Theology

[macattak1]

Oh you are wrong on this one buddy. I had to grow up around my father who as a PhD in Theology. I have more books on theology sitting on my coffee table than you have probably have ever read in your entire life. Jesus Christ taught that faith is nothing without good works. All of that bullshit about "faith alone will save you," was preached by a man later found to be legally insane. Protestants represent the true nature of evil: Those that preach goodness, and do nothing in the when faced with true evil.

PHD in Theology means what to me? It means little if he does not believe. If he believes then I am very happy for him.

 

There is a spiritual dividing line. Above it is worthy and below is unworthy. Scripture sits atop and alone. Below it sits all the writings of men from horrible to excellent. Theology included

 

What you fail to understand is that Good Works is simply an End Result of being born again. Not part of being born again. You have your timeline mixed up. And for proof one can simply look up those in the scripture that were Children of God before they were even born and had a chance to do good works. So you and your theologians have it backwards. Being saved brings about good works. Good works do not bring about being saved.

 

? Who's Faith is it that saves?

 

Peace and Blessings

Edited December 10, 2008 by macattak1

[Versa-Tech]

PHD in Theology means what to me? It means little if he does not believe. If he believes then I am very happy for him.

 

There is a spiritual dividing line. Above it is worthy and below is unworthy. Scripture sits atop and alone. Below it sits all the writings of men from horrible to excellent. Theology included

 

What you fail to understand is that Good Works is simply an End Result of being born again. Not part of being born again. You have your timeline mixed up. And for proof one can simply look up those in the scripture that were Children of God before they were even born and had a chance to do good works. So you and your theologians have it backwards. Being saved brings about good works. Good works do not bring about being saved.

 

? Who's Faith is it that saves?

 

Peace and Blessings

My father is a devout catholic. It is you sir that as ass-backwards. Any man can do good. You are full of shit.

[macattak1]

My father is a devout catholic. It is you sir that as ass-backwards. Any man can do good. You are full of shit.

 

 

And there in lies the truth of it.

 

Go read your Thread title again?

[Versa-Tech]

And there in lies the truth of it.

 

Go read your Thread title again?

Are you insane?

[macattak1]

Are you insane?

 

So, how does one become saved? Tell me.

How does an unborn child become saved?

 

Peace and Blessings

[Versa-Tech]

So, how does one become saved? Tell me.

How does an unborn child become saved?

 

Peace and Blessings

First of all, I can't stand the term "saved". It is even written in your book that god gave man free will. Secondly, an unborn child is without sin and has no need of "Saving".

[macattak1]

First of all, I can't stand the term "saved". It is even written in your book that god gave man free will. Secondly, an unborn child is without sin and has no need of "Saving".

 

Born again then.

 

And with that free will they fell into sin. And all their children and the generations to follow.

 

Everyone needs saving. Unborn babies, Mary the mother of Jesus, beggars in the streets, rich in their castles, everyone.

 

Peace and Blessings

[Versa-Tech]

Born again then.

 

And with that free will they fell into sin. And all their children and the generations to follow.

 

Everyone needs saving. Unborn babies, Mary the mother of Jesus, beggars in the streets, rich in their castles, everyone.

 

Peace and Blessings

Hello! UNBORN means not born at all.

[RangerM]

Ah Versa, are you trying to say that all those Catholics that I have known all my life that commit every sin that they have the opportunity to. . . all week long because they know that going to confession will get them absolution . . . do mean that they have been tricked by the church/priests/et al and are really in deep do-do?

 

Oh my!

 

Answer your own question. Even I, as a Christian, have a hard time believing that it is OK to sin with abandon, with the expection of wiping the slate clean, simply because you sat in one side of a two-tier phone booth and confessed your sins to another human.

 

When you believe, the desire to sin does not dominate your life. That is not to say you don't "fall off the wagon" from time to time, but only God can judge what is in your heart.

 

Neither I, nor Versa, nor Macattak1 can judge you. You must judge yourself, and whether or not you will allow yourself to be the master of your temptations, or if they will reign over you.

 

Many view Christianity as a weight to be borne (meaning they live in a constant state of guilt).

 

It is exactly the opposite.

[macattak1]

Answer your own question. Even I, as a Christian, have a hard time believing that it is OK to sin with abandon, with the expection of wiping the slate clean, simply because you sat in one side of a two-tier phone booth and confessed your sins to another human.

 

When you believe, the desire to sin does not dominate your life. That is not to say you don't "fall off the wagon" from time to time, but only God can judge what is in your heart.

 

Neither I, nor Versa, nor Macattak1 can judge you. You must judge yourself, and whether or not you will allow yourself to be the master of your temptations, or if they will reign over you.

 

Many view Christianity as a weight to be borne (meaning they live in a constant state of guilt).

 

It is exactly the opposite.

 

Amen!

 

Riiiiiiiiiiight!

 

Peace and Blessings

[Versa-Tech]

Answer your own question. Even I, as a Christian, have a hard time believing that it is OK to sin with abandon, with the expection of wiping the slate clean, simply because you sat in one side of a two-tier phone booth and confessed your sins to another human.

 

When you believe, the desire to sin does not dominate your life. That is not to say you don't "fall off the wagon" from time to time, but only God can judge what is in your heart.

 

Neither I, nor Versa, nor Macattak1 can judge you. You must judge yourself, and whether or not you will allow yourself to be the master of your temptations, or if they will reign over you.

 

Many view Christianity as a weight to be borne (meaning they live in a constant state of guilt).

 

It is exactly the opposite.

I find that my separation from organized religion forces me into a constant state of guilt and contemplation. When the shit hits the fan, there is no one to tell me that God is going make everything okay. My self-inflicted suffering forces me to grow as a imperfect being. I find that I have matured in ways that were not possible when I relied on my faith as a crutch. Edited December 11, 2008 by Versa-Tech

[RangerM]

I find that my separation from organized religion forces me into a constant state of guilt and contemplation. When the shit hits the fan, there is no one to tell me that God is going make everything okay. My self-inflicted suffering forces me to grow as a imperfect being. I find that I have matured in ways that were not possible when I relied on my faith as a crutch.

 

Take your experiences to your local church and share them. Perhaps others will benefit from your example.

[Versa-Tech]

Take your experiences to your local church and share them. Perhaps others will benefit from your example.

Perhaps... but I find it unlikely. My own parents have practically disowned me since I left the church, stereotyping me as someone that refuses it's teaching only so that I may do anything that I please. My principles have not changed since then, but they are blind.

 

I still believe that freedom of choice means the freedom to choose not to have sex, not the freedom to murder your own child.

 

I still believe that stem-cell research is simple modern cannibalism.

 

I still hold true to the ten commandments.

 

I still pray on a daily basis in order to strengthen my personal relationship with god.

 

I believe more than ever that man grows closer to god through self-sacrifice.

 

I practice more frequently than ever the virtue of charity.

 

Only since leaving my faith have I learned not to judge my fellow man for his sins and beliefs.

 

None of this matters to them, they only see and hear what they want to. They would rather judge me for [a mistaken assumption of] what I am, rather than who I am. If my own parents react in this way, I could only imagine how strangers of their same faith will.

[RangerM]

Perhaps... but I find it unlikely. My own parents have practically disowned me since I left the church, stereotyping me as someone that refuses it's teaching only so that I may do anything that I please. My principles have not changed since then, but they are blind.

 

None of this matters to them, they only see and hear what they want to. They would rather judge me for [a mistaken assumption of] what I am, rather than who I am. If my own parents react in this way, I could only imagine how strangers of their same faith will.

 

People can judge your actions, but it is not others' place to judge your faith (-fulness). I sympathize with your experience.

 

BTW, I don't believe you left your faith (especially if you pray).

 

Your faith is in God (and perhaps Jesus?); not in a specific church, and certainly not in another human being.

 

Church is only a place to share (and perhaps reinforce) your faith. It's not a substitute for it.

[Trimdingman]

I never got hung up on religion. I don't have to fret about whether it is true or not. It is a non-issue. When I look into the eyes of a deeply religious person, or when I talk to one, I see that he ain't right. His eyes are out of focus, and he speaks illogically. Somebody has power over him. If you look at old videos of Hitler's subjects at one of his orations, you will see the same thing. Mass hypnosis is at work whenever you see a crowd of people worshipping a raving fanatic.

Hitler's Naziism was a religion to him. He believed that the Aryan race were decendents of god-like beings. He did not think of himself as evil. He believed that he was sent by God to fix the world. Towards the end of the war, when victory seemed impossible, he still believed that his God would come through. He believed that the defeats and set-backs were merely a test of his faith. He was quite insane from religion.

Edited December 12, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Trimdingman]

Is there any historical record of Jesus' birth other than the Biblical allegory which was based on solar mythology. The beginning of the new cycle as the days grow longer after the winter solstice / birth of the new Sun God. From humble beginnings to King....Moses in the bullrushes.....Romulus and Remus suckled by a she-wolf....Jesus in the Manger.....the story is getting old.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Trimdingman

[RangerM]

Is there any historical record of Jesus' birth other than the Biblical allegory which was based on solar mythology. The beginning of the new cycle as the days grow longer after the winter solstice / birth of the new Sun God. From humble beginnings to King....Moses in the bullrushes.....Romulus and Remus sucked by a she-wolf....Jesus in the Manger.....the story is getting old.

 

If you exclude the Koran and the Apocrypha, then there are none that I am aware of. Although the existence of the Dead Sea Scrolls would lend some credence to the Bible's "historical" nature.

 

Christmas (as in December 25, or the winter solstice) as a celebration has Pagan roots, and does not coincide with the birth of Jesus. The birth of Jesus, even by Biblical standards, occurred during another time of year. Some experts claim late Spring, but the actual date is unknown.

[stephenhawkings]

i am glad to see that there is no shortage of religious nut jobs with an abundance of opinions to keep this thread alive and posting! happy oCHRIST(heres the credit card bill)MAS every one, even those of you who get a nice long vacation, and the ones that don't know the golden rule, and who keep their women underlock and key, and any other non practicing christians who still love to spend money this time of year and dont mind my inability to buy a forty this thursday because of some theolgistic crap.

[Trimdingman]

i am glad to see that there is no shortage of religious nut jobs with an abundance of opinions to keep this thread alive and posting! happy oCHRIST(heres the credit card bill)MAS every one, even those of you who get a nice long vacation, and the ones that don't know the golden rule, and who keep their women underlock and key, and any other non practicing christians who still love to spend money this time of year and dont mind my inability to buy a forty this thursday because of some theolgistic crap.

 

 

I love Christmas, but I am not a believer in Christianity, or any religion or any thing or concept. I don't believe in believing. However, it is nice to have this kind of celebration at this time of year, and the ones who celebrate it religiously deserve a lot of credit too. Merry Christmas!

[RangerM]

I love Christmas, but I am not a believer in Christianity, or any religion or any thing or concept. I don't believe in believing. However, it is nice to have this kind of celebration at this time of year, and the ones who celebrate it religiously deserve a lot of credit too. Merry Christmas!

 

And may peace and prosperity be yours in the new year. Enjoy your "winter break". :shades:

[Trimdingman]

And may peace and prosperity be yours in the new year. Enjoy your "winter break". :shades:

 

 

Merry Christmas and a prosperous and Happy New Year also to yourself and your family.

[Dale143]

PHD in Theology means what to me? It means little if he does not believe. If he believes then I am very happy for him.

 

There is a spiritual dividing line. Above it is worthy and below is unworthy. Scripture sits atop and alone. Below it sits all the writings of men from horrible to excellent. Theology included

 

What you fail to understand is that Good Works is simply an End Result of being born again. Not part of being born again. You have your time line mixed up. And for proof one can simply look up those in the scripture that were Children of God before they were even born and had a chance to do good works. So you and your theologians have it backwards. Being saved brings about good works. Good works do not bring about being saved.

 

? Who's Faith is it that saves?

 

Peace and Blessings

"Faith without works is dead".This is scripturally true.However its believing in your heart,from the depth of your soul and not just in your head because you want to escape the torments of hell

that Jesus, who is God, died for our sins on the cross and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Believe this and you will be saved, no matter what! all it takes is simple faith,faith the size of a mustard seed.

How can I know for sure that I'm a Christian?

There is a scarcity of accurate Biblical thinking on this subject. Most people think it is very, very easy to know you are saved, or else they believe it is nearly impossible. Neither is true. It is easier to GET saved than to know you are saved. The Bible says that, "Many will say, 'Lord, Lord,' and not enter into the kingdom of heaven." There will be pastors, deacons, and faithful church people who will be surprised to find themselves in hell.

The Bible gives ONE assurance of salvation. It is neither an experience nor a decision. It isn't something you do nor what you think you believe. It is a lifestyle characterized by INNER desires which are different than the world around us. These things either happen naturally or they do not happen at all (though I'm sure we can fake it well enough to fool ourselves ...just not anybody else).

1 John (near the end of the Bible) is a book written, "That you might KNOW that you have eternal life." In it are the five things that WILL CHANGE when you are saved and become a regular part of your life. You may be saved and not fit the bill exactly, but you can never be SURE you are saved until you do.

The first symptom of a true Christian is that they love the light. They love truth. They BELIEVE in God because they have found Him to be real and true NOT BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE THAT AS THEIR RELIGION!! They pursue accuracy in their thinking, purity in their heart, and goodness in their life. Where they fall down they freely admit it. They WALK IN LIGHT (1 John 1:5-10 Read it).

Secondly they OBEY GOD. This is not a requirement for salvation. Please understand that. This is a symptom of a saved person. I say symptom because it's not something you DO but something you ARE. You WANT to obey God! If a person asks me how much they can sin and still be a Christian, I have serious doubts if they are a Christian. Christians love God and wish to obey Him. If that's not your NATURE, than you probably aren't saved and never have been (1 John 2:3-6)

Third, true Christians love Christian people. Linus of peanuts was contemplating a career as a doctor but his sister told him he was unfit for that occupation because he didn't love mankind. "I do too love mankind," argued Linus pompously, then mumbled, "It's people I can't stand."

John says "Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness." We're family. "Do I have to go to Church to become a Christian? NO! But Church is a place you'll love to go if you become a true Christian."

The fourth symptom of a sterling Christian life is they hate sin and, in fact, find it impossible to go on sinning (1 John 3:4-10). There is two reasons for this. One is that you have joined the side of Jesus who died to save you from that sin. You have left the team of Satan who enslaved you in sin. Secondly God won't let you go on sinning if you are really His.

Lastly we know we live in God and He in us because He has given us His Spirit. if you don't feel the warmth and strength of the living God flowing inside of you, than you are probably not a Christian. Christianity is not a religion but a real relationship with the God who made you."

When you really believe and are saved you will find there is a REAL God who interacts with you, speaks to your heart, convicts you of sin, leads you in His path. Makes you feel warm inside when you draw near to Him and focus on His presence. You will FEEL the Spirit inside of you! And it's wonderful. If you have not had that experience than you probably don't really know Him. :shades:

[Trimdingman]

There is a whole world outside of the Bible. North American Aboriginals survived for 17,000 years without Christianity. They didn't know about it, and it didn't know about them. Of course, they had their own silly superstitions and rituals. Playing make believe and dreaming of fairies is an extension of childhood. Now, we have logical explanantions for once puzzling phenomena. Why do people still cling to religion?

Edited December 25, 2008 by Trimdingman

[Versa-Tech]

There is a whole world outside of the Bible. North American Aboriginals survived for 17,000 years without Christianity. They didn't know about it, and it didn't know about them. Of course, they had their own silly superstitions and rituals. Playing make believe and dreaming of fairies is an extension of childhood. Now, we have logical explanantions for once puzzling phenomena. Why do people still cling to religion?

To help them sleep at night :yup:

[Trimdingman]

They fear dying because of greed. They do not want to give up material posessions, so they dream up this better place where they will not need them. If they gradually give their possessions to the church, then dying will not be so hard. The poor have an easier death than the rich. Dying is as natural as birth. If there is something after death, it will not be dependent on belief in some foolishness.