MUSTANG GT500 CUSTOMER PROBLEMS

[PolarBear]

And I bet they'll be the first place you check when you're in the market for a new one too. This is really basic, stoopid stuff that customers should never even have to discuss- ever. You should hear some of the Corvette horror stories. I just mention that because there's an enthusiast group that carries fussy to the 9th degree, and 'Vettes are sold by Chevy Stores that aren't geared, normally, to this type of customer. Kind of like a Ford GT owner coming in for service, but they're rare enough it hardly ever happens.

[oldracer]

I talked to my cousin's husband earlier tonight.

He said base MSRP for a Z06 is around 65K, with the usual 8-10K markup included...

Options & gouging make the sky the limit, his dealer is trying to NOT pork their customers, loyal customers are being given a higher priority, which seems fair...

 

He has ordered 2 for himself, 1 as a track car and one to drive, he told me I could expect a Z06 for early 50's with few options....I believe him..

 

I am discussing a regular C6 when I said about 39K out the door, that is really all we want for a driver....

 

No decision yet, still waiting to see if I land a GT500....

more to come when news available

Edited March 14, 2006 by oldracer

[PolarBear]

I talked to my cousin's husband earlier tonight.

He said base MSRP for a Z06 is around 65K, with the usual 8-10K markup included...

Options & gouging make the sky the limit, his dealer is trying to NOT pork their customers, loyal customers are being given a higher priority, which seems fair...

 

He has ordered 2 for himself, 1 as a track car and one to drive, he told me I could expect a Z06 for early 50's with few options....I believe him..

 

I am discussing a regular C6 when I said about 39K out the door, that is really all we want for a driver....

 

No decision yet, still waiting to see if I land a GT500....

more to come when news available

 

With all due respect, the guy either doesn't have a clue what he's talking about or is blowing smoke. A Z06 doesn't have $8-$10k markup, and getting one for under MSRP......... I think you're odds of getting struck by lightening is better. I wouldn't even lay odds of you- or him- getting one this model year.

 

That being said, the Z06 is going to look readily available compared to the GT500- largely because the pricing opens the pool to a larger group of buyers.

[robertlane]

Following this link to the interview with the Mustang Brand Manager:

 

http://www.stangsunleashed.com/index.php?c...p13_sectionid=3

[oldracer]

Perhaps I was not clear or I'm missing something...

 

Here is what I was told by the OWNER, (My Cousin's Husband), who sold me my 2003 Z71 loaded Suburban for $36,078 out the door, which with Mass tax of 5% means I paid $34,357.14, which included Tag & Title fee....this truck has every option that I can recall and listed just over $45K

 

He sells it to me like a "D" plan, except it is the absolute cost he pays from GM after all the holdbacks and credits he gets from GM.

Now I don't pretend to know the exact markup, and really don't care that much, but 10K net seems about right for a Z06 spread to the dealer......its about 15% markup and includes holdback, and advertising etc, etc

 

He will stand by his early to mid 50"s price to me, however, this is a non-optioned up car, not a loaded one....

 

My initial, poorly communicated point, was that for 55K or so, I would see the Vette as a better choice for me than a marked up GT500 for the same amount of $$

 

His customer cars are already allocated to him, and he can place more orders!!!!!!! WHAT a concept; selling a car to people who want it.

 

His availability will not be unlimited, but the fact he can order additional cars for customers speaks volumes as to attitude about selling hot pieces.

 

If we buy a C6, I will buy a regular hardtop, its all I need and want; and it really impressed me a bunch.

For the $$ it seems hard to equal, nevermind beat as a deal..

 

See higher education does pay off, I paid about 1/2 of his engineering degree 20 years ago when he wasn't so wealthy.......so a return like this is soooo sweet....

 

I did it for my cousin's benefit, they have 4 kids....but it seems to be helping me too as an unexpected bonus.

Yes, he paid me back in full...........

[gafry]

LET'S ALL GIVE FORD A CHANCE TO STRAIGHTEN THINGS OUT

 

IF THEY WANT TO START MANUFACTURING THE GT500 IN JUNE

 

WE SHOULD BE GETTING GOOD INFORMATION BY LATE APRIL

 

OR EARLY MAY. FORD IS DOWN SIZING AND NEEDS A CHANCE

 

TO SLIM DOWN TO COMPETE WITH THE FORGEIN MANUFACTURES

 

FORD PAYS ITS WORKER THE SAME AS THEY DO BUT THE DIFFERENCE

 

IS IN THE BENEFITS. DO WE ALL WANT LESS BENEFITS TO COMPETE

 

WILL WE ALL SOME DAY BE WORKING WITH NO BENEFITS FOR

 

MINIMUM WAGE???? WAKE UP AMERICA AND SEE THE GOBAL ECONOMY

 

IS NOT WHAT WE WANT. ONLY THE RICH GET RICHER AND THERE

 

WILL BE NO MIDDLE CLASS JUST POOR WORKERS.

[krman68]

Many Many Great and Valid Points on this thread. I agree whole heartedly.

 

FORD MGT NEEDS TO START PAYING ATTENTION TO THE CUSTOMER - No wonder why their market share is tanking. The mass produce boring underperforming cars and can't understand why the don't sell and they only selectively build hi po cars for the "select few"

 

Common sense says - If you can sell 20,000, 30,000 or 50,000 GT500's - build em. By only building 10,000 units, the only people they are hurting is themselves - the dealers are the ones putting the ADM in their pockets, not Ford...Who's driving the bus over there? The NADA? And all the while they are pissing off their dwindling customer base....Ford - go to history class....look at what happened to Nissan after the 300Z went bye bye - they tanked....You need a halo car to pull the masses to the showroom....a very limited production hot product don't cut it.

 

I am a longtime Ford customer who has the $$$ to buy a GT500 and pay the ADM - BUT I WON'T - I am not a fool. I was planning on buying a GT500 but I will NOT pay anything over sticker. If I end up having to wait 2 years until all the fools have left the building with empty wallets, then I will consider a GT500, BUT by that time Dodge will be rolling out the gorgeous Hemi Challenger and the new Camaro will probably by ready to go....I will probably need to reconsider - the not so new styling of the GT500 or a hot new Chrysler or Camaro...tough choice.....I may well go to Mopar. Ford needs to hit while the iron is hot.....build build build and it will sell sell sell...as well as reacquaint buyers to other Ford products... FORD MGT - Go back to Marketing 101 and maybe this time you'll learn something

 

Furthermore, I watched portions of the interview of Jim Owen, the Mustang Brand Manager. I am totally unimpressed with him and what he had to say. If he is towing the company line and Ford is full of managers like him, the company is DOOMED. If he worked for me, I'd fire him in a second. He answered questions more like a politician than what I would expect from upper management. Its very sad. ....time to get out the life preservers....this boat is sinking

Edited March 15, 2006 by krman68

[DoubleD]

They let it happen with the Thunderbird and the cars didn't move at all.

 

Maybe it had something to do with the fact that the Thunderbird was an overweight, underperforming boulevard cruiser with little appeal? Just a thought...

[J-150]

FORD MGT - Go back to Marketing 101 and maybe this time you'll learn something

 

 

 

maybe when you're done Marketing 201 you can talk and offer some guidance.

 

In Marketing 201 we learn concept such as "premium" and "must have" "limited edition to maintain must have attitude"

 

 

The reality is, if you really want one, you will buy it. These threats you make tell me that you were never a serious buyer. Just a serious complainer.

[ford4v429]

stupid question, for those in defense of ADM...is it good for Ford motor company IN ANY WAY? I mean the dealers get their pockets stuffed while pissing away would be buyers, Ford builds a great car, obviously worth a bit more than theyre asking, in return, they get nothing but upset would-be customers...to me anything over sticker should at least be required to split with Ford- I mean they ACTUALLY EARNED IT for building a great product. Dealers aint gotta do shit to sell a great product- why do they get more profit than Ford???

[PolarBear]

Perhaps I was not clear or I'm missing something...

 

Here is what I was told by the OWNER, (My Cousin's Husband), who sold me my 2003 Z71 loaded Suburban for $36,078 out the door, which with Mass tax of 5% means I paid $34,357.14, which included Tag & Title fee....this truck has every option that I can recall and listed just over $45K

 

He sells it to me like a "D" plan, except it is the absolute cost he pays from GM after all the holdbacks and credits he gets from GM.

Now I don't pretend to know the exact markup, and really don't care that much, but 10K net seems about right for a Z06 spread to the dealer......its about 15% markup and includes holdback, and advertising etc, etc

 

He will stand by his early to mid 50"s price to me, however, this is a non-optioned up car, not a loaded one....

 

My initial, poorly communicated point, was that for 55K or so, I would see the Vette as a better choice for me than a marked up GT500 for the same amount of $$

 

His customer cars are already allocated to him, and he can place more orders!!!!!!! WHAT a concept; selling a car to people who want it.

 

His availability will not be unlimited, but the fact he can order additional cars for customers speaks volumes as to attitude about selling hot pieces.

 

If we buy a C6, I will buy a regular hardtop, its all I need and want; and it really impressed me a bunch.

For the $$ it seems hard to equal, nevermind beat as a deal..

 

See higher education does pay off, I paid about 1/2 of his engineering degree 20 years ago when he wasn't so wealthy.......so a return like this is soooo sweet....

 

I did it for my cousin's benefit, they have 4 kids....but it seems to be helping me too as an unexpected bonus.

Yes, he paid me back in full...........

 

Here's where we get to the "blowing smoke" part of the story:

 

1) A bare-bones Z06 invoices for $61,000. No rebates, no incentives, no GMS available.

 

2) Allocations were written in stone 1/5/06 for the balance of the model year. There's no such thing as "getting more product" when this product is concerned.

 

3) Dealers have been paying $5,000 over MSRP for Z06's between dealers with a sale card. He really likes you. If he sells you one in the mid-$50's, it'd be cheaper for him to sell the car to someone else and just scratch out a check to you for $15,000.

 

We are the largest Corvette Dealer in our 5-state region, and will see 16 Z06's for the '06 model year. I'm already into the '08 model year for orders.

 

And yes, I listen to the same complaints about Chevrolet allocations and dealer-gouging as I'm reading on this thread.

 

ford4v429 "anything over sticker should at least be required to split with Ford- I mean they ACTUALLY EARNED IT for building a great product. Dealers aint gotta do shit to sell a great product- why do they get more profit than Ford???"

 

I'd do that deal........ if Ford reimburses us for all the floorplan expense for the product we took and didn't want/need over the last year or two. We can start with Freestars, and work our way up from there. Betcha that money alone would buy a GT500 or two. :rolleyes:

 

[krman68]

Obviously, J-150, you must be one of the smart managers at Ford.....Keep up with that mentality and you'll be on the unemployment line with many of your co-workers. Now, its clearer to me why the Company can't get out of its tail spin with rocket scientists like you working there. Please shed more of your wisdom on the buying public. You'll only make Ford's stock drop closer to zero.

Edited March 16, 2006 by krman68

[robertlane]

I think Jim Owens hit the nail right on the head.

 

In 1967, Ford made 472,000 Mustangs and a little more than 2,000 GT500s.

 

In 1968, Ford made 317,404 Mustangs and a little more than 3,019 GT500s.

 

Now, Ford is proposing on making less than 200,000 Mustangs and 10,000 GT500s.

[yamahaR1]

I think Jim Owens hit the nail right on the head.

 

In 1967, Ford made 472,000 Mustangs and a little more than 2,000 GT500s.

 

In 1968, Ford made 317,404 Mustangs and a little more than 3,019 GT500s.

 

Now, Ford is proposing on making less than 200,000 Mustangs and 10,000 GT500s.

How much more in cost were the orginal GT500's than the original mustang, I think if you compare that, you will have a much better view of why people are pissed.

[kevinb120]

With all due respect, the guy either doesn't have a clue what he's talking about or is blowing smoke. A Z06 doesn't have $8-$10k markup, and getting one for under MSRP......... I think you're odds of getting struck by lightening is better. I wouldn't even lay odds of you- or him- getting one this model year.

 

That being said, the Z06 is going to look readily available compared to the GT500- largely because the pricing opens the pool to a larger group of buyers.

 

 

He must be talking Euros :shrug:

 

I didn't think you personally would do this but that is what happened to me. I'm sure there might be a few honest dealers out there but I haven't found one yet,at least not around here,which is Fairfield ,CT.

Car dealers in general have a very bad reputation ,mainly beacuse they have been caught lieing and doing unethical things like this.

Why doesn't the manufacturer police these dealers in some way? It would certainly help improve things and prevent unessary loss of good customers.

 

FORD MANAGEMENT WHERE ARE YOU? :shrug:

 

Technically, if YOU sign the papwerwork and the numbers are EXACTLY the same as what you sign, then the dealer is honest. Its up to the customer's intelligence to make a buying decision. If you let a dealer walk all over you, you let them because you are a dumbass. READ WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING, duh.

 

Just because cars cost more then most household items, you never really get ripped off over a lifetime like you do by owning things that say Nike, or Coach, or Oakley. No matter what a dealer or automaker tries to make in proffit, NONE makes proffit ithat can be calculated in the THOUSANDS of percent like that shit. Sticker price is about 8% proffit, Home Depot or Best Buy easilly exceed 30%. I can only imagine what a furniture store or Coach purse outlet turns in proffit :blink:

Edited March 17, 2006 by kevinb120

[svtbird91]

Problem solved!

Edited March 21, 2006 by svtbird91

[dr511scj]

My dealer has 45 orders, some with deposits.............Ford told him they would build all they could sell.....now he is told he is only getting 12. The chance of me, (#5 on list), getting my car at MSRP seems ZERO right now...I WILL NOT PAY MORE THAN THAT PERIOD.

 

My answer is I will go buy a C6 for way less than the markup/auction anticipated price.....

 

Chevy will deal on new Vettes, and they actually make enough to sell to customers......

 

I am disgusted with the idiotic shortsighted management at Ford....a shining example of stupid decisions and bad results from them..........are you completely clueless??????????? :angry: :angry:

 

Quit telling us you got no $$$, you don't have $$ because you make hardly any desirable salable vehicles.

Killing SVT is moronic, its true that SVT is a small percentage of annual sales, but what the idiots in marketing fail to realize is that SVT customers buy their other vehicles from Ford as well...........

 

My family has had 3 SVT's since 1998, BUT; we have purchased 13 other Ford products also.....

Do the math, halo cars bring traffic and sales to you.

 

If I could express the outrage I feel for Ford's actions more articulately; I would say, I'm voting with my wallet and you will not be on my ballot if you don't get more customer friendly and responsive...

 

I give up......."stupid is as stupid does": Forrest Gump

 

ABSOLUTE TRUTH! SVT owners are some of Ford's best salespeople. We sell a lot more "mainstream" Fords than do fickle owners of snoozer heaps like the FLACCID FIVE HUNDRED AND THE DEATHTRAP FUSION (and it's getting really hard to convince friends and family they ought to go "Ford" with sleds like that in the line-up competing against 240+ h.p. sedans, 303-425 h.p. V8s, and RWD in something designed after the Carter Administration)

 

But sadly, when Ford "does the math" it always seems to be SUBTRACTION (cutting jobs, cutting plants, cutting production, cutting features, cutting models, cutting racing teams, cutting market share, cutting dealer profit, CUTTING SVT!!!)

[svtbird91]

I think Jim Owens hit the nail right on the head.

 

In 1967, Ford made 472,000 Mustangs and a little more than 2,000 GT500s.

 

In 1968, Ford made 317,404 Mustangs and a little more than 3,019 GT500s.

 

Now, Ford is proposing on making less than 200,000 Mustangs and 10,000 GT500s.

 

Robert ,while that is true ,I dont't remember any additional dealer mark-up in 1967,let alone the blatant greed like we are seeing today. The dealers today ,are out of control in my opinion. I would think Ford would be more concerned than they are. In the long term it can only hurt both the dealer and FMCO . We all know FMCO cannot afford to loose loyal customers but that is what is going to happen.

 

That said ,I agree there should be a limited number built . Those who put money down early should be rewarded for doing so ,not treated with the disrespect of loosing out to a late comer with deep pockets.

 

Any way that is my opinion about this passionate issue.

Edited March 17, 2006 by svtbird91

[dr511scj]

Robert ,while that is true ,I dont't remember any additional dealer mark-up in 1967,let alone the blatant greed like we are seeing today. The dealers today ,are out of control in my opinion. I would think Ford would be more concerned than they are. In the long term it can only hurt both the dealer and FMCO . We all know FMCO cannot afford to loose loyal customers but that is what is going to happen.

 

That said ,I agree there should be a limited number built . Those who put money down early should be rewarded for doing so ,not treated with the disrespect of loosing out to a late comer with deep pockets.

 

Any way that is my opinion about this passionate issue.

 

Another point . . . 1967 & 1968 were the height of the first "muscle car" era. Competition was huge for cars in the same "relative" ultra high performance envelope to the 2007 GT500 (note that most wimp 4-doors today run numbers that would have placed them in the thick of the muscle car wars back then, so the new GT500's performance must be gauged relative to that of the overall automotive market). So with nearly every Detroit nameplate building at least one muscle car then (and most building more than one) competition for dollars at the Shelby's high end of the market undoubtedly held down sales.

 

Fast forward to 2006--much less competition among ultra-high-performance cars, with virtually no meaningful competition at the GT500's alleged (without ADM) price point and years of pent-up demand to stoke sales. Thus, if the dealers are ripping people off, then it means the supply is simply too low.

[yamahaR1]

Furthermore, I watched portions of the interview of Jim Owen, the Mustang Brand Manager. I am totally unimpressed with him and what he had to say. If he is towing the company line and Ford is full of managers like him, the company is DOOMED. If he worked for me, I'd fire him in a second. He answered questions more like a politician than what I would expect from upper management. Its very sad. ....time to get out the life preservers....this boat is sinking

OMG, it is ironic that I have the same thoughts as you. Some people posting on this site have the blinders on. I felt the same way about the "great" :shrug: mustang team manager Jim Owen, what a joke. I was equally unimpressed and wonder about the future of Ford. I have been posting in the mustang area of this forum, just wanted to tell you it is great that people here are not just kissing everybody's ass and instead are telling it like it is, good job.

 

maybe when you're done Marketing 201 you can talk and offer some guidance.

 

In Marketing 201 we learn concept such as "premium" and "must have" "limited edition to maintain must have attitude"

The reality is, if you really want one, you will buy it. These threats you make tell me that you were never a serious buyer. Just a serious complainer.

Hey moron, I would buy one if it was priced at the mentioned $39,000 price tag. For sure I will not pay twice the MSRP like I have seen mentioned on other posts, hey, I would not even pay over $40,000 for it. What a joke your thoughts are to me, you have blinders on also, look at Ford's market share dwindling, building a car that lots of people want is smarter than pissing off bunches of people and making a buck on a limited few. I bet the bad word of mouth is further affecting their market share, or will make people wait for the camaro or challenger. Hey, I don't even have a marketing degree, man I am good.

 

Obviously, J-150, you must be one of the smart managers at Ford.....Keep up with that mentality and you'll be on the unemployment line with many of your co-workers. Now, its clearer to me why the Company can't get out of its tail spin with rocket scientists like you working there. Please shed more of your wisdom on the buying public. You'll only make Ford's stock drop closer to zero.

Right on man, more people who are not afraid to say what is really going on. Keep it up, maybe they will listen and get rid of people like J-150.

[robertlane]

Robert ,while that is true ,I dont't remember any additional dealer mark-up in 1967,let alone the blatant greed like we are seeing today. The dealers today ,are out of control in my opinion. I would think Ford would be more concerned than they are. In the long term it can only hurt both the dealer and FMCO . We all know FMCO cannot afford to loose loyal customers but that is what is going to happen.

 

That said ,I agree there should be a limited number built . Those who put money down early should be rewarded for doing so ,not treated with the disrespect of loosing out to a late comer with deep pockets.

 

Any way that is my opinion about this passionate issue.

 

I tried to look into how much theese went for, but could not find out. Not only are some dealers out of hand, many other things in this country are to: realestate in Florda, lawyers, executive pay. . . .

 

Another point . . . 1967 & 1968 were the height of the first "muscle car" era. Competition was huge for cars in the same "relative" ultra high performance envelope to the 2007 GT500 (note that most wimp 4-doors today run numbers that would have placed them in the thick of the muscle car wars back then, so the new GT500's performance must be gauged relative to that of the overall automotive market). So with nearly every Detroit nameplate building at least one muscle car then (and most building more than one) competition for dollars at the Shelby's high end of the market undoubtedly held down sales.

 

Fast forward to 2006--much less competition among ultra-high-performance cars, with virtually no meaningful competition at the GT500's alleged (without ADM) price point and years of pent-up demand to stoke sales. Thus, if the dealers are ripping people off, then it means the supply is simply too low.

 

I bet that the second year GT500 will have huge markups, and even the Boss will despite the competition. Too few being produced and too many people from that generation with cash to spend.

[yamahaR1]

I tried to look into how much theese went for, but could not find out. Not only are some dealers out of hand, many other things in this country are to: realestate in Florda, lawyers, executive pay. . . .

I bet that the second year GT500 will have huge markups, and even the Boss will despite the competition. Too few being produced and too many people from that generation with cash to spend.

Why cannot they just make a few less Mazda 6's? I wonder what the sales #'s are for that car? Seems like I see a lot of mazda 3's around, but not too many 6's, except at the rental lots though. They could get some more production out of the plant that way. Is that where the GT500 will be built, like the last cobra built in the mustang plant?

[WTF????]

How much more in cost were the orginal GT500's than the original mustang, I think if you compare that, you will have a much better view of why people are pissed.

 

In '67....a V8 Mustang was under $3,000 whereas base price for a GT500 was $4,195....or about 45% more.

 

Compare pretty close to the difference in pricing between your current Mustang GT and the projected MSRP of the GT500

[RangeRover]

Topics like this always leave me a little frustrated. NONE of you know why Ford has made their decision. If they could simply produce more, don't you think that they would. People get so caught up in their own personal micro situations.

 

I am sorry that everone can't have a GT-500 but Sh*t happens. Now people are taking turns beating on managers, cursing dealers and discrediting the work of many well educated and hard working people. If you are upset about your personal experience by all means share it but don't tear down other people or Ford without accurate information and proof of what you say.

 

Supply & Demand (Ford did not invent it). I am sure they would gladly sell 1 million GT-500's if they could!!

 

If a dealer took my deposit and tried to screw me like that I would sue. The problem is between you and the dealer. I would like to see Ford step up and back the customer but honestly Ford has too many dealers to police and a limited jurisdiction over them. Check out the history of OEM's and Dealers, you will see that Dealers are very hard to reign in thanks to state and federal laws.

Edited March 21, 2006 by RangeRover

[magic1010]

i might be in the wrong form but..their ..is.. a 2005 gt . white with blue stripes avaliable.

and not at a markup.. brande new..(sales people cant even touch it).at

http://www.hackettstownford.com .if i am reading correctly theirs a few looking for one.

and no i am not a dealer..im just a retired ford employee..that was extremely pleased at this dealership.

and joe'peaches'.that was a pleasure to work with in me selecting and aquring my newest'ford'.with out

the usual dealer hassles/pressure/ must buy ..etc etc.

maybe i saved some one a long hassle.. worth a shot.. but.. your sure not going to bring it out on a test drive..be warned they guard it like a prize possession.

location location.. worth a peek fellows..enjoy.