EricC5Vett Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Just picked mine up last week, really love it so far just have to get used to the fact that it's a noisy little engine, noisiest I've ever had, but it runs sweet and the transmission is great, smooth & seamless. Anyway, I decided to check the tire pressure in all 4 tires since I just got a new digital guage. Was really surprised to find that all 4 were inflated to exactly 37psi. Doesn't that seem too high? I normally keep all my cars tires at right around 30. Now I'm going to check and see what they're supposed to be at. You might want to check yours. Overinflated tires will result in premature treadwear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusMariner Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Just picked mine up last week, really love it so far just have to get used to the fact that it's a noisy little engine, noisiest I've ever had, but it runs sweet and the transmission is great, smooth & seamless. Anyway, I decided to check the tire pressure in all 4 tires since I just got a new digital guage. Was really surprised to find that all 4 were inflated to exactly 37psi. Doesn't that seem too high? I normally keep all my cars tires at right around 30. Now I'm going to check and see what they're supposed to be at. You might want to check yours. Overinflated tires will result in premature treadwear... I think modern tires run at a higher psi, especially those designed for fuel efficiency. Thirty-seven psi does not seem high to me (but I don't know much about tires). What is the brand, model and tire size? The tire sidewall should list the maximum pressure. You can also go to the manufacture's web site or www.tirerack.com for the manufacturer's specs. The specs will list maximum tire pressure. Let us know what you find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfisher Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I think modern tires run at a higher psi, especially those designed for fuel efficiency. Thirty-seven psi does not seem high to me (but I don't know much about tires). What is the brand, model and tire size? The tire sidewall should list the maximum pressure. You can also go to the manufacture's web site or www.tirerack.com for the manufacturer's specs. The specs will list maximum tire pressure. Let us know what you find out. They are max 44 psi cold tires, follow the sticker on the drivers door jam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Just picked mine up last week, really love it so far just have to get used to the fact that it's a noisy little engine, noisiest I've ever had, but it runs sweet and the transmission is great, smooth & seamless. Anyway, I decided to check the tire pressure in all 4 tires since I just got a new digital guage. Was really surprised to find that all 4 were inflated to exactly 37psi. Doesn't that seem too high? I normally keep all my cars tires at right around 30. Now I'm going to check and see what they're supposed to be at. You might want to check yours. Overinflated tires will result in premature treadwear... 30 is probably too low. The door jamb lists the recommended pressure for your specific vehicle and tire combination - has nothing to do with the max pressure on the tire - you should never get close to that. You can normally safely run a few psi over recommended with no harm, so 37 is probably ok but will ride rougher. It should, however, yield slightly better Fuel Economy. What you're seeing is that the tire pressures are over-inflated so the tires don't flat spot during shipment. The dealer is supposed to deflate them to normal but probably failed to do so. This can also be a problem for test drives - always check the tire pressure before test driving if you're worried about ride quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allornothing Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Congrat's on the new FEH, I hope you have great luck with it. I thought the new Michelins on these units were supposed to be inflated to 41pounds. I know they are inflated higher because they're high rolling tires supposedly. Michelin made these specifically for ford. I haven't had time to check the website but I do remember the air pressure being substantially higher than normal tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haydn12 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 The door label lists the tire pressure as 35 psi. That is the cold pressure. It could be up to 39 psi when the tires are hot. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 My experience with tire pressure with steel belted tires is they wear best with high pressure. I don't recommend exceeding the maximum sidewall pressure, but I do because of wear, handling and gas mileage. The recommended tire pressure for the '09 Escape Michelins from Ford is 35psi. The maximum stated Michelin sidewall pressure is 44psi. Based on my experience with handling, wear and mileage with the Ego-Plus Continental tires, I keep 50psi in my new Escape Michelin Latitude Tour tires. I suggest at least the Max sidewall pressure of 44psi and anything less will increase wear, lower handling and gas mileage. The ride in the '09 Escape is still great with the higher tire pressure. Big Oil will sale more gas and Ford will sale more tires if you keep their recommended 35psi in those tires. I have nothing to to gain but you have something to lose if I'm right. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Hi all. :D With all due respect to GaryG and others who feel differently, it is extremely dangerous to exceed the "Maximum Pressure" molded into the sidewall of the tire. If the "Maximum Pressure" is rated at 44psi, you should not exceed that, under any circumstances. You should not even come within a few psi of it. As akirby and some others have mentioned in this thread, you use the "Recommended Pressure" that is listed on the drivers door jamb sticker as a minimum pressure guide, not the "Maximum Pressure" that is molded into the side of the tire. Over-inflating will simply cause the tire to ride on the middle of the tread. All this will do is increase tire wear in the middle tread portion, as the middle of the tire will bulge like an over-inflated balloon. This will cause a loss of handling due to the over-inflation and loss of tread/road contact, harsh ride, added suspension component wear due to the harsh ride, etc etc. Yes, if you over-inflate, you will see a small increase in fuel mileage. But that one pro is certainly greatly outweighed by all of the cons. You will find your best mix of ride, handling, mpg and tire wear will normally come in the range of 2-3 psi over the Auto Manufacturers recommended tire pressure (the one on the drivers side door jamb). So if the door jamb sticker recommends 35 psi, raising it to 37-38 psi will give a nice compromise. If anyone doubts or would like to research this information, all they need do is check any tire manufacturers website, tire retailer website, auto manufacturers website, automotive magazine website, etc etc etc. There is no great tire under-inflation conspiracy created by the oil companies/tire manufacturers/auto manufacturers and so on. Again, it is dangerous to inflate your tires above the cold inflation "Maximum Recommended Pressure" that is molded into your tires sidewalls. You certainly do have something to lose if you do not follow the experts recommendation. You can lose your life due to a catastrophic tire failure at speed. And that is when it will happen in an overinflated tire, when the tire heats up at higher speeds. Please, do not just take any strangers opinion (including mine) from the Internet for something this important. This could affect the health/life of you or your loved ones. Check any of the expert sources I cite above. Simply do the research the opinion of the experts, and you will see what is the correct course of action. While this is my opinion, it is not just my opinion. It is also the opinion of every respected tire and automotive expert in the world. Good luck. :beerchug: Edited October 23, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twolostminds Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Throwing in my $0.02.... Door 35 psi / Tire 44 psi Opinion: 35 psi will give you the best ride comfort 44 psi will give you the least tire wear and maximize longevity Split it down the middle ( a - b ) /2 = c 44 - 35 = 9 9/2 = 4.5 35+4.5=39.5 i have absolutely nothing factual to base this formula on other than my Grandfather who was a cross country truck driver for 40 years swore by this and my father used this math to when filling his car tires. Edited October 23, 2008 by twolostminds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I base my opinion from results and experience but there are many articles found on the internet: Myths about pressure "Let^�s put to rest some common misconceptions. The tires will not balloon out creating a peak in the center portion of the tread when tire pressure is above 35 psi. There is a steel belt that prevents this from happening. Also, you are not overstressing the tire with higher pressure, and the tire will not be forced off the rim with higher pressure. The picture above is Bobby Ore of Bobby Ore Motorsports driving a Ford Ranger on two wheels. The tires on the left side have 100 psi in them, and they happen to be tires and rims from a 1999 Crown Victoria! This is a dramatic example of how pressure holds the tire in shape, and how much stress a tire can handle." http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Al...5/msg02897.html Take a minute and read the rest of the article if you really want to understand about tire pressure. In my younger days I raced my '67 GT 500 seriously and handling, traction and tire wear was a big concern of mine. Safety is the biggest concern of mine and being able to control any vehicle in an emergency to prevent rollover and stopping is at the top of my list. I experienced a situation in my '05 FEH where I had to take a hard turn at a fast speed and I'm sure my FEH would have rolled over if I had 35-40 psi in the tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Hi GaryG. :D Again, with all due respect, we will have to agree to disagree. I am not attempting to debate this subject with anyone. All of the information is out there for anyone to research and read. I will take my expert advice from the tire manufacturers, the auto manufacturers, acknowledged safety experts, the expert automotive journalists etc etc.. Contrary to how you stated you feel (and you have every right to feel how you like), I do not believe that all of the tire manufacturers, auto manufacturers, safety experts, automotive journalists and oil companies are in on a conspiracy to convince us to underinflate our tires, enabling them to sell us more tires and oil while putting our safety and lives at risk (Wheew, long sentence! ). I trust the experts sources I have just mentioned. Therefore, I will generally not take expert automotive advice from a Internet newsgroup website (derkeiler.com) quoting an article sent to them by an unknown police officer ("Sgt. Dave Storton, EVOC contributor") from the "San Jose Police Academy". I took a minute to carefully read the article you provided the link to. Having done that, I would ask you to now go back and carefully re-read that article. Even the article you link to clearly states that the Police Department they are mentioning do not use high tire pressures on their actual patrol cars, only on the training fleet vehicles. So that is for vehicles that they do not use on the public roads. That is certainly a revealing bit of information. On their actual patrol cars, they will only go to the maximum pressure on the sidewall, not exceed it. And they are careful to add the caveat that it is for patrol cars that are "fully loaded with communications equipment, a cage, and your gear." We are not police officers in fully loaded police interceptors. Our driving needs are completely different, and the tire pressures used should reflect that fact. Your link also states several points that make it clear that the driver of a civilian vehicle should not follow the information contained in it. The article even states that many (if they say many, I will assume it really is most) agencies use the manufacturer recommended pressure, not the maximum. Of course they then try to null that point by guessing those other agencies use the Manufacturers recommendation simply because "this is what is listed in the owner's manual and on the door placard." In other words, those agencies are just too dumb to see the light. Nice of them to hypothesize why people do things differently from them, with no evidence. Anyone who reads the article with an unbiased eye will see that they make it clear they do not drive on the roads with their tires overinflated. In the end, there is no sense in debating this back and forth. Anyone who wishes, can go to any of the tire manufacturer websites. Here are just a few: LINK: Michelin Tires LINK: Goodyear Tires LINK: BF Goodrich Tires LINK: Pirelli Tires There we can all read their FAQ's and informational literature for a plethora of information, all of which will clearly state that a driver should follow the manufacturers recommendation, and never approach in any type of normal circumstances (and certainly not exceed) the "Maximum Pressure' which is molded on the tire sidewall. The same information will be found in the Owners Manual that we all carry in our vehicles. To balance that information, they can read your newsgroup link containing information from the source you provided. Again, I know I will not change your mind, and you certainly will not change mine. Everyone now has links providing information championing both sides of the debate. They can now research the information, so we should leave it at that. And just as an FYI. I also have many years of driving and racing experience myself. And referencing the years you mention, possibly more than you. But which one of us has been on this earth and racing cars longer is neither here nor there. Neither of us are acknowledged tire safety experts. But the advice of the experts is easy to research. Regarding your reference to the incident with your 2005 FEH, I am glad you were not injured. At best however, your guess at what might have happened if your tires were not inflated to 50psi is just that, a guess. To balance that guess, I can cite numerous incidents of tire failure due to overinflated tires. I can also cite numerous (and probably more) incidents of tire failure due to underinflated tires. The point is, we should all regularly check our tires and keep them properly inflated. Our stories of personal driving experience are just that, "stories". They do not change the facts presented by the experts. You and I simply prefer to listen to different experts. We both have that right. For anyone who is interested, as stated in my previous reply I personally recommend going 2-3 psi over the Auto Manufacturers recommendation (door jamb sticker). For anyone who cares to look, all of the reasons are in that post, so I will not bother to retype them. Now whoever reads this thread can take the information provided and make an informed decision. You and me debating it any further will not change what others are going to do. No hard feelings, and good luck. :beerchug: Edited October 23, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I have no problem with the disagreement but in my first post I stated I wouldn't recommend anyone exceeding 44psi or the Max sidewall pressure. I simply stated I put 50psi in my tires and I have seen a big decrease in wear, better handling and better mileage. When people state that the center of the tire wears, the tires get hotter or have less traction at or above 44psi, this is just not true with a steel belted tire. Six psi over the maximum sidewall is enough for me, but I know many people that more than double the 6psi and have reported even better wear, better handling and better MPG. None have reported problems with over inflation and they have been doing it for years longer than me. The idea to try the added pressure was scary to me at first, but now that I see all the improvements especially the wear reduction I have no more concerns. We get a lot of hard rain in South Florida and I put my tires through many hard corners on wet streets and can't believe how good of traction I get. Now that I've had a few years experience with higher tire pressure, I feel much safer than with the lower pressures I've ran it the past. You sound like you would never even try a higher pressure so you may never see the benefits of it. Ford tilts the front tires outward to prevent rollover and this causes the inside edge of the tread to wear much faster. After I increase the tire pressure this slowed down that problem. I have over 50,000 miles on my '05 FEH and the rear tires still have about 40% wear left. BTW, your donut spare has 60psi in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I have no problem with the disagreement but in my first post I stated I wouldn't recommend anyone exceeding 44psi or the Max sidewall pressure. I simply stated I put 50psi in my tires and I have seen a big decrease in wear, better handling and better mileage. When people state that the center of the tire wears, the tires get hotter or have less traction at or above 44psi, this is just not true with a steel belted tire. Six psi over the maximum sidewall is enough for me, but I know many people that more than double the 6psi and have reported even better wear, better handling and better MPG. None have reported problems with over inflation and they have been doing it for years longer than me. The idea to try the added pressure was scary to me at first, but now that I see all the improvements especially the wear reduction I have no more concerns. We get a lot of hard rain in South Florida and I put my tires through many hard corners on wet streets and can't believe how good of traction I get. Now that I've had a few years experience with higher tire pressure, I feel much safer than with the lower pressures I've ran it the past. You sound like you would never even try a higher pressure so you may never see the benefits of it. Ford tilts the front tires outward to prevent rollover and this causes the inside edge of the tread to wear much faster. After I increase the tire pressure this slowed down that problem. I have over 50,000 miles on my '05 FEH and the rear tires still have about 40% wear left. BTW, your donut spare has 60psi in it! Please explain why the tire mfrs recommend (e.g.) 44 PSI if 50 PSI is better all the way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) I have no problem with the disagreement but in my first post I stated I wouldn't recommend anyone exceeding 44psi or the Max sidewall pressure. I simply stated I put 50psi in my tires and I have seen a big decrease in wear, better handling and better mileage. When people state that the center of the tire wears, the tires get hotter or have less traction at or above 44psi, this is just not true with a steel belted tire. Six psi over the maximum sidewall is enough for me, but I know many people that more than double the 6psi and have reported even better wear, better handling and better MPG. None have reported problems with over inflation and they have been doing it for years longer than me. The idea to try the added pressure was scary to me at first, but now that I see all the improvements especially the wear reduction I have no more concerns. We get a lot of hard rain in South Florida and I put my tires through many hard corners on wet streets and can't believe how good of traction I get. Now that I've had a few years experience with higher tire pressure, I feel much safer than with the lower pressures I've ran it the past. You sound like you would never even try a higher pressure so you may never see the benefits of it. Ford tilts the front tires outward to prevent rollover and this causes the inside edge of the tread to wear much faster. After I increase the tire pressure this slowed down that problem. I have over 50,000 miles on my '05 FEH and the rear tires still have about 40% wear left. BTW, your donut spare has 60psi in it! Hi GaryG. :D Just a few points, then hopefully we can just leave it to others to read the links we provided and decide for themselves. 1 - Contrary to your information, the links I provided (to the Tire Manufacturers that actually design and build the tires) clearly state that overinflation (near 44psi or above) will not only cause the center of the tread to wear faster, it will lead to increased chances of hydroplaning, and increased chances of catastrophic tire failure. You choose to believe your source, I believe my sources. And again, my sources are the actual Tire Manufacturers. Hell, they build the tires, so I will take their word before all others. 2 - I have experimented with tire pressures many times over the years, so the "You sound like you would never even try a higher pressure..." tactic is not a valid one. It is as relevant as if I stated "You seem like you would never read all of the information I provided to see that you may be wrong..." As I have stated earlier, through many years of driving and research, I find that 2-3 psi (maybe 4 on the top end) over the Auto Manufacturers Recommended Tire Pressure gives my cars the best mix of handling, tire wear, MPG's and ride comfort. This is not Rocket Science. No tire manufacturer, automobile manufacturer, automotive safety expert, or respected automotive journalist recommends inflating automobile tires to the "Maximum Pressure" (or above) molded into the sidewall of the tires. Quite to the contrary, they all warn against it. 3 - Concerning your statement that "BTW, your donut spare has 60psi in it!". Not to be a wiseguy, and just stated in a joking manner: So what? The donut spare is a tire of a completely different construction, on a completely different wheel, that is specifically designed to save space in the trunk, not be regularly driven on a car in day to day use. According to the warnings on the sidewall of most "donut spares", it is specifically designed to be driven no faster than 50 mph and no further than 50 miles. It is only meant to get you to a place that you can be safe and replace it with a proper tire, on a proper wheel, which is inflated properly. I don't think you realized that trying to use the fact that the "donut spare" is inflated to 60 psi does not help your case, it hurts it. It is a short term, emergency use only device. On a side note, I have never had a tire wear prematurely on the inside edge of the tread. Just my personal experience. Again, I have no desire to keep a Internet debate going over a subject that has so much information available for everyone to research and make up their own minds. We are both mature individuals who feel that the advice we have given is correct, and we have provided several links for anyone interested to research the facts. I will not accept the advice of "Sgt. David Storton, EVOC contributor" or your friends whom I do not know. You will not accept the advice of every tire manufacturer, automobile manufacturer, automotive safety expert and respected automotive journalist. Heck, call The Tire Rack, Discount Tire, or any other major tire retailer and ask them too. Or just go to their websites and read their FAQ's concerning proper tire inflation. I feel extremely comfortable with the sources I am using. I am sure that you probably have better things to do with your time, and I know that I certainly do. We are not going to sway each others opinion, so why don't we move on to helping others in some other area. We should now just leave it to others to make up their own minds with the information and links we have provided. Thanks for keeping it polite, and good luck Gary. :beerchug: Edited October 23, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Please explain why the tire mfrs recommend (e.g.) 44 PSI if 50 PSI is better all the way around. My thoughts on why is a combination of weight and keeping the tire from being flat. An example would be like a truck with the tires at 35psi and you put a thousand pound load in the bed. Now the tires are compressed to the point they look half flat and the contact patch is so large it causes the tire to over heat when driven. The tire is designed to take the load but at a much higher pressure than 35psi. So the manufacture list the maximum tire pressure that tire should be inflated at the maximum load it is designed for. In my case, the tire is carrying a much lighter load than designed for and I choose to increase the pressure above the Maximum load with the 44psi pressure limit. What I discovered was a harder ride in my '05 FEH, but the '09 with the softer ride is much better and I feel much less of road. BBF2530, don't read so much into my statement about the donut being at 60psi. I meant only that the cheap donut holds 60psi. As far as saving space, I'm sure they do in some vehicle trunks, but the FEH/MMH can hold and can be ordered with a full size spare in fleet orders. My bet is that Ford only provides the small donut in the FEH/MMH to save cost. Both my FEH's carry the stock rim and stock tire as a spare now. Don't get me wrong, I could care less if people use my opinion or not, someone tipped me off a few years ago and I'm just passing along my experience with what I found. Someone posted that link about the San Jose Police Department after I seen the result for myself. At 5,000 miles on my '05 FEH I had the tires rotated and balanced and had Goodyear align the front end. After I started seeing the inside of the tire wearing, I brought it back to have the alignment checked. They checked the alignment again but told me all Escapes have that tire problem when set to the correct alignment. I thought they were feeding me a line until I heard many other posters confirm the design issue. Some poster said he had to have his front end modified to solve the wear issue. Others said Ford designed the alignment to prevent less chance of a rollover. At any rate my wear problem was greatly reduced with the higher pressure and the front tires made it 49,000 miles when I changed to the new Michelin Latitudes. Don't know if the later models have been corrected or not. Many people feel the same as you about the manufactures rating and suggestions and I felt the same way until I made the change. I'm not trying to win an argument on who should agree with who. I pass on techniques and knowledge that I personally have benefited from and if someone tries them and they work, Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Hi Gary. :D Now that everyone has the links to research the subject for themselves, I shall move on and we can agree to disagree. Good luck. :beerchug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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