Prepare

[Dadzee]

It seems I have truly misjudged the stance of the American people when it comes to the union workers of America. They hate us, plain and simple.

How the mindset of many has degraded from that of raising oneself and family to something better to that of dragging everyone else down to the subsistence wages so many are struggling with is beyond me, but it is my belief that this is going to continue far beyond the auto industry as corporations seek to destroy the power base of the working class.

I am not screaming panic just for the sake of some inner joy I derive at seeing the board suddenly awash with both negative and positive responses, or to give the conspiracy theorists their chance to post a few YouTube links, (although I agree with many of their ideas).

I am only hoping to get folks to really look around and see what is coming. I have, among other things, consolidated my phone/cable(now basic)/internet, refinanced and consolidated all debt into the latest 5.5 rate, confiscated credit cards, placed a ban on 4$ lattes/quickie WII game purchases, and other non essentials in order to get some cash in the bank. Even Christmas this year is going to be a subdued event.

Hopefully many of you have been conservative in your ways and no such scrambling is warranted, but for those of you who are lagging behind, I suggest you prepare for the worse rather than the better. The totter is going to teeter more than a bit further IMO before people get clued in on the corporate weenie being rammed up their posteriors as the working class is stripped of not only its wages, but more importantly its powerbase. Be friggin prepared!! or at least make sure your kids are going to be set, and have some great opportunities.

Having said all this, maybe it is a good thing. More people getting involved with their politicians, their unions, and educating their kids on how things can be if we are not diligent in our watchfulness of both is IMO all topside. Til then weather the storm and good luck to you.

[hendew_15]

It seems I have truly misjudged the stance of the American people when it comes to the union workers of America. They hate us, plain and simple.

How the mindset of many has degraded from that of raising oneself and family to something better to that of dragging everyone else down to the subsistence wages so many are struggling with is beyond me, but it is my belief that this is going to continue far beyond the auto industry as corporations seek to destroy the power base of the working class.

I am not screaming panic just for the sake of some inner joy I derive at seeing the board suddenly awash with both negative and positive responses, or to give the conspiracy theorists their chance to post a few YouTube links, (although I agree with many of their ideas).

I am only hoping to get folks to really look around and see what is coming. I have, among other things, consolidated my phone/cable(now basic)/internet, refinanced and consolidated all debt into the latest 5.5 rate, confiscated credit cards, placed a ban on 4$ lattes/quickie WII game purchases, and other non essentials in order to get some cash in the bank. Even Christmas this year is going to be a subdued event.

Hopefully many of you have been conservative in your ways and no such scrambling is warranted, but for those of you who are lagging behind, I suggest you prepare for the worse rather than the better. The totter is going to teeter more than a bit further IMO before people get clued in on the corporate weenie being rammed up their posteriors as the working class is stripped of not only its wages, but more importantly its powerbase. Be friggin prepared!! or at least make sure your kids are going to be set, and have some great opportunities.

Having said all this, maybe it is a good thing. More people getting involved with their politicians, their unions, and educating their kids on how things can be if we are not diligent in our watchfulness of both is IMO all topside. Til then weather the storm and good luck to you.

 

Dadzee I was cruising Youtube and ran across a vid of SNL that was rather hard to find that was un-named and I seen your comment on the bottom.Small interweb world.Good job laying the smackdown.

[Dadzee]

Dadzee I was cruising Youtube and ran across a vid of SNL that was rather hard to find that was un-named and I seen your comment on the bottom.Small interweb world.Good job laying the smackdown.

 

Thanks much hindew. Gets depressing when left leaning comedic types get it wrong. Bad enough every car/political blog out there, and I mean 99.999%, seems to despise us.

[lackanookey]

Thanks much hindew. Gets depressing when left leaning comedic types get it wrong. Bad enough every car/political blog out there, and I mean 99.999%, seems to despise us.

Poeple out there actually think that the UAW members will be the only ones to lose pay and benefits. They do not even begin to understand that their employer will soon be asking the same of them.

[CBGB]

Poeple out there actually think that the UAW members will be the only ones to lose pay and benefits. They do not even begin to understand that their employer will soon be asking the same of them.

You are so right.

[akirby]

Poeple out there actually think that the UAW members will be the only ones to lose pay and benefits. They do not even begin to understand that their employer will soon be asking the same of them.

 

That's what you folks don't seem to understand. The rest of the working force in America has been operating this way for decades. Wages and benefits are set by the market. If you have skills that are valued you get higher wages and benefits. If your skills are no longer needed you learn new ones or get left behind. If there are more skilled workers than available jobs then wages go down. If there are more jobs available than qualified applicants then wages go up as companies bid for the few remaining workers. If health care is part of your compensation and the cost of health care to the company goes way up then you have to pay more of your share.

 

Why do companies pay market rates? Because if they don't then their competitors will and they'll take all the best workers. If you excel at your job then you are more valuable. Companies don't need contracts to force them to pay competitive wages and benefits - their competition does that.

 

In order to be competitive companies have to adjust their workforce to market conditions. If you're growing you can add employees, if you're not growing or profits are down then you have to downsize. Nobody likes it (including the companies) but it's necessary. You can't compete if you have billions more overhead than the competition.

 

Auto workers and the UAW need to realize that they only succeed if Ford and GM succeed. They can't succeed with things like JSP because the competition doesn't have it. Things that were ok when the big 3 had most of the market will simply not work now.

 

The way to ensure more UAW jobs is to make UAW plants competitive with non-UAW plants and non-U.S. plants. Toyota and Honda build cars here because it's cheaper than importing them. There's no reason why Ford and GM can't do the same but it requires the UAW to stop making unreasonable contract demands and to start working with Ford and GM.

 

Some of you get it but some of you never will. Those who don't get it will be along shortly to start the name calling and insults and say things like "I don't care if the company goes under, we're not giving back anything!".

[Dale143]

That's what you folks don't seem to understand. The rest of the working force in America has been operating this way for decades. Wages and benefits are set by the market. If you have skills that are valued you get higher wages and benefits. If your skills are no longer needed you learn new ones or get left behind. If there are more skilled workers than available jobs then wages go down. If there are more jobs available than qualified applicants then wages go up as companies bid for the few remaining workers. If health care is part of your compensation and the cost of health care to the company goes way up then you have to pay more of your share.

 

Why do companies pay market rates? Because if they don't then their competitors will and they'll take all the best workers. If you excel at your job then you are more valuable. Companies don't need contracts to force them to pay competitive wages and benefits - their competition does that.

 

In order to be competitive companies have to adjust their workforce to market conditions. If you're growing you can add employees, if you're not growing or profits are down then you have to downsize. Nobody likes it (including the companies) but it's necessary. You can't compete if you have billions more overhead than the competition.

 

Auto workers and the UAW need to realize that they only succeed if Ford and GM succeed. They can't succeed with things like JSP because the competition doesn't have it. Things that were ok when the big 3 had most of the market will simply not work now.

 

The way to ensure more UAW jobs is to make UAW plants competitive with non-UAW plants and non-U.S. plants. Toyota and Honda build cars here because it's cheaper than importing them. There's no reason why Ford and GM can't do the same but it requires the UAW to stop making unreasonable contract demands and to start working with Ford and GM.

 

Some of you get it but some of you never will. Those who don't get it will be along shortly to start the name calling and insults and say things like "I don't care if the company goes under, we're not giving back anything!".

There's a mole on blue oval everyone.

Don't listen to this garbage.There are men in the past that have died to insure good union contracts and this country would wither away like a log smoldering on a campfire without them.

Dude ,The slow dismantling of the UAW would be like slowly riping out the hearts of every one of us that have made these jobs our our lives.You don't seam to realize how many auto workers have already filed for bankruptcy or have gone into foreclosure with the last 8-10 years of giving back.Enough is enough!

All this bull about the auto workers having to give up there toys and going on vacations is bull! I raised 5 kids and i have no toys .I still have most of the furniture i bought 20-25 years ago.And as for vacations..whats a vacation? Our goal was to put all we had into our kids and reap the rewards later.Well now is later and our lives instead of getting those toys and vacations has now gotten to the point of total collapse.Any more giving back will be the end of us financially.We will become part of this country's burden because the house we worked so hard for will be pushed into foreclosure.The savings is already almost gone and 401k...thats a joke I mite as well close that account its an embarrassment.

Ford has already said we don't really need this loan and we would survive without it.However i feel we are being forced into this because we are one union with Chrysler and gm so we have to do this for them.In return ford gets its share of the loan and a little better chance to succeed.

I don't know if you are a union brother or not but you need to choose sides ,or have you already.My side is for the thousands of union brothers an sisters who have given there blood sweat and tears to produce quality vehicles,and to raise our families through hard times and good times just like any other American family.What ever happened to the American dream.Oh and that myth that auto workers are uneducated comes from uneducated people.Do some research and you will see the auto industry's blue collar workers have left good jobs that they have gone to college to get for a better paying more secure job at ford,gm,Chrysler.I personally know plumbers,carpenters machinist welders,all who work on the line.And i myself am a certified machinist that has served in the armed forces.Thats what got me my job at ford.

Thats enough for now,i just woke up and my coffee is getting cold. :reading:

[akirby]

I didn't mention toys or vacations. I see no reason for big wage cuts since the transplant wages are almost the same. But Ford needs more flexibility to control costs including health care and the ability to respond quickly to changes in consumer demand including plant shutdowns and product changes.

 

The current contract was based on a retail market where Ford, GM and Chrysler dominated, had very little competition from non-UAW mfrs and could afford to spread the wealth to the workers. However, that environment is long gone and neither Ford nor GM can continue to operate under the same rules and stay in business. That should be very obvious by now.

 

I'm just trying to get you all to understand the reality of the situation and recognize that things can't continue the way they have been for the last 20 years. Refusing to acknowledge that is a recipe for disaster.

[jm2607]

I didn't mention toys or vacations. I see no reason for big wage cuts since the transplant wages are almost the same. But Ford needs more flexibility to control costs including health care and the ability to respond quickly to changes in consumer demand including plant shutdowns and product changes.

 

The current contract was based on a retail market where Ford, GM and Chrysler dominated, had very little competition from non-UAW mfrs and could afford to spread the wealth to the workers. However, that environment is long gone and neither Ford nor GM can continue to operate under the same rules and stay in business. That should be very obvious by now.

 

I'm just trying to get you all to understand the reality of the situation and recognize that things can't continue the way they have been for the last 20 years. Refusing to acknowledge that is a recipe for disaster.

Are you a Ford Employee??

[Twincam Harley]

Prepare for what?

[allin]

That's what you folks don't seem to understand. The rest of the working force in America has been operating this way for decades. Wages and benefits are set by the market. If you have skills that are valued you get higher wages and benefits. If your skills are no longer needed you learn new ones or get left behind. If there are more skilled workers than available jobs then wages go down. If there are more jobs available than qualified applicants then wages go up as companies bid for the few remaining workers. If health care is part of your compensation and the cost of health care to the company goes way up then you have to pay more of your share.

 

Why do companies pay market rates? Because if they don't then their competitors will and they'll take all the best workers. If you excel at your job then you are more valuable. Companies don't need contracts to force them to pay competitive wages and benefits - their competition does that.

 

In order to be competitive companies have to adjust their workforce to market conditions. If you're growing you can add employees, if you're not growing or profits are down then you have to downsize. Nobody likes it (including the companies) but it's necessary. You can't compete if you have billions more overhead than the competition.

 

Auto workers and the UAW need to realize that they only succeed if Ford and GM succeed. They can't succeed with things like JSP because the competition doesn't have it. Things that were ok when the big 3 had most of the market will simply not work now.

 

The way to ensure more UAW jobs is to make UAW plants competitive with non-UAW plants and non-U.S. plants. Toyota and Honda build cars here because it's cheaper than importing them. There's no reason why Ford and GM can't do the same but it requires the UAW to stop making unreasonable contract demands and to start working with Ford and GM.

 

Some of you get it but some of you never will. Those who don't get it will be along shortly to start the name calling and insults and say things like "I don't care if the company goes under, we're not giving back anything!".

Why do you keep posting here when you know it is employees only and you are not an employee? You stated in another thread you aren't an employee.

[Trimdingman]

That's what you folks don't seem to understand. The rest of the working force in America has been operating this way for decades. Wages and benefits are set by the market. If you have skills that are valued you get higher wages and benefits. If your skills are no longer needed you learn new ones or get left behind. If there are more skilled workers than available jobs then wages go down. If there are more jobs available than qualified applicants then wages go up as companies bid for the few remaining workers. If health care is part of your compensation and the cost of health care to the company goes way up then you have to pay more of your share.

 

Why do companies pay market rates? Because if they don't then their competitors will and they'll take all the best workers. If you excel at your job then you are more valuable. Companies don't need contracts to force them to pay competitive wages and benefits - their competition does that.

 

In order to be competitive companies have to adjust their workforce to market conditions. If you're growing you can add employees, if you're not growing or profits are down then you have to downsize. Nobody likes it (including the companies) but it's necessary. You can't compete if you have billions more overhead than the competition.

 

Auto workers and the UAW need to realize that they only succeed if Ford and GM succeed. They can't succeed with things like JSP because the competition doesn't have it. Things that were ok when the big 3 had most of the market will simply not work now.

 

The way to ensure more UAW jobs is to make UAW plants competitive with non-UAW plants and non-U.S. plants. Toyota and Honda build cars here because it's cheaper than importing them. There's no reason why Ford and GM can't do the same but it requires the UAW to stop making unreasonable contract demands and to start working with Ford and GM.

 

Some of you get it but some of you never will. Those who don't get it will be along shortly to start the name calling and insults and say things like "I don't care if the company goes under, we're not giving back anything!".

 

I think that Ford employees know a little bit more about what is going on within the Ford Motor Company than some outsider. There are things that we know, but have to bite our tongues and take the ignorant comments rather than post them on the internet. Come back in a year, and if either Ford or GM has gone under, or we are working for peanuts, you can say "I told you so". The auto industry is the barometer of the economy. It is the first to go down and the first to recover. We are very familiar with the ebb and flow of capitalism and free markets.

[lquidspine]

Auto workers and the UAW need to realize that they only succeed if Ford and GM succeed. They can't succeed with things like JSP because the competition doesn't have it. Things that were ok when the big 3 had most of the market will simply not work now.

 

The way to ensure more UAW jobs is to make UAW plants competitive with non-UAW plants and non-U.S. plants. Toyota and Honda build cars here because it's cheaper than importing them. There's no reason why Ford and GM can't do the same but it requires the UAW to stop making unreasonable contract demands and to start working with Ford and GM.

I am almost getting sick of posting this link but here it goes again and again *link click me*.

[jm2607]

I am almost getting sick of posting this link but here it goes again and again *link click me*.

Dont get sick of it----------- you need to post tht everywhere you can! Everyone needs to read that!

[akirby]

I am almost getting sick of posting this link but here it goes again and again *link click me*.

 

Every successful business does that. Toyota has every expectation that those workers will be needed again in 3 months because they are maintaining or growing market share. I would expect Ford to do the same thing - voluntarily. But that's not the same thing as a long term (1 year or longer) reduction in capacity which is what Ford has experienced the last few years.

 

It's fine as long as the company decides when to do it based on the needs of the business. It's not fine to make it mandatory or to keep it longer than a few months.

 

Feel free to continue the discussion here outside the Employee Forum.

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...showtopic=28472

[stormwatcher]

Why is it that only the AUTOMAKERS are being asked as employees to give concessions in this bailout bonanza? Did we scrutinize the wages and benefits of AIG and CITIBANK. Nope, they just got their money. Did we disect the way they pay their employees, retiress, etc. Did we ask the employees of those Company's if we could read their employee handbooks and decide how their company should compensate them? Did we give them money then watch their Executive Leadership go on retreats as a smack in the face to the American Public??

All UAW employees should be asking their Congress Rep and Senator this question. Why is our government hell bent and determined to beat up the blue collar worker, the UNION worker. This appears to be a union busting event.

[Ckr01]

 

Hang in there fellas !

 

The feds are asking too much!! New hires come in at a LOWER wage?, Give back holidays?, Take away the job bank? Take a pay cut? Thank god

I retired , becouse I sure as hell would be getting time off for instigating !! This is just pure B.S. WE DID NOT CAUSE ANY OF THIS TO HAPPEN

We have not recieved a contract raise in 5 years, we gave back every year. How many of you are close to loseing your homes...cars, or familys?

Think hard, VERY HARD NO MORE GIVEBACKS.... not only now, but this affects your retirment, who is going to fund it?

[chitownforddude]

Why is it that only the AUTOMAKERS are being asked as employees to give concessions in this bailout bonanza? Did we scrutinize the wages and benefits of AIG and CITIBANK. Nope, they just got their money. Did we disect the way they pay their employees, retiress, etc. Did we ask the employees of those Company's if we could read their employee handbooks and decide how their company should compensate them? Did we give them money then watch their Executive Leadership go on retreats as a smack in the face to the American Public??

All UAW employees should be asking their Congress Rep and Senator this question. Why is our government hell bent and determined to beat up the blue collar worker, the UNION worker. This appears to be a union busting event.

 

I don't think it is the unions, just the UAW they want to take down. This was a GREAT country & we got that way thru HARD WORK by the middle class. Does anyone remember the wars we fought to get to where we are? WHO do you think made everything from the tanks, aircraft, troop carriers, guns, ammo, etc. etc. It was the auto companies that stopped production & re-tooled for the war effort & supported our men & women so we could live the way we do.... We WERE the manufacturing POWERHOUSE of the WORLD & it took people like you & me to get that way..... I remember when you got a pat on the back when when you went into the trades, be it a machinist, sheetmetal, carpenter, ironworker, pipefitter, not any more, people look at you & say "are you crazy" you'll get you hands dirty!!!!!! They just want to destroy the middle class & have a bunch of ZOMBIES wandering around... I just think it's a sad day when our politicians don't even see it.

 

Just my $.02

[J-150]

Why is it that only the AUTOMAKERS are being asked as employees to give concessions in this bailout bonanza? Did we scrutinize the wages and benefits of AIG and CITIBANK. Nope, they just got their money. Did we disect the way they pay their employees, retiress, etc. Did we ask the employees of those Company's if we could read their employee handbooks and decide how their company should compensate them? Did we give them money then watch their Executive Leadership go on retreats as a smack in the face to the American Public??

All UAW employees should be asking their Congress Rep and Senator this question. Why is our government hell bent and determined to beat up the blue collar worker, the UNION worker. This appears to be a union busting event.

 

 

 

easy answer.

 

the senators on the finance committee that are making the D3 jump through hoops are southern US senators that helped the transplants with tax benefits to locate in the south. You are also aware that these southern states are anti-union.

 

it is a conflict of interest. the same senators saying "let the market decide" did the exact opposite in assisting their states to extend money to secure these foreign automakers.

 

 

too bad that Big Al, Nardelli and Wagoner aren't outing these shady politicians.

Edited December 3, 2008 by J-150

[jm2607]

Every successful business does that. Toyota has every expectation that those workers will be needed again in 3 months because they are maintaining or growing market share. I would expect Ford to do the same thing - voluntarily. But that's not the same thing as a long term (1 year or longer) reduction in capacity which is what Ford has experienced the last few years.

 

It's fine as long as the company decides when to do it based on the needs of the business. It's not fine to make it mandatory or to keep it longer than a few months.

 

Feel free to continue the discussion here outside the Employee Forum.

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...showtopic=28472

You never answered my question. ARE you an employee? If not, QUIT posting on this site.

[allin]

You never answered my question. ARE you an employee? If not, QUIT posting on this site.

akirby isn't an employee. He/she said in another thread he/she just happened in and was told then it is employee only. I don't want to read or see akirby's opinion here, we can go anywhere on the net and have the thoughts of those that don't work in the industry rammed down our throats.

Edited December 3, 2008 by allin

[akirby]

akirby isn't an employee. He/she said in another thread he/she just happened in and was told then it is employee only. I don't want to read or see akirby's opinion here, we can go anywhere on the net and have the thoughts of those that don't work in the industry rammed down our throats.

 

That's why I gave you the link to continue the discussion outside the employee forum. I'm not here to bash anyone, just trying to have a logical conversation and get some of you to understand reality - as futile as that may be.

[jerzey]

That's why I gave you the link to continue the discussion outside the employee forum. I'm not here to bash anyone, just trying to have a logical conversation and get some of you to understand reality - as futile as that may be.

 

Have a logical conversation with my NUTS. We have enough to deal with, without some cum bucket looking for drips.Get lost... Stick your link up your ass.. it's probably porn anyway! Pervert.

[allin]

That's why I gave you the link to continue the discussion outside the employee forum. I'm not here to bash anyone, just trying to have a logical conversation and get some of you to understand reality - as futile as that may be.

Don't talk down to us. We are very aware of the problems of our industry. Like I said we can go anywhere and get the opinions of the public. This is a place for us to come, discuss and read among ourselves what is going on without the input of the public. If it were open to the general public I wouldn't have a problem with your posts, but like the notice at the top of the forum states This Forum is for Ford Employees Only!

Edited December 4, 2008 by allin

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

I'm not here to bash anyone, just trying to have a logical conversation and get some of you to understand reality - as futile as that may be.

 

We are not interested in your interpretation of reality.