Theology

[Edstock]

There is a whole world outside of the Bible. North American Aboriginals survived for 17,000 years without Christianity. They didn't know about it, and it didn't know about them.

Marvellous. Then again, according to some, the North American aboriginals got visited by Jesus, who just couldn't stay away, it seems.

[Trimdingman]

Marvellous. Then again, according to some, the North American aboriginals got visited by Jesus, who just couldn't stay away, it seems.

 

If you believe that, you have the capacity to believe anything. There is no concrete evidence that he even existed. The story has been re-told and added to over the centuries. It is like Superman going from a strong man who runs fast to an all powerful being capable of anything. Writers have a tendancy to get carried away in order to keep people buying their line. When the Bible was written, North America existed, and there were civilizations living there. However the "all-knowing" God and Jesus had no knowledge of their existence. After they were "discovered", people started asking questions about this, so the Mormon Religion was invented. Children believe in Santa Claus and fairies. Ancient Greeks believed in a god standing on a mountain throwing thunder bolts. Greek mythology was very popular. After the Romans conquered them, it died. Islam and Zionism are practiced by many millions of people, along with Christianity. There are scholars with doctorate degrees studying and believing in each one. At least two out of three of these religions have to be wrong, so what are these wrong headed people doing with PHds? They must just give them out to anybody like high school diplomas.

[macattak1]

"Faith without works is dead".This is scripturally true.However its believing in your heart,from the depth of your soul and not just in your head because you want to escape the torments of hell

that Jesus, who is God, died for our sins on the cross and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Believe this and you will be saved, no matter what! all it takes is simple faith,faith the size of a mustard seed.

How can I know for sure that I'm a Christian?

There is a scarcity of accurate Biblical thinking on this subject. Most people think it is very, very easy to know you are saved, or else they believe it is nearly impossible. Neither is true. It is easier to GET saved than to know you are saved. The Bible says that, "Many will say, 'Lord, Lord,' and not enter into the kingdom of heaven." There will be pastors, deacons, and faithful church people who will be surprised to find themselves in hell.

The Bible gives ONE assurance of salvation. It is neither an experience nor a decision. It isn't something you do nor what you think you believe. It is a lifestyle characterized by INNER desires which are different than the world around us. These things either happen naturally or they do not happen at all (though I'm sure we can fake it well enough to fool ourselves ...just not anybody else).

1 John (near the end of the Bible) is a book written, "That you might KNOW that you have eternal life." In it are the five things that WILL CHANGE when you are saved and become a regular part of your life. You may be saved and not fit the bill exactly, but you can never be SURE you are saved until you do.

The first symptom of a true Christian is that they love the light. They love truth. They BELIEVE in God because they have found Him to be real and true NOT BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE THAT AS THEIR RELIGION!! They pursue accuracy in their thinking, purity in their heart, and goodness in their life. Where they fall down they freely admit it. They WALK IN LIGHT (1 John 1:5-10 Read it).

Secondly they OBEY GOD. This is not a requirement for salvation. Please understand that. This is a symptom of a saved person. I say symptom because it's not something you DO but something you ARE. You WANT to obey God! If a person asks me how much they can sin and still be a Christian, I have serious doubts if they are a Christian. Christians love God and wish to obey Him. If that's not your NATURE, than you probably aren't saved and never have been (1 John 2:3-6)

Third, true Christians love Christian people. Linus of peanuts was contemplating a career as a doctor but his sister told him he was unfit for that occupation because he didn't love mankind. "I do too love mankind," argued Linus pompously, then mumbled, "It's people I can't stand."

John says "Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness." We're family. "Do I have to go to Church to become a Christian? NO! But Church is a place you'll love to go if you become a true Christian."

The fourth symptom of a sterling Christian life is they hate sin and, in fact, find it impossible to go on sinning (1 John 3:4-10). There is two reasons for this. One is that you have joined the side of Jesus who died to save you from that sin. You have left the team of Satan who enslaved you in sin. Secondly God won't let you go on sinning if you are really His.

Lastly we know we live in God and He in us because He has given us His Spirit. if you don't feel the warmth and strength of the living God flowing inside of you, than you are probably not a Christian. Christianity is not a religion but a real relationship with the God who made you."

When you really believe and are saved you will find there is a REAL God who interacts with you, speaks to your heart, convicts you of sin, leads you in His path. Makes you feel warm inside when you draw near to Him and focus on His presence. You will FEEL the Spirit inside of you! And it's wonderful. If you have not had that experience than you probably don't really know Him. :shades:

 

Good post but perhaps a little off on the faith part.

 

The faith that you open with is also a work, incapable of providing salvation else we would be part of the salvation process. But we are not part of it because a dead thing can never choose life and we are all unrighteous. The only Faith capable of salvation is the Faith of the Son in the Father. That is the Only Faith not of works. His Faith we can stand on. Our faith is a bi-product of our salvation. When we start to include ourselves in the salvation process it breaks the whole idea of Plus Nothing, Him only, His sacrifice, our unrighteousness, stiff necks, etc.

 

The spiritual Church is capable of providing such great and amazing comfort, support, guidance, etc. The church at 7th and J is a church of men and may provide some of these from time to time but it can also be torn down today by the unrighteous or tomorrow by developers to make a 7-11 store. The eternal church is what we want and should yearn for. The corporate church is possibly a nice place but full of unsaved and maybe some saved.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

They fear dying because of greed. They do not want to give up material posessions, so they dream up this better place where they will not need them. If they gradually give their possessions to the church, then dying will not be so hard. The poor have an easier death than the rich. Dying is as natural as birth. If there is something after death, it will not be dependent on belief in some foolishness.

 

What gives your life value? What gives you value? Where do you draw hope from? What do you lean on when you are all alone? What is there that is greater than yourself? Why do you care about others and their hurts and hopes and dreams and needs?

 

What you posted above is simply foolishness. Christians are not afraid of death. A christian has nothing to fear from death. Christians also hold lightly to their possessions and as a whole give more than any other group to help others. But the biggest point you miss is that Christians are sick. The Dr. comes not for the well but for the sick. You don't call a physician for the well.

 

In order to understand Christianity and God one must spend time in the Word. That is the only place He is guaranteed to be. If one has no desire to look into the Word then perhaps they are either not called or not hearing the call.

 

Its a straight and narrow path. Many are called but few hear and fewer respond.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

If you believe that, you have the capacity to believe anything. There is no concrete evidence that he even existed. The story has been re-told and added to over the centuries. It is like Superman going from a strong man who runs fast to an all powerful being capable of anything. Writers have a tendancy to get carried away in order to keep people buying their line. When the Bible was written, North America existed, and there were civilizations living there. However the "all-knowing" God and Jesus had no knowledge of their existence. After they were "discovered", people started asking questions about this, so the Mormon Religion was invented. Children believe in Santa Claus and fairies. Ancient Greeks believed in a god standing on a mountain throwing thunder bolts. Greek mythology was very popular. After the Romans conquered them, it died. Islam and Zionism are practiced by many millions of people, along with Christianity. There are scholars with doctorate degrees studying and believing in each one. At least two out of three of these religions have to be wrong, so what are these wrong headed people doing with PHds? They must just give them out to anybody like high school diplomas.

 

Show me concrete evidence for everything you believe that is not right in front of you. Concretely prove to me the Peloponnesian War was real. Prove to me your NA Aboriginals survived for 17k years. You take a lot on faith. How do you know the writers and scientists and such have your aboriginal peoples right? Maybe your aborigines are just fairy tales added to over the years by some people. The fact is that you can not concretely prove that Zeus was not a real god.

 

But there is fact in the bible that has been proven out over time. Its called Prophecy. And one can read the book and see how it has fulfilled some 300+ prophetic declarations if I recall correctly. Simply look at the transition from the Jew to the Gentile. Or the Jewish state from nothing to monolithic power to nothing and then back, as the Word says, to a nation once again, but not a world power. The scripture is full of amazing things that were declared and came about.

 

Its clear you believe and have faith. Not in God, but in yourself. That is not a very lasting faith partner. It easily leaves you when you most need it. God is the opposite. He is there for you the more you seek Him. He is way better than friends, teachers, scientists, historians, family, etc.

 

Peace and Blessings

[Trimdingman]

I don't believe in any of it. I would not be crushed if any of this were proven to be wrong. That is unlike religious people whose whole life is dependent on fantasies being true. Maybe I am just somebody's dream. I don't care.

[Edstock]

Concretely prove to me the Peloponnesian War was real.

No problem, but you'll have to fly to Greece.

 

Prove to me your NA Aboriginals survived for 17k years.

No problem, visit the paleontology departments of any of the major universities in the South-West.

 

How do you know the writers and scientists and such have your aboriginal peoples right?

Well, studying and reading seems to be the most common method of acquiring knowledge. Knowledge expands with time, as new facts come to life, that raise further questions.

 

But there is fact in the bible that has been proven out over time. Its called Prophecy.

As you say, concretely prove to me. Otherwise, this is just your opinion.

[Dale143]

No problem, but you'll have to fly to Greece.

 

 

No problem, visit the paleontology departments of any of the major universities in the South-West.

 

 

Well, studying and reading seems to be the most common method of acquiring knowledge. Knowledge expands with time, as new facts come to life, that raise further questions.

 

 

As you say, concretely prove to me. Otherwise, this is just your opinion.

 

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/L108.html

[jpd80]

Its clear you believe and have faith. Not in God, but in yourself. That is not a very lasting faith partner. It easily leaves you when you most need it. God is the opposite. He is there for you the more you seek Him. He is way better than friends, teachers, scientists, historians, family, etc.

 

Peace and Blessings

How do you know God is a HE?

Edited December 27, 2008 by jpd80

[Trimdingman]

I don't need any gods. I know and am in acceptance of the fact that I will be dead sooner rather than later. Fretting and praying is not going to change that. When you get too old and sickly, you welcome death. It is not something to fear. It is something to do with dignity if possible. You do not want to spend your last years of your life being a burden on the ones you love until they grow to detest being around you. It is better if you leave while fond memories of you still outweigh the piteous ones to your loved ones. If there is no comprehension after death, it does not matter, for you will not miss life if you have no comprehension. If we are part of a greater whole, then after death we will experience greater things. It is not meant for us to know these things if they exist, so it is best to just enjoy life and not fret over things that you can't control. If you put false beliefs into your mind, your learning and reasoning processes become distorted, and you fall prey to unscrupulous groups who want to control you. Life is much better if you live it according to your own terms, not under someone else's umbrella. That umbrella can be a repressive government, a religion, a domineering family member, or you could be a slave, working for low wages for someone. Freedom is what we have always strived for. People who attain freedom know the feeling. Some people who have never known real freedom don't understand what it is. They have lived their entire lives under an invisible umbrella, and are afraid to make their own choices, like the bird who fears leaving its cage when the door is left open.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Trimdingman

[macattak1]

How do you know God is a HE?

 

 

My God is the Christian God. Scripture is clear on Him.

 

Peace and Blessings

[Versa-Tech]

My God is the Christian God. Scripture is clear on Him.

 

Peace and Blessings

This is the problem with most Christians. They just don't research their shit. Any literature written before the second half of the 20th century will use the masculine form, when identifying one of unknown gender. Now we simply write Him/Her, but only formally. In most romantic languages, it is still correct to use the masculine form when referring to a group of people, even if all of them are female. In speech, most languages still assume the masculine form in reference to anyone of unknown gender.

 

Furthermore, Theology defines god as a trinity. His existence could not fit either classification of gender.

 

You know, most people who read ancient scripts actually study ancient history and culture...

Edited December 27, 2008 by Versa-Tech

[macattak1]

This is the problem with most Christians. They just don't research their shit. Any literature written before the second half of the 20th century will use the masculine form, when identifying one of unknown gender. Now we simply write Him/Her, but only formally. In most romantic languages, it is still correct to use the masculine form when referring to a group of people, even if all of them are female. In speech, most languages still assume the masculine form in reference to anyone of unknown gender.

 

Furthermore, Theology defines god as a trinity. His existence could not fit either classification of gender.

 

You know, most people who read ancient scripts actually study ancient history and culture...

 

That is the difference between you and I.

I follow the God of the scriptures. The OT and the NT.

 

You follow men and what they teach about the scriptures form all those historical and cultural, etc. points of view.

 

I skip all that and just simply go to the source. And the more you talk about what you know of scripture leads me to believe you really know nothing about it and believe very little of it. You don't appear to have any real understanding or faith. You follow your own opinions not the teachings of the bible. Good luck with that.

[suv_guy_19]

You follow your own opinions not the teachings of the bible. Good luck with that.

 

 

And you follow your own interpretations of a book that was written by men. Good luck with that.

[Edstock]

I skip all that and just simply go to the source.

You may "skip all that" these days, but as a child, you acquired your basic understanding of the Bible/God/Christianity at church or from adults at home and elsewhere, where the hoo-ha was explained to you. With those basics, those "teachings of the bible", you feel you can confidently eschew the pursuit of further "teachings of the bible".

 

Skipping can result in theological ignorance, though. You might consider the study of those NT gospels that were edited out at Nicea. Start with "The Secret Gospel" by Morton Smith for an overview of what you've missed. Like Zappa asked, "is that a Sears poncho, or is that a real poncho?" Well, the NT after Nicea is a Sears poncho. The original NT is the real, non politically-edited NT.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Edstock

[macattak1]

And you follow your own interpretations of a book that was written by men. Good luck with that.

 

No I follow what God inspired and protects. That you don't have faith in God to protect His Word is unfortunate. Fortunately I don't have that challenge.

 

Peace and Blessings

[suv_guy_19]

No I follow what God inspired and protects. That you don't have faith in God to protect His Word is unfortunate. Fortunately I don't have that challenge.

 

Peace and Blessings

 

 

I have faith in God. I have very little faith in a book.

[macattak1]

You may "skip all that" these days, but as a child, you acquired your basic understanding of the Bible/God/Christianity at church or from adults at home and elsewhere, where the hoo-ha was explained to you. With those basics, those "teachings of the bible", you feel you can confidently eschew the pursuit of further "teachings of the bible".

 

Skipping can result in theological ignorance, though. You might consider the study of those NT gospels that were edited out at Nicea. Start with "The Secret Gospel" by Morton Smith for an overview of what you've missed. Like Zappa asked, "is that a Sears poncho, or is that a real poncho?" Well, the NT after Nicea is a Sears poncho. The original NT is the real, non politically-edited NT.

 

Funny how you know how much 'teaching' I had as a kid.

 

In fact I had little to none. However, when I was to start having kids and being a father I thought about how I wanted to raise them. In the ways of the Lord was the only real concern I had. So I sought out the Word and a few good teachers. Good teachers are hard to come buy. But luckely I don't need human teachers. God gave us the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us. God applies the teachings to our souls.

 

Further teachings of the bible have never come from those few good teachers or any other books. The real teachings come from the Word.

 

Theology? Who's theology? Talk about possible hoo-ha. Paul had no Theologians to go to. He had the Word. Good enough for him good enough for me. I hope I never rely on man and man's books more than I do God and His Word.

 

The KJV is good enough for me. It has some of the fewest mistakes and I am familiar with many of those. It originates from the oldest original copies. I am comfortable with that.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

I have faith in God. I have very little faith in a book.

 

 

So where do you get your teachings? Sounds like they either come from your self or from other men. You don't appear to have any faith in the scripture and that is the only place worthy of your faith.

 

Peace and Blessings

[suv_guy_19]

So where do you get your teachings? Sounds like they either come from your self or from other men. You don't appear to have any faith in the scripture and that is the only place worthy of your faith.

 

Peace and Blessings

 

 

God is everywhere. Wherever you need him to be. Its that simple.

Edited December 28, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[Trimdingman]

They shouldn't be putting these ideas into children's minds. If there is any truth to it, they will understand it for themselves when they are old enough. The fact that the church wants it brainwashed into them from infancy proves to me that it is false.

[Dale143]

Funny how you know how much 'teaching' I had as a kid.

 

In fact I had little to none. However, when I was to start having kids and being a father I thought about how I wanted to raise them. In the ways of the Lord was the only real concern I had. So I sought out the Word and a few good teachers. Good teachers are hard to come buy. But luckely I don't need human teachers. God gave us the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us. God applies the teachings to our souls.

 

Further teachings of the bible have never come from those few good teachers or any other books. The real teachings come from the Word.

 

Theology? Who's theology? Talk about possible hoo-ha. Paul had no Theologians to go to. He had the Word. Good enough for him good enough for me. I hope I never rely on man and man's books more than I do God and His Word.

 

The KJV is good enough for me. It has some of the fewest mistakes and I am familiar with many of those. It originates from the oldest original copies. I am comfortable with that.

 

Peace and Blessings

When you walk into my house you will notice a nicely framed quote that goes a little like this....

"Choose you this day whom ye will serve,as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

[Versa-Tech]

That is the difference between you and I.

I follow the God of the scriptures. The OT and the NT.

 

You follow men and what they teach about the scriptures form all those historical and cultural, etc. points of view.

 

I skip all that and just simply go to the source. And the more you talk about what you know of scripture leads me to believe you really know nothing about it and believe very little of it. You don't appear to have any real understanding or faith. You follow your own opinions not the teachings of the bible. Good luck with that.

You follow the writings of uneducated men. Writings that have been translated by men many times over many centuries.

 

I follow history. It is unbiased and untarnished.

 

You choose to ignore simple questions because you are afraid. You are afraid of the truth. If your faith was so strong, then you would not be so afraid of the evidence that conflicts it. That my good sir is called ignorance.

 

You have no faith.

[Dale143]

They shouldn't be putting these ideas into children's minds. If there is any truth to it, they will understand it for themselves when they are old enough. The fact that the church wants it brainwashed into them from infancy proves to me that it is false.

 

It goes both ways my friend,let me adjust your words a little.

 

You shouldn't be putting these ideas into children's minds. If there is any truth to it, they will understand it for themselves when they are old enough. The fact that Trimdingman wants it brainwash into them from infancy proves to me that it could be false.(Based on what ever you were taught or whatever you teach your children.)

 

I was 26 when i received salvation.That's 26 years of casual study about everything from politics to religion.

That's after accomplishments of high school.college and armed service.It had nothing to do with someone else telling me its this way or that way.I chose in my time what i would believe in, with the help of a little spiritual conviction. I concluded for me what i believe to be without a doubt the truth.

And by the way,children are not forced to go forward to get saved.They learn about God and Christ in church and they learn about secular life in public.Then they choose when they are ready which way to go.Nobody forces them.

[Trimdingman]

It goes both ways my friend,let me adjust your words a little.

 

You shouldn't be putting these ideas into children's minds. If there is any truth to it, they will understand it for themselves when they are old enough. The fact that Trimdingman wants it brainwash into them from infancy proves to me that it could be false.(Based on what ever you were taught or whatever you teach your children.)

 

I was 26 when i received salvation.That's 26 years of casual study about everything from politics to religion.

That's after accomplishments of high school.college and armed service.It had nothing to do with someone else telling me its this way or that way.I chose in my time what i would believe in, with the help of a little spiritual conviction. I concluded for me what i believe to be without a doubt the truth.

And by the way,children are not forced to go forward to get saved.They learn about God and Christ in church and they learn about secular life in public.Then they choose when they are ready which way to go.Nobody forces them.

 

 

Fair enough. You did it to yourself. I bet that some seeds were planted along the way, though. You didn't realize it because it was in your sub-conscious. Christianity is a complex subject that has to be learned. It does not just "come to you". It is being subtly planted into your sub-conscious mind all the time. The images and the songs are constantly bombarding you. The only escape is to consciously recognize and reject them. The songs and the pictures are just made up. Moses didn't part the Red Sea, even though Cecil B. Demille did a good job of depicting it in the movie, "The Ten Commandments". How many people converted to Christianity after watching that movie? How many Christians were there in North America in the 13th century? None, because there was no exposure to it. Were they all doomed to go to Hell because they never heard of some made up religion?