ViperPilot Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 What do you call a person who doesn't have enough confidence to debate others in the arena of ideas, so he seeks to silence those with whom he disagrees with by demonizing them? :shades:/gloves off You don't need anyone to demonize you, you've done a pretty good job of that yourself. You're too stubborn to see it. I'm not here to "debate" you, because debating with me isn't going to change anything and therefore is an utter waste of my time. You fit the computer programmer stereotype bang on though. Intelligent and meticulous with zero social graces. Which is why I don't want to deal with you any more. I tried to help you out, you're ungrateful, and annoying. I clearly see why your dealer has been the way he has, because no matter what, you're one of those customers that will never be happy. I can't tell where your dealer's failings begin and end any more, because if your behaviour here is any indication I wouldn't want you in my dealership. Good luck with your car. Have a nice life. Learn to unclench a bit before it kills you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 /gloves off You don't need anyone to demonize you, you've done a pretty good job of that yourself. You're too stubborn to see it. I'm not here to "debate" you, because debating with me isn't going to change anything and therefore is an utter waste of my time. You fit the computer programmer stereotype bang on though. Intelligent and meticulous with zero social graces. Which is why I don't want to deal with you any more. I tried to help you out, you're ungrateful, and annoying. I clearly see why your dealer has been the way he has, because no matter what, you're one of those customers that will never be happy. I can't tell where your dealer's failings begin and end any more, because if your behaviour here is any indication I wouldn't want you in my dealership. Good luck with your car. Have a nice life. Learn to unclench a bit before it kills you. Okay ViperPilot, the gloves are off with GaryG NOW! I read all the post to you from fmorriso for request for VIN information. Not one of those request justify your response here on the Ford Escape forum. You have went out of your way to come down on a customer of Ford. As you can see, I'm not a kiss ass like I've seen here. I may not agree with the post in this thread, you are acting like an asshole now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Okay ViperPilot, the gloves are off with GaryG NOW! I read all the post to you from fmorriso for request for VIN information. Not one of those request justify your response here on the Ford Escape forum. You have went out of your way to come down on a customer of Ford. As you can see, I'm not a kiss ass like I've seen here. I may not agree with the post in this thread, you are acting like an asshole now! You are certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. I don't expect anyone to kiss my ass, and by the same token don't expect me to do the same. I have limits to my patience just like everyone else. I'm not going to sit idly by while someone attacks my integrity with innuendo. I doubt you would either. You are not privy to PMs I have received, which means you are berating me knowing half the story. You also don't realize that this post: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...;p=406502\ Danger! Danger Will Robinson! Knowing too much information about the vehicle production process can be dangerous! The preceding message was brought to you by all the people on this forum who post comments designed to make people like you and me feel like complete idiots for daring to seek the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about what's really going on in regards to the production process of our (yes, I deliberately used "our" as in the possessive) vehicles. :shades: ...was also in reference to me. I have gone out of my way to help as much as I can within the limits I am bound by. I have been nothing but honest and forthcoming and I pass along my knowledge as best as I am able. I'm not hiding anything, although that's what I'm being accused of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricC5Vett Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 (edited) Surely there must be a Corvette site you can attack people on?? Yes, I spend a fair amout of time on the Corvette Forum as I am a lifelong enthisiast, but attacking people really isn't my thing. I suppose I just got caught up in a wave of disgust by what is going on here. There's way too much negativity, a vehicle forum is supposed to be a positive place where people of a common interest can share information, that's all... Edited September 25, 2008 by EricC5Vett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted September 26, 2008 Author Share Posted September 26, 2008 Yet another failure to own up to your actions. Don't you see a pattern emerging? Take a look at this. After reading the above, I don't think you'll be so quick to blame me for fighting the dealer to make him honor the April 21 price, which according to what the CT dealer is saying, is within my legal rights to demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook686 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 (edited) ... After reading the above, I don't think you'll be so quick to blame me for fighting the dealer to make him honor the April 21 price, which according to what the CT dealer is saying, is within my legal rights to demand. hmmmm I do not blame you and the CT may be correct that fighting the dealer is within your right. None of this changes my opinion of your behavior in this matter ... I still think you behaved as a BH. Edited September 26, 2008 by Hook686 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lantern Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 hmmmm I do not blame you and the CT may be correct that fighting the dealer is within your right. None of this changes my opinion of your behavior in this matter ... I still think you behaved as a BH. Ditto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 After reading the above, I don't think you'll be so quick to blame me for fighting the dealer to make him honor the April 21 price, which according to what the CT dealer is saying, is within my legal rights to demand. Nobody blames you for trying to negotiate the old price with your dealer. Where we disagree is your recourse if the dealer says no. Let's play Judge Judy. You signed a purchase agreement with the following item: #1. With respect to new vehicle orders, if the manufacturer/distributor changes the suggested retail price of the ordered vehicle or equipment, or substantially modifies the ordered vehicle design/equipment, or does not manufacture or distribute the ordered vehicle, Dealer may cancel this order or change the vehicle price accordingly. If the price is increased by Dealer, Purchaser may cancel this order. ..... In this case the manufacturer DID change the MSRP of the vehicle and that new MSRP will be reflected on the window sticker when the vehicle arrives. That isn't affected by the price protection. Therefore the dealer is allowed, based on the agreement and item #1, to either cancel the order or change the price. The dealer chose to change the price. Since the dealer increased the price, you have the option of paying the new price or canceling the order. It's black and white. It has nothing to do with whether the order was price protected or not because the MSRP changed which kicked in clause #1. It has nothing to do with whether the dealer should or should not have raised the price. It has to do with whether the dealer was within their rights based on the purchase agreement YOU signed. Judgement for the defendant. Your case is dismissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twolostminds Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on my friend Some people started typeing not knowing what it was And they'll continue typeing forever just because This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on my friend Some people started typeing not knowing what it was And they'll continue typeing forever just because This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on my friend Some people started typeing not knowing what it was And they'll continue typeing forever just because This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on my friend Some people started typeing not knowing what it was And they'll continue typeing forever just because...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted September 27, 2008 Author Share Posted September 27, 2008 This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on my friend Some people started typeing not knowing what it was And they'll continue typeing forever just because This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on my friend Some people started typeing not knowing what it was And they'll continue typeing forever just because This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on my friend Some people started typeing not knowing what it was And they'll continue typeing forever just because This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on my friend Some people started typeing not knowing what it was And they'll continue typeing forever just because...... Finally someone (actually, a nice couple if I recall correctly) with a sense of humor vs. the usual "He Hate Me" types. Has anybody who was waiting on a FEH or FEHL built between Sept 8-12 taken delivery yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09feh Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 To answer your question - if I was in your situation I would either pay the extra $1030 or walk away. FM Whew, In light of your new information, Good thing you didn't take this advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09feh Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 Otherwise you've got whatever's coming to you, and I think everybody can already see, it's not going to be $1,030. And if that queer analogy to a gila monster is what sustains you in your pig-headed fight to the bitter end of a legal battle you have zero chance of winning (because you're just plain wrong), then more gila power to you. The law is the law. The law permits the dealer to do whatever he's doing. The law isn't going to make an exception just because some manager lost their temper with you (I would too). And you're just plain mad at all of the above and want to hurt them back. That's really the bottom line for you, is it not? Or this advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09feh Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 If they don't someone should make them aware of the threat. After all he did mention the dealership in this thread multiple times. I do have to side with the dealer on this one... :reading: or this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09feh Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 You did not have a guaranteed price in April, you had an estimated price. You did not ask the dealer if he would accept an x-plan sale at the time which is what was supposed to happen. You are now assuming that the dealer did not have the price raised to him. So as retaliation for the dealer wanting to pass along the price increase (which they are allowed to do) you sought an x-plan price (which was within your right). The dealer refused (which was within his rights) so you now want to take him to court or task through the various methods you have discussed above. The dealer had no right to yell at you as you say he did so I am in agreement with you that this was totally wrong. this one too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted September 27, 2008 Author Share Posted September 27, 2008 (edited) Nobody blames you for trying to negotiate the old price with your dealer. Where we disagree is your recourse if the dealer says no. Let's play Judge Judy. You signed a purchase agreement with the following item: In this case the manufacturer DID change the MSRP of the vehicle and that new MSRP will be reflected on the window sticker when the vehicle arrives. That isn't affected by the price protection. Therefore the dealer is allowed, based on the agreement and item #1, to either cancel the order or change the price. The dealer chose to change the price. Since the dealer increased the price, you have the option of paying the new price or canceling the order. It's black and white. It has nothing to do with whether the order was price protected or not because the MSRP changed which kicked in clause #1. It has nothing to do with whether the dealer should or should not have raised the price. It has to do with whether the dealer was within their rights based on the purchase agreement YOU signed. Judgement for the defendant. Your case is dismissed. I offer the following in a gesture of humor in response to "Judge Judy" above while awaiting arrival of my vehicle at the dealer. Try not to turn on the flamethrower-type responses right away, unless you're totally devoid of a sense of humor, in which case, feel free to fire when ready. Imagine what Patrick Henry would say, if he was alive today and attempting to purchase a 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid ordered on April 21, 2008 at price level 915 but being told shortly before delivery that he will have to pay at price level 920 (an extra $1030). The following is patterned after his famous speech to the Second Virginia Revolutionary Convention meeting at St. John's Church, Richmond, on March 23, 1775: My fellow forum people, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of those who say you deserve what you are getting till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle to obtain a Ford Escape Hybrid? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it. I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience from ordering six previous vehicles. I know of no way of judging the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the dealer for the last five months to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and this forum. Is it that insidious smile with which our vehicle order has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a misleading dealer invoice. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Our emails to the dealer have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional deception and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from obtaining that which we are seeking! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to obtain the vehicle at the originally agreed upon price -- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable driving privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until the dealer has sold the vehicle out from under us? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power, particularly those agencies with the ability to provide justice and fairness to a system that lately seems to know neither. The millions of consumers, engaged in the holy cause of acquiring a vehicle, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which a dealer can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a judicial process that presides over the destinies of consumers, and who will raise up judges to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the dealer alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and loss of the vehicle! The court battle is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.. It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The vehicle is actually on its way! The next gale that sweeps from the Kansas City Assembly Plant will bring to our ears the sound of vehicle transports arriving! What is it that the naysayers wish? What would they have? Are their funds so dear or peace with Ford and/or the dealer so sweet, as to be purchased at the highest price the dealer can charge? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me the vehicle at the originally agreed upon price or give me my day in court! Edited September 27, 2008 by fmorriso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lantern Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 (edited) this one too.... I stand by my views on this pal. I continue to say that a consumer should work to get the best price they can but the threat of lawsuit is not the way to do this. I believe his dealer is a jerk and he should have left that guy a long time ago but waiting until the very end, when a price may not have been firmly established between the two parties, to haggle and gripe over pricing is a plan to fail. So you can disagree with me all you want because I have read enough of FM's posts to know that he is not someone I would ever agree with nor care to. I think he is a little whiner and I do not like people trying to act big and bad threatening litigation when our court system is over run with stupid crap like this already. But I tell you what...I will make you a deal. If FM wants to keep his complaints and discussions over this topic on this thread and not go off on other threads with his smoking gun consipiracy theory rants then I will stay off this thread and leave him and anyone who supports him to continue expressing themselves here and I will not say another word about it. I will continue to read and post on the positive things of this forum and leave the negativity to here. Edited September 27, 2008 by Green Lantern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FEH2009 Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 hmmmm I do not blame you and the CT may be correct that fighting the dealer is within your right. None of this changes my opinion of your behavior in this matter ... I still think you behaved as a BH. Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09feh Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I stand by my views on this pal. I continue to say that a consumer should work to get the best price they can but the threat of lawsuit is not the way to do this. I believe his dealer is a jerk and he should have left that guy a long time ago but waiting until the very end, when a price may not have been firmly established between the two parties, to haggle and gripe over pricing is a plan to fail. So you can disagree with me all you want because I have read enough of FM's posts to know that he is not someone I would ever agree with nor care to. I think he is a little whiner and I do not like people trying to act big and bad threatening litigation when our court system is over run with stupid crap like this already. But I tell you what...I will make you a deal. If FM wants to keep his complaints and discussions over this topic on this thread and not go off on other threads with his smoking gun consipiracy theory rants then I will stay off this thread and leave him and anyone who supports him to continue expressing themselves here and I will not say another word about it. I will continue to read and post on the positive things of this forum and leave the negativity to here. And while you and the others here continue to call him childhood names for challenging the system and holding people ACCOUNTABLE for their actions, he is still taking action to CHANGE, not ACCEPT improper activity by others. So keep ridiculing him, He might just EXPOSE this dealer for improper and possibly illegal activity and keep others from getting ripped off by the same crook(s)... nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FEH2009 Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 hmmmm I do not blame you and the CT may be correct that fighting the dealer is within your right. None of this changes my opinion of your behavior in this matter ... I still think you behaved as a BH. Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 fmorriso has every right to be pissed off and threaten this dealership. I'm seeing this rip off again and again by these dishonest dealers. Where did a verbal agreement between two people give one the right to screw someone that had insight in ordering in April? Well, Green Lantern and others got a great deals, this guy didn't, so don't post your crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FEH2009 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 fmorriso has every right to be pissed off and threaten this dealership. I'm seeing this rip off again and again by these dishonest dealers. Where did a verbal agreement between two people give one the right to screw someone that had insight in ordering in April? Well, Green Lantern and others got a great deals, this guy didn't, so don't post your crap! Seriously, can someone stop this thread. While somewhat entertaining at best, it is really beginning to irritate. At the end of the day, i dont think anyone disagreed that the dealer may be at fault or was being dishonest. If you go back and read all replies you will see they have a problem with a particular posters way he/she was handling the issue. So don't post your.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 fmorriso has every right to be pissed off and threaten this dealership. I'm seeing this rip off again and again by these dishonest dealers. Where did a verbal agreement between two people give one the right to screw someone that had insight in ordering in April? Well, Green Lantern and others got a great deals, this guy didn't, so don't post your crap! There we go with the victim mentality again. There is nothing dishonest about a dealer having a SIGNED purchase agreement and following the rules of the purchase agreement. The dealer didn't raise the price - Ford did, which allowed the dealer to raise their price - legally. Just because you don't like something that doesn't make it illegal or dishonest. You don't sue someone because they followed the letter of a purchase agreement that YOU signed and agreed to. If that can be done then there's no reason to have any contracts in the first place. Since I don't feel like repeating this any more, I'm out of here. You guys continue the pity party if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorriso Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share Posted September 28, 2008 (edited) There we go with the victim mentality again. There is nothing dishonest about a dealer having a SIGNED purchase agreement and following the rules of the purchase agreement. The dealer didn't raise the price - Ford did, which allowed the dealer to raise their price - legally. Just because you don't like something that doesn't make it illegal or dishonest. You don't sue someone because they followed the letter of a purchase agreement that YOU signed and agreed to. If that can be done then there's no reason to have any contracts in the first place. Since I don't feel like repeating this any more, I'm out of here. You guys continue the pity party if you like. I'm mildly disappointed at the flame throwers on this forum. Not one of you had enough of a funny bone within you to respond with something in keeping with the humor of my "Patrick Henry buys a Ford" post like: "me think you doth protest too much". Now that would have been funny. Instead, you post the same old unimaginative tripe. Try to do better next time. :stats: Meanwhile, getting back to matters of the present, has anyone who ordered a 2009 FEH or FEHL that has a Produced Date on or after September 10, 2008 taken delivery yet? Edited September 28, 2008 by fmorriso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twolostminds Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 fmorriso has every right to be pissed off and threaten this dealership. I I both agree and disagree with this statement. Be pissed off, absolutely. Threaten, I'm not so sure about. If I remember correctly, Fmorriso signed a contract that allowed the dealership in the event of a price increase to either cancel the order or increase the price. It also allowed the buyer to cancel the order and receive his deposit back or agree to the new price. I may be completely wrong on this but I'm tired, don't remember and do not have time to go through 10 pages of the thread to find out. I NEED more coffee! In any case, if I am correct in my above assumption, the dealer has the right to pass on this price increase, per the contract wording, and then file a price increase claim and make even more money from the customer. This sucks big llama butt! It is not moral but is legal. Threatening legal action will get you nowhere. HOWEVER, contacting Ford Customer Relations and filing a complaint may prove very useful if you are persistant in a congenial mannor. As my Nana used to say...the sweet words catch the most ears. On more humorous note...NJ State Lottery is selling Ford Escape Hybrid scratch off tickets where the big prize is a new FEH. lol We didnt win lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
09feh Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 There we go with the victim mentality again. There is nothing dishonest about a dealer having a SIGNED purchase agreement and following the rules of the purchase agreement. The dealer didn't raise the price - Ford did, which allowed the dealer to raise their price - legally. Just because you don't like something that doesn't make it illegal or dishonest. Did you even read his post regarding the price increase? you type "The dealer didn't raise the price - Ford did, which allowed the dealer to raise their price - legally." What makes you so sure that the dealer actually paid the increase to Ford? Not that a dealer would ever LIE and said they had to pay it hoping to get an extra grand in profit when they (the dealer) actually paid the pre 08/01 cost... Oh that's right, you typed that you would have just paid it.....instead of researching your options.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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