TRANSIT TO THE US?

[Biker16]

In the long term that is what you will end up with. But even at that there will major differenaces between the lightest and Heaviest of the Vans. Ford is in the prosses of setting the vans up like the F series.

 

You will have the lighter duty Transit series and the super duty E Series. There may come a time when some sheet metal and interior bits can be shared. But you are not going to be able share much between a TCT and E 550 type vehicles.

 

Also since Ford is going global setting up all the transit cabs to handle Big Diesel V8'S is going to add unessesary costs for the EU models. Remember the goal is to share as many parts as possible between the EU spec and NA spec Vehicles. Ford is going to always have a superduty van. The big question is how many of the Transit's parts can they utilize in the superduty Version. A wholesale Cab swap is not pratical nor feasable. The Superduty Vans will require a dedicated cab. Even if it is copy of the Unitized FWD Transit cab that can share some interior and exterior sheet metal it will need to be a dedicated cab for the Super duty vans. And who says most of the interior parts have to come from the Transit ? the Super duty trucks can give up piles of stuff such as switch gear window actuators seats steering wheels ETC. As long as the E series is not an orphan and sharing parts with other models you are going to get the economy of scale. It does not nesssarly have to be the Transit. But sharing with the Transit makes the most sence.

I belive that from here on out we will always have the Transit and E Series Co exsist. With the Transit now here it is going to offer one stop shopping for a lot of fleet users. This may spur Ford to finally update the E series and offer the advantges of the Transits interior room in an E-series type vehicle.

 

Matthew

 

The transit is FWD AWD and RWD.

[Biker16]

I see this as mammoth engineering efforts required to achieve minimal cost savings.

Why bother Redesigning a Van that has been the same since the early 90s. the cost savings are there.

 

what we don't know:

Can the Transit fit larger engines?

with larger engines can you increase it's GVCWto the 20,000lbs of the E450 or would that Require a complete redux?

how much will it cost to make the above happen?

Do we need to make the above happen?

 

the Transit can replace the E150 and E250 it payload is greater and can meet the needs of those customers today.

 

The 350SD and 450SD It can't replace those models today.

 

It think we are Getting off track. We have the 3 different markets we are in

 

Van, Cutaway, and stripped chasis.

 

This will nessiate A new Frame models for the Stripped Chasis and that would be used as a base for a Cutaway, as well.

 

Don't think of this as a chalenge but as an opportunity. by removing the lighter duty vans we can make a better customer focused cutaway chasis, oine that could better meet the needs of our customers.

 

 

 

not forget Biker Sodium Chloride actually is Salt.

 

I meant Calcium Chloride. I had too much powers.

[Furious1Auto]

name='Biker16' date='Mar 2 2008, 11:02 PM' post='315156']

Why bother Redesigning a Van that has been the same since the early 90s. the cost savings are there.

 

what we don't know:

Can the Transit fit larger engines?

with larger engines can you increase it's GVCWto the 20,000lbs of the E450 or would that Require a complete redux?

how much will it cost to make the above happen?

Do we need to make the above happen?

 

the Transit can replace the E150 and E250 it payload is greater and can meet the needs of those customers today.

 

The 350SD and 450SD It can't replace those models today.

 

It think we are Getting off track. We have the 3 different markets we are in

 

Van, Cutaway, and stripped chasis.

 

This will nessiate A new Frame models for the Stripped Chasis and that would be used as a base for a Cutaway, as well.

 

Don't think of this as a chalenge but as an opportunity. by removing the lighter duty vans we can make a better customer focused cutaway chasis, oine that could better meet the needs of our customers.

I meant Calcium Chloride. I had too much powers.

To reduce the extra sheet metal in the current Transit's design that would no longer be necessary for a full frame design sounds extensive, but necessary if you want to achieve a GVW that would yeild decent MPG #'s. I think it would still be heavier and all of the fuel saving advantages over the E-Series would be depleted by doing so! How is it advantageous for Ford to take a vehicle with good MPG and eliminate the advantage while introducing it to a market where fuel economy is at the top of the consumers's list? If anything the 2010 overhaul of the E-Series should make the E-Series mimic the Transit's body lines, only if the Transit does well! Why are you so ademate about eliminating a successful product that has long since paid for itself just to make it distincly different from what it is currently? Would you not think it smart to import the vehicle first to see how it sells, before even considering comitting a marriage with the E-Series? What if Ford did as you suggest and The E-Series sales fell as a result? What if some E-Series loyal customers defect to our competitors as a result of the marriage? Not saying that it is not plausable, or possible but lets not put the cart before the horse. We need to first see how it will do in the U.S. markets! Then they can explore new oppertunities, wouldn't you think? Edited March 3, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Biker16]

To reduce the extra sheet metal in the current Transit's design that would no longer be necessary for a full frame design sounds extensive, but necessary if you want to achieve a GVW that would yeild decent MPG #'s. I think it would still be heavier and all of the fuel saving advantages over the E-Series would be depleted by doing so! How is it advantageous for Ford to take a vehicle with good MPG and eliminate the advantage while introducing it to a market where fuel economy is at the top of the consumers's list? If anything the 2010 overhaul of the E-Series should make the E-Series mimic the Transit's body lines, only if the Transit does well! Why are you so ademate about eliminating a successful product that has long since paid for itself just to make it distincly different from what it is currently? Would you not think it smart to import the vehicle first to see how it sells, before even considering comitting a marriage with the E-Series? What if Ford did as you suggest and The E-Series sales fell as a result? What if some E-Series loyal customers defect to our competitors as a result of the marriage? Not saying that it is not plausable, or possible but lets not put the cart before the horse. We need to first see how it will do in the U.S. markets! Then they can explore new oppertunities, wouldn't you think?

 

I don't this will happen overnight. but it will happen in time.

[RichardJensen]

I don't this will happen overnight. but it will happen in time.

You don't know what you think.

 

On the one hand, you're all about 'merging the Transit and E-Series' and then you're going on about how the E-Series should be the E-350 & E-450 with the Transit replacing the E-150 & E-250. You say the Transit frame can be engineered to support a 20,000lb GCWR, asserting that the only difference is engine, and then you back off from that.

 

You predict this will all happen within 2-3 years ('overnight' relatively speaking) and then you say it 'will take time'.

 

Frankly, I begin to understand why you can claim to be 'right' so often. You don't keep your stories straight.

 

Contrast your 'all over the map' assertions, predictions, and oversights with what I have consistently said:

 

Transit alongside the E-Series: Both products have marketplace demanded strengths that justify separate platforms. Cost savings from convergence for products that have as little invested in them on a year over year basis as the Transit & E-Series would be difficult to justify.

[Biker16]

You don't know what you think.

 

On the one hand, you're all about 'merging the Transit and E-Series' and then you're going on about how the E-Series should be the E-350 & E-450 with the Transit replacing the E-150 & E-250. You say the Transit frame can be engineered to support a 20,000lb GCWR, asserting that the only difference is engine, and then you back off from that.

 

You predict this will all happen within 2-3 years ('overnight' relatively speaking) and then you say it 'will take time'.

 

Frankly, I begin to understand why you can claim to be 'right' so often. You don't keep your stories straight.

 

Contrast your 'all over the map' assertions, predictions, and oversights with what I have consistently said:

 

Transit alongside the E-Series: Both products have marketplace demanded strengths that justify separate platforms. Cost savings from convergence for products that have as little invested in them on a year over year basis as the Transit & E-Series would be difficult to justify.

I stand by everything I said. They will move to make both products better. That doesn't mean we will be move stupidly to do it.

 

In case you haven't notice or lost count we have had this discussion before. you always seem defend stagnation over progress.

 

What do we replace the E-series with?

 

This is question, what is Your answer?

[RichardJensen]

I stand by everything I said.

even the stuff that contradicted the other stuff?

 

BTW, the E-Series has hardly stagnated. It is more powerful and more capable than ever.

 

Just because the progress isn't something that YOUR prejudices will recognize, you dismiss it.

 

Had Ford left the E-Series as it was in '92, they would not have retained their 50% share of the commercial van market.

 

Instead, every aspect of the vehicle that MATTERS has received attention, whether it's the suspension, frame, transmission, or engine, it HAS BEEN IMPROVED.

 

However, you, with your 'passenger car' mindset define progress only in terms of interior panels and sheetmetal.

 

Stagnation? Yes. If, by stagnation, you mean maintenance of class leading dependability, flexibility, and capability.

 

You sign me up for that kind of stagnation any day of the week.

[Deanh]

even the stuff that contradicted the other stuff?

 

BTW, the E-Series has hardly stagnated. It is more powerful and more capable than ever.

 

Just because the progress isn't something that YOUR prejudices will recognize, you dismiss it.

 

Had Ford left the E-Series as it was in '92, they would not have retained their 50% share of the commercial van market.

 

Instead, every aspect of the vehicle that MATTERS has received attention, whether it's the suspension, frame, transmission, or engine, it HAS BEEN IMPROVED.

 

However, you, with your 'passenger car' mindset define progress only in terms of interior panels and sheetmetal.

 

Stagnation? Yes. If, by stagnation, you mean maintenance of class leading dependability, flexibility, and capability.

 

You sign me up for that kind of stagnation any day of the week.

E series is going NO-WHERE...they are absolute cash cows....tooling, basically EVERYTHING bar minor updates has been paid for since the first panther left the assembly line....ALL aftermarket companies are 100% familiar with every nook and cranny...AND it fits 99% of the time in parking garages and meth labs. My guess is the Econoline may, MAY be the most profitable vehicle in the ENTIRE Ford line bar NONE after all it retails close to an XLT Expedition ( rumoured $10k per copy profit ) yet is a tin box with few frills....AND it just happens to probably the best vehicle for its designated purpose.....50% of the market may actually be an UNDERSTATEMENT!

[matthewq4b]

even the stuff that contradicted the other stuff?

 

BTW, the E-Series has hardly stagnated. It is more powerful and more capable than ever.

 

Just because the progress isn't something that YOUR prejudices will recognize, you dismiss it.

 

Had Ford left the E-Series as it was in '92, they would not have retained their 50% share of the commercial van market.

 

Instead, every aspect of the vehicle that MATTERS has received attention, whether it's the suspension, frame, transmission, or engine, it HAS BEEN IMPROVED.

 

However, you, with your 'passenger car' mindset define progress only in terms of interior panels and sheetmetal.

 

Stagnation? Yes. If, by stagnation, you mean maintenance of class leading dependability, flexibility, and capability.

 

You sign me up for that kind of stagnation any day of the week.

 

 

Hey just like the Panthers lol.

 

Sorry had to toss that out there it was too easy.

 

Matthew

[matthewq4b]

E series is going NO-WHERE...they are absolute cash cows....tooling, basically EVERYTHING bar minor updates has been paid for since the first panther left the assembly line....ALL aftermarket companies are 100% familiar with every nook and cranny...AND it fits 99% of the time in parking garages and meth labs. My guess is the Econoline may, MAY be the most profitable vehicle in the ENTIRE Ford line bar NONE after all it retails close to an XLT Expedition ( rumoured $10k per copy profit ) yet is a tin box with few frills....AND it just happens to probably the best vehicle for its designated purpose.....50% of the market may actually be an UNDERSTATEMENT!

 

 

Ah you mean just like th Naw I will leave it alone lol

 

 

 

Matthew

Edited March 5, 2008 by matthewq4b

[Furious1Auto]

E series is going NO-WHERE...they are absolute cash cows....tooling, basically EVERYTHING bar minor updates has been paid for since the first panther left the assembly line....ALL aftermarket companies are 100% familiar with every nook and cranny...AND it fits 99% of the time in parking garages and meth labs. My guess is the Econoline may, MAY be the most profitable vehicle in the ENTIRE Ford line bar NONE after all it retails close to an XLT Expedition ( rumoured $10k per copy profit ) yet is a tin box with few frills....AND it just happens to probably the best vehicle for its designated purpose.....50% of the market may actually be an UNDERSTATEMENT!

The best part is that it has remained year after year, selling at the same volume for about 4 decades now. There is absolutly no advertising costs associated with it, with the exception of the pamphlets at the dealers. Have you ever seen a E-Series commercial? "NO" you have not!

[Biker16]

E series is going NO-WHERE...they are absolute cash cows....tooling, basically EVERYTHING bar minor updates has been paid for since the first panther left the assembly line....ALL aftermarket companies are 100% familiar with every nook and cranny...AND it fits 99% of the time in parking garages and meth labs. My guess is the Econoline may, MAY be the most profitable vehicle in the ENTIRE Ford line bar NONE after all it retails close to an XLT Expedition ( rumoured $10k per copy profit ) yet is a tin box with few frills....AND it just happens to probably the best vehicle for its designated purpose.....50% of the market may actually be an UNDERSTATEMENT!

 

 

The same argument was used for the CV, and Ranger.

 

You cannot afford to let your products rot on the vine. there must be a succession plan for our products no matter how successful they may be.

 

We have to be consistently improving our products. being lackadaisical, is what has hurt ford in the past.

 

We must never again be complacent with any of our products.

[NickF1011]

The same argument was used for the CV, and Ranger.

 

You cannot afford to let your products rot on the vine. there must be a succession plan for our products no matter how successful they may be.

 

We have to be consistently improving our products. being lackadaisical, is what has hurt ford in the past.

 

We must never again be complacent with any of our products.

 

There's a distinct difference between the CV/Ranger and the E-series though -- since the very dawn of the fullsize van it has ALWAYS been a mostly commercial/fleet-driven vehicle. The CV/Ranger have simply been relegated to being fleet queens because they just aren't good for anything else anymore. Retail appeal isn't nearly as important to the E-series' survival as it is to the CV/Ranger. Of course, it's not like the E-series HASN'T been improved. As others have mentioned, it has gotten new engines, a few cosmetic tweaks, new suspension, and later this year a new interior. That's more improvement than the CV/Ranger have gotten over the past several years combined.

[battyr]

The best part is that it has remained year after year, selling at the same volume for about 4 decades now.

 

20 Years ago the E-Series was the best van on the market. Ford had a monopoly on the van market. Ford had a cash cow and did not invest in keeping the E-Series up to date. Today they are selling on reputation only.

 

The sales volume should not be remaining the same after 4 decades. They should be growing. Today the E-Series is a good heavy duty van. The Chevy 1500 is the best large van. The Sprinter is the best cargo van. The Astro is the best small van. The Caravan is the best mini van. 20 years ago my brother owned an E-Series van. Today he owns an F-150. You could spend money on advertising, and you would not sell any more E-Series vans unless you can make the van more appealing.

 

The Transit as it is today is not the answer. Ford needs to redesign the whole van market. Maybe something with the style and versatility of a caravan, the room of the Sprinter, the weight capacity of an E-450?, and image of an F-150.

 

Maybe something like a cross between a Flex and a Sprinter.

 

In the mean time Ford can make changes to the Transit so they can bring it over here and get some sales back from the Caravan, Astro, and Sprinter.

[NickF1011]

20 Years ago the E-Series was the best van on the market. Ford had a monopoly on the van market. Ford had a cash cow and did not invest in keeping the E-Series up to date. Today they are selling on reputation only.

 

The sales volume should not be remaining the same after 4 decades. They should be growing. Today the E-Series is a good heavy duty van. The Chevy 1500 is the best large van. The Sprinter is the best cargo van. The Astro is the best small van. The Caravan is the best mini van. 20 years ago my brother owned an E-Series van. Today he owns an F-150. You could spend money on advertising, and you would not sell any more E-Series vans unless you can make the van more appealing.

 

The Transit as it is today is not the answer. Ford needs to redesign the whole van market. Maybe something with the style and versatility of a caravan, the room of the Sprinter, the weight capacity of an E-450?, and image of an F-150.

 

Maybe something like a cross between a Flex and a Sprinter.

 

In the mean time Ford can make changes to the Transit so they can bring it over here and get some sales back from the Caravan, Astro, and Sprinter.

 

After seeing the part in bold, I had to laugh at the rest of your post. You are so far out of touch with the van market that you don't even know the Astro was discontinued in 2005.

[battyr]

After seeing the part in bold, I had to laugh at the rest of your post. You are so far out of touch with the van market that you don't even know the Astro was discontinued in 2005.

 

Thanks. I am not surprisedf. I did not think the Asto was that good of a van. But it was a market with no real competition. Maybe GM should have spent more money in keeping it up to date.

[NickF1011]

Thanks. I am not surprisedf. I did not think the Asto was that good of a van. But it was a market with no real competition. Maybe GM should have spent more money in keeping it up to date.

 

Sometimes market segments just die, or shift elsewhere. It's not always just a matter of keeping something up to date. Conversely, some market segments are rock solid and change very little (like fullsize vans), limiting the need for updates just for the sake of updates.

[suv_guy_19]

What I don't get is where people keep getting the idea that the E series is just crap and has never been improved. What do you think they just did last year? What do you think they're doing this year?

[battyr]

What I don't get is where people keep getting the idea that the E series is just crap and has never been improved. What do you think they just did last year? What do you think they're doing this year?

 

Ford did a great job refreshing the E-Series last year. What they missed they will get next year. It is still looks like a 20 year old design with a new grill and new dash. It still won't get customers who want an affordable family van (vehicle), with reasonable fuel effiency, that you can both park and pull a small trailer. It is still no substitue for the Sprinter for Courier and other trades.

[suv_guy_19]

Ford did a great job refreshing the E-Series last year. What they missed they will get next year. It is still looks like a 20 year old design with a new grill and new dash. It still won't get customers who want an affordable family van (vehicle), with reasonable fuel effiency, that you can both park and pull a small trailer. It is still no substitue for the Sprinter for Courier and other trades.

 

 

Actually, it's the van most used by couriers because they can put whatever cab they want on it.

[NickF1011]

Ford did a great job refreshing the E-Series last year. What they missed they will get next year. It is still looks like a 20 year old design with a new grill and new dash. It still won't get customers who want an affordable family van (vehicle), with reasonable fuel effiency, that you can both park and pull a small trailer. It is still no substitue for the Sprinter for Courier and other trades.

 

Here's a little update for you: The fullsize family van market has been dead since about 1984. It's not SUPPOSED to get customers looking for an affordable family van. Let those customers go take a look at the new Flex debuting this summer. In many cases, though, the E-series IS a substitute for the Sprinter, as evidenced by its still dominant sales over the Dodge. For those not satisfied with the E-series, the fullsize Transit will be available in a couple of years also. Let's also throw the smaller Transit Connect into the mix which will likely serve the needs of many who used to use the old Aerostar or Astro van for courier service.

[battyr]

Here's a little update for you: The fullsize family van market has been dead since about 1984. It's not SUPPOSED to get customers looking for an affordable family van. Let those customers go take a look at the new Flex debuting this summer. In many cases, though, the E-series IS a substitute for the Sprinter, as evidenced by its still dominant sales over the Dodge. For those not satisfied with the E-series, the fullsize Transit will be available in a couple of years also. Let's also throw the smaller Transit Connect into the mix which will likely serve the needs of many who used to use the old Aerostar or Astro van for courier service.

 

The Flex is good family vehicle but too expensive and not a van. The Sprinter must have a market or Dodge would abandon it and go back to their old van design. Ford is already doing the Transit better and cheaper than the Sprinter. They are selling the Transit in Mexico now and it is priced cheap. The Transit Connect is too small and too little power. The Aerostar and Astro is MIA. They needed better styling (Flex), and options. They also needed better quality and more choice of wheelbase and flexible body styles (Transit or Sprinter). I still think there is a big hole in the market for a new van.

[NickF1011]

The Flex is good family vehicle but too expensive and not a van. The Sprinter must have a market or Dodge would abandon it and go back to their old van design. Ford is already doing the Transit better and cheaper than the Sprinter. They are selling the Transit in Mexico now and it is priced cheap. The Transit Connect is too small and too little power. The Aerostar and Astro is MIA. They needed better styling (Flex), and options. They also needed better quality and more choice of wheelbase and flexible body styles (Transit or Sprinter). I still think there is a big hole in the market for a new van.

 

 

Yes, the Flex is not a van. Very good. That's sort of the point. It's the anti-minivan minivan. As for the pricing, you apparently haven't gone comparison shopping with the Odyssey, Sienna, or Town & Country lately, have you? The only "cheap" minivans out there are a few "stripper" Caravans, and even those optioned out match up pretty close to the Flex's pricing.

 

Transit Connect too small and too little power? According to who? It will work wonderfully as a catering or flower delivery van, which is its purpose. Just another niche of the market that nobody else is addressing really well right now.

 

I think you will find that the E-series is configurable in FAR more ways than the Transit OR Sprinter (multiple wheelbases, powertrains, payload ratings, cab and seating configurations). Yes, the Sprinter has a market, which is why Ford is bringing the Transit here to compete with it. However, just a simple glance at sales numbers shows that that market is significantly smaller than the E-series' market at this time.

Edited March 5, 2008 by NickF1011

[Deanh]

someone do me a favor, as from work for some reason I cannot cut and paste....someone post the Pug from Men in Black and the front end of the 08Econoline sans chrome package....theres where the inspiration came from.......

[Furious1Auto]

Thanks. I am not surprisedf. I did not think the Asto was that good of a van. But it was a market with no real competition. Maybe GM should have spent more money in keeping it up to date.

Either way the Astro was not even in the same class as the the E-Series, You could fit an Astro in the belly of an Econoline