Ford to revive rear-wheel drive in U.S.

[mustangman9494]

hello with traction control on in my mustang it,s almost impossible to to put your rear tires out in front of you . so why can,t this technology be applied to small compact cars were a long way from pintos in case no one noticed .what little parisiticle loss the drive shaft willcause will more than be compensated for by the lack of valves and cams and timing belts a direct injection engine will have sure some people will always prefer a front ender just as the majority of us want a nice rear wheel drive car back again and i think you might be very suprised to see just how many do ! i never had a problem with my two wheel drive ranger and believe me in upstate ny it really knows how to snow! perhaps those frontwheel drive cars i see off the road are my imagination a product of snow blindness?, what a myth everyone knows how bad front enders are on ice .

[Deanh]

It's limited due to driveline harmonics.

everybody sing along!........driveshaft i bet...those damn RWD cars......

[jpd80]

In 1993, I did a run from Mantaranka to the Three ways in Central Australia, (Unlimited speed then in Northern Territory)

3 hours to 480 Klms (300 miles) and averaged 100 mph and US 20 mpg

all from a 4.0 I-6 Falcon with 3.23 diff and 4 speed auto.

I had the cruise set on 160 kph.

 

Wound her off the speedo - 220 kph (137 mph)

Edited March 25, 2008 by jpd80

[FordFanForEver]

Ford should make a RWD cougar, that would be sweet.

[Deanh]

In 1993, I did a run from Mantaranka to the Three ways in Central Australia, (Unlimited speed then in Northern Territory)

3 hours to 480 Klms (300 miles) and averaged 100 mph and US 20 mpg

all from a 4.0 I-6 Falcon with 3.23 diff and 4 speed auto.

I had the cruise set on 160 kph.

 

Wound her off the speedo - 220 kph (137 mph)

5.0 5 speed, 3.55 axle, headers exhaust.....3 hrs 10 minutes back from Vegas.....total average speed 85-90..........26mpgs! ...those sort of runs are impossible now...too much traffic, way too many holding radar guns....and PLANES!

[P71_CrownVic]

everybody sing along!........driveshaft i bet...those damn RWD cars......

Yep...And Ford takes steps to prevent it...they have an extended tailshaft housing off the tranny and the DS itself is made out of aluminium or a mixture of metals...resulting in a much lighter DS than the stock steel.

[mustangman9494]

you can still really fly on route 90 from buffalo to to victor either way after 11.00 pm state mounties trying to capture terrorists or something what a joy to have in back yard!!!

[Pioneer]

Yep...And Ford takes steps to prevent it...they have an extended tailshaft housing off the tranny and the DS itself is made out of aluminium or a mixture of metals...resulting in a much lighter DS than the stock steel.

 

 

Crown Vic/GM driveshafts are made of Aluminum. Yokes are steel.

[jpd80]

Seriously, I doubt whether FWD or RWD makes much difference to people with all weather tyres driving on highways.

In around local streets and up around tricky snowy stretches might be difficult but surely not enough to stop the determined.

Edited March 26, 2008 by jpd80

[P71_CrownVic]

Crown Vic/GM driveshafts are made of Aluminum. Yokes are steel.

Not civi models...or the Marauder.

 

Material is steel with exception to CVPIs and Marauders which use an aluminum driveshaft. 1999-2000 CVPIs used an AMMC driveshaft.

 

The standard wheel base 92+ CV/GMQ shafts are ~58.25 overall without the uoke and flange IIRC. The 92+ aluminum and AMMC shafts are ~1" shorter than the normal wheel base steel shafts (use extended tailshaft) and are ~57.25" overall w/o flange/yoke again iirc.

 

The Marauder shaft is essentially the same as the CVPI but uses a dampener on the yoke end.

 

The steel shafts all have the dampener.

 

p70/extended wheel base Crown Vics have a 6" longer driveshaft than normal cv/gmqs

 

Town Car shafts are 3" longer than the aluminum/ammc shafts and use the extended tailshaft. Town Car 'L's are 6" longer than the normal Town Car shafts.

[Pioneer]

Not civi models...or the Marauder.

 

Don't know about the Marauder, but we only ship aluminum driveshafts to STAP. I thought we were the only supplier.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Pioneer

[P71_CrownVic]

Don't know about the Marauder, but we only ship aluminum driveshafts to STAP. I thought we were the only supplier.

From a pre 1998 LTC:

 

[P71_CrownVic]

Don't know about the Marauder, but we only ship aluminum driveshafts to STAP. I thought we were the only supplier.

I'm sorry...I meant to say that the Marauder did get an aluminum DS.

 

Civilian CVs, all MGMs and regular length TCs got/get a steel DS.

[Pioneer]

From a pre 1998 LTC:

 

 

We didn't start making them until 2002.

[P71_CrownVic]

We didn't start making them until 2002.

I'm not saying that you made the steel ones...I am saying that most Panthers have a steel DS...Except for the exceptions above.

[EMDEE]

in this day of fast approaching four dollar a gallon gas ford of america needs many small sporty car platforms especially rear wheel drive sporty small cars!!! if they biuld it we americans will buy. i for one have been longing for this for i don,t know 27 years or so please abandon these hard and difficult to work on front whell drive platforms in a word they suck from a mechanics point of view ... what crap we,ve had to go through these last three decades or so my god what a curse these cars are we hate em!!! even though we know how to fix em and have learned the tricks and shortcuts they are complete rubbish !!! well at least from a mechanical point of view which ford and everybody forgot that oh yeah someones gonna have to fix this junk we sell nowadays as cars someday. it,s a trend back towards sanity i say.

This complaining about FWD cars being hard of mechanics isn't going to fly very high. It's the last thing on the designers' minds. All modern products, from toasters to TVs to cars, are being designed to work well with minimal maintenance for a predetermined, fixed period of time. After that, they are designed to be thrown away and recycled, not repaired and nursed along into antiquity. Beyond their planned life expectancy, they are designed to discourage people from keeping them. This is as true for Mercedes and BMW as it is for Ford, though they might differ in their planned life span. It's a different design philosophy than we had in the fifties, or even the seventies, but it's a key goal for nearly every manufacturer today. Making cars that are easily repairable forces manufacturers to stock parts for decades, which is very expensive and unprofitable. Today, you often can't find parts for cars that are 7 or 8 years old, let alone 15 or 20.

Edited March 26, 2008 by EMDEE

[EMDEE]

biggest problem with the LS that the platform was too expensive. Thats what you get whne you try and sell a 40k Lincoln off a 60K Jaguar. It might have been a great platform, but if its not making money for Ford, well its not worth the time.

 

Anyways, two schools of thought here....the last two major RWD programs that FNA did was the MN12 (thunderbird/Cougar/Mark 8) and the S197 (05+ Mustang)..the MN12 was a overweight pig that wasn't anything special even with the IRS (parents had a 96 T-bird) and the only big issue with the S197 is that it "lacks" an IRS on it. I'll go on and even say that my 06 Mustang GT handles better and is safer in bad weather conditions vs the 96 T-bird my parents had (loved to fishtail in the rain, even with traction control)

I can't help it - I have to respond. The LS sold over 60,000 cars in it first year and 50,000 the next. It failed for one reason: total lack of marketing and support after the first two years. The Cadillac CTS faced the same issues, but GM kept investing in it, creating the V version and now soon the Coupe. Plus they did a total remake after the first 4 years. The LS could have been profitable as well as the basis for other models had they just used their brains. Another one of its "problems" was that it was in many ways better than the more profitable Jaguar Ford was also trying to sell. Despite using the same platform, the Jag's excessive curviness gave it smaller, cramped feeling interior. It also had a less sporting suspension and its looks didn't age as well as the LS. I often wondered if Ford let the LS die as part of an effort to save Jaguar.

 

As for the MN12 TB and the related Mark VIII, I just choke every time I hear this complaint that they were overweight pigs. That is a complete myth. The T-bird weighed about 3650 and the Mark VIII 3850. They were hundreds of pounds lighter than anything remotely comparable. Look at what a BMW 6 coupe weighs, or any the "full figured" Mercedes Coupes. Even the supposedly light weight aluminum Audis check in well over 4000 lbs. The MN12s were misunderstood and misrepresented by the automotive press, the same writers who today don't say a word about about the fat European V8s porking around in the 4000 to 4500 lb range. The T-bird and Mark VIII were downright svelte by comparison, and had much more room in them to boot. They were darn good cars. The writers in their day were comparing them to the lighter, less solid, flimsy GM and Ford mid size cars of the seventies. On the world stage, the T-Bird and Mark VIII were full size sport and GT coupes.

Edited March 26, 2008 by EMDEE

[armadamaster]

I can't help it - I have to respond. The LS sold over 60,000 cars in it first year and 50,000 the next. It failed for one reason: total lack of marketing and support after the first two years. The Cadillac CTS faced the same issues, but GM kept investing in it, creating the V version and now soon the Coupe. Plus they did a total remake after the first 4 years. The LS could have been profitable as well as the basis for other models had they just used their brains. Another one of its "problems" was that it was in many ways better than the more profitable Jaguar Ford was also trying to sell. Despite using the same platform, the Jag's excessive curviness gave it smaller, cramped feeling interior. It also had a less sporting suspension and its looks didn't age as well as the LS. I often wondered if Ford let the LS die as part of an effort to save Jaguar.

 

Shhh!!!! The :cheerleader: s will hear you!

 

As for the MN12 TB and the related Mark VIII, I just choke every time I hear this complaint that they were overweight pigs. That is a complete myth. The T-bird weighed about 3650 and the Mark VIII 3850. They were hundreds of pounds lighter than anything remotely comparable. Look at what a BMW 6 coupe weighs, or any the "full figured" Mercedes Coupes. Even the supposedly light weight aluminum Audis check in well over 4000 lbs. The MN12s were misunderstood and misrepresented by the automotive press, the same writers who today don't say a word about about the fat European V8s porking around in the 4000 to 4500 lb range. The T-bird and Mark VIII were downright svelte by comparison, and had much more room in them to boot. They were darn good cars. The writers in their day were comparing them to the lighter, less solid, flimsy GM and Ford mid size cars of the seventies. On the world stage, the T-Bird and Mark VIII were full size sport and GT coupes.

 

You MADMAN! That's almost as crazy as what myself and others believe about the 's rivaling the ride quality and road characteristics of the high end Mercedes and BMW sedans and a fraction of the price. Lynch him!!

[P71_CrownVic]

As for the MN12 TB and the related Mark VIII, I just choke every time I hear this complaint that they were overweight pigs. That is a complete myth. The T-bird weighed about 3650 and the Mark VIII 3850. They were hundreds of pounds lighter than anything remotely comparable. Look at what a BMW 6 coupe weighs, or any the "full figured" Mercedes Coupes. Even the supposedly light weight aluminum Audis check in well over 4000 lbs. The MN12s were misunderstood and misrepresented by the automotive press, the same writers who today don't say a word about about the fat European V8s porking around in the 4000 to 4500 lb range. The T-bird and Mark VIII were downright svelte by comparison, and had much more room in them to boot. They were darn good cars. The writers in their day were comparing them to the lighter, less solid, flimsy GM and Ford mid size cars of the seventies. On the world stage, the T-Bird and Mark VIII were full size sport and GT coupes.

 

The Mark VIIIs were sweet cars. I love that on the later ones that went across the trunk lid. I wish Lincoln had made that a design cue that is seen on all of their cars today.

[ANTAUS]

I had a few of those "pigs", a Tbird and Mark8, and in comparison to some roomier family sedans, they weighed a bit more, but still handled very well considering it's heft. When I bought my first LS, I remember at 3650-3700lbs, it was considered a bit on the heavier side in comparison to most other sedans on the market at that time...that was 2000. Now on my 3rd one, I dont feel it's much of a porker when you have some Fusion AWD almost weighing in as much or even some normal 2dr sports coupes as well.

 

Take into account the current MarKqueX, weighs almost as much as the larger BOF Explorer.

[NickF1011]

True, but that's usuall where you aren't sitting, under the center console and the middle back seat, on FWD cars you have the entire footwell compromised due to the wheelwell being smack dab in front of the A-pillar.

 

Hmmm...my Mazda6 has considerably more front leg room than my Mustang. You can't even see the front wheel well from the interior of the Mazda.

[suv_guy_19]

Hmmm...my Mazda6 has considerably more front leg room than my Mustang. You can't even see the front wheel well from the interior of the Mazda.

 

Although my LX does have more legroom than my LH had...though that is probably more due to the strange LH engine setup.

[Deanh]

Yep...And Ford takes steps to prevent it...they have an extended tailshaft housing off the tranny and the DS itself is made out of aluminium or a mixture of metals...resulting in a much lighter DS than the stock steel.

theres another of those words P.....Aluminium or is it Aluminum.....American and English spell em different.

[P71_CrownVic]

theres another of those words P.....Aluminium or is it Aluminum.....American and English spell em different.

No...I spelled it wrong...

[Hemiman]

The guy in the Avalanche engaged his locking diff, and I have to tell you, Extreme 4x4 says those things are loud when they engage, and it sounded like the guy had bottomed out on a rock.

 

 

???? I've got front & rear ARB lockers in my truck. All I get is a reassuring "clunck" when engauged. Not that loud at all. I wonder what the deal was with that guys Chevy?