Flash of Genius

[SVT_MAN]

This movie, in my opinion, is like punching Ford in the face when they're lying on the ground, already bleeding with several teeth knocked out.

 

Don't get me wrong - this movie looks like it is going to be good, but this is about the most horrible time for it to come out. Even though this movie deals with Ford from about 40 years ago, consumers are going to see the name Ford on the screen and associate it with evil. Why aren't there any movies made about how Toyota overworks their employees to the point of death? Oh, wait, it's because movie makers are from California and drive around in "earth-saving" Priuses.

 

Anyway - anybody else have thoughts on this movie? I think Ford needs to take this article's advice and launch a PR campaign to tharwt this movie. Current management can't take the blame for what Ford did 40 years ago. That as a different time ...

 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../809280313/1014

[timmm55]

This movie, in my opinion, is like punching Ford in the face when they're lying on the ground, already bleeding with several teeth knocked out.

 

Don't get me wrong - this movie looks like it is going to be good, but this is about the most horrible time for it to come out. Even though this movie deals with Ford from about 40 years ago, consumers are going to see the name Ford on the screen and associate it with evil. Why aren't there any movies made about how Toyota overworks their employees to the point of death? Oh, wait, it's because movie makers are from California and drive around in "earth-saving" Priuses.

 

Anyway - anybody else have thoughts on this movie? I think Ford needs to take this article's advice and launch a PR campaign to tharwt this movie. Current management can't take the blame for what Ford did 40 years ago. That as a different time ...

 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../809280313/1014

 

 

One person who saw it said it wasn't a hatchet job on Ford. I haven't sen it yet. But a lot of people know Henry Ford's Nazi connection in WWII and realize that was a different time and place. I would imagine the same here. And they don't hold the Japanese or German auto industrialists to their past. The 60s and 70s were very competitive for the Big Three. Industrial espionage was rampant.

 

I would like to see Michael Moore do a piece on Toyota's work ethic/subjugation.

Like it or not, the Prius does have the best gas mileage in this country (I wish it was an American car), and Toyota and Honda's corporate MPG is much higher. What would you expect to be the "Green" darling.....a Hummer?

 

Launching an ad campaign against the movie would be touchy. It would look like they are still up to the same old stuff.

[goinbroke2]

I haven't seen it either, but when the commercial came on tv the wife asked when did that happen. She was under the impression that it was like a recent court ruling or something being released. I agree it's a stab at the one domestic the japanese are concerned with. Why wasn't gm or mopar mentioned? Oh yeah look where they are in comparison to ford right now.

First thing I thought of was who made the movie and why. Yes paramount or whoever it is, is japanese owned and yes the movies since then have been more ninja/martial arts/animae/fighting/violence. All disney hero's are non-caucasian (mulan etc) bad guys are now the stereotypical "hun" or caucasian with a "nazi" look.

 

So is it any suprise that if they own the most powerfull propaganda tool available, that they use it? Of course not. The sheeple will eat this up and think "damn domestic's, I was right to buy an import"

 

What can be done? Nothing by ford, that's for sure. I too would like to see a piece on toyota and their practices, as you can well imagine it would cast them in a bad light. (like this movie does for ford)

 

Was toyota or honda involved in this? You could certainly never prove it, but "families" help each other in Japan. You work at shushang industries?(for example), you drive this vehicle and you bank here , you can go elsewhere but don't expect much of your career.

 

All manufactures have skeletons in their closet, the timing of releasing some of fords is a little suspicious.

 

It could be a very good movie and not hatchet ford as previously stated, I hope so. I enjoyed "Tucker" too and thought wow the big guys really stomped that poor little guy. But I don't remember the "big guy" being named like this obviously is. I'll watch it, but I have a bad feeling their are hidden or subtle messages that I'll grasp that others won't, until I bring them up after.

 

We'll see

[SVT_MAN]

What can be done? Nothing by ford, that's for sure. I too would like to see a piece on toyota and their practices, as you can well imagine it would cast them in a bad light. (like this movie does for ford)

 

Well, something can be done though. If a movie being released about Toyota's ethics, Toyota's PR department would already be on this .... as I've said before, Ford's PR team is weak.

 

Launching an ad campaign against the movie would be touchy. It would look like they are still up to the same old stuff.

 

It wouldn't be an ad campaign. That would be weird. But so is Ford's statement of "No comment" when asked about this.

 

It would be a PR statement. Something to reverse the spin that a lot of people are trying to put on this story. Toyota is great at this. Ford is not. That's my point.

Edited October 3, 2008 by SVT_MAN

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Hope we get to see the movie in the UK but l don't think we will, it will be great to see the old Fords of the period.

 

Gotta say bad PR never bothered me if l lived for a million years l would never own a Toyota not even if it was the last car maker left on earth l would rather walk than drive their boring bland dull shit.

[jasonj80]

Well, something can be done though. If a movie being released about Toyota's ethics, Toyota's PR department would already be on this .... as I've said before, Ford's PR team is weak.

 

 

 

It wouldn't be an ad campaign. That would be weird. But so is Ford's statement of "No comment" when asked about this.

 

It would be a PR statement. Something to reverse the spin that a lot of people are trying to put on this story. Toyota is great at this. Ford is not. That's my point.

 

 

Ford PR has -- http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=29145

 

Also Toyota GM and Honda were also sued over this, only Ford and Chrysler had to pay Chrysler paid more than Ford. -- http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/02/25/005398.html

Edited October 3, 2008 by jasonj80

[V8-X]

Not good in my opinion. I think too many people will jump to conclusions that simply aren't true. Do you think the Gen. X demographic will truly understand what was going on during the time this occurred or will they assume Ford was simply the only "Bad Guy"?

 

I'm sure you could make a movie similar to this for every make out there at some point in the companies life. I'd think a movie dealing with more current events would shed light on Ford of today more than something that happened decades ago. Say for example, the CC switch that eventually led to recalls, or maybe the Firestone debacle.

 

But then you'd have Toyota and their engine sludge, or Toyota and their sexual harrassment lawsuit against a top US exec., or maybe the lawsuit regarding the Toyota powertrain patent in the Lexus RX400h & Prius? Maybe the lawsuit that alledges GM & Toyota overlooked defects at one of their facilities (defects that were intentionally passed over included broken seatbelts, faulty headlights, inadequate braking, mirrors falling off, engine oil leaks and steering alignment problems - all in an effort to decrease the reported number of defects)?

 

Personally, I think there is an agenda behind the making of the movie. Since I haven't seen the movie or even a commercial for it, I'll wait to make any final judgement until I've had more face time with it.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Not good in my opinion. I think too many people will jump to conclusions that simply aren't true. Do you think the Gen. X demographic will truly understand what was going on during the time this occurred or will they assume Ford was simply the only "Bad Guy"?

 

I'm sure you could make a movie similar to this for every make out there at some point in the companies life. I'd think a movie dealing with more current events would shed light on Ford of today more than something that happened decades ago. Say for example, the CC switch that eventually led to recalls, or maybe the Firestone debacle.

 

But then you'd have Toyota and their engine sludge, or Toyota and their sexual harrassment lawsuit against a top US exec., or maybe the lawsuit regarding the Toyota powertrain patent in the Lexus RX400h & Prius? Maybe the lawsuit that alledges GM & Toyota overlooked defects at one of their facilities (defects that were intentionally passed over included broken seatbelts, faulty headlights, inadequate braking, mirrors falling off, engine oil leaks and steering alignment problems - all in an effort to decrease the reported number of defects)?

 

Personally, I think there is an agenda behind the making of the movie. Since I haven't seen the movie or even a commercial for it, I'll wait to make any final judgement until I've had more face time with it.

 

Gotta agree with you, you could drag up make the same sort of film 1,000 time using just about any car maker its a shame they picked on Ford for this story.

 

Gotta say l am a baby boomer l loved all the Ford cars of the time, your right generaration X won't give a shit or even bother to go see such a boring movie it will be a big flop. It will great to see the cock-ups in the movie like when the invention is to be demonstrated to Ford, Kearns gets under the dash then shows a modern (blade type) fuse and says "It's just a fuse" - but the modern fuses were not in use in the 1960s.

 

How can Ford get bad PR from something that happened such a long time ago and who gives a shit, Hitler helped design the bug but is has not stopped folk buying them VW are No1 in Europe. The film will be a big flop all folk in general will not be the slightest bit interested in such a boring subject. But l would like to see it just for the Classic Ford cars not for the crap storyline.

 

If it ever does come to the UK l will be one of the six people that watch it here, the other 5 will be cinema projectionist and the boring storyline subject will send them to sleep before they pulled the plug on the turkey..

Edited October 3, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[Ford Jellymoulds]

One person who saw it said it wasn't a hatchet job on Ford. I haven't sen it yet. But a lot of people know Henry Ford's Nazi connection in WWII and realize that was a different time and place. I would imagine the same here. And they don't hold the Japanese or German auto industrialists to their past. The 60s and 70s were very competitive for the Big Three. Industrial espionage was rampant.

 

I would like to see Michael Moore do a piece on Toyota's work ethic/subjugation.

Like it or not, the Prius does have the best gas mileage in this country (I wish it was an American car), and Toyota and Honda's corporate MPG is much higher. What would you expect to be the "Green" darling.....a Hummer?

 

Launching an ad campaign against the movie would be touchy. It would look like they are still up to the same old stuff.

 

May be they should do remake of the Bridge over the River Kwai with Tunda trucks taking away the the 93,000 folk that lost their lifes building the bridge, nobody seems to notices the inaccuracy in movies these days if it had a Tundra with T O Y O T A on the tailgate carrying the poor tortured souls away.

 

Gotta say l would like to see a Gulf war movie with a Tundra Iraq gunship with its bouncing bed, tailgate falling off, camshafts flying out the engine bay covered in sludge if they ever did the movie it would be filed under comedy based on the truck.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds

[96 Pony]

You guys need to pull your undies out of your cracks. Nothing is going to happen. This is merely a historical film along the same lines as Tucker. It's not anything earth shattering, unlike if someone did a film about the Pinto matter. THAT would be a film that would probably cause problems for Ford.

 

Tucker referred over and over to the efforts of The Big Three and the Detroit lawmakers trying to kill the car. Nothing happened after the movie came out. Car sales didn't take a sudden nose dive.

 

Roger And Me also didn't cause any sudden downward loss for GM, although unfortunatly it did make Michael Moore think he is relevant. :rolleyes:

 

Chrysler and GM aren't mentioned because their lawsuits came after Ford's Intermittent Windshield Wiper case was settled. The Ford case set the prescedence.

 

As I said in an earlier post this case, like the Polaroid v. Kodak case regarding instant pictures, is a required read for anyone that works in the patent field. I recall when I was in school having to study this case because of Kearn's inability to get enchanced damages and corporations abilities to prolong a case hoping that independant inventors give up and settle.

 

The movie will probably not be a flop but I doubt that it will finish at the top. People will see it because Greg Kenear, Lauren Graham and Alan Alda are in it, as well to see the cool cars and a historical piece. That and it has brought about interest recently because a lot of people didn't realize there was a time before intermittent wipers where there were only two speeds! :o Period.

 

The movie I would like to see made is GM's conspiracy to destroy all the streetcar lines across the US and replace them with buses in the 50's.

Edited October 3, 2008 by 96 Pony

[jasonj80]

May be they should do remake of the Bridge over the River Kwai with Tunda trucks taking away the the 93,000 folk that lost their lifes building the bridge, nobody seems to notices the inaccuracy in movies these days if it had a Tundra with T O Y O T A on the tailgate carrying the poor tortured souls away.

 

Nissan that used the song in their advertising, and no one said anything.

 

The movie I would like to see made is GM's conspiracy to destroy all the streetcar lines across the US and replace them with buses in the 50's.

 

There was just a show on Discovery about that -- well GM, Texaco and Firestone.

Edited October 3, 2008 by jasonj80

[MarkFive]

This film is pretty mild compared to what might have been....."Pinto: The Apocalypse!"

Edited October 4, 2008 by MarkFive

[V8 Ford]

One person who saw it said it wasn't a hatchet job on Ford. I haven't sen it yet. But a lot of people know Henry Ford's Nazi connection in WWII and realize that was a different time and place.

I know Henry Ford was very anti semetic, but if he had any conections with the Nazis, especially during WWII, that's news to me. We're talking about the same guy who built tanks for the army and reveloutionized aircraft production with the B-24.

[Edstock]

I know Henry Ford was very anti semetic, but if he had any conections with the Nazis, especially during WWII, that's news to me. We're talking about the same guy who built tanks for the army and reveloutionized aircraft production with the B-24.

AFAIK, HF had no active Nazi links, while it has been noted that the Nazis did try to flatter him with awards.

 

Though unusual things can happen. My father worked for Ford of Canada, setting up a powertrain re-building plant at Tal el-Kabir to re-build all the sand-damaged engines in the 8th army. Just before Alamein, he arranged for a Mercedes 540 crankshaft and bearings to arrive through the diplomatic bag from neutral Turkey, from the German embassy to the British embassy in Ankara, for the Mercedes of the wife of the British Ambassador in Cairo. Everybody pretended it never happened.

 

For active links to Nazis in WW2 though, that's an IBM specialty.

[TomServo92]

This film is pretty mild compared to what might have been....."Pinto: The Apocalypse!"

 

Everyone brings up the Pinto debacle but it was nothing compared to the GM pickup saddle tank defect:

 

The side saddle fuel tank design installed in over 10 million trucks

- all 1973-87 General Motors full-size pickups and cab-chassis trucks

(pickups without beds) and some 1988-91 dual cab or RV chassis - is the

worst auto crash fire defect in the history of the U.S. Department of

Transportation. Based on data from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System

(formerly known as the Fatal Accident Reporting System), over 1,800 people

were killed in fire crashes involving these trucks from 1973 through 2000.

This is more than twenty times as many fatalities

as in the infamous Ford Pinto.

 

I just love this part:

 

At the heart of GM's resistance to improving the safety of its fuel systems

was a cost benefit analysis done by Edward Ivey which concluded that it

was not cost effective for GM to spend more than $2.20 per vehicle to

prevent a fire death.

 

Edited October 4, 2008 by TomServo92

[MarkFive]

Everyone brings up the Pinto debacle but it was nothing compared to the GM pickup saddle tank defect:

 

I wonder why people remember the Pinto issue more than the GM Truck issue?

Was it because there was an internal memo discovered regarding the Pinto gas tank?

[mackinaw]

AFAIK, HF had no active Nazi links, while it has been noted that the Nazis did try to flatter him with awards.

 

Hitler admired Henry Ford and was a fan of the Model T. Some have speculated that the Motel T was the inspiration for the Volkswagon (the people's car).

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Hitler admired Henry Ford and was a fan of the Model T. Some have speculated that the Motel T was the inspiration for the Volkswagon (the people's car).

 

Hitler only admired Henry Ford because he did not like folk with big noses.

[TomServo92]

I wonder why people remember the Pinto issue more than the GM Truck issue?

Was it because there was an internal memo discovered regarding the Pinto gas tank?

 

GM knew about the defect long before it came to public light:

 

The problems with the tanks soon became apparent to GM. Within the first

year of introduction, GM conducted a special accident study of 1973 compared

to pre-1973 pickups which showed "the 1973 trucks had more fuel leaks

from the fuel tank than did the pre-1973 pick-ups."

 

And there's this little gem:

 

After July 1993, NHTSA continued to gather data with the biggest single

revelation being that GM had withheld hundreds of accident reports on

C/K gas tank fires until forced to finally disclose them in February 1994.

 

They did a full blown study about the defect and covered it up. Yet, everyone remembers the Pinto....

Edited October 4, 2008 by TomServo92

[MarkFive]

They did a full blown study about the defect and covered it up. Yet, everyone remembers the Pinto....

 

I don't think the Dateline NBC fudged test helped matters. It deflected the issue from GM and focused it on Dateline trying to force the issue.

[TomServo92]

I don't think the Dateline NBC fudged test helped matters. It deflected the issue from GM and focused it on Dateline trying to force the issue.

 

Good point.

[the_spaniard]

You guys need to pull your undies out of your cracks. Nothing is going to happen. This is merely a historical film along the same lines as Tucker. It's not anything earth shattering, unlike if someone did a film about the Pinto matter. THAT would be a film that would probably cause problems for Ford.

 

Tucker referred over and over to the efforts of The Big Three and the Detroit lawmakers trying to kill the car. Nothing happened after the movie came out. Car sales didn't take a sudden nose dive.

 

Roger And Me also didn't cause any sudden downward loss for GM, although unfortunatly it did make Michael Moore think he is relevant. :rolleyes:

 

Chrysler and GM aren't mentioned because their lawsuits came after Ford's Intermittent Windshield Wiper case was settled. The Ford case set the prescedence.

 

As I said in an earlier post this case, like the Polaroid v. Kodak case regarding instant pictures, is a required read for anyone that works in the patent field. I recall when I was in school having to study this case because of Kearn's inability to get enchanced damages and corporations abilities to prolong a case hoping that independant inventors give up and settle.

 

The movie will probably not be a flop but I doubt that it will finish at the top. People will see it because Greg Kenear, Lauren Graham and Alan Alda are in it, as well to see the cool cars and a historical piece. That and it has brought about interest recently because a lot of people didn't realize there was a time before intermittent wipers where there were only two speeds! :o Period.

 

The movie I would like to see made is GM's conspiracy to destroy all the streetcar lines across the US and replace them with buses in the 50's.

 

Seconded, some of you guys need to reset your paranoia button that the whole world is out to get the U.S. The timing is bad, and can't help Ford, but the damage would most likely be minimal. Honestly, if a hostile country wants to bring us down economically the best way is to leave us alone. We can't even get a bill passed that is theoretically necessary to save our economy without buying the votes with more money. We are obviously doing a great job. We don't need help

 

It will be cool to see all of the old cars in that movie. Kenear makes a pretty good "every man" kind of character, so it may be entertaining.

[96 Pony]

Everyone brings up the Pinto debacle but it was nothing compared to the GM pickup saddle tank defect:

 

Because the Pinto case came first and for the first time, it came to light that automakers did put a value on human life.

[TomServo92]

Because the Pinto case came first and for the first time, it came to light that automakers did put a value on human life.

 

But still, 20 times the number of Pinto related deaths and people don't remember?

[96 Pony]

But still, 20 times the number of Pinto related deaths and people don't remember?

 

Truthfully, I myself did not remember it until you posted it. Probably because by the time the saddle tank issue came about, we were so desensitized with all the recalls and all the lawsuits that were happening all the time that it was just another day when it came to the Big Three. I don't know how old you are but at the time, it was literally watching the Big Three, several times a month, go down the toilet on t.v.

Edited October 4, 2008 by 96 Pony