macattak1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 See, you're inferring it again. If it is "uncommon" for Christians to be jailed for violent offenses, then obviously someone else is being jailed for violent offenses much more often. Who are those others? Jews? Muslims? Atheists? Who's commmitting all the murders if it's not the innocent Christians? Provide some evidence of this. It is simply my position that violent people are violent people and those violent people are going to come from all religious backgrounds, despite what you might want to believe. In general, if your going to follow Christ your going to be keeping out of trouble. I have no idea who or what is in jail. But I know that predominantly they would not be Christians because that is not generally the definition of Christian. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 In general, if your going to follow Christ your going to be keeping out of trouble. I have no idea who or what is in jail. But I know that predominantly they would not be Christians because that is not generally the definition of Christian. Peace and Blessings Most people, no matter their religious preference, are not predisposed to killing people or getting in trouble. Religion has nothing to do with it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Most people, no matter their religious preference, are not predisposed to killing people or getting in trouble. Religion has nothing to do with it at all. That is where you and Scripture differ. Scripture states that man is broken and that God is what holds us back from destroying ourselves. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That is where you and Scripture differ. Scripture states that man is broken and that God is what holds us back from destroying ourselves. Peace and Blessings Well since I don't believe Scripture, that puts us right back at square one, doesn't it? I'm no more "broken" than any Christian. In many cases, I consider myself less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) Whether a person is moral or immoral is irrelevent to whether he believes in religion or doesn't believe. A religion is like a club with rules and beliefs. To be a member, you have to follow all of the rules. What is important to me is not whether they are good or nice, but whether they are wrong or correct. I don't think that any religion is correct. If you want, you can make up your own set of beliefs and believe in them, but that will not be any religion. It will be your own set of beliefs. If you can get others to join you, then you can give it a name. I have opinions on many, many topics. The odds of someone else having exactly the same opinions is infinitessimally small. What are the odds of a religion which holds opinions on just about everything being either totally in sync with any of its members or reality? Nevertheless, that is what they claim. They claim that everything they say is true. I can't live that way. I have to have the freedom to evaluate and draw my own conclusions. Edited December 9, 2008 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 That is where you and Scripture differ. Scripture states that man is broken and that God is what holds us back from destroying ourselves. Peace and Blessings Another reason to study the bible so that we may further understand its hypocrisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Another reason to study the bible so that we may further understand its hypocrisy. Is it your intent to be provocative, or do you believe that? If you truly believe that, then I'd appreciate an example of the Bible's hypocrisy, so we may all learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) Is it your intent to be provocative, or do you believe that? If you truly believe that, then I'd appreciate an example of the Bible's hypocrisy, so we may all learn. Noah's son finds him lying passed out naked in the middle of his vineyard. He covers his father with a blanket. Noah Enslaves his son and all of his descendants for many generations. This is the one man pure enough to be spared in the great flood? I wish I was so righteous Edited December 10, 2008 by Versa-Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Noah's son finds him lying passed out naked in the middle of his vineyard. He covers his father with a blanket. Noah Enslaves his son and all of his descendants for many generations. This is the one man pure enough to be spared in the great flood? I wish I was so righteous Is this a history lesson, or an instruction on how we are to conduct ourselves? In either case, where is the hypocrisy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 Is this a history lesson, or an instruction on how we are to conduct ourselves? In either case, where is the hypocrisy? Oh wow. Think about it. Every other man on the planet was deemed to evil to exist. This is the one guy who was not. He enslaved his own son for doing the right thing. Are you trying to say that what Noah did was good? Are you trying to say that it is evil to cover your drunk of a father when he is passed out naked in public? How could the rest of the world who died horrifically for their sins be any more evil than Noah? The better question is "Where isn't the hypocrisy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) The better question is "Where isn't the hypocrisy" Swearing like a trooper on one thread - Preaching the bible on another, putting folk down telling folk they are thick and then boasting about how your I.Q. is so superior then failing to answer questions at all. My God you are SOOOOOO humble. Mat 7:15 Edited December 10, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 Swearing like a trooper on one thread - Preaching the bible on another, putting folk down telling folk they are thick and then boasting about how your I.Q. is so superior then failing to answer questions at all. My God you are SOOOOOO humble. Preaching the Bible? Boasting of my superior IQ? Please cite where I have done either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Oh wow. Think about it. Every other man on the planet was deemed to evil to exist. This is the one guy who was not. (from the story) Noah was not alone on the boat. He only built it. He enslaved his own son for doing the right thing. Are you trying to say that what Noah did was good? I have not said anything. You have drawn a conclusion. Are you trying to say that it is evil to cover your drunk of a father when he is passed out naked in public? How could the rest of the world who died horrifically for their sins be any more evil than Noah? The better question is "Where isn't the hypocrisy" While this may make Noah a hypocrite, why does it make the Bible hypocritical? Or are you saying that God is? (in the Old Testament) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Preaching the Bible? Boasting of my superior IQ? Please cite where I have done either... Got you, you've got owned Gotta say you know l cant post links here, because this is not a thread that most folk would enjoy seeing your photo's of a couple copulating on the front seat of a car. They are on American Automakers are Doomed post 45 onwards if anybody wants to be impressed by Versa Techs high IQ Try answering the question l know its hard for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 While this may make Noah a hypocrite, why does it make the Bible hypocritical? Or are you saying that God is? (in the Old Testament) According to the Old Testament, YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Well since I don't believe Scripture, that puts us right back at square one, doesn't it? I'm no more "broken" than any Christian. In many cases, I consider myself less so. That is good. The Dr. calls for the sick just as Jesus calls the sick. I am immensely happy and content to be of the sick. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 That is good. The Dr. calls for the sick just as Jesus calls the sick. I am immensely happy and content to be of the sick. Peace and Blessings And I am immensely happy and content without being labeled anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Noah's son finds him lying passed out naked in the middle of his vineyard. He covers his father with a blanket. Noah Enslaves his son and all of his descendants for many generations. This is the one man pure enough to be spared in the great flood? I wish I was so righteous The value of the scripture is greatly lessened if one does not understand the Fall. Noah is human. Not perfect. His son sinned. It was not in a vineyard. That is where he grew grapes. It was in his tent. And instead of covering him like his brothers did he sinned by telling people about what he saw. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 By the teachings of the most respected christian theologists, if you know in your heart that you have done the best to live a good life, you are good and therefore afford yourself the purity to enter paradiso. So-called christians who dispute this simply do not know the teachings of their own religion. That whole statement is contrary to scripture so I guess that makes me a "so-called christian". Even beginning Christians know that doing your best and being good has nothing to do with being Saved and I feel sorry for anyone that teaches that or believes it. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Even beginning Christians know that doing your best and being good has nothing to do with being Saved and I feel sorry for anyone that teaches that or believes it. Which is what makes the entire concept of Christianity so silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Which is what makes the entire concept of Christianity so silly. How so? Man fell into sin. Man can not heal or purify himself. Not by being good, killing others, nothing. God takes the sin, pain, suffering upon Himself. That is what sets it so far apart from the other get rich and get saved and get right religions where you do it all yourself and the god or entity, if there even is one, is indifferent, uncaring, and cold. Every one believes in something. Themselves, wisdom, spirits, animals, some fat man, what ever. There is something. But the Christian God is the only one that I know of that comes from a selfless, righteous, loving, active God. Further, it is the only one that I can go through the text and see prophecy foretold and that prophecy fulfilled perhaps hundreds of times. No other religion offers that. It is one of a kind. And the only thing you need is the text. No other human required to start. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 How so? Man fell into sin. Man can not heal or purify himself. Not by being good, killing others, nothing. God takes the sin, pain, suffering upon Himself. That is what sets it so far apart from the other get rich and get saved and get right religions where you do it all yourself and the god or entity, if there even is one, is indifferent, uncaring, and cold. Every one believes in something. Themselves, wisdom, spirits, animals, some fat man, what ever. There is something. But the Christian God is the only one that I know of that comes from a selfless, righteous, loving, active God. Further, it is the only one that I can go through the text and see prophecy foretold and that prophecy fulfilled perhaps hundreds of times. No other religion offers that. It is one of a kind. And the only thing you need is the text. No other human required to start. Peace and Blessings The whole "I'm saved" line is what gets me. "Just accept God into your life and act like a schmuck. It's okay. You're saved. It doesn't matter if you are an asshole." Christianity removes any requirement for self-responsibility. And well, the whole mysticism of the bible falls flat when you realize it was written by man. If man is fallable, so is the book he wrote. And to possibly believe that it hasn't changed through the many centuries of existence is also laughable. It has been rewritten, reinterpreted, and twisted around to suit whatever the dominant culture of the time is. It's like a centuries-old game of Telephone. Even if correct at one point, the version you and I see today likely doesn't resemble the original much in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 That whole statement is contrary to scripture so I guess that makes me a "so-called christian". Even beginning Christians know that doing your best and being good has nothing to do with being Saved and I feel sorry for anyone that teaches that or believes it. Peace and Blessings Oh you are wrong on this one buddy. I had to grow up around my father who as a PhD in Theology. I have more books on theology sitting on my coffee table than you have probably have ever read in your entire life. Jesus Christ taught that faith is nothing without good works. All of that bullshit about "faith alone will save you," was preached by a man later found to be legally insane. Protestants represent the true nature of evil: Those that preach goodness, and do nothing in the when faced with true evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Ah Versa, are you trying to say that all those Catholics that I have known all my life that commit every sin that they have the opportunity to. . . all week long because they know that going to confession will get them absolution . . . do mean that they have been tricked by the church/priests/et al and are really in deep do-do? Oh my! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The whole "I'm saved" line is what gets me. "Just accept God into your life and act like a schmuck. It's okay. You're saved. It doesn't matter if you are an asshole." Christianity removes any requirement for self-responsibility. And well, the whole mysticism of the bible falls flat when you realize it was written by man. If man is fallable, so is the book he wrote. And to possibly believe that it hasn't changed through the many centuries of existence is also laughable. It has been rewritten, reinterpreted, and twisted around to suit whatever the dominant culture of the time is. It's like a centuries-old game of Telephone. Even if correct at one point, the version you and I see today likely doesn't resemble the original much in the least. Very sad. That people act they way they do and that people believe that one can act anyway they wants as a Christian. Scripture teaches 180 degrees in the opposite direction. We are to be a good witness, owe no man nothing, love our enemy more than others, sin no more, etc. But I know the people of which you speak. As a kid I cooked for and waited on them Sunday after Sunday in a restaurant down the street from a very big church. So two problems arise from this. One is the 'christian' acting like they do which certainly calls into question their steps and the path they are following. The other is none Christians thinking that Christians are supposed to be perfect which we are not in any way capable of. The whole mystery becomes real when you realize that men of old wrote God breathed and inspired words. Because man is fallible and corrupt I would personally never entrust my spiritual life into another man's hands. You can do as you like, but blaming scripture for what man does with it is like blaming the saw for cutting a hole out from under you. Scripture is about a spiritual battle. It is irrelevant what age or culture you live in. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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