In order to get Fiesta, Mexican Workers had to cut their Wages

[one2gamble]

"The pressure has not been to raise the Mexican wages up, it's been to push the U.S. wages down," said Ben Davis, the director of the AFL-CIO Solidarity office in Mexico City.

 

No shit, thats what happens in every free trade agreement the US signs. That is the GOAL of the agreement.

[Michael Reynolds]

Honda never waved the American flag and told buyers to be patriotic and buy American. Sorry, but Ford played the patriotic card a little too often over the past 30 years to get away with, "sorry we are a global company now and if you don't like it, bub, that's just tough"

 

Nike got tons of crap for doing the same thing Ford is doing.

 

First and foremost, Honda is not an American company. If I'm not mistaken, Toyota hasn't 'waived the American flag' either. The two examples you utilize don't make sense. And seriously Nike? Shoe company v. Automotive company. You are an idiot.

 

And good for Toyota for rolling out the damn Prius, you come across like a broken record repeating yourself over and over again. Didn't Toyota have assistance with the development costs?

Edited June 5, 2008 by Michael Reynolds

[RichardJensen]

Also Nike got ripped for using sweatshop labor. Something Ford is not doing. They are paying a fairly, if not outrageously, decent wage, as well as providing benefits like housing, food, and schools.

 

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_dis...m?release=17264

 

More than 150,000 children currently attend school at one of the 200 elementary education facilities Ford and its dealer association has built and maintained in Mexico since 1966. More than 1.5 million children have graduated from these schools.

 

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_dis...m?release=17799

 

"Ford built 500 houses, essentially a new community called Nuevo Hermosillo," said Felix Guillen, Ford director of manufacturing operations in Mexico. "The 600-square-foot homes are rented to employees on a rent-to-own basis. Employees pay a percentage of their salary as rent for approximately eight years. After that, the employee became the owner of the house. Currently, 93 percent of the renters have become homeowners."

 

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=28161

 

“Ford’s commitment to sustainability reporting isn’t surprising,” said Brooke Barton, Ceres manager of Corporate Accountability. “Ford has a long track record as one of the first companies to disclose its sustainability policies, practices and goals, as well as its environmental and social performance metrics.”

 

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?...p;make_id=trust

 

Ford adopted the Code of Basic Working Conditions in 2003, which articulates the company’s commitments on key human and labor rights issues, and provides the foundation for the company’s efforts in this area. The company has also developed a range of processes to ensure that its own operations and those of its suppliers are adhering to the Code, which became a formal company policy.

 

There is a world of difference between Ford and Nike.

[mlhm5]

First and foremost, Honda is not an American company. If I'm not mistaken, Toyota hasn't 'waived the American flag' either. The two examples you utilize don't make sense. And seriously Nike? Shoe company v. Automotive company. You are an idiot.

 

And good for Toyota for rolling out the damn Prius, you come across like a broken record repeating yourself over and over again. Didn't Toyota have assistance with the development costs?

 

You missed the point. Ford has waved the flag on numerous occasions, but wants a "free pass" to off shore jobs and still wave the flag.

 

The money isn't the issue, it was the philosphy. Both Detroit and Toyota got $$.

[RichardJensen]

You missed the point. Ford has waved the flag on numerous occasions

WHEN?

 

You show me one ad campaign from the last 20 years that has Ford all wrapped up in the American flag.

 

You just offer me one ounce of proof that you're not pulling this all out of your hindquarters.

[Critic]

Red, White and Bold... comes to mind.

[RichardJensen]

Red, White and Bold... comes to mind.

Wasn't an ad campaign. That was the inhouse name for the "Dave" language. It's picked up some play in the trade press, but it was never used to sell cars.

 

Ford, in 2005, had the Star Spangled Banner in Mustang exhaust, and that's the closest Ford has come, within my memory, to wrapping itself up in its American roots.

 

Chevy, on the other hand........... "An American Revolution"......

[FordBuyer]

Question, and there is no offense meant by it, but when you are in the hardware store (or wherever for that matter) do you always ensure that the product you purchase (regardless of cost) is American made?

 

When I'm presented with a choice, yes. When not, no. If I can't buy something that is made in America, then my next choice is to buy from company that is based here. For example, I just bought a new washer and dryer and went with an American name..Whirlpool with home base in Michigan. I will not buy LG products or Samsung for that matter. If Ford ends up making nothing here and GM still does, then I will buy GM even though I own Ford stock and notes. Right now, I'm in market for new flat screen TV, and will go with American based company even though I know it's made Overseas. So my first choice is American made if possible, and then second choice if forced is American based company making things Overseas in order to survive. Foreign based is usually not an option for me. Taurus, Escape, Focus, used MKS are only Ford products on my list for future purchase. I do hope the Fusion does well and the Fiesta, but I won't be buying them new or used. We all have to make personal decisions and those are mine. I choose to support American workers and companies where possible.

[Noah Harbinger]

I do hope the Fusion does well and the Fiesta, but I won't be buying them new or used.

 

I decided purchasing a car used has almost zero effect on its manufacturer or the current accounts deficit, hence my used Elantra (bought from a Ford dealer).

Edited June 5, 2008 by Noah Harbinger

[FordBuyer]

Ford should build the Fiesta here and sell it in Mexico?

 

Or Ford should make every single car in the US and sell them all everywhere else, so all the mlhms in all the other countries can get mad about Ford off-shoring jobs there?

 

Ford is a global company, bub, and if you don't like it, well, feel free to leave this board forever.

 

BTW, what was the name of that Honda B car that they build here?

 

I perfectly understand what Ford is doing building Fiesta in Mexico and I support it as stockholder and note holder of Ford Motor. But I'm disappointed that Ford is cutting wages from $4.50 to below $3.00/hour as basis for getting the plant on Mexican soil. That is exploitation pure and simple. The workers at Hermosillo get $4.50/hour and the Fiesta workers should get the same wage. This isn't the early 20th Century when workers everywhere were exploited. Mexicans are human beings and deserve to be treated as such. In fact, the Hermosillo plant is one of Ford's best plants, and this new one will probably be as good and will be busy if gas prices remain high. Exploiting workers is not a virtue, it's an evil flaw. Ford should not be part of cutting workers wages from already low rate down to Chinese rate for workers doing a good job. Ford is just proving the UAW point about race to the bottom. Hopefully Ford will come to its senses and give Fiesta workers same pay rate as Fusion workers. I support that. As Stockholder, maybe I will present this propostion at next Shareholder Meeting next year. That is my right as I understand it.

[RichardJensen]

My guess would be that high commodities prices made the wage concessions necessary.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, in some markets, the wage concessions provide the net margin on the car.

 

If memory serves labor amounts to about 10% of the price of the finished product, and on a car like the Fiesta, Ford can't be netting more than about a 2-4% profit per unit. That makes wages a key area for cost reductions.

 

I don't like it, but frankly, I think Ford's hands are tied on this one. They need to turn a profit on this, and I don't think they can do so without wage concessions.

[mlhm5]

Maybe the reason Ford cut the wages was that they realized with the huge increase in diesel the transport costs increases for parts would be eating into the overall profit.

[Michael Reynolds]

Maybe the reason Ford cut the wages was that they realized with the huge increase in diesel the transport costs increases for parts would be eating into the overall profit.

 

Well why are your whining?

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Toyota announced the Earth Charter, a document outlining goals to develop and market vehicles with the lowest emissions possible.

 

Toyota had launched the Prius in 1997, only 5 years after announcing the Earth Charter.

 

Toyota Camry's, Lexus, Tundras and Land Cruisers low emission? More bullshit from Toyota.

 

If the Prius was the only car left in world and they offered me it for free l still would not want one l would prefer to walk than own a shitty Prius.

 

Gotta say l would prefer a Mustang they hold their price well you sell a lot of old 60's and 70's Mustang selling for over $100,000 mark. Still lots of 40 year old Mustangs on roads so they are very environmentally not wasteful do you know how much energy is used to produce a new car?

 

I can't see a Prius making it much past 15 years so they are an environmental menace and a waste of materials, Mustangs don't need car load of batteries another environmental nightmare where do all those Prius batteries end up? I don't know how Prius owners sleep at night. Be Green buy a Mustang they have lower emisions than Toyota's "Earth Charter" Land Cruiser.

[mlhm5]

Toyota Camry's, Lexus, Tundras and Land Cruisers low emission? More bullshit from Toyota.

 

If the Prius was the only car left in world and they offered me it for free l still would not want one l would prefer to walk than own a shitty Prius.

 

Gotta say l would prefer a Mustang they hold their price well you sell a lot of old 60's and 70's Mustang selling for over $100,000 mark. Still lots of 40 year old Mustangs on roads so they are very environmentally not wasteful do you know how much energy is used to produce a new car?

 

I can't see a Prius making it much past 15 years so they are an environmental menace and a waste of materials, Mustangs don't need car load of batteries another environmental nightmare where do all those Prius batteries end up? I don't know how Prius owners sleep at night. Be Green buy a Mustang they have lower emisions than Toyota's "Earth Charter" Land Cruiser.

 

That must be the reason Mustangs are outselling the Prius.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

That must be the reason Mustangs are outselling the Prius.

 

Yes you are right for once 9 million Mustangs will take a lot of catching up, Mustang still the best selling coupe of all time on the planet l got you wrong l thought you were an idiot.

[Michael Reynolds]

That must be the reason Mustangs are outselling the Prius.

 

What does that have to do with anything?

[Ford Jellymoulds]

What does that have to do with anything?

 

mlhm5 is a bit of an idiot you have got to make allowances, l think VW kicked him off their North Amercan website l can't think why? So BON now enjoy his posts instead.

 

When you are talking car sales mlhm5 still does not understand that Prius does not complete in the muscle car market just yet, he is just a bit thick the Prius will not sell a small fraction of Fiesta sells this year nobody buys them in Europe.

[Surgen]

Right now, I'm in market for new flat screen TV, and will go with American based company even though I know it's made Overseas.

 

I don't think there are any American based TV manufacturers any more. Even 'Westinghouse' is a Taiwanese licensee of the name.

[NickF1011]

Nike got tons of crap for doing the same thing Ford is doing.

 

Yet Nike still sells a shitload of shoes. What's your point?

 

Oh, and at last count, Ford still employs some 10 times more Americans than Toyota.

Edited June 5, 2008 by NickF1011

[inteller]

At the same time Japanese companies are building plants in the USA that employ American workers.

 

 

yes, primarily non union american workers. BIG difference.

[Michael Reynolds]

yes, primarily non union american workers. BIG difference.

 

Exactly, and they aren't making B cars here either.

[mlhm5]

I don't see the material difference between employing an illegal and off shoring jobs. The result is exactly the same. If Ford can build it for $4.50 an hour in Mexico, there is no way they are going to be paying 4X that for the same job done in the USA for long.

 

Unions cannot prevent Ford from expanding and building more cars in Mexico than the USA if sharp pencils tell Ford it is more profitable.

 

Ford workers can afford to buy the end product now, however under a two-tiered wage system, the newest will not, and no Mexican worker can.

 

Hardly a behavior worthy of any loyalty.

[Michael Reynolds]

I don't see the material difference between employing an illegal and off shoring jobs. The result is exactly the same. If Ford can build it for $4.50 an hour in Mexico, there is no way they are going to be paying 4X that for the same job done in the USA for long.

 

Unions cannot prevent Ford from expanding and building more cars in Mexico than the USA if sharp pencils tell Ford it is more profitable.

 

Ford workers can afford to buy the end product now, however under a two-tiered wage system, the newest will not, and no Mexican worker can.

 

Hardly a behavior worthy of any loyalty.

 

As usual you look at a piece of the puzzle, not the picture as a whole.

 

I doubt Mexicans that build ElectroLux appliances can afford them. I wonder how many of them that make VWs can actually afford them.

[mlhm5]

As usual you look at a piece of the puzzle, not the picture as a whole.

 

I doubt Mexicans that build ElectroLux appliances can afford them. I wonder how many of them that make VWs can actually afford them.

 

Perot had it right when he said NAFTA was a bad program. The real benefits from NAFTA flow to American based companies who are able to manufacture in Mexico, a low cost, third world country, and sell in the USA without paying any duty.

 

Basically NAFTA is rewarding American based companies for stripping out middle class manufacturing jobs and locating them in a low cost, third world environment devoid of any safety or environmental regulations and their costs.

Edited June 5, 2008 by mlhm5