Pics of the upcoming Boss in Hot Rod Magazine

[bossed]

My error, I thought bossed was asking about BOSS, the car

 

Dan

 

Hey Dan, thanks for the reply. Yes, I was talking about the engine, or engines? I'm so excited about the possibilities, that I can't stand it! I've always thought there'd be a BOSS MUSTANG, would'nt it be sweet to kick some chevy @ss! Please, FORD, don't let us down. In my mind, if FORD will put these new Boss motors in the MUSTANG, and get them RIGHT, it will create the same kind of enthusiasum and excitement the current MUSTANG enjoyed when it was released to the public.

PS It was hard to write chevy

 

 

Bossed

[68fastback]

Hey Dan, thanks for the reply. Yes, I was talking about the engine, or engines? I'm so excited about the possibilities, that I can't stand it! I've always thought there'd be a BOSS MUSTANG, would'nt it be sweet to kick some chevy @ss! Please, FORD, don't let us down. In my mind, if FORD will put these new Boss motors in the MUSTANG, and get them RIGHT, it will create the same kind of enthusiasum and excitement the current MUSTANG enjoyed when it was released to the public.

PS It was hard to write chevy

Bossed

 

It sure is! ;-)

 

Hey, bossed ...you might also enjoy poking around over on the SU Boss site too, and on the SU Team Shelby site if you haven't been there -- a lot of good enthusiast folks mostly Mustang and Shelby oriented ...it's like one big family ;-)

 

I'm 68fastback over there too.

 

Dan

[fbmphil]

How long before Ford starts talking publicly about the Boss/Hurricane engine?

 

Sometime this summer from what I've deduced.

[ray101988]

Sometime this summer from what I've deduced.

 

Ford told the media that they have more F150 news at the chicago show. They said there was going to be something that workers would like.

[Ford-150]

Ford told the media that they have more F150 news at the chicago show. They said there was going to be something that workers would like.

but im not sure if that will be the news.....they still have not released the payload and tow ratings yet and that is probably more important to workers than hp

 

maybe the 5.4 will have a shit load of tq.....but i believe it will be the payload/tow rating and maybe a heavy payload or sport(FX2) package

[RichardJensen]

Ford offered the first test drive of the F150 to the journalist that came closest to actual payload and tow ratings.

 

Frankly, such a maneuver is just this side of showboating.

 

I mean, we =get= that Ford's pickup is going to bury the competition--that Ford's pickup will be able to haul enough dirt to physically =BURY= the competition--but there's a thin line between making the best case for the strength of your product and showboating.

 

And this seems something like showboating.

 

My guess is minimum 12,000lbs towing and 3500lbs payload on the LWB extended and crew cabs. I also expect a 4500lb payload on the standard cab with the 'payload' package.

 

I expect the diesel will bump up the towing numbers by about a thousand pounds, while the payload numbers will stay the same (that's more about the springs and the frame than the engine, anyway).

Edited January 22, 2008 by RichardJensen

[Ford-150]

My guess is minimum 12,000lbs towing and 3500lbs payload on the LWB extended and crew cabs. I also expect a 4500lb payload on the standard cab with the 'payload' package.

 

I expect the diesel will bump up the towing numbers by about a thousand pounds, while the payload numbers will stay the same (that's more about the springs and the frame than the engine, anyway).

that would be VERY juicy!

[Blue II]

I'm looking for my crystal ball

 

Dunno, but I think Ford will keep the BOSS quiet as long as possible because once a formal announce is made there's not as much wiggle room. I think they'll wait till the Bullitt and KR have had their spotlight and then maybe we'll hear something more formal 4Q of this year or very early next -- that's a total guess. I suspect there are (or will be very soon) BOSS engines in mules already on the street but without my crystal ball, who knows? ;-) I suspect we'll see actual availability in 1H'09 ...all just guesses.

 

Dan

 

When they do, one selling point will be better FE than the outgoing 6.8 in the SD.

[matthewq4b]

And do not forget Ethanol is not only produced from Bio Mass But can be and is manufactured from Crude and NG. The ethylene in both are run through a catalyst and hydrated. And you have Fossil fuel derived ethanol. The expansion on the Husky upgrader-ethanol plant ( that I’m working on as we speak) will increase its Ethanol yield by 400K bbl's per day once completed with almost all of that coming from crude and NG.

 

Ethanol does not only come from bio mass. Fossil derived ethanol still makes up the bulk of the Ethanol produced in NA. Ethanol is a waste of time as a motor fuel in the long run.

 

Now since the demand is growing for ethanol it is economically viable to hydrate it from ethylene on much larger scales. But the crude and NG used for its production would yield more road miles if it was converted to Gasoline or Diesel or in the case of NG for Reformation in to Hydrogen for higher yields in Synthetic crude.

 

Large scale ethanol consumption is not going to free us from fossil fuel dependence and in fact may aggravate the problem. As the price of bio feed stocks increase the price of ethanol will increase making it even more economical to produce from fossil fuels.

Eventually Bio mass ethanol will not be able to compete with fossil derived ethanol price wise. There is new tech that will lower the cost of Fossil derived ethanol to a point where Bio ethanol will not be able to compete price wise.

We have effectively found anouther way to consume even more crude oil per road mile than if it was converted to Diesel or Gasoline.

 

Ethanol for motor fuel is not a good idea any way you cut in my opinion. As it does nothing to solve any of the problems it is supposed to.

 

Again special interest groups only caring about what is best for them.

 

And yes Bio Diesel is a far better option to be pushing. Even if it never sees use on public roads there are many many older high fuel consumption diesels used in stationary applications and large motive power applications that would run many times cleaner on it. The emission savings running these on Bio D would have a much larger positive impact on emissions and fossil fuel savings than the current push towards Ethanol.

 

Ethanol is a flash in the pan solution, and once the ramifications of high ethanol consumption are realized it will fall out favour as a motor fuel. And it can go back to where it should be used first and foremost......... in my Whiskey

 

Either way the new boss is going kick no matter what it goes in. The mods are long over due for a replacement the engine family is on the short end of 20 years old now. How time flys eh.

 

 

 

 

Matthew

Edited January 22, 2008 by matthewq4b

[Edstock]

You're right — with current technology. There are a lot of people working on bio-fuels, so maybe there will be good news in the near future.

[ray101988]

You're right — with current technology. There are a lot of people working on bio-fuels, so maybe there will be good news in the near future.

 

Yeah. On Ford's website they say theyre working on it. They dont say how much theyre working on it though. lol.

[ray101988]

And do not forget Ethanol is not only produced from Bio Mass But can be and is manufactured from Crude and NG. The ethylene in both are run through a catalyst and hydrated. And you have Fossil fuel derived ethanol. The expansion on the Husky upgrader-ethanol plant ( that I’m working on as we speak) will increase its Ethanol yield by 400K bbl's per day once completed with almost all of that coming from crude and NG.

 

Ethanol does not only come from bio mass. Fossil derived ethanol still makes up the bulk of the Ethanol produced in NA. Ethanol is a waste of time as a motor fuel in the long run.

 

Now since the demand is growing for ethanol it is economically viable to hydrate it from ethylene on much larger scales. But the crude and NG used for its production would yield more road miles if it was converted to Gasoline or Diesel or in the case of NG for Reformation in to Hydrogen for higher yields in Synthetic crude.

 

Large scale ethanol consumption is not going to free us from fossil fuel dependence and in fact may aggravate the problem. As the price of bio feed stocks increase the price of ethanol will increase making it even more economical to produce from fossil fuels.

Eventually Bio mass ethanol will not be able to compete with fossil derived ethanol price wise. There is new tech that will lower the cost of Fossil derived ethanol to a point where Bio ethanol will not be able to compete price wise.

We have effectively found anouther way to consume even more crude oil per road mile than if it was converted to Diesel or Gasoline.

 

Ethanol for motor fuel is not a good idea any way you cut in my opinion. As it does nothing to solve any of the problems it is supposed to.

 

Again special interest groups only caring about what is best for them.

 

And yes Bio Diesel is a far better option to be pushing. Even if it never sees use on public roads there are many many older high fuel consumption diesels used in stationary applications and large motive power applications that would run many times cleaner on it. The emission savings running these on Bio D would have a much larger positive impact on emissions and fossil fuel savings than the current push towards Ethanol.

 

Ethanol is a flash in the pan solution, and once the ramifications of high ethanol consumption are realized it will fall out favour as a motor fuel. And it can go back to where it should be used first and foremost......... in my Whiskey

 

Either way the new boss is going kick no matter what it goes in. The mods are long over due for a replacement the engine family is on the short end of 20 years old now. How time flys eh.

Matthew

 

 

I heard that using direct injection with the twin turbos on the ecoboost engines is supposed to burn ethanol more efficiently. Do you know if that is true?

[RichardJensen]

Eventually Bio mass ethanol will not be able to compete with fossil derived ethanol price wise.

 

Except the tax breaks for ethanol are based on source, not output product. If ethanol ever reaches a point where it doesn't requires subsidies..... Well, I'm not holding my breath on that one --or-- biodiesel, which as I've pointed out with numbers and yield statistics yields less net energy per acre unless you double crop. And that -includes- the higher energy content of diesel -and- the easier extraction process.

 

But ethanol has dang near achieved 'sacred cow' status, and it's pretty much here to stay in one form or another. You can say what you want from Fort Mac (or, hopefully, Edmonton), Matt, and I may not be quite dry behind the ears down here in South Dakota, but I do know how hard it is to sunset a Congressional subsidy. Especially one that hits this many hot buttons.

[mustang316]

why does eveyone keep bitching about the whole ethanol blender credit when oil/coal are the biggest subsidized industries there are?

[bossed]

I just wish they'd acknowledge it, I'm not a patient man. I'm so sick of seeing those toyota truck commercials. I'd like to see the BOSS engine kick the toyota in the teeth! Also the MUSTANG needs to stay ahead of the pack not behind, like some are predicting. Blue II, whats your assessment?, do you think we'll be satisfied? :shades:

Bossed

[theoldwizard]

...Ethanol is a flash in the pan solution, and once the ramifications of high ethanol consumption are realized it will fall out favour as a motor fuel...

You forget that our legislators, the great scientists and chemical engineers that they are, have legislated ethanol production into existence. With millions being donated to their campaigns by the major distillers (ADM) and fertilizer and seed companies, it will be a long LONG time before we will be getting rid of ethanol.

[Ford-150]

I just wish they'd acknowledge it, I'm not a patient man. I'm so sick of seeing those toyota truck commercials. I'd like to see the BOSS engine kick the toyota in the teeth! Also the MUSTANG needs to stay ahead of the pack not behind, like some are predicting. Blue II, whats your assessment?, do you think we'll be satisfied? :shades:

Bossed

im confident we will be satisfied......even if the competition comes out with something more powerful......the Boss was built to adapt to many different sizes

[theoldwizard]

I heard that using direct injection with the twin turbos on the ecoboost engines is supposed to burn ethanol more efficiently. Do you know if that is true?

Yes, it is more efficient than a non-boosted, no DI engine.

 

That still does not mean the ethanol is a really "good" fuel.

 

Actually a cousin of ethanol, butanol, makes a much better fuel. Better energy density (more energy/pound) and actually can be piped through existing petroleum pipelines (instead of being hauled my truck).

[RichardJensen]

You forget that our legislators, the great scientists and chemical engineers that they are, have legislated ethanol production into existence. With millions being donated to their campaigns by the major distillers (ADM) and fertilizer and seed companies, it will be a long LONG time before we will be getting rid of ethanol.

Oh GOOD LORD am I tired of this.

 

ADM is NOT the 'major distiller'; there are two companies larger than them.

 

Secondly, you want to know who's pushing this? The FARM lobby.

 

Would you people GET YOUR CONSPIRACIES STRAIGHT??????????

 

Good gravy!!! Some people are DENSE.

[RichardJensen]

(instead of being hauled my truck).

And this?????!!!!!

 

It's like Homer:

 

"He didn't give you GAIDS, did he?"

 

Marge: "Geez Louise, you don't even know what you're being paranoid about"

 

Ethanol is hauled by rail car. NOT truck.

 

You want to rag on this product, get your talking points straight.

[30 OTT 6]

Oh GOOD LORD am I tired of this.

 

ADM is NOT the 'major distiller'; there are two companies larger than them.

 

Secondly, you want to know who's pushing this? The FARM lobby.

 

Would you people GET YOUR CONSPIRACIES STRAIGHT??????????

 

Good gravy!!! Some people are DENSE.

 

 

Apparently, it's not a conspiracy after all. ADM has their hands in so many Agri-business sectors that they don't need to be a "major distiller" but just for shits and giggles, they already are a world leader in ethanol production. And, if you don't think that ADM is the major contributer to the FARM lobby then you sir, are out to lunch.

 

I think that you, like so many other "city slickers", associate the farm with images from the Green Acres TV shows. The farm today is a big corporate business. The traditional family farm is going the way of the horse and buggy.

[matthewq4b]

Apparently, it's not a conspiracy after all. ADM has their hands in so many Agri-business sectors that they don't need to be a "major distiller" but just for shits and giggles, they already are a world leader in ethanol production. And, if you don't think that ADM is the major contributer to the FARM lobby then you sir, are out to lunch.

 

I think that you, like so many other "city slickers", associate the farm with images from the Green Acres TV shows. The farm today is a big corporate business. The traditional family farm is going the way of the horse and buggy.

 

 

 

That is true ADM has their hands in many agri businesses. They have a massive Canola processing Plant right here in Lloyd. Right next door to the original Husky Refinery. The rumours are that when the Expansion on the newer plant is done. ADM may buy in to the old Refinery for Bio-D and crude based Ethanol production.

 

And BTW no Ethanol bio crop can match the yields per acre with some of the oil bearing algae’s for Bio D.

Also Richard you keep forgetting virgin plant matter is not the only source for Bio. You do not need to farm to get the Esters for Bio D. There are many many post consumer, commercial and industrial sources of the esters needed for it. And they can even come from byproducts of the Oil Industry. Bio D is much more closed loop process than Bio ethanol

 

 

Ethanol will have a revival for a period of time. Just like originally happened in the 50's with gasohol and ethy mixes.

 

If it stays around, the bulk of production in time will come from the Oil sector not the Agri one.

Basically all the ethanol in gasoline mixes sold in Canada now is 100% fossil fuel derived Ethanol. Crude based Ethanol is already produced with out subsidies. As it is a more cost effective method for producing it than cooking it from Bio Mass.

 

Since it can cooked from Bio mass it is in the best interest of Farmers and agri buissness to push it as it will increase the value of the crops and in turn increase profit or reduce loses per acre.

 

 

Ethanol in time is just going to be another source of revenue for the oil company's. Hell even Husky here advertizes it as Mother Natures Fuel with pictures of wheat fields in the back ground. The closest that ethanol comes to seeing wheat is what is in the fields around the plant. Little do people know almost 100% of it sold here comes from crude oil. The bulk of the ethanol produced here now, is already shipped states side. And yes it is piped in a dedicated Ethanol pipeline.

 

 

Give it time. All it will take is one Media source to get on the ball and do a story on the real source of the bulk of the Ethanol and it will fall from grace as a bio fuel savior so fast it will make your head spin.

 

I refuse to buy any Ethanol mixed fuels as it is a waste of resources and in the long run will do nothing to reduce our dependance on crude oil.

 

And I'm not in Ft Mac right now. I'm in Lloydminster at Huskys head office here working in conjunction with their Petrochemical and Process engineers on the Expansion. Mind you Lloyd is not any better than Ft Mac anyhow, the wind is always blowing here and it usually 10-15F cooler here than in EDM. Not counting wind chill. One day last week we had 90 KPH winds do the math on the wind chill with an ambient -17F with 55 MPH winds. That is a nasty -56F. Bitterly cold that will freeze exposed flesh literally in seconds.

Also Lloyd perpetually stinks like crude oil (from the old refinery) and mix that with sweet sickly smell from the canola plant and it is truly nauseating.

 

 

Matthew

[4 nomor]

All this bio-diesel/ethanol talk is interesting but I read this thread to find out about the new BOSS engine.....

[RichardJensen]

I think that you, like so many other "city slickers", associate the farm with images from the Green Acres TV shows. The farm today is a big corporate business. The traditional family farm is going the way of the horse and buggy.

Buddy. Where do you live? My dad was the first in about 7 generations of farmers to leave the farm in the US. They were farmers in Switzerland before that.

 

I live in South Dakota. I live in a town where you can still smell the stockyards downtown when the wind's out of the north east.

 

But more importantly, I'm right.

 

You know how many senators New York, California, Texas, and Florida have?

 

8

 

You know how many senators South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Iowa have?

 

8.

 

Farmers vote, and in a lot of these small 'flyover states', the local head of the co-op board can get the ear of one of the state's senators when he's in town.

 

----

 

It's a fact that money primes the pump.

 

But senators from farm states know for dang sure that their tenancy in office depends on keeping farmers happy.

 

And unless you've got some statistics available, land ownership, at least in my neck of the woods, is overwhelmingly in the hands of families and family owned LLCs.

 

You want to talk about livestock production? Well, in terms of pigs and fowl, yeah, that's very corporate. But row-crop farming is a different matter entirely. And ranching is still family/family LLC centered. Only the feedlots are seeing corporate influx on a major scale.

[RichardJensen]

Also Richard you keep forgetting virgin plant matter is not the only source for Bio. You do not need to farm to get the Esters for Bio D. There are many many post consumer, commercial and industrial sources of the esters needed for it. And they can even come from byproducts of the Oil Industry. Bio D is much more closed loop process than Bio ethanol

Ethanol will have a revival for a period of time. Just like originally happened in the 50's with gasohol and ethy mixes.

 

If it stays around, the bulk of production in time will come from the Oil sector not the Agri one.

Basically all the ethanol in gasoline mixes sold in Canada now is 100% fossil fuel derived Ethanol. Crude based Ethanol is already produced with out subsidies. As it is a more cost effective method for producing it than cooking it from Bio Mass.

1) post-consumer/byproduct Bio-D requires a lot more treatment, and a missing collection infrastructure. With ethanol & biodiesel, you've at least already got a collection and milling infrastructure in place.

 

2) with the number of ethanol plants online and the number in the works, with the perpetual support of about half the US senate, ethanol isn't going anywhere. Consider it another subsidy for a questionable industry (sort of like the ag subsidies for tobacco farmers).

 

3) again, stateside, ethanol will not move from bio-based sources because the favorable tax treatment follows the source, not the product. Why? See reason 2.