Versa-Tech Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 It is religion which subjugates women. Truth. With the exception of Buddhism, it's taught that women are inferior to men in all religions. Before any Christians deny this, I must point out that the very first story in the bible tells of how Adam's wife, out of weakness and stupidity, betrays him. What exactly is the moral of that story? Don't trust women because they are weak and stupid and will eventually betray you?! Sounds Righteous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Truth. With the exception of Buddhism, it's taught that women are inferior to men in all religions. Before any Christians deny this, I must point out that the very first story in the bible tells of how Adam's wife, out of weakness and stupidity, betrays him. What exactly is the moral of that story? Don't trust women because they are weak and stupid and will eventually betray you?! Sounds Righteous! It's been four days. They still don't have an answer to that one. There goes 50% of the congregation. Maybe women should make up their own religion, and make God female. God makes Eve out of the dirt, and Adam eats the apple. For punishment, he gets a tumor on his vagina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenhawkings Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Truth. With the exception of Buddhism, it's taught that women are inferior to men in all religions. Before any Christians deny this, I must point out that the very first story in the bible tells of how Adam's wife, out of weakness and stupidity, betrays him. What exactly is the moral of that story? Don't trust women because they are weak and stupid and will eventually betray you?! Sounds Righteous! what about pagans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 what about pagans? Pagan is a word to describe someone else's religion. I don't believe in any, so to me they are all pagans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Easter is coming up. How many people believe in Jesus coming back to life after he was crucified, and flying away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 It is a sin to teach religion in schools. A child will believe anything that is told to him by an adult. Telling him that something which has never been proven is absolutely true, and if he does not believe it he will be punished, is child abuse. This is just as bad as the Muslims who brainwash kids to be suicide bombers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) I'm with Jesse on this one. http://www.searchingtogether.org/articles/zens/jesse.htm More thinking Americans and their view on religion. http://www.humanismbyjoe.com/vessi_vantura...ic_comments.htm Edited April 21, 2009 by Ralph Greene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Basically, the Christian narrative is the story of humankind as chronicled in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament—the drama of creation, fall and redemption. The orthodox tend to try to live their lives in accordance with the general behavioral principles of the Bible (or at least the principles they find there of which they approve) and anticipate the ultimate judgment of God—a judgment that could well determine whether they spend eternity in heaven or in hell. Evangelical Christians have long believed that the United States should be a nation whose political life is based upon and governed by their interpretation of biblical and theological principles. If the church believes drinking to be a sin, for instance, then the laws of the state should ban the consumption of alcohol. If the church believes the theory of evolution conflicts with a literal reading of the Book of Genesis, then the public schools should tailor their lessons accordingly. If the church believes abortion should be outlawed, then the legislatures and courts of the land should follow suit. Fundamentalism in religion is a danger in most societies because Fundamentalist religions regard their missions with great seriousness and show little tolerance for any other religious belief – even though any religious belief is a “blind faith” – in that not one of them can provide any proof of their claims/beliefs. Many claim that the salvation of the world depends on them, and some will seriously contend that the earth will end without them. And this seriousness spans every religion, be it Muslim, Jewish or Christian. It is this overwhelming seriousness about religion that seems to be one of the hallmarks of fundamentalism. A fundamentalist (again, be they Muslim, Jewish, Pentacostal, J.Witness, or Baptist) is concerned not only with his own conformity to doctrine, but the conformity of the rest of society to it, too. Many fundamentalists will not hesitate to intervene in the political process to ensure that society is forced to conform to the behaviors their world-view requires, if not accept that world-view. Is that not what the Taliban (and other Muslim sects) have promulgated? Isn't that also what the so-called evangelical Protestants and Catholics have attempted to do here in our country? Of course it is. Why does fundamentalism have such a broad appeal? Besides the appeal to vanity (“join us and you can be one of God's chosen”), and its appeal to fear (“you can't be saved without us”), its broad appeal is because it offers an easy way -- a fundamentalist need not think deeply about doctrine or be highly educated in it – don’t think – just accept that this (the Bible, the Sharia, the Tora) is indeed the word of God. But recent polls have echoed other polls in that those that define themselves as Christian are on a decline and fewer people now think of the United States as a "Christian nation" than did so when Geo W was president (62 percent in 2009 versus 69 percent in 2008). Two thirds of the public (68 percent) now say religion is "losing influence" in American society, while just 19 percent claim religion's influence is on the rise. The proportion of Americans who think religion "can answer all or most of today's problems" is now at a historic low of 48 percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Christian fundamentalism was the law in Europe in the past. The horrors of that time make present day Muslim fundamentalist ruled countries look humane by comparison. Religion is fundamentalist. If fundamentalism isn't true, then the religion is not true. You can't change religion to fit your lifestyle. You have to fit your lifestyle to the religion. I don't believe in any religion. I can see through them for what they are. Maybe in the past, religion served a purpose, when people were superstitious. It curbed anarchy. To-day, with our connected information-rich society, there is no room for religion. It just distorts and styfles our perspective. There are also other "movements" afoot that do not call themselves religions, but they are also out to styfle and distort our perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Religion is fundamentalist. If fundamentalism isn't true, then the religion is not true. You can't change religion to fit your lifestyle. You have to fit your lifestyle to the religion. I don't believe in any religion. I can see through them for what they are. So because I may not practice (something you don't believe in), in the way you believe I should be practicing (something you don't believe in), I'm therefore not practicing (something you don't believe in) correctly? Edited April 24, 2009 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 So because I may not practice (something you don't believe in), in the way you believe I should be practicing (something you don't believe in), I'm therefore not practicing (something you don't believe in) correctly? Do whatever you want. It is a free country. I am just showing you some logic. If a religion is true, then it can't change. If it changes, then it is either not true after it changed, or it was not true before it changed. If it is not true in one respect, then it probably is not true in other respects. In order to follow a religion, you have to believe it. If you keep changing it, then you don't believe it. Why not just start from scratch and forget about religion and learn about nature with an unbiased mind. Once you head in the wrong direction, soon you are way off course, and the explanations of how religion contradicts nature become ridiculous. "God planted dinosaur bones to test our faith." Sure he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Do whatever you want. It is a free country. I am just showing you some logic. Thanks, but if life were to be based solely on logic, it would not explain your feelings toward a certain family member. If you were truly logical, you would not waste the resources. But you aren't an automaton, whose every decision is based on logic or mathematical probability. Your ability to go beyond mere logic (I'd call it "heart", or more fundamentally, "soul") came from a spark that you choose to ignore. That is your choice. If a religion is true, then it can't change. If it changes, then it is either not true after it changed, or it was not true before it changed. If it is not true in one respect, then it probably is not true in other respects. In order to follow a religion, you have to believe it. If you keep changing it, then you don't believe it. Why not just start from scratch and forget about religion and learn about nature with an unbiased mind. Once you head in the wrong direction, soon you are way off course, and the explanations of how religion contradicts nature become ridiculous. You are confusing the religion, with the people who (claim to) practice it. And no, they aren't one in the same. One is the written Word (which doesn't change), and the other is ritual or dogma. The problem, as I see it, is the confusion between the literal and the allegorical. "God planted dinosaur bones to test our faith." Sure he did. So, that was in the Old Testament, right? I suppose that would be Genesis 1, but I haven't found that passage yet. I'll work on it. :rolleyes: Edited April 24, 2009 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Thanks, but if life were to be based solely on logic, it would not explain your feelings toward a certain family member. If you were truly logical, you would not waste the resources. But you aren't an automaton, whose every decision is based on logic or mathematical probability. Your ability to go beyond mere logic (I'd call it "heart", or more fundamentally, "soul") came from a spark that you choose to ignore. That is your choice. You are confusing the religion, with the people who (claim to) practice it. And no, they aren't one in the same. One is the written Word (which doesn't change), and the other is ritual or dogma. The problem, as I see it, is the confusion between the literal and the allegorical. So, that was in the Old Testament, right? I suppose that would be Genesis 1, but I haven't found that passage yet. I'll work on it. :rolleyes: The "all-knowing" Bible obviously didn't mention dinosaurs because the authors were unaware of their existence. It threw a monkey wrench into the story of creation which would place the age of the earth at around 5000-6000 years. It left modern day preachers with egg on their faces. They had to come up with something to explain this paradox to their followers. The only thing they could come up with was that God planted these bones to test people's faith. When Galileo pointed out that the earth orbited the sun, they couldn't refute that, so they put him in prison for life so he would not embarass them further by disproving any more Christian doctrine. If you are not hard-wired to a religion from childhood, as I am not, you find amusement in watching all of this scrambling to try and stop a ridiculuous myth from crumbling. Why not just admit that it is all a myth. It is really a rubber crutch. Nobody needs religion any more. Why keep dumbing yourself down to believe a bunch of lies? An open mind is the path to knowledge. Closing ones mind is a terrible waste. If there is a god, and if he cares about people, he wouldn't want that. Religion is more about people controlling other people than people improving their lot. Dictators fashion their power on religion. They get the people to fervently believe one idea, and then they can control them. Compare the glazed looks of the Evangelist congregation as they chant "Praise the Lord", with the throngs that chanted "Heil Hitler". Don't be a mindless sheep. Think for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I can accept that you believe I am a sheep for my Christian beliefs, however you begin to make less sense when you say you have no beliefs. I would say you have many beliefs. You went to bed last night believing you would wake up this morning, otherwise you would have said "goodbye" to your family. You may have got up this morning at the prompting of an alarm clock, because you believed the mechanism would be reliable enough to get you up at the proper time. You believe that if you go out to your car, and everything is properly tuned, and it has fuel in it, it will start, and you'll be able to drive to work. You believe if you (and everyone else) follow the rules of the road, you will arrive safely. You believe if you strike your hammer at the proper location and time, your work will be done properly. But you've forgot a few things along the way...... If you accept Einstein's theories, then you know that matter and energy are related: (e = m * c-squared) Since matter and energy are related (and differ only by a constant; c-squared), it would seem to follow they could be considered two forms of the same entity. What that means is that matter can be converted to energy, and back again. Now the law of conservation of energy is that, "Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed", and a corollary of that would be "Matter can neither be created nor destroyed". Would it be a stretch to say that everything in the universe could be expressed as a quantity of energy? A really big number, but possible nonetheless. Even if you said "Infinity", that's still a number, and it's a positive number. If energy cannot be created, then somewhere far off in the universe, you would have to find a equivalent "negative energy" to offset the positive you've been measuring all along. There are few questions I would have at this point: If there is such a thing as "negative energy", then how is it possible that the universe formed in the first place? Starting from a quantity of zero (no God), something (or someone), had to separate the positive energy (our universe), from the equivalent negative energy. If you accept that positive and negative would be the natural products of beginning from zero, then not only did they have to be separated, they have to be kept separate. What is that mechanism, if not the supernatural? And if you accept that such a supernatural is not only possible, but likely, then you have engaged in what I'd call "faith". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I can accept that you believe I am a sheep for my Christian beliefs, however you begin to make less sense when you say you have no beliefs. I would say you have many beliefs. You went to bed last night believing you would wake up this morning, otherwise you would have said "goodbye" to your family. You may have got up this morning at the prompting of an alarm clock, because you believed the mechanism would be reliable enough to get you up at the proper time. You believe that if you go out to your car, and everything is properly tuned, and it has fuel in it, it will start, and you'll be able to drive to work. You believe if you (and everyone else) follow the rules of the road, you will arrive safely. You believe if you strike your hammer at the proper location and time, your work will be done properly. But you've forgot a few things along the way...... If you accept Einstein's theories, then you know that matter and energy are related: (e = m * c-squared) Since matter and energy are related (and differ only by a constant; c-squared), it would seem to follow they could be considered two forms of the same entity. What that means is that matter can be converted to energy, and back again. Now the law of conservation of energy is that, "Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed", and a corollary of that would be "Matter can neither be created nor destroyed". Would it be a stretch to say that everything in the universe could be expressed as a quantity of energy? A really big number, but possible nonetheless. Even if you said "Infinity", that's still a number, and it's a positive number. If energy cannot be created, then somewhere far off in the universe, you would have to find a equivalent "negative energy" to offset the positive you've been measuring all along. There are few questions I would have at this point: If there is such a thing as "negative energy", then how is it possible that the universe formed in the first place? Starting from a quantity of zero (no God), something (or someone), had to separate the positive energy (our universe), from the equivalent negative energy. If you accept that positive and negative would be the natural products of beginning from zero, then not only did they have to be separated, they have to be kept separate. What is that mechanism, if not the supernatural? And if you accept that such a supernatural is not only possible, but likely, then you have engaged in what I'd call "faith". What does all this have to do with Jesus and Noah's Ark? I don't know how the universe came to be, but I am fascinated by theories which are based on logical thought rather than superstition. I don't believe anything is true. I consider possibilities. There is no actual matter. The universe that we percieve is created by our senses. A snake lives in a different world. He has absolutely no concept of the world in which we live and observe him in. The universe weighs exactly zero. If our brains had the capacity to be conscious of four dimensions, we would be looking at our universe from the big bang to the big crunch simultaneously, like a reel of film. It would be just one of an endless library of films. Maybe our minds are at the centre of the universe. Did something set all of this in motion, or is it spontaneous. It is really irrelevant at this point, as we are virtually nothing in the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) What does all this have to do with Jesus and Noah's Ark? I don't know how the universe came to be, but I am fascinated by theories which are based on logical thought rather than superstition. I don't believe anything is true. I consider possibilities. There is no actual matter. The universe that we percieve is created by our senses. A snake lives in a different world. He has absolutely no concept of the world in which we live and observe him in. The universe weighs exactly zero. If our brains had the capacity to be conscious of four dimensions, we would be looking at our universe from the big bang to the big crunch simultaneously, like a reel of film. It would be just one of an endless library of films. Maybe our minds are at the centre of the universe. Did something set all of this in motion, or is it spontaneous. It is really irrelevant at this point, as we are virtually nothing in the big picture. I'd say "Faith" is the belief in the supernatural (that which cannot be directly proven true or false. It must be accepted.) "Religion" and "Science" are two paths with one goal. The goal is the Truth. Jesus is one man's truth. Whether or not he chooses to believe that the Bible is the only truth, or is the entire truth is his problem. Same for the one who believes that Science provides the only and entire truth. They are both wrong. (NOTE: I'm not saying that you cannot/should not believe what the Bible says, or what Science says. I'm only saying that they are NOT mutually-exclusive. I'm saying that as a Christian and a Scientist.) To say, I don't believe anything is true and I consider possibilities., is a dead end, because you can draw no conclusions. Conclusions are necessary if one is to know anything. When you say things like there is no actual matter and the universe weighs exactly zero, I'm not sure how you have drawn those conclusions, because you don't believe anything is true. It's like you think we live in "The Matrix" or something. The universe doesn't weigh anything, because in order to weigh something, you must have something to weigh it against. The universe has MASS, because matter has mass, and things with mass bend space/time, just as Einstein predicted they would. In order for there to be a "Big Crunch", the universe's expansion would be slowing down under the force of gravity, but as has been established, the universe's expansion is accelerating. If the universe is getting larger, at an ever faster pace, then no "Big Crunch". The answer to your question,Did something set all of this in motion, is obviously, Yes. We are here. You are reading this. Something caused this to happen. Whatever you believe caused it, takes a leap of faith. And once you've taken that leap, you can then pursue the Truth. I believe the God gave us the freedom to choose. His Son was intended to give us (the most important part of) the Truth. Edited April 25, 2009 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I can accept that you believe I am a sheep for my Christian beliefs, . belief in Him does not make one a sheep. following church dogma unquestioningly is what makes one a sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 belief in Him does not make one a sheep. following church dogma unquestioningly is what makes one a sheep. 100% agreed. I was attempting to make that point in my post to Trim (immediately above yours). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I like some of things I've been reading here. Many times non-Christians accuse Christians as being naive or brain-washed regarding science. They seem to think that because we are able to connect to a higher power that we are not able to appreciate or respect science. We are able to connect to something that doesn't require tools or devices. In fact that disregard of science accounts for only a tiny fraction of Christians. In reality many Christians see science as merely man's logical attempt to explain the universe around him. Unfortunately, logic stems from knowledge, so properly explaining new phenomena is tricky. Measurement is limited by the minds that created the measuring devices. Many Christians I know believe that one day science will concur with religion (at least some of the primary tenets). Realize that religion is capable of evolving, or clarifying, it's explanation of previous scripture because a relationship with God is a thousand times more powerful than reading a book. In essense, religion is a science too, but requires only one's mind, heart & prayer. No devices needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I like some of things I've been reading here. Many times non-Christians accuse Christians as being naive or brain-washed regarding science. They seem to think that because we are able to connect to a higher power that we are not able to appreciate or respect science. We are able to connect to something that doesn't require tools or devices. In fact that disregard of science accounts for only a tiny fraction of Christians. In reality many Christians see science as merely man's logical attempt to explain the universe around him. Unfortunately, logic stems from knowledge, so properly explaining new phenomena is tricky. Measurement is limited by the minds that created the measuring devices. Many Christians I know believe that one day science will concur with religion (at least some of the primary tenets). Realize that religion is capable of evolving, or clarifying, it's explanation of previous scripture because a relationship with God is a thousand times more powerful than reading a book. In essense, religion is a science too, but requires only one's mind, heart & prayer. No devices needed. Religion can't change. It is set in stone. Once it changes, it stops being religion. Therefore, the high, almost infinite probability is that religion is wrong. The difference between science and religion is that religion claims to have all the answers, and science doesn't. I will never know the answers, and that doesn't bother me. I can live with it and die with it. I have no fear that I will encounter anything more negative after I die than someone who believes in superstitious religion. Why does every discussion have to come down to whether or not Jesus did so and so. Why not talk about Batman or The Fonz? What gives you the right to pull this particular character out of thin air. His existence has not been established, so leave him out or I will bring in The Fonz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Religion can't change. It is set in stone. Once it changes, it stops being religion. Religion changes. That's why there's thousands of flavors of Christianity, many variants of Islam, Buddhism, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Religion changes. That's why there's thousands of flavors of Christianity, many variants of Islam, Buddhism, etc. They are false. None of them can be true. There can be only one true religion at most. Things happened one way. If you say they happened in multiple different ways, then all but one has to be wrong, and the other one is probably wrong as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 People aren't wrong to believe in what they way. You're beliefs are just as ignorant as the beliefs of the people that you claim to oppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 They are false. None of them can be true. There can be only one true religion at most. Things happened one way. If you say they happened in multiple different ways, then all but one has to be wrong, and the other one is probably wrong as well. No one knows. If God exists, He hasn't really said what the real thing is, recently, so it's all conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 They are false. None of them can be true. There can be only one true religion at most. Things happened one way. If you say they happened in multiple different ways, then all but one has to be wrong, and the other one is probably wrong as well. thing is Trim, having read the key sacred scriptures of all major world religions, is that is minimum 80% overlap between any 2. Usually much more than that. Read them all and it starts making sense that is a common source forall. Just as scientists have found a common humanoid ancestor that we all derive from. So I feel the need to get my back up when people say theirs is correct and everyone else is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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