment was an appropriate response to our "truce". I have tried to tell everything I know, and all it get's me is headaches. You say you want to be informed, but when you are you scrutinize and disagree. You may be surprised at who some of the people on here really are, some of them do know what they are saying, even if they get a little overboard sometimes. I tried to help everyone see the reasoning behind what was really negotiated from the hype, while it was happening. I am sincere about trying to be informative, and I will continue to do so as long as it is appreciated. If it isn't fine, I won't waste my time or yours.

[whereswaldo]

Hey whereswaldo, I thought we were going to play nice? I have the whole story, you have the half. One of the reasons that the press- or anyone else can't plug numbers in the formula is that they need birthdates, ages of all employees, historical retirement data, etc.

This is not information the Union or Company gives out due to privacy. I only asked evryone to look at how the article was written before they shot their gun. That is all.

I don't really believe that the ass pimple comment was an appropriate response to our "truce". I have tried to tell everything I know, and all it get's me is headaches. You say you want to be informed, but when you are you scrutinize and disagree. You may be surprised at who some of the people on here really are, some of them do know what they are saying, even if they get a little overboard sometimes. I tried to help everyone see the reasoning behind what was really negotiated from the hype, while it was happening. I am sincere about trying to be informative, and I will continue to do so as long as it is appreciated. If it isn't fine, I won't waste my time or yours.

How did your name get in that post ?? Must of been SOS ! You know everything IS a conspiracy. lol....Anyway you may only be half right. Me(we) dont even have half the story. Its more like zero. With that said, this BS article is nothing more than what most folks were trying to figure out 6 months ago.Folks like us on BON. Since you have the whole story maybe you can enlighten us as to how in the world any group of experts came up with a 5% inflation rate for healthcare ?????? You dont have to post any birthdates, mine is top secret but I am 48 next year , am a Capricorn and am not a female. Yes I also know what HIPPA is so no need to explain that one. Understand this....although I consider most of our contract a big Concession, I do not disagree with all of it....I realize the state of the company...I know the status quo could not continue. I believe we are on the same page there, maybe. Here's a task for you. If you have the whole story, why dont you post a pdf. of the packages, who's elligible, related text, before Tulsa and Nashville get any of it and it becomes public. You see over the last yr or so I have seen a lot of guys/gals helping others by doing the same. Does this change the alignment of the stars ?? Absolutely not . But after you have been sitting on the edge of a cliff for 6-7 yrs as we live through the Visteon debacle, 2 useless flowbacks(JMO)without enforcement of 1:1's or 1:2's, buyouts that did virtually nothing to the trades population, and now I hear from guys with the whole story that Union/Ford are STILL fighting over RTO's.(By the way where is Ford's incentive to keep to solid RTO's now that they have their contract signed sealed and delivered ?? The one sure fire time the union CAN draw the proverbial line in the sand and settle things in black and white). So after all this unsettling over the yrs, leads me to the punchline...Peace of mind. Thats what people get when they have timely, truthful information. It sure made of diff for me when Pioneer,from Monroe, posted my flowback rankings per trade AND per plant that i signed up for,but my PC wouldnt post. Sorry to ramble but I'll post another on the relationship btw UAW trades and their union later. Trying to keep it respectful. Remember Solidarity is a 2 way street.........

[Trimdingman]

IF this 5% healthcare inflation rate being used for VEBA is true, UAW must know something about future healthcare in U.S. and the next 4-8 yrs in Washington,D.C.

 

Even the best actuaries can only guess at future economies. They are hired to settle monetary disputes. There is still usually a winner and a loser. Both sides take the gamble, based on a lot of guesswork. In the real world, shit happens. Bhutto's assassination could throw a big monkey wrench into things if it sparks a civil war in Pakistan. I, for one, do not plan to retire until the world settles down. The decoding of the DNA molecule could lead to extended longevity as causes of aging are genetically addressed. Maybe that is why Ford is moving away from pensions and into 401-Ks. If people retired at 60, and lived to be 150, that's a lot of pension cheques.

[ktpworker69]

If you don't trust the UAW, I have a game plan for you. Take the buy-out and tune in to Rush Limbaugh every day. He has all the answers. Maybe you can become a millionare like him by bashing Bill Clinton on a daily basis. Maybe you can hook up with a Bush or Cheney family member and live happily ever after. Maybe you can become a pioneer for GW. The system that wants to protect big insurance companies and drug companies (who ,by the way, are all pioneers who have donated millions of dollars to the Republicans) will sell out working class Americans for the sole purpose of making a profit. I will take my chances with my brothers and sisters in the UAW who have fought for working men and women for my entire lifetime. The very people that have polarized politics in this country have infiltrated our ranks and it's about time that it stops. If you don't want to be a part of it, take a buy-out and sign up for a job at the closest temp agency. The owners of these agencies are also pioneers. Do you see a pattern here. Solidarity is the answer.

but slick willy didnt sell out working class americans by passing NAFTA into a law? the democraps are for the working man? thats why they jack our fucking taxes everytime they get a chance, that really makes me wanna vote democrat.

 

as far as trusting the UAW.....fuck them, tell me exactly what did the union get for you in this contract? gettlefinger says "we have to give back"......im tired of fucking giving, arent you? how about the people that make 100 mil a year give a little??

 

if the almighty UAW would get with ford and come up with a buyout package worthy of the time and shit ive been through, id be out the door in a minute

[davdog]

but slick willy didnt sell out working class americans by passing NAFTA into a law? the democraps are for the working man? thats why they jack our fucking taxes everytime they get a chance, that really makes me wanna vote democrat.

 

as far as trusting the UAW.....fuck them, tell me exactly what did the union get for you in this contract? gettlefinger says "we have to give back"......im tired of fucking giving, arent you? how about the people that make 100 mil a year give a little??

 

if the almighty UAW would get with ford and come up with a buyout package worthy of the time and shit ive been through, id be out the door in a minute

 

WOW, your post makes me want to throw up. What a pussy. "the time and shit ive been through?" You worked and you were paid so what the fuck are you talking about? You'll never be out the door unless they drag you out the door. I'll tell you what, why don't you go shop your skills around Kentucky and come back and tell us the number of nibbles you had that compare to what you're getting in your oh so horrible job at Ford.

 

If you're so tired of giving then man up and don't give an inch. Tell us why it is that you personally have to give anything. You don't! You can say screw you and walk. They could pee on your head once a day and all you'd do is bitch, but you wouldn't leave.

 

I hope you don't have any sons.

[lquidspine]

My god people so the detroit papers need to sell some papers while all auto workers are off on christmas shutdown,chill out please .

 

Enough and by enough i mean a LARGE majority of our brothers and sisters thought this was a good enough deal to pass by a 79 % margin we will know by the end of this contract in what shape VEBA is really in we can do nothing about it now its done......

 

Those of us that feel it will fail will be either proven right or wrong within the next 6 years in my humble opinion ,If Ron and the boys are right I will never say another word about the 3% raise they gave themselves last year at the 06 CC because if they can ensure our retiree's healthcare then i will admit I was wrong and they will have my full support.

 

I'f I am proven right(god i hope not ,not only for my dad's sake but hundreds of thousands of others) Then I will support any means necassary to remove anyone that had anything to do with this contract out of any UAW office period.

 

but the main message here is love have a good holiday season and lets hope for the best not only in 08 but in years to come period.

[butthead]

You wont have to work to hard trying to get rid of the so called leaders who fabricated this mess, they will be long gone sitting pretty at some company related to the VEBA deal along with therir friends and family. Guaranteeeeeeed!

[Captain723]

You wont have to work to hard trying to get rid of the so called leaders who fabricated this mess, they will be long gone sitting pretty at some company related to the VEBA deal along with therir friends and family. Guaranteeeeeeed!

All the things the UAW has done for you and you think that would happen. Let me just sell out 50,000 workers at Ford and then take a kick back from some vendor. You truly need to get a life and do some research on what the UAW has done for all of its members over the years! I am not saying that there were not mistakes made, but you can count them on one hand and you can also see where they have gained it back 3 fold in following contracts. Wake up and have a hot cup of STFU!

[whereswaldo]

My god people so the detroit papers need to sell some papers while all auto workers are off on christmas shutdown,chill out please .

Enough and by enough i mean a LARGE majority of our brothers and sisters thought this was a good enough deal to pass by a 79 % margin we will know by the end of this contract in what shape VEBA is really in we can do nothing about it now its done......

Those of us that feel it will fail will be either proven right or wrong within the next 6 years in my humble opinion ,If Ron and the boys are right I will never say another word about the 3% raise they gave themselves last year at the 06 CC because if they can ensure our retiree's healthcare then i will admit I was wrong and they will have my full support.

I'f I am proven right(god i hope not ,not only for my dad's sake but hundreds of thousands of others) Then I will support any means necassary to remove anyone that had anything to do with this contract out of any UAW office period.

:reading: Presently chilling......... Just what did ee's in main Ford facilities lose with this contract that is in the present and a tangible form ? Not a whole lot. Pay stays the same, healthcare pretty much, ditto on other main bennies. VEBA wont affect most for many yrs(Gettel will be gone), they're not having their pay cut to a barely living wage, they arent the ones going to get basically a 401K for a pension, and also arent the ones dishing out a ton of $$ for health, either in premiums,co-pays or other out of pocket costs. So that 79% isnt a surprise. We wont really have an idea about VEBA at next contract, Its too soon, VEBA will only have been administered for <2 yrs by that point in time. And as much as I put down VEBA, as I said before, it will survive, because UAW will make it survive(if it has to). If need be, you'd be surprised how much can be saved by benefit changes to a health plan. So it is what it is and we'll have to live with it. Happy New Year to all Ford ACHers and hoping they all get placed in '08. (And there's a Santa, and Easter Bunny and ............)

[butthead]

OK,

 

Plant Chairman or Skilled trades Chairman who get paid 12hrs 7days a week and are not there 40hrs while the rest of us catch hell by some lame a butt supervisor. When the membership starts screaming about this crap his name disappears from the drots and he's paid by Labor relations. and this is only a month after he's elected.

 

The union not supporting its members on contractors working on jobs or projects while our members are not fully utilized or in some cases only on 40 hours while contractors working 6 days.

 

The change on retirees health care mid-contract by a vote of 51%. NOT!

 

This is the most questionable organization I belong to and I hope it will be the last.

 

Anyone else have any horror stories to hijack this thread.

[Bored of Pisteon]

More educational information from an adult with the education of a 5th grader...LOL I bet Dark is proud of me!! Save your vomit for your family gifts,dumbass!

 

It sure seems odd that he hasn't been around in a while and you have been on here more prominent on these forums the past week or so... I SMELL A RAT AND A KEYBOARD COMMANDO WITH A SPLIT PERSONALITY!

[Captain723]

OK,

 

Plant Chairman or Skilled trades Chairman who get paid 12hrs 7days a week and are not there 40hrs while the rest of us catch hell by some lame a butt supervisor. When the membership starts screaming about this crap his name disappears from the drots and he's paid by Labor relations. and this is only a month after he's elected.

 

The union not supporting its members on contractors working on jobs or projects while our members are not fully utilized or in some cases only on 40 hours while contractors working 6 days.

 

The change on retirees health care mid-contract by a vote of 51%. NOT!

 

This is the most questionable organization I belong to and I hope it will be the last.

 

Anyone else have any horror stories to hijack this thread.

obviously your ignorance of the contract is reason you are so disturbed. Chairman only get paid 12hrs 5 days and 8 hrs on weekend and holidays. Skilled trades chairman get equivalant hrs that they would be working on the floor.

There will always be an arguement with fully utilized. There is no mistaken what the UAW's stance is though. So get your head out of your ass and open your eyes. If your reps could get you 12 hrs a day they would. Do you think that the company just offers this shit up?

I hope it is your last organization also...attitudes like this you should be a salaried fk!

Edited December 30, 2007 by Captain723

[Captain723]

It sure seems odd that he hasn't been around in a while and you have been on here more prominent on these forums the past week or so... I SMELL A RAT AND A KEYBOARD COMMANDO WITH A SPLIT PERSONALITY!

come on...I am not that bad. He probably got kicked off or something. If so, I am sure he will be back as DARK 12345 or something!! I do go commando though...case anyone is wondering!

[dark270]

come on...I am not that bad. He probably got kicked off or something. If so, I am sure he will be back as DARK 12345 or something!! I do go commando though...case anyone is wondering!

 

lol too funny!

[Captain723]

lol too funny!

Where have you been??

Was Santa good too you?