wescoent Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/07/ford-wo...ost-stang-on-h/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 So... 340hp EcoBoost V6 6-speed paddle shift AWD Buttoned-down SVT suspension I'm intrigued... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calypsocoral Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/07/ford-wo...ost-stang-on-h/ ... and this is where Carroll Shelby comes in... *crosses fingers* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 rofl.... um no! Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Nice to see the grille in the illustration isn't chrome, of course that could just be me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Nice to see the grille in the illustration isn't chrome, of course that could just be me..... Yeah, but that's a current-fusion face and we already know a EB model won't beat the refresh . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Excellent news! It would be nice if Ford made these transmissions affordable at the parts counter, for the hot-rodder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 rofl.... um no! Igor No Shelby, or no hot Fusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 No Shelby, or no hot Fusion? no fusion... 2.5l EB - in an ST - and not at launch Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMSA-XJR9 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) no fusion... 2.5l EB - in an ST - and not at launch Igor I'd rather have no Shelby! Edited July 7, 2008 by IMSA-XJR9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'd rather have no Shleby! I know - but do you all remember theoldwizzard telling you how there will be no EB (besides the MKS) before 2012 - well my sources indicate - he just might be right - there will be NO EB in the Fusion at launch - none - 2.5l I4, 3.0l PEP V6, and Hybrid - that's all - there are HUGE plans for later, but once again - not at launch. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Igor, would you mind speculating on the reason for the lead time? Is it emissions testing? Supplier lead time for parts? It seems like we've known about Ecoboost since the beginning of 2008(?), so given that we are 6 months in to the lead time, why 3+ years to get the full lineup (excluding the V6 in the MKS)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Igor, would you mind speculating on the reason for the lead time? Is it emissions testing? Supplier lead time for parts? It seems like we've known about Ecoboost since the beginning of 2008(?), so given that we are 6 months in to the lead time, why 3+ years to get the full lineup (excluding the V6 in the MKS)? apparently with all the cutbacks most EB engineering is being done outside the glass house - and is delayed - I am sure when theoldwizzard finds this thread - he will have more insight Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I wonder if getting the Ford/Getrag JV up to speed contributed to the delay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I wonder if getting the Ford/Getrag JV up to speed contributed to the delay? no I believe it is all in the engine - afaik the transmissions are all ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fords#1Fan Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) "forthcoming Lincoln MKR" when did Ford Green light the MKR??? Edited July 7, 2008 by Fords#1Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang_Marty Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) Hell.... I'd be happy with the 3.5 and and manual trans. A Coupe would be icing Edited July 7, 2008 by Mustang_Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 With the way the market is going today, Ford would be better off developing the fuel-saving EB engines than the high-output ones. Of course, that would be the right thing to do. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Of course, that would be the right thing to do. And they will be there. Consider the lack of details, and the 340 hp from an engine that does 265 without. So the 340 hp EB sounds like bottom-rung economy turbo. At 450 hp, now we're talking hi-po. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahforseth Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Why is the MKR reffered in here, or do they mean MKT?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) apparently with all the cutbacks most EB engineering is being done outside the glass house - and is delayed - I am sure when theoldwizzard finds this thread - he will have more insight You hit the nail right on the head ! But add in management "churn". The Director of Powertrain Controls, Brian Wolfe, just moved on to replace Dan Davis as the Director Ford Racing (a nice "window seat", but the sign on his desk now says, "This is the end of your career"). The replacement is Phil Yuhas (sp?) from transmission. Nice guy, but no engine background. Add in all of the new European managers who don't understand US emission or even how to spell OBD II or CARB (and how is it that these agencies can say what your were doing for compliance last year is no longer adequate this year ?) and you have trouble brewing ! From the fragments of the org chart in my head, I don't think there is any management over LL6 (engineering supervisor) who has been on their current job assignment for more than 3 years, with most less than 2 ! Worse, these managers are so arrogant that they can't bring themselves to caucus their Technical Experts and ask them what to do. 2 of these Tech Experts, who given bonuses to stay back in '07, are now counting the days until when they have "fulfilled their obligation" (2 years) and can retire. The company has "bet the business" on EcoBoost. Now they have to make it work. Bosch knows it and have already started the "nickel and dime" them (in Euros, no US $, thank you very much) for minor changes. Add in the fact that no one in Bosch US is authorized to make a decision/take action without conferencing the "fatherland" and it is slow progress. Edited July 8, 2008 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) Igor, would you mind speculating on the reason for the lead time? Is it emissions testing? Supplier lead time for parts? It seems like we've known about Ecoboost since the beginning of 2008(?), so given that we are 6 months in to the lead time, why 3+ years to get the full lineup (excluding the V6 in the MKS)? EcoBoost is a major technology shift. First you have to figure out how to stick another hole in the combustion chamber. When you have 4 valves and a spark plug there is just not much room left. Lots of work to do there and at the manufacturing end ! Second, where are you going to stick the bloody expensive high pressure pump ? You would like it somewhat protected in a front end crash. I don't know where is wound up. High pressure lines, regulators, brackets, turbo(s), intercooler, waste gates, etc, etc. Lots of "fiddly bits" that were not there before. It's all doable, given the resources and time. Then, there is the software. The V6 for the MKS had about a 1 year head start. It was going to be done using the "traditional" Ford development process. This is kind of like trying to get two 8 year olds to slow dance ("You mean I have to touch him/her ?"). Ford is the "system integrator" (to use the aerospace terminology). That means that Ford is responsible for all of the hardware (except the ECU with some software, the pump and injectors), brackets, plumbing, wiring and software, including integrating the software that the supplier provided (even though Ford had perfectly acceptable software in some cases) . The Ford Software Engineers knew what the Ford Calibrators wanted/expected but that doesn't mean that's what the supplier wanted to deliver. Just as these things started to get worked out, management changed the rules. For all future EcoBoost applications (I4 and non-MKS V6), Ford would be become a sub-supplier to Bosch. While Ford would be responsible for calibration/driveablity/emissions/OBD suddenly those folks lost all leverage. Only a few minor pieces of Ford software would be carried forward. Oh you don't like the way that we do things ? Write me a check. So while the software engineers are modifying their code to "play nice" with someone else's system, they still have to maintain it to work with the traditional Ford systems for several more years. Kind of like your company saying, "We are going to start buying some Mac's so make all of that custom software work on their OS, but still make certain it works with Windows XP, Vista and keep an eye on what Microsoft has up its sleeve a couple years down the road !" Edited July 8, 2008 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) apparently with all the cutbacks most EB engineering is being done outside the glass house ... BTW, to my knowledge, no engineering has EVER been done in the Glass House (the nickname of WHQ on the NW corner of Southfield and Michigan). Most of Powertrain Engineering is located in Building #1 and #2. The sad thing is that when POEE Building was closed a year ago, there was no place large enough to co-locate the component, software and calibration engineers. IMHO, management missed an opportunity by locating calibration engineers down the road, primarily in Allen Park, at 2 other facilities. Edited July 8, 2008 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoMoCobra Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Interesting "part time" all wheel drive system. Was against the idea at first, however it looks like it is being outsourced. I would prefer FWD and a standard manual transmission. I doubt that a decent paddle shift would actually make it into this car. The extra cost has got to be too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 EcoBoost is a major technology shift. How so? DI and turbos have ben around for a LONG time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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