robertlane Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 ARTICLE LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiberiuswise Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I hear where you are coming from with your loyalty to to the Panther and concern about it's demise. I am a veteran of One Country Squire and two Colony Parks and I am only 37. Give the Five Hundred the power and the cosmetic tweaks and I am sure it can succeed. The Chrysler products are a success for these two reasons, style and power. Everything else is a means to the end. Failing to push the limits of technology will only leave the asians to clean our clocks again. As much as nostalgia can be a double edge sword for styling, it is a death sentence when applied to technology. Sure it has a place in a luxury vehicle like Lincoln or Jaguar, but if we want to see a volume large car with a Blue Oval on it, it has to keep up with the times. Tha said, I hope they find it in the product mix to do a RWD large performance sedan. Perhaps with the SVT badge and in limited numbers so the company can make a profit and the car will retain value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynavet Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Ford Motor Company has produced rear wheel drive cars throughout it's entire history. They have done a good job as evidenced by the millions manufactured. The Panther platform has been and is a money maker. Ford needs to continue in this segment and that means having a competitive rear wheel drive platform for the Ford, Mercury and Lincoln brands. Removing itself from the various vehicle segments is not going to improve car sales and profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenJ Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 There were a lot of smaller detail items that I don't agree with in that article. Such as "The D3s are as safe as the Panthers are as bad"? WTF is this guy smoking? The Grand Marquis has had five start front crash test rating for over fifteen years and four star side impact without side airbags! That's better than any camry or accord period! The Whole gas tank issues is SOOO overblown! With that being said, about how the car travels over bumps, well it is live axle so yeah. Handling is great though. It has body roll sure, but it is reasonable body roll. It doesn't fall over itself in turns. For now, I think Ford should just update the car on the existing platform like what they did for SN95 then come out with a replacement for 2011. Probably something similar to the old car, with less overhang. Well, here is hoping to 08' for an updated Panther :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) There were a lot of smaller detail items that I don't agree with in that article. Such as "The D3s are as safe as the Panthers are as bad"? WTF is this guy smoking? The Grand Marquis has had five start front crash test rating for over fifteen years and four star side impact without side airbags! That's better than any camry or accord period! The Whole gas tank issues is SOOO overblown! It might be an overblown issue - but he is right. The Panther has been the focus of how many CNN and MSNBC T.V. reports? How many times has it appeared in the newspapers? How many cops, politicans (even one senator) have wrote Ford about the Panter's safety? How many lawsuits are pending against Ford? Heck, there is even a safety shield patch kit for the car. Compare that to the Five Hundred. Edited April 10, 2006 by robertlane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenJ Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) It might be an overblown issue - but he is right. The Panther has been the focus of how many CNN and MSNBC T.V. reports? How many times has it appeared in the newspapers? How many cops, politicans (even one senator) have wrote Ford about the Panter's safety? How many lawsuits are pending against Ford? Heck, there is even a safety shield patch kit for the car. Compare that to the Five Hundred. The only reason Ford is taking a hit for this is because the media knows that Ford controls the vast majority of the police car market. So any little nitch, that comes along the way that may hurt their domanince, the media is going to report it. Out of all honsety, out of all the times the car has gotten hit from behind and it requires an 80mph + impact (while the cv is driving very slowly or stopped) have gone up in flames? Only about fifteen people in the sixteen years the car has been around, not counting the box bodies and previous, have died because of it. Fact is, you are safer by far in a Vic in a rear end collision then you are in your average crackerbox midsize car. You'd be a fool to think otherwise. I got an idea, let's see what happens when you get hit from behind in your average midsize at 80mph and see what the chances of the people inside making it out are. At least in a Vic, because it has a full sized steel frame that can absorb a great amount of the impact, you have a remote chance of surving. Edited April 10, 2006 by StevenJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FStephenMasek Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) What the Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, and Town Car need are all new interiors, the 3-valve 4.6 V8, and an independent rear suspension. The rear suspension from the pre-1998 Thunderbird, Cougar, and Mark VIII would probably be the best one to use, but they might also be able to use many parts from the suspensions in the current Explorer or the 2007 Expedition & Navigator. Ford already sells an excellent alternative to the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis - the Explorer and Mountaineer. The 2006 revision made them quiet and smooth like cars, they are rear wheel drive or rear-biased 4/all wheel drive, they have a large "trunk," and they offer the option of a third row of seats. With the new six speed automatic, their mileage is still not as good as that of the Panther cars, probably due to additional weight and the numerically higher (3.55 for the Explorer V8 vs 2.73 for the Crown Victoria V8) final drive ratio, but a difference of even 5 MPG, even with $3.00 gasoline, translates to a small difference in annual cost. I am somewhat tempted to go to a junkyard and buy a wrecked Panther car and parts from a wrecked T-Bird and have a shop weld-up a modified frame just to show how easy it would be. Edited April 10, 2006 by FStephenMasek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 (edited) Umm, Ford never, ever, said that the D3 cars are 'replacements' for the Panther platform. I see the author drives what looks like a pre 2006 Grand Marq. If all these supposed 'loyal Panther owners' bought brand new ones, then Ford would have a business case. But since most of them buy used cop cars, how can Ford make $$ of of these 'loyal' buyers? And no they do have to make $$, so don't think that they can make some with 400HP for $14,000. Edited April 11, 2006 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Umm, Ford never, ever, said that the D3 cars are 'replacements' for the Panther platform. I see the author drives what looks like a pre 2006 Grand Marq. If all these supposed 'loyal Panther owners' bought brand new ones, then Ford would have a business case. But since most of them buy used cop cars, how can Ford make $$ of of these 'loyal' buyers? And no they do have to make $$, so don't think that they can make some with 400HP for $14,000. If Ford ever updated the things people would buy them new, by using the excuse that sales suck to not redo them, it becomes a self fulfilling path to destruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 ARTICLE LINK :boring: :boring: :boring: Old news my friend. :boring: :boring: :boring: Its all been said. Time for Ford to put up or shut up! ... or seek chapter 11 ... :o whatever turns billy-boys crank :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-point-0L Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 The behind-the-rear-axle gas tank "issues" on the Panther and Mustang cars are so overblown. The Mustang especially really doesn't have anywhere else for a decent sized gas tank to go without intruding on interior space-this becomes instantly obvious if one would look at the underbody of the cars. Ford indeed never said that the D3 cars were a Panther replacement. Two things bother me about the D3 cars, and that's the styling/appearance of the car, and the lack of more powerful engine choices, or even an optional engine at all. FWD cars don't bother me as long as there are RWD cars to supplement Ford's lineup. Also, too many people associate "performance" and "RWD" too closely. Right now, Ford needs to stregthen their regular vehicle lineup, and then start improve upon those vehicles with performance versions (i.e., F-150 Lightning and Boss Mustang with "Hurricane" engine, Fusion SHO with AWD and 3.5L) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 (edited) Again, not everyone is going to be happy. Some just want 300+ hp, and will wait to buy it used. Other will want IRS, adn wait for that. Meanwhile only fleets are buying them. Edited April 12, 2006 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil95GT Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I thought the article was great. :bowdown: I found myself in total agreement with every point the author presented, and I could really relate to his perspective. Very well done! :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford4v429 Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I'd love to see a 'all new' crown vic, but personally what I'd love more would just be a fastback roofline and some corners back on the skin...all new is very costly, and will come with none of the 'time tested durability' of the current 'old' chassis. If they offered a decent looking body on that chassis, I'd be in line for one. stretching current contours slightly for 'new look' aint gonna cut it- if theyd bring back something along the lines of a 70 torino/66xl shape, sales would rebound at relatively minor investment compared to building a new plant for all new chassis. perhaps one 'last gasp' upgrade to the sheetmetal would make it sell for a few years strong enough to fund a complete retooling- but even then I think as long as a market is there they should keep it around. the 'old man car' stigma is whats killing the vic, and doing a 180 from the shape and some youthful advertising would sure help. I cant even think of the last time I saw an ad for a vic. The cops will be buying for a long time, why lose that...the toolings paid for long ago, retool for optional skin and sell a galaxie or XL version built on same line as cookie cutter copcars, and they'd have another mustang. Sporty cars sell easier to anyone, 'old man cars' sell easier to their namesake...I like the reputation of that old chassis, but like most other folks, aint attracted even a little to its looks. Offer two bodies on that chassis, and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96towncarcartier Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 I'm confused.... is this nutcase a lover or a hater of these cars??? AM I the only one who gets a mixed message from this "article"? FACT: No other vehicle IN THE WORLD is tested in 75mph rear impact crash tests. FACT: CV, GM, TC all PASS this 75mph test with flying colors. There IS NO safety issue with these cars. ANd keep in mind, the TC was the FIRST car in HISTORY to get 5 stars in every gov't crash test! These cars are popular because they are tough, built well, last forever, and perform wonderfully. Plenty of room in comfort. The Grand Marquis is the most successful Mercury ever built. The GM and CV date back to 1970. I agree, the interior needs a major update. The CV could benefit from a restyling, since the GM already got several lately. But that does not detract from the value and quality of what these cars offer. And that's why they're still being made! Over 3 MILLION since 1979. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I think Ford is in the process for giving the police car market back to Chrysler. That Charger is going to be THE law enforcement vehicle, and Ford has nothing to compete with it. Yes, they are still selling CVPI's now, but when police spec. Charger production gets under way, that's it. Many in law enforcement are very excited about Chrysler's return, particularly with the new Hemi. This new D3 will probably be a good car, I'll bet more appealing to the public, but I see no law enforcement application in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sa_seahawker Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 I think Ford is in the process for giving the police car market back to Chrysler. That Charger is going to be THE law enforcement vehicle, and Ford has nothing to compete with it. To add insult to injury, Chrysler just introduced their extended wheelbase version of the 300. If they stretched a Charger, that could be the icing on the cake for DCX. Also, Michigan State Hwy Patrol and LAPD just finished their tests and the Hemi Charger kicked the pants off of everything in every catagory...even gas mileage. It seems the days of "insta-flame" brakes are a thing of the past! On a side note the CVPI was more evenly matched with the V6 Charger. Oh, well....so long Panther....it was one helluva ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman100 Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Yep - the Panther was one heck of platform. Ford knew not what they had, and chose to milk it until it died. A 300C still weighs almost as much as a Grand Marquis, so weight is not the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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