How About Some "Out-Of-The-Box" Thinking to Save STAP

[iluvnascar]

With GM announcing a sudden and unexpected closure of their Truck Plant in Oshawa; and with no let-up in the high Canadian dollar and high energy prices........it's time for STAP to take the lead and offer the Company something that can be leveraged into a new product. The end of STAP is undoubtedly near......just look at this article which was in Thursday's paper:

 

The market for Ford Motor Co.' s Canadian-built Lincoln Town Car has collapsed during the past month, heightening concern about the future of the Ontario factory that makes the vehicle. Ford meets with U. S. union leaders and plant managers in Detroit today to discuss the continent's rapidly changing sales environment.

 

Sales figures show Ford sold 764 Town Cars in the United States in May, a drastic decline from the 4,508 the automaker sold during the same month in 2007. The company sold 6,176 of them during the first five months of the year, less than one-third the number it sold during the same period last year.

 

Political leaders in such cities as New York are darkening the future of Ford's big cars. The municipality recently mandated new fuel-economy regulations of 25 miles per gallon for its taxi and black-car services that Ford's current Town Car and Crown Victoria models cannot meet.

 

Historically, the Town Car has been one of the top choices for chauffeur-driven cars while the Crown Victoria has been a mainstay of New York's yellow cab fleet. Now, operators are steering toward other models.

 

"We have already begun moving our cars from Lincoln Town Cars to hybrid vehicles," said John Acierno, whose family owns Brooklyn, N. Y.-based Executive Transportation Group, one of the largest ground transportation companies in North America with a fleet of 1,800 vehicles. In the two months since the regulations were passed, 90 Executive vehicles have converted, he said.

 

"We anticipate that change to accelerate," Mr. Acierno said. "[Our] drivers are both doing the right thing in terms of the environment and coping with gas prices."

 

Executive and investment banking firm Lehman Brothers has set up a lending company called Green Car Funding Corp. to provide drivers switching to hybrids with low-interest loans.

 

Ford builds the Town Car, the Crown Victoria as well as the Mercury Grand Marquis at its assembly plant in St. Thomas, Ont. Operating on one shift instead of the usual two or three, the factory is one of eight of Ford's factories in North America running below full capacity, according to estimates by Global Insight Inc., a research firm based in Lexington, Mass.

 

U.S. sales of the Grand Marquis dropped by half in May, to 3,087 from 6,371 in May, 2007. U. S. sales of the Crown Victoria, while down 23% this year over last year, have not fallen as quickly as those of the other two sedans. Police forces continue to buy the vehicles despite rising gas prices.

 

"I'm sure if fuel prices continue to rise, then that's something we're probably going to have to take a look at," said Sgt. Keith Wilson of the Michigan State Police, which runs about 550 Ford Interceptor Crown Victorias in its fleet of 600 vehicles. "But for now what dictates how we purchase vehicles is whatever vehicle is best suited for the job our troopers need to do." Sgt. Wilson said the Fords are lauded for their size and performance. Their maximum speed is about 210 km/h.

 

Ford executives said in December that sales of its largest sedans would slide this year as the cars become primarily fleet vehicles and not bought by retail sales customers. But they were side-swipped by a rise in gasoline prices above US$4 a gallon that threatens sales of their bread-and-butter F-Series pickup trucks and SUVs.

 

 

Remember.....the Feds don't believe in aid to the auto industry. And the Provincial Government, although onside to a point, needs help from all parties (including the Feds). As I see it, the choice is to do nothing (and the Plant will close FOR SURE); or take dramatic action and see if it brings a response (an aggressive approach might reduce the risk of closure to 50%)???? The Ford Motor Company is in BIG trouble from all sides....and those that ignore that reality will see its death knell very soon.

 

I think that the employees at St. Thomas should tell their Union to tell the Company that they will forego a minimum of $5/hour for the next five years in return for a new product that will extend the Plant's life for at least five years. The $5/hour would amount to $120 million over five years; and such an initiative could likely be leveraged into at least a matching $120 million from the provincial Government; and even $120 Million from the Feds. If one realizes that $5 per hour is $3 after taxes; and if one believes (as I do) that a $30/hour job in the auto industry is no longer competitive and that a $20-25/hour job would be far better than no job at all..........then it becomes a no-brainer. I'd forget the "No Concessions" rhetoric.....such a position fails to acknowledge today's realities. Buzz has done wonders for his union members.....but he needs to look forward instead of backward and realize that he can't win a fight with the Companies, the Government, the Investment Bankers; and the world economy. Don't you think that an after-tax giveback of $3/hour would be a small price to pay for a 5 years (at least) of employment @ $25/hour???

[Aces]

Gee Nascar guy maybe we could work for forty cents an hour?

 

That should bring even more work.

[iluvnascar]

Gee Nascar guy maybe we could work for forty cents an hour?

 

That should bring even more work.

Another one in denial..........

 

Another one who just doesn't get it.........

 

$25/hour is a long way from $0.40/hour...........but perhaps your attitude deserves only $0.40/hour.

[GuyfromSTAP]

Another one in denial..........

 

Another one who just doesn't get it.........

 

$25/hour is a long way from $0.40/hour...........but perhaps your attitude deserves only $0.40/hour.

 

I think this is easier said then to be done.I think it would end pattern bargaining obviously but also it would mean we'd have a different contract then other Ford of Canada sites.I'f we were going to concede money the time was last contract.I think "most" are like you nascar that would trade cash for security,I would also.We are in troubled times now at Stap and not sure anything will save us.I don't even know if there is a model available for us to be cutting a deal for.I'm sure our union knows but ofcourse they don't tell.I've always been optimistic but I think our future here in St.T might be coming to an end.In your thinking I think the only way it happens is by somehow leaving the CAW because it is too radical for their understanding.

[iluvnascar]

I think this is easier said then to be done.I think it would end pattern bargaining obviously but also it would mean we'd have a different contract then other Ford of Canada sites.I'f we were going to concede money the time was last contract.I think "most" are like you nascar that would trade cash for security,I would also.We are in troubled times now at Stap and not sure anything will save us.I don't even know if there is a model available for us to be cutting a deal for.I'm sure our union knows but ofcourse they don't tell.I've always been optimistic but I think our future here in St.T might be coming to an end.In your thinking I think the only way it happens is by somehow leaving the CAW because it is too radical for their understanding.

 

I agree it's radical. But something needs to happen.....because the Plant is inevitably doomed. I don't think it can last until 2011. The products are ancient; they are sold ONLY to fleets and, as you know, Ford is trying to minimize fleet sales because there is no profit in fleet sales; and even the fleet buyers are making different choices now. If the employees want to work - and for a very decent wage (but not $30+/hour) - they need to step up and make an offer that is so attractive, the Government will come onside and the Company will have to think about its options. Admittedly, there is no product looking for a home right now.....but if the Company was presented with an alternative that would let them build something at a greatly reduced cost, they might have to consider it.

 

The Big Three are fighting for their very survival right now.....Ford has even mortgaged its assets to buy more time. So it seems to me that anything that brings IN cash - as opposed to costing cash - might have a chance. But if I were an employee right now, I'd be saving every dime I could lay my hands on. The contraction in manufacturing is going to make jobs very hard to find when there are so many more people looking for them.

[Charged92]

$25 an hour can't compete with two tier wages (UAW) and Mexican wages. I think STAP is closing and there isn't anything that can save it. I believe Ford knew this back when the "way forward" was first announced. We were just lucky enough to end up one of the last plants to close. Having said that, this is only my opinion and I really know nothing.

[BAZ]

With GM announcing a sudden and unexpected closure of their Truck Plant in Oshawa; and with no let-up in the high Canadian dollar and high energy prices........it's time for STAP to take the lead and offer the Company something that can be leveraged into a new product. The end of STAP is undoubtedly near......just look at this article which was in Thursday's paper:

 

The market for Ford Motor Co.' s Canadian-built Lincoln Town Car has collapsed during the past month, heightening concern about the future of the Ontario factory that makes the vehicle. Ford meets with U. S. union leaders and plant managers in Detroit today to discuss the continent's rapidly changing sales environment.

 

Sales figures show Ford sold 764 Town Cars in the United States in May, a drastic decline from the 4,508 the automaker sold during the same month in 2007. The company sold 6,176 of them during the first five months of the year, less than one-third the number it sold during the same period last year.

 

Political leaders in such cities as New York are darkening the future of Ford's big cars. The municipality recently mandated new fuel-economy regulations of 25 miles per gallon for its taxi and black-car services that Ford's current Town Car and Crown Victoria models cannot meet.

 

Historically, the Town Car has been one of the top choices for chauffeur-driven cars while the Crown Victoria has been a mainstay of New York's yellow cab fleet. Now, operators are steering toward other models.

 

"We have already begun moving our cars from Lincoln Town Cars to hybrid vehicles," said John Acierno, whose family owns Brooklyn, N. Y.-based Executive Transportation Group, one of the largest ground transportation companies in North America with a fleet of 1,800 vehicles. In the two months since the regulations were passed, 90 Executive vehicles have converted, he said.

 

"We anticipate that change to accelerate," Mr. Acierno said. "[Our] drivers are both doing the right thing in terms of the environment and coping with gas prices."

 

Executive and investment banking firm Lehman Brothers has set up a lending company called Green Car Funding Corp. to provide drivers switching to hybrids with low-interest loans.

 

Ford builds the Town Car, the Crown Victoria as well as the Mercury Grand Marquis at its assembly plant in St. Thomas, Ont. Operating on one shift instead of the usual two or three, the factory is one of eight of Ford's factories in North America running below full capacity, according to estimates by Global Insight Inc., a research firm based in Lexington, Mass.

 

U.S. sales of the Grand Marquis dropped by half in May, to 3,087 from 6,371 in May, 2007. U. S. sales of the Crown Victoria, while down 23% this year over last year, have not fallen as quickly as those of the other two sedans. Police forces continue to buy the vehicles despite rising gas prices.

 

"I'm sure if fuel prices continue to rise, then that's something we're probably going to have to take a look at," said Sgt. Keith Wilson of the Michigan State Police, which runs about 550 Ford Interceptor Crown Victorias in its fleet of 600 vehicles. "But for now what dictates how we purchase vehicles is whatever vehicle is best suited for the job our troopers need to do." Sgt. Wilson said the Fords are lauded for their size and performance. Their maximum speed is about 210 km/h.

 

Ford executives said in December that sales of its largest sedans would slide this year as the cars become primarily fleet vehicles and not bought by retail sales customers. But they were side-swipped by a rise in gasoline prices above US$4 a gallon that threatens sales of their bread-and-butter F-Series pickup trucks and SUVs.

 

 

Remember.....the Feds don't believe in aid to the auto industry. And the Provincial Government, although onside to a point, needs help from all parties (including the Feds). As I see it, the choice is to do nothing (and the Plant will close FOR SURE); or take dramatic action and see if it brings a response (an aggressive approach might reduce the risk of closure to 50%)???? The Ford Motor Company is in BIG trouble from all sides....and those that ignore that reality will see its death knell very soon.

 

I think that the employees at St. Thomas should tell their Union to tell the Company that they will forego a minimum of $5/hour for the next five years in return for a new product that will extend the Plant's life for at least five years. The $5/hour would amount to $120 million over five years; and such an initiative could likely be leveraged into at least a matching $120 million from the provincial Government; and even $120 Million from the Feds. If one realizes that $5 per hour is $3 after taxes; and if one believes (as I do) that a $30/hour job in the auto industry is no longer competitive and that a $20-25/hour job would be far better than no job at all..........then it becomes a no-brainer. I'd forget the "No Concessions" rhetoric.....such a position fails to acknowledge today's realities. Buzz has done wonders for his union members.....but he needs to look forward instead of backward and realize that he can't win a fight with the Companies, the Government, the Investment Bankers; and the world economy. Don't you think that an after-tax giveback of $3/hour would be a small price to pay for a 5 years (at least) of employment @ $25/hour???

[ute]

$25 an hour can't compete with two tier wages (UAW) and Mexican wages. I think STAP is closing and there isn't anything that can save it. I believe Ford knew this back when the "way forward" was first announced. We were just lucky enough to end up one of the last plants to close. Having said that, this is only my opinion and I really know nothing.

 

 

i think we all new it then ...but just looked the other way

 

what the hell was it 4 plants to be named later ......thats why Kuji left the sinking ship..he wasn't stupid

[armadamaster]

I think that the employees at St. Thomas should tell their Union to tell the Company that they will forego a minimum of $5/hour for the next five years in return for a new product that will extend the Plant's life for at least five years.

 

Or instead, how about Ford just get off their deadbeat a$$ and UPDATE THE PANTHERS instead of endlessly sinking money into D3s that nobody wants. Damn....that's an epiphany.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Armada Master

[suv_guy_19]

Or instead, how about Ford just get off their deadbeat a$$ and UPDATE THE PANTHERS instead of endlessly sinking money into D3s that nobody wants. Damn....that's an epiphany.

 

 

My friend, just as small a number of people want the panthers as want D3s. It just happens to be that most of the people that want the D3s are going to live longer. The D3 also happens to be a very flexible platform that can be used in many applications...unlike the panther.

[twintornados]

The chassis is dead.....just someone forgot to tell all the :cheerleader: trolls here that their beloved behemoth is going the way of the do do bird as the price of gas spirals higher and higher.

 

Ford has an opportunity to retain and grow the livery / cab market in NYC and other urban centers with a D3 based vehicle that has hybrid capability. A Transit Connect can also fill the parts that are slowly slipping away to other brands. STAP needs to be "flexed" to make it viable for any future product.

[taxman100]

The Panther is the only Ford platform that I trust. Once it goes, I guess I'll just buy used, or move onto someone with a better history of building quality front wheel drive products.

 

Unless you want a truck, Ford North America will be dead in a couple of years. Every Ford will be a foreign car at that point.

[NickF1011]

The Panther is the only Ford platform that I trust. Once it goes, I guess I'll just buy used, or move onto someone with a better history of building quality front wheel drive products.

 

Unless you want a truck, Ford North America will be dead in a couple of years. Every Ford will be a foreign car at that point.

 

Mmmmkay.

[SysEng]

The Panther is the only Ford platform that I trust. Once it goes, I guess I'll just buy used, or move onto someone with a better history of building quality front wheel drive products.

 

Unless you want a truck, Ford North America will be dead in a couple of years. Every Ford will be a foreign car at that point.

 

I'm not in the least bit surprised that as mentioned, Ford ( and Detroit's ) sales fell off a cliff.

 

What I find interesting is the Townie getting hit like that in one month. Smells like savvy buyers waiting for Ford to lower the price...

 

... or go bankrupt...

 

...and if bankrupt, there will be no Ford ( or GMC or Chryco ) to turn to for warranty service or parts. We "panther" customers are after all, a very finicky and careful breed after all.

 

Now if Ford folded, saving STAP is easy. We hive off the platform to a separate company that want to make money instead of playing politics.

[ute]

Now if Ford folded, saving STAP is easy. We hive off the platform to a separate company that want to make money instead of playing politics.

 

 

always thought about that ...employee buy of site and tools

 

drop the NYC market ( no need for hybrid)

 

sell to Leo's and livery ...i think market is there.........but that being said did Marathon not try that route ?

 

Quality would be amazing ...you own the company ...no more BS all on the same page

[Alcibiades]

If Ford discontinues the Panther, which seems likely, I doubt it will have much interest in puttng a new car line in at STAP, given the added labor costs involved in the current CAW contract. Ford is in a life or death struggle, and must cut costs where it can. Unless the CAW can bring its labor costs in line with the alternatives, STAP will close down. I think there may be an opportunity for North American production, given the cost of oil, and hence the increased cost of transporting cars or car parts from overseas. If I were a CAW member, I would push the union to get competitive on labor costs, so I could keep my job.

[NickF1011]

Now if Ford folded, saving STAP is easy. We hive off the platform to a separate company that want to make money instead of playing politics.

 

The days of the Checker Marathon are over. The lifespan of the Panther platform is near its end, no matter who owns or builds it. It would require massive investment to keep it DOT-legal moving into the latter part of next decade, and with the increase in fuel prices it is rapidly losing its allure, even as a low-cost fleet vehicle. No company outside a major automaker would have the expertise or engineering to keep it up to date.

[iluvnascar]

I foresee the end of the Panther......and the closure of the Plant......with an announcment around the end of 2010 that it will close in September 2011.

 

Meanwhile, in the intervening time, there may very well be a push from overseas companies looking to build small cars (i.e. VERY small and very fuel-efficient) in North America. An available assembly plant with a trained and capable workforce in tyhe heart of the automotive belt would be very attractive to a foreign purchaser.....IF they could ensure that labour costs and conversion costs could be competitive. And that's why I'd like to the see the workforce become very proactive in "advertising" their availability at a competitive cost.

 

Unfortunately, the days of losing your job and finding another one at or near the same wage are over. These auto jobs are terrific - even at a much lower rate of pay. Workers should do some very deep soul-searching.