NickF1011 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 as a rule, MSRP will be the highest price you pay. You see an MSRP and the retailer sells for lower. It's the way people have become accustomed to shopping. There is an inherent insult in the price being higher to the average person. Suggestions have rules now? They should call it MMRP then for Manufacturer's Maximum Retail Price then shouldn't they? Just because people are used to it, doesn't mean that's how it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 I find it amusing that people refuse to pay above MSRP for a car, or think the dealer is trying to rip them off somehow if they do. Let's break it down here... What is MSRP? It's what the MANUFACTURER SUGGESTS the car MIGHT be worth at a retail level. There's nothing in stone here, folks. If the vehicle is hot, it MIGHT be worth more, no? After all, if some people weren't paying the markups, dealers wouldn't use them. Law of Supply and Demand. And why is it that dealers are CROOKS if they try to sell ABOVE what the manufacturer suggests, but the consumer EXPECTS to pay LESS than what the manufacturer suggests? Sure, we all like getting a deal, but to EXPECT a deal is laughable. Yes the Ranger is a HOT HOT selling product def room for a markup... :blah: I expect to pay no more than MSRP ever... This is why we have MSRP in the first place so that greedy dealers can be seen for what they are... If dealers could get away without using MSRP on the sticker I bet they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I find it amusing that people refuse to pay above MSRP for a car, or think the dealer is trying to rip them off somehow if they do. Let's break it down here... What is MSRP? It's what the MANUFACTURER SUGGESTS the car MIGHT be worth at a retail level. There's nothing in stone here, folks. If the vehicle is hot, it MIGHT be worth more, no? After all, if some people weren't paying the markups, dealers wouldn't use them. Law of Supply and Demand. And why is it that dealers are CROOKS if they try to sell ABOVE what the manufacturer suggests, but the consumer EXPECTS to pay LESS than what the manufacturer suggests? Sure, we all like getting a deal, but to EXPECT a deal is laughable. Dude you way out of touch with reality! I take it you go to all the retailers you do business with, with the expectation of paying what ever they ask or more! Get a grip! Hey I got a bridge I can sell you. I Never pay retail for anything, and before A-Plan use to hose the used car dealers compared to what their asking price was. I never bought new just because I understand the game, and that's why I'll never buy anything other than a Ford as long as I get A-Plan pricing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Dude you way out of touch with reality! I take it you go to all the retailers you do business with, with the expectation of paying what ever they ask or more! Get a grip! Hey I got a bridge I can sell you. I Never pay retail for anything, and before A-Plan use to hose the used car dealers compared to what their asking price was. I never bought new just because I understand the game, and that's why I'll never buy anything other than a Ford as long as I get A-Plan pricing! Again, you're not reading what I'm saying...so I'll say it AGAIN for those of you who are slow: Getting a deal on something is NICE, but it shouldn't be EXPECTED. Period. You never pay retail for ANYTHING? Do you bargain with your grocer over the price of a box of cereal? Or maybe you buy the cereal you don't like just because it's on sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) Yes the Ranger is a HOT HOT selling product def room for a markup... :blah: I expect to pay no more than MSRP ever... This is why we have MSRP in the first place so that greedy dealers can be seen for what they are... If dealers could get away without using MSRP on the sticker I bet they would. If a dealer gets away with marking up a Ranger and people are buying them, good for him. (I don't really think he would, but hey, if he does, goody.) If you don't like his prices, go somewhere else. If enough people go somewhere else, he'll lower his prices. If he is still making money on what he's selling though, he has zero reason to lower his prices. That's the spirit of competition. Edited March 11, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) Don't confuse me not agreeing with you, with me not reading or understanding even if it makes you think your superior. Your just flattering yourself when it's not warrented! Again, you're not reading what I'm saying...so I'll say it AGAIN for those of you who are slow: Getting a deal on something is NICE, but it shouldn't be EXPECTED. Period. Wrong, I go into every purchase with the knowledge that if I don't get a good deal I will walk away and they can keep it at their price!You never pay retail for ANYTHING? Do you bargain with your grocer over the price of a box of cereal? Or maybe you buy the cereal you don't like just because it's on sale? Interesting you asked, When I buy groceries I go to three different stores buying the sale items at each. I am very price conscious, and it works to my advantage. Clipping coupons, reading sales adds, Yep thats what I do. I have been feeding a family of 5 on a $120.00 budget for the last 4 years since my son was born, and my deep freezer and refridgarator is full all the time! Every dollar I can save on things I need is a dollar I can spend on things I want. Your probably buried in debt, I'm glad I don't live like that! Edited March 12, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Don't confuse me not agreeing with you, with me not reading or understanding even if it makes you think your superior. Your just flattering yourself when it's not warrented!Wrong, I go into every purchase with the knowledge that if I don't get a good deal I will walk away and they can keep it at their price! And if all people selling that particular item are selling them at the same price, I guess you just won't own it huh? The definition of a "deal" is completely subjective. Paying a couple hundred over MSRP for a new GT500 would be a deal to me if the other dealer down the road has it for several thousand over MSRP. Interesting you asked, When I buy groceries I go to three different stores buying thwe sale items at each. I am very price conscious, and it works to my advantage. Clipping coupons, reading sales adds, Yep thats what I do. I have been feeding a family of 5 on a $120.00 budget for the last 4 years since my son was born, and my deep freezer and refridgarator is full all the time! Every dollar I can save on things I need is a dollar I can spend on things I want. Your probably buried in debt, I'm glad I don't live like that! All that driving around to save a few bucks on groceries? Wow. With the price of gas now, you'd better be saving a LOT on those sales or the grocery stores better all be next door to each other. As for being buried in debt... You obviously didn't see my post about debt in the other thread we are arguing in. The only "debt" I have is a mortgage...and even that isn't very large. I have three credit cards. All have zero balance. I have zero student loans. I have no home equity loan. I have no car payments. I have substantial positive total equity. Yep. I'm swimming up to my eyeballs in debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) And if all people selling that particular item are selling them at the same price, I guess you just won't own it huh? The definition of a "deal" is completely subjective. Paying a couple hundred over MSRP for a new GT500 would be a deal to me if the other dealer down the road has it for several thousand over MSRP. That is called price fixing and it is agaisnt the law, the record and CD retailers had to pay for a huge lawsuit for doing just that! All that driving around to save a few bucks on groceries? Wow. With the price of gas now, you'd better be saving a LOT on those sales or the grocery stores better all be next door to each other. My gas is also on and has been on a buget for several years. $20 for my Fusion weekly, and $30 to my wife's vehicle. When the price of gas spiked she traded her Explorer for an Edge for fuel economy. My buget never changed! As for being buried in debt... You obviously didn't see my post about debt in the other thread we are arguing in. The only "debt" I have is a mortgage...and even that isn't very large. I have three credit cards. All have zero balance. I have zero student loans. I have no home equity loan. I have no car payments. I have substantial positive total equity. Yep. I'm swimming up to my eyeballs in debt. I may have been wrong about this, but most with your attitude towards purchasing are buried! They buy with their emotions rather than displaying common sense! Edited March 11, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) That is called price fixing and it is agaisnt the law, the record and CD retailers had to pay for a huge lawsuit for doing just that! It's only price fixing if it is unreasonable. 3 dealers all asking over MSRP for a popular vehicle isn't illegal at all. My gas is also on and has been on a buget for several years. $20 for my Fusion weekly, and $30 to my wife's vehicle. When the price of gas spiked she traded her Explorer for an Edge for fuel economy. My buget never changed! That is respectable. You have more restraint and brains than most consumers. A lot of our country's monetary problems have nothing to do with jobs leaving, or people making less. It's people simply refusing to admit that they make less. We'd all get more from our money if we weren't a debt society. I may have been wrong about this, but most with you attitude towards purchasing are buried! They buy with their emotions rather than displaying common sense! Eh, we're all guilty of a binge purchase every once in awhile. Sometimes it just feels damn good to spend a buck. :lol: Just need to balance your needs with your wants. I've managed pretty well. Edited March 11, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) It's only price fixing if it is unreasonable. 3 dealers all asking over MSRP for a popular vehicle isn't illegal at all. Well at least through this debate we are gaining respect for one another, the quoted portion is the only part I have to take issue with. Price fixing is when retailers and service providers agree to set a price eliminating competition, this is the same basis for which monpolies are against the law. Edited March 12, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Well at least through this debate we are gaining respect for one another, the quoted portion is the only part I have to take issue with. Price fixing is when retailers and service providers agree to set a price eliminating competition, this is the samr basis for which monpolies are against the law. Some monopolies are legal. Look at pro sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) Try to pay attention. I did not say that some dealers would not TRY to do that. What I said was when the paperwork actually went through on a X plan sale that they would be called to the carpet by the X plan admins. They're not allowed to keep any rebates or charge you for accessories or options that you don't want. Regardless of the quoted price, your out the door price on a X plan sale will be the same at any dealer. It's only different it you allow it to be different. Correct....The X plan price (and he other price plans also) is on the invoice created for the car. So it is the same everywere. X plan pricing does not include various rebates and cash backs offered by Ford in different regions. You may or may not be qualified for them, so figure that out for yourself. But the X plan administrators, as mentioned above, will probably see you get what you are supposed to get. Some of you need to study up on how to buy a car. Without getting your blood pressure up. Another nice thing about x plan is you need not be in an adversarial relationship with the dealership. No need to shop different dealerships either. Just find one that will sell for X plan the vehicle you are interested in. Remember....the cars excluded from the plan are excluded by Ford (though probably at dealership request). I'm an old guy, and buy several cars each year for someone in my family. I am looking for best price (X plan for me), clean simple deal, spend little time doing the deal, and most of all, a friendly deal. I would never walk into a dealership like any other buyer. I always call the new car sales manager first before going there, always ask if they will sell the vehicke I'm interested in for x plan pricing, then always i ask him who I should contact to do the transaction. I know the salesman doesn't make much on X plan, so I don't waste his time nor jack him around and insult him with prices from other dealerships. I also expect the same from them....or I walk. While the salesman doesn't make much on these deals, it does count as a sale for him re goals and contests, etc, and of course the dealerships gets their hold back plus whatever else Ford gives them, so they do make some money and I want them to be satisfied in the deal as well. I refuse to negoiate, on X plan there is nothing to negoiate. There are some things to discuss though. BTW....I also politely refuse to buy any extended warranties, any insurance, or anything like that. I would refuse to pay any additional dealership fees, but also know X plan doesn't allow them. But be alert to them. I would also walk if the salesman says there is no need for X plan pricing since they are selling at same price without pin number. If you are leasing, be alert to the adding of Wearguard to contract. It might be a good idea and useful product when you turn the car back in, but carries a huge profit to dealership. On the Milan I leased recently for my mother in law at X plan pricing, I was able to negoiate a 50% reduction in this cost. She's 81, and rough on a car. I did that just to avoid a hassle when she turns the car in. She also paid all the lease in advance for a price reduction. X plan pricing on a Mustang is .996 X Invoice plus $75. On my Mustang recently, that was a tad under invoice. Other models are diferent price. On the Milan i just bought, X plan was a tad over Invoice. I also got all the rebates and cash backs. Just be nice in your dealings. It will save you money. You cannot outsmart a dealership. It's their business. And they know all the numbers. Just do your home work and stick to your plan. To avoid a hassle, I never have a trade in. I understand the dealership willnot/cannot give me more for a trade in then they can buy them at auction, so I know better than to try. An exception might be a special car they have need of on their used car lot. Edited March 11, 2008 by Ralph Greene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ralph - be aware that the rules changed recently and the dealers can charge a documentation fee up to $75 but no more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ralph - be aware that the rules changed recently and the dealers can charge a documentation fee up to $75 but no more than that. OK...thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 Again, you're not reading what I'm saying...so I'll say it AGAIN for those of you who are slow: Getting a deal on something is NICE, but it shouldn't be EXPECTED. Period. You never pay retail for ANYTHING? Do you bargain with your grocer over the price of a box of cereal? Or maybe you buy the cereal you don't like just because it's on sale? You can live without a new car, you cannot live without food, plus super markets are more numerous thus making comparison shopping more common. Do you blindly pay for your prescription? or do you call several pharms before you buy prices vary GREATLY. But I guess your just the usual sheeple and blindly go where herded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 You can live without a new car, you cannot live without food, plus super markets are more numerous thus making comparison shopping more common. Do you blindly pay for your prescription? or do you call several pharms before you buy prices vary GREATLY. But I guess your just the usual sheeple and blindly go where herded. I have insurance coverage for prescriptions. They cost the same no matter where I go. :P I'll comparison shop on big ticket items, but for the small stuff, yeah, I sheeple it up!! I'm not going to go comparison shopping to save a nickel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 I have insurance coverage for prescriptions. They cost the same no matter where I go. :P I'll comparison shop on big ticket items, but for the small stuff, yeah, I sheeple it up!! I'm not going to go comparison shopping to save a nickel. Insurance would not be as expensive as it is if people did a little more "shopping" for non emergency procedures. Do you buy food at walmart or at your local neighborhood boutique? Say for an average family one could save $100 bucks a month on food just shopping at wallyword rather than Zupans or Haggan. But then your prob on food stamps and don't care cause "someone else" pays for it kinda like your insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) Insurance would not be as expensive as it is if people did a little more "shopping" for non emergency procedures. Do you buy food at walmart or at your local neighborhood boutique? Say for an average family one could save $100 bucks a month on food just shopping at wallyword rather than Zupans or Haggan. But then your prob on food stamps and don't care cause "someone else" pays for it kinda like your insurance. Food stamps. Ha ha! Good one. Where do people come up with this stuff? And I pay for my own insurance. Granted, it's not too much since my JOB (you know, the one that keeps me off food stamps) pays for most of it. Just because you feel hosed, don't take your anger out with petty insults. I shop at the local chain grocery store. Any money I would save buying groceries at Walmart would be wasted in gas driving to and from the nearest one that's at least 20 miles away. One thing I love about this town -- they keep telling Walmart to go F themselves whenever they try opening one. Edited March 11, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I have insurance coverage for prescriptions. They cost the same no matter where I go. :P I'll comparison shop on big ticket items, but for the small stuff, yeah, I sheeple it up!! I'm not going to go comparison shopping to save a nickel. As for groceries I don't do coupons (I've tried, but I always forget them at home!) but it's always on sale. I did pay retail (MSRP) on my Mustang GT in 2005 when most dealerships had $2000-$4000 mark ups. I know some people got em cheaper, but it was worth it. I dropped by Pearson Ford today, they had two GT500s out in front with $25K over. I said, "It'll be nice when the SRT8 Challenger and Camaro come out....and you get rid of the addendum." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bri719 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 i agree its bad representation of ford. and the toyo ads, i cant stand that wilsonville no bull slogan. its total bs nothing's worse than the "I got my.. my my my MPG" lip synching ads. and the stupid geeks grinning at us with their Toyos. "real cars for real retards" is what I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 they keep telling Walmart to go F themselves whenever they try opening one. F 5.46 +.17/3.21% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 F 5.46 +.17/3.21% Wrong F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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