5.0L in the new Mustang

[Ford-150]

Autoblog.com

 

i know that we all know it is going to happen(I'm about 75% sure) but it is nice to see a Ford exec publicly talking about this engine

 

i find this engine to be very interesting and would love to know what it will rev to....

Edited April 17, 2008 by Ford-150

[jpd80]

Want to know what else Osborne said?

Here's a better extract of that from the original article at drive.com.au

The problem for Ford’s Australian division is its parent company’s move away from V8s to a strategy called ‘Ecoboost’ that embraces V6 engines with forced induction and direct injection. The V6 engines are aimed at retaining performance while improving fuel economy and emissions.

 

Therefore the larder is pretty bare when it comes V8 powertrains going forward. In the short term the current (4V) 5.4-litre V8 in Falcon and FPV models is expected to be modified to meet stricter Euro IV emissions levels that become mandatory mid-2010.

 

Beyond that Osborne confirmed a new 5.0-litre V8 to be developed and built in North America for the Ford Mustang was being examined for possible use in Ford's new Falcon.

 

“We have taken a look at [that V8] and it looks like it will be a pretty competitive engine, particularly if we decide to boost (turbocharge or supercharge) it as well,” said Osborne.

 

“We have to decide whether that is suitable for us, but we also have to compare those kinds of alternatives with the Ecoboost strategy. We will have to evaluate whether consumers here are wedded to V8s or to V8 [type] power and torque levels.

 

“One of the things we will be looking at is the sales mix of the I6 (inline six-cylinder) turbo [versus the V8].”

 

Osborne is conscious of the negative publicity that Ford Australia created when it dropped V8 engines from its line-up between 1982 and 1991.

 

While Ford waxes and wanes on V8s, there is no doubt it is progressing on a diesel engine for the Falcon and Territory. Ford is planning to introduce a turbo-diesel V6 in Territory in early 2010. This will follow on from a mild update for the Territory in the first half of 2009.

 

Dateline: May 2 when Kuzak and his entourage have their test and tune at You Yangs

and discussions with Ford Australia regarding regional and export proposals.

When their V6 engine man feels the power of the Falcon's 4.0 litre six, he will be ducking for cover!

Edited April 17, 2008 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

Meh. Their V6 guy has undoubtedly already driven the Ecoboost V6, so I doubt the I-6 has much to show him. DI + VGT = monster low-end torque.

 

To your chagrin, he may end up wondering what all the fuss is about.

[Blueblood]

Want to know what else Osborne said?

Here's a better extract of that from the original article at drive.com.au

 

 

Dateline: May 2 when Kuzak and his entourage have their test and tune at You Yangs

and discussions with Ford Australia regarding regional and export proposals.

When their V6 engine man feels the power of the Falcon's 4.0 litre six, he will be ducking for cover!

 

Autoblog is so late to the party, and the import loving ricers that post there make me sick..

 

It's sad to think Ford is killing what is likely it's best motor the company makes worldwide, I doubt the 3.5 will be able to match the stump pulling power of the 4.0L

[jpd80]

To your chagrin, he may end up wondering what all the fuss is about.

Gotcha!!!

 

No arguement with Ecoboost.

I hope the V6 is a roaring success - really do so there's no chagrin there.

That Detroit bosses want a second drive of the Falcon should prick your ears.

That Detroit bosses are at least discussing the potential of Rest of World Exports is pleasing.

 

We won't be breaking open the champagne but things are looking good.....Hey were walking.

 

AC/DC - Its A Long Way To The Top If Ya Wanna Rock And Roll

Edited April 17, 2008 by jpd80

[Ford-150]

1. Autoblog is so late to the party, and the import loving ricers that post there make me sick..

 

2. It's sad to think Ford is killing what is likely it's best motor the company makes worldwide, I doubt the 3.5 will be able to match the stump pulling power of the 4.0L

1. Autoblog is late to the party and I mainly surf there for news on other auto companies, and yes they have some of the dumbest posts on that site of any auto enthusiast site

 

2. yes it is, even though i have never driven either the EcoBoost or the XR6T engine I am sad that we did not get to taste it, i could see that engine being a huge success here in NA, i really hope they consider a bigger EcoBoost engine for the new XR6T and F6

[focus05]

My understanding is that the 3.5 in RWD applications produces north of 400 hp and 400 tq (similar to the I-6 turbo, including a very flat torque curve) likely with much better gas mileage than the XR6T's current engine. I would bet that people won't miss the I-6 after that other than sentimentally.

[Ford-150]

My understanding is that the 3.5 in RWD applications produces north of 400 hp and 400 tq (similar to the I-6 turbo, including a very flat torque curve) likely with much better gas mileage than the XR6T's current engine. I would bet that people won't miss the I-6 after that other than sentimentally.

well we also have to see how well it reacts to tuning.....the 4.0L I-6 is very good at making a lot more power than what comes stock

 

not doubting the EcoBoost and im sure if you scrap the stuff they use to make it fuel efficient and make use of both turbos then it will probably be a beast as well

[jpd80]

My understanding is that the 3.5 in RWD applications produces north of 400 hp and 400 tq (similar to the I-6 turbo, including a very flat torque curve) likely with much better gas mileage than the XR6T's current engine. I would bet that people won't miss the I-6 after that other than sentimentally.

 

Sentiment?

Even Ford chiefs have concerns over lack of torque in the new engine's naturally aspirated form!

There's no way 250 lbft in a 3.5 will work the same as 295 lbft from 4.0 litres.

They will miss the low end torque - a familiar hallmark of Falcon for 50 years.

 

As for Turbo applications, if you call replacing one turbo with two, then i guess it's progress....

Since 2003, The XR6T has demonstrated 20% improvement in fuel economoy over the 5.4 4V.

While Ecoboost may be more advanced with direct injection, the FPV versions of the 4.0 turbo have

been sold with over 400 hp for years. So from our perspective, so long as Ecoboost 35 makes

approx. 360 - 400 hp it's business as usual.

 

Turbo Fords in mass production are a bit newer for you guys in America, we're pretty much over

the Turbo 6 Vs V8 arguements and fights - although V8s are nice, the Turbos win hands down!

Edited April 17, 2008 by jpd80

[focus05]

Sentiment?

Even Ford chiefs have concerns over lack of torque in the new engine's naturally aspirated form!

There's no way 250 lbft in a 3.5 will work the same as 295 lbft from 4.0 litres.

They will miss the low end torque - a familiar hallmark of Falcon for 50 years.

 

As for Turbo applications, if you call replacing one turbo with two, then i guess it's progress....

Since 2003, The XR6T has demonstrated 20% improvement in fuel economoy over the 5.4 4V.

While Ecoboost may be more advanced with direct injection, the FPV versions of the 4.0 turbo have

been sold with over 400 hp for years. So from our perspective, so long as Ecoboost 35 makes

approx. 360 - 400 hp it's business as usual.

 

Turbo Fords in mass production are a bit newer for you guys in America, we're pretty much over

the Turbo 6 Vs V8 arguements and fights - although V8s are nice, the Turbos win hands down!

 

With 95 RON tune and maybe DI, that 3.5 (or a 3.7) will get very close to or more than that 295 from the 4.0. If the car loses some weight, you could make due with the 280-285 out of the NA 3.7 on 95 without losing any performance. Heck, drop a 2.0 EcoBoost and you have 280 lb-ft from about 2,000 rpm-5,000 rpm. Ford has engines that can and will cover the power needed for the Falcon, including the XR6T and achieve better mileage. That's all I'm saying. I'm not belittling what the 4.0's success has been, but it is on its way out, and its replacements will be sufficient other than the sentiment of the I-6.

[jpd80]

With 95 RON tune and maybe DI, that 3.5 (or a 3.7) will get very close to or more than that 295 from the 4.0. If the car loses some weight, you could make due with the 280-285 out of the NA 3.7 on 95 without losing any performance. Heck, drop a 2.0 EcoBoost and you have 280 lb-ft from about 2,000 rpm-5,000 rpm. Ford has engines that can and will cover the power needed for the Falcon, including the XR6T and achieve better mileage. That's all I'm saying. I'm not belittling what the 4.0's success has been, but it is on its way out, and its replacements will be sufficient other than the sentiment of the I-6.

Think of it this way,

Our Aussie 4.0 I-6 was a more efficient solution to importing the 4.6 2V and produces similar power and torque.

Your Cologne and Essex V6s are being replaced by the Duratec 35, a more efficient solution.

 

We just have to get used to having the same power and torque as our competitors but the hope is that

importing the V6 will save roughly $2,000/car meeting new emissions which Ford will pocket for themselves .

On 50,000 cars, that's an easy $100 million profit!

 

The 2.0 Ecoboost should be part of Ford's RWD plans, it's the perfect V6 replacement!!

[SVT_MAN]

You guys realize this comes down to the bean counters, right? That's the reality. Sentiment can only go so far ...

Edited April 17, 2008 by SVT_MAN

[jpd80]

You guys realize this comes down to the bean counters, right? That's the reality. Sentiment can only go so far ...

 

LOL,

You guys think we're hard cases - what was the reaction when the 302 was cancelled, Hmmmmm?????

 

Or, wait until the panther supporters have to change something!!!!!!

 

The initial reaction last year was - the inline 6 is gone? Oh shoot! Well we did get 50 years out of her anyway!!!

 

What's the most important to us?

Answer: Ensuring the Falcon survives - Moving to corporate engines strengthens those prospects.

Edited April 17, 2008 by jpd80

[SVT_MAN]

LOL,

You guys think we're hard cases - what was the reaction when the 302 was cancelled, Hmmmmm?????

 

Or, wait until the panther supporters have to change something!!!!!!

 

The initial reaction last year was - the inline 6 is gone? Oh shoot! Well we did get 50 years out of her anyway!!!

 

What's the most important to us?

Answer: Ensuring the Falcon survives - Moving to corporate engines strengthens those prospects.

 

Fair enough. I have to say that I think Ford Australia's 4L I6 is a world class engine. I assume that Ford is now going to use the 3.5L V6 to utilize economies of scale going forward. What IS a shame is that Ford couldn't choose the best engines from across the world to leverage this .. but that's how it goes sometimes.

[jpd80]

Fair enough. I have to say that I think Ford Australia's 4L I6 is a world class engine. I assume that Ford is now going to use the 3.5L V6 to utilize economies of scale going forward. What IS a shame is that Ford couldn't choose the best engines from across the world to leverage this .. but that's how it goes sometimes.

Well, there was something like 6 or 8 six cylinders around when Mulally arrived - pretty dysfunctional!

He's now got that down to Duratec V6 (3.0/3.5/3.7) and Volvo/Ford SI6 (3.0/3.2)

 

On topic,

I like how Bill Osbourne is good for sound bytes - something he says revirbirates across the Pacific.

Beyond that Osborne confirmed a new 5.0-litre V8 to be developed and built in North America for the Ford Mustang was being examined for possible use in Ford's new Falcon.

 

“We have taken a look at [that V8] and it looks like it will be a pretty competitive engine, particularly if we decide to boost (turbocharge or supercharge) it as well,” said Osborne.

 

Will keep posting any little snippets that leak out down here.

 

Does anyone know what performance numbers we can expect from a Mustang with a 400 hp/390 lb 5.0 liter?

I know it would be pretty quick - 0-60 mph in the high 4s?

Edited April 18, 2008 by jpd80

[MERKURXR4Ti]

Does anyone know what performance numbers we can expect from a Mustang with a 400 hp/390 lb 5.0 liter?

I know it would be pretty quick - 0-60 mph in the high 4s?

 

High 4's would be my guess as long as they work to lighten it, it should have a nice growl too.

 

Wonder how you big torque loving Australians will take to an ecoboost 5.0...I'd like to get one of those...

[Ford-150]

Does anyone know what performance numbers we can expect from a Mustang with a 400 hp/390 lb 5.0 liter?

I know it would be pretty quick - 0-60 mph in the high 4s?

the best number i would give it would be 4.7 with people averaging 4.9, hell it could break into 4.6

 

all i know is if the Mustang receives this power and maintains the weight advantage to the Camaro, well i don't think the Camaro will be eating small horses....

[snooter]

the best number i would give it would be 4.7 with people averaging 4.9, hell it could break into 4.6

 

all i know is if the Mustang receives this power and maintains the weight advantage to the Camaro, well i don't think the Camaro will be eating small horses....

 

5.0L with new underpinings (read IRS)...camaro will be but a pipe dream

[atomaro]

Some insiders are reporting the 5.0 4v GT will be able to run the quarter in the 12s...on par with the 03/04 Cobra. Weight is reportedly 3550 to 36650 pounds.

[NickF1011]

Some insiders are reporting the 5.0 4v GT will be able to run the quarter in the 12s...on par with the 03/04 Cobra. Weight is reportedly 3550 to 36650 pounds.

 

Ridiculous. Yes, it's great for comparison to its competition, but this horsepower race is getting absurd.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Fact is, the D37, as compared to the N/A 4.0L I6 is a reasonable comparison. One reason is that the D37 weighs a bit less than the I6. Another is that it is technically somewhat more efficient with respect to fuel usage than the I6. Were the D37 to be blessed with the TiVCT that the latest generation 4.0L I6 has, it would produce largely identical numbers. The D35 won't be that far off either with TiVCT. When under forced induction, I would suggest that the D35/D37 would be an even better solution than the 4.0L I6 as it was designed from the ground up with that kind of application in mind. Now, we know that the 4.0L I6 is hardly the engine it was when it was first penned on paper, but, the basic layout isn't the most conducive to its current uses and a more optimized layout of its bits and peices would have made it an even better engine.

 

In summary, 4.0L I6, damned fine engine, just not quite modern enough.

D35/D37 very well designed engine that has yet to prove itself in hi-po production dress, but likely will be a worthy successor to the I6.

[jpd80]

In summary, 4.0L I6, damned fine engine, just not quite modern enough.

D35/D37 very well designed engine that has yet to prove itself in hi-po production dress,

but likely will be a worthy successor to the I6.

Thank you for your kind words - my sentiments exactly.

We'll be ready to move on come 2010.

The biggest joy with the 3.7 and 6-speed auto is that it will force GM /Holden

to use the premium DI version of the HFV6 and 6-speed auto to stay with Ford.

 

On topic with the 5.0 V8,

If it's to be on the 4.6 architecture, that means the DOHC heads will be back

this time with VCT but maybe limited to the inlet valves like the D35/37.

when Direct Injection is added to the pot, 400 hp/400 lbft is possible!

 

By comparison, the bigger capacity GM and Chrysler engines will struggle with CAFE

and no wonder with Lutz already predicting the partial extinction of V8s by 2012.

Maybe Ford sticking with smaller capacities is about to finally pay off!!!

Edited April 18, 2008 by jpd80

[atomaro]

VVT has been confirmed. IIRC, there will not be anything interchangeable or common between the 4.6 and 5.0. DOHC is confirmed. You are looking at a motor with a high static compression ratio. As high as 11.8:1.

 

 

5.0

3.6" bore x 3.6" stroke

 

4.6

3.55" bore x 3.54" stroke

 

Edited 2x for accuracy.

 

Info from svtp

Edited April 18, 2008 by atomaro

[White99GT]

IIRC, there will not be anything interchangeable or common between the 4.6 and 5.0. DOHC is confirmed.

 

Everyone has been saying it is based on the Modular architecture, in which case quite a few things should be interchangeable... unless they are altering the bore spacing which doesn't seem at all likely.

[NickF1011]

Everyone has been saying it is based on the Modular architecture, in which case quite a few things should be interchangeable... unless they are altering the bore spacing which doesn't seem at all likely.

 

Even then, SOME things should be interchangable such as belt-driven accessories. I hope a lot than that is. Would make for some interesting retrofitting possibilities for all of us current MOD owners.