Here's an Idea - treat the UAW as an outsourcer

[akirby]

I've spent several years negotiating and writing outsourcing contracts. The UAW contracts are basically outsourced work except the workers remain Ford or GM or Chrysler employees. So here is a novel idea: let the UAW create their own company and outsource all of the current UAW workers to that new company. Nothing would change initially except the Ford/GM/Chrysler employees would now be UAW employees. And let's face it - that's how most of them view themselves anyway.

 

The contract itself would specify a flat rate fee for a specific type and amount of work. Those fees would have built in raises (cost of living, inflation, etc.) and/or cost reductions over time (based on improved efficiency) but that's the only rate that the mfrs would pay. The UAW itself would be responsible for hiring and firing, compensation and benefits. Because all of the workers now work for the same company (whether they physically do work at Ford, GM or Chrysler) the UAW would be able to move employees between plants and even between companies as needed to meet demands. The workers would just be moving from one account to the other which happens all the time in outsourcing deals. That's one of the big benefits.

 

If the UAW wants to provide 100% free health care to their employees or they want to establish a jobs bank - who cares? Go for it. It has no effect on what Ford, GM and Chrysler pay for their services. It also insulates the companies from rises in health care costs or other employee related expenses including pensions, etc. It would also allow the UAW to offer their services to transplants or even totally different industries that need similar skills. And any difference between what they charge and their costs go back into their own pockets.

 

The companies are relieved of the employee burdens (wages, benefits, pensions, health care, etc.) and get a much more flexible work force with the ability to increase or decrease the number of workers as dictated by the market. The UAW gets to provide their own health care, wages and other benefits without having to negotiate with anyone. And the workers get many more employment opportunities across 3 companies, not just 1.

 

Sounds like a great idea to me.

[TStag]

How is that a good deal for UAW workers? Or even the UAW? They would need to be pretty dumb to buy that one.

[NickF1011]

How is that a good deal for UAW workers? Or even the UAW? They would need to be pretty dumb to buy that one.

 

It's not too far a stretch really. After all, the UAW will be assuming the role of health care provider for itself soon. I don't see it happening myself, but it's not like the UAW isn't already taking some steps in that direction already.

[akirby]

How is that a good deal for UAW workers? Or even the UAW? They would need to be pretty dumb to buy that one.

 

1. The ability to get a job at any Ford, GM or Chrysler plant and to move between them without changing employers. And potentially others in the future (even non-automotive jobs).

2. The ability to set your own compensation and benefits. If the UAW thinks the job bank, free healthcare and other benefits are necessary then they can give that to their employees without having to bargain for it.

 

What's not good about it?

Edited December 3, 2008 by akirby

[Simpleman]

I've spent several years negotiating and writing outsourcing contracts. The UAW contracts are basically outsourced work except the workers remain Ford or GM or Chrysler employees. So here is a novel idea: let the UAW create their own company and outsource all of the current UAW workers to that new company. Nothing would change initially except the Ford/GM/Chrysler employees would now be UAW employees. And let's face it - that's how most of them view themselves anyway.

 

The contract itself would specify a flat rate fee for a specific type and amount of work. Those fees would have built in raises (cost of living, inflation, etc.) and/or cost reductions over time (based on improved efficiency) but that's the only rate that the mfrs would pay. The UAW itself would be responsible for hiring and firing, compensation and benefits. Because all of the workers now work for the same company (whether they physically do work at Ford, GM or Chrysler) the UAW would be able to move employees between plants and even between companies as needed to meet demands. The workers would just be moving from one account to the other which happens all the time in outsourcing deals. That's one of the big benefits.

 

If the UAW wants to provide 100% free health care to their employees or they want to establish a jobs bank - who cares? Go for it. It has no effect on what Ford, GM and Chrysler pay for their services. It also insulates the companies from rises in health care costs or other employee related expenses including pensions, etc. It would also allow the UAW to offer their services to transplants or even totally different industries that need similar skills. And any difference between what they charge and their costs go back into their own pockets.

 

The companies are relieved of the employee burdens (wages, benefits, pensions, health care, etc.) and get a much more flexible work force with the ability to increase or decrease the number of workers as dictated by the market. The UAW gets to provide their own health care, wages and other benefits without having to negotiate with anyone. And the workers get many more employment opportunities across 3 companies, not just 1.

 

Sounds like a great idea to me.

 

That's pretty close to how other unions operate. In the I.B.E.W. if the company needs a certain amount of employees it needs, it calls the hall and requests that number of people and they are sent out to the job site. The workers still get paid by checks directly from the company, but bennies come from the union.

 

The company and union agree on a wage package, lets say $45.00 an hour. The worker gets a certain percentage of that and the remainder goes the union to take care of health care and retirement funds.

 

I don't see why the UAW couldn't do something like that. I posted on here shortly after getting a new job with a different union and posted how there bennies worked. MAN, the uaw guys had a fit! I told them in my new union (I.L.A.), the health care coverage would increase with the amount of time put in throughout the year. What this does is to keep the amount of people laying out of work down to a minimum. If you don't work, you don't get a good level of insurance. Sounded good to me and it is. My health care coverage is on par if not better than the uaws and the company I work for is not saddled with the cost.

[Extreme4x4]

It would never happen.

 

The UAW would be unable to demonize the companies that way................... and perpetuate the us against them mentality......................and thus, would only have themselves to blame for their station in life.

 

That would never fly.

 

aKirby, you have spent enough time on the Employee forum, you ought to know that.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Extreme4x4

[TStag]

1. The ability to get a job at any Ford, GM or Chrysler plant and to move between them without changing employers. And potentially others in the future (even non-automotive jobs).

2. The ability to set your own compensation and benefits. If the UAW thinks the job bank, free healthcare and other benefits are necessary then they can give that to their employees without having to bargain for it.

 

What's not good about it?

 

Aren't you kind of forgetting the fact that the UAW would be competing with workers without healthcare benefits and compensation? Or have I missed something?

 

Unions only function if they control most of the workforce of a company. The minute Ford and co could get away from the UAW then they would. It might work if you could persuade Toyota, Nissan, Honda, etc workers to join the UAW......

[akirby]

Aren't you kind of forgetting the fact that the UAW would be competing with workers without healthcare benefits and compensation? Or have I missed something?

 

No, I did not forget that at all. And I never said there was no downside for the workers - I purposely only highlighted the immediate benefits.

 

Now here is what would actually happen over time.

 

Plants get idled which reduces revenue. UAW puts workers in the jobs bank and continues to pay them for a few months. Health care and cost of other benefits go up while revenue stays the same.

 

Now the UAW is faced with reduced profits or even a negative cash flow situation, so they would do what every other private business in America has to do - cut costs. They would have to resort to layoffs and benefits reduction. They would be forced to realign their resources to match their revenue streams.

 

OTOH if they were able to go out and get new contracts with other automakers or even non-automotive industries then they could increase benefits and add workers. So they bear the risk of reduced revenue but they also get the rewards from increased revenue.

 

In other words, if the UAW was forced to put their money where their mouth is and actually be financially responsible for all of the things they're demanding from the mfrs then you'd see a totally different attitude and behavior.

 

It's really easy for my daughter to continually beg and whine for more stuff because she's not paying the bill. It's amazing how much more responsible and logical people become when it's THEIR money on the line.

 

So I say put up or shut up and stop whining about what someone else is paying for.

[TStag]

Hmmm would love to see you try and persuade the UAW.

[Bored of Pisteon]

They're in a business for itself anyway. So what would be the problem? Oh, yes... That $1 Billion (that's a billion I said) strike fund! How would that play out if that had to be used?

[TStag]

They're in a business for itself anyway. So what would be the problem? Oh, yes... That $1 Billion (that's a billion I said) strike fund! How would that play out if that had to be used?

 

Some very wishfull thinking going on here. It's much more realisitic to make all the Foreign brands in the USA give their employees the same deal that the UAW gets for Ford employees. This way you would have a more level playing field and better of employees....

[Deanh]

Some very wishfull thinking going on here. It's much more realisitic to make all the Foreign brands in the USA give their employees the same deal that the UAW gets for Ford employees. This way you would have a more level playing field and better of employees....

wouldn't matter if they were still operating at a loss...........

[Ralph Greene]

Great idea. That way the UAW would very soon be gone. If Ford and GM wish to compete successfully against the Hyundai's of the world, they have to have same labor costs. They would also soon be free to move south also. Terrific idea.

[Pioneer]

If Ford and GM wish to compete successfully against the Hyundai's of the world, they have to have same labor costs.

 

 

After the VEBA takes effect, the UAW will be within a few dollars of transplant wages including benefits. I believe the numbers at the hearings were $39 for a transplant worker, $43 after the VEBA takes effect in 2010.