LSFan00 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I think California is going to be too busy dealing with other issues to worry about stupid CO2 tailpipe regulations for now. Fighting evil CO2 emissions is one thing when you can afford to force citizens to spend money on HOV lane tags for hybrids etc. and it's another when your economy is in a "gold rush" collapse. I personally wish they could just secede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 This topic title is loaded. It's sort of interesting that there were cries for loans but when Bush approved it, it's suddenly a negative thing ... we all know many of the bad decisions the guy made, but geeze, give the guy some credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) This topic title is loaded. It's sort of interesting that there were cries for loans but when Bush approved it, it's suddenly a negative thing ... we all know many of the bad decisions the guy made, but geeze, give the guy some credit. FJM is British. He won't credit us with anything, except destroying the UK's domestic auto industry. Sorry, Jelly, had to edit your subtitle. Edited December 19, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) Again, this money is coming out of the TARP TAX PAYERS MONEY fund which was ALREADY funded. And I don't think Cerberus is laughing at anybody. If you ran Chrysler, would you be laughing? No. Why? Because they've just acquired more debt that may or may not help them in the end. Cerberus stands to lose a ton of money if Chrysler folds. If they do, the government liquidates them and gets back their money. Yay for the taxpayer. If Chrysler doesn't fold, great! They pay back their loans then plus interest. Again, yay for the taxpayer. No harm, no foul. Would taxpayers be happier paying for millions (or even billions) in unemployment benefits for laid off Chrysler workers and sharing the burden of a smaller tax base since those workers would also no longer be paying income taxes? I sure wouldn't be happier in that case. Chrysler are a lost cause at the moment Nick, Bushie is an idiot if he thinks everybody will start buying their cars in the next three months, the time limit he as imposed on them to turn things around, they are still stuck with the same cars nobody wants what will change Nick? They have got to build the cars folk want to buy it really is that simple and its not boring dull bland gas guzzling cars, so it looks to me if the poor ole tax payer will be saddled with more even tax bailout burden & less over taxed disosable with less money to spend on car loans or new cars in the next 3 months when the idiot Bushies fix Crysler time limit expires it just can't be done in 3 months. Cerberus are solvent their money should be used to bailout Chrysler they should be fixing them with their money they are solvent. Edited December 19, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 ahh but it is. I'm sure every business is taking a hit. Fast-food sales down? gas sales down? To equate today with the 1920's: Cities were starting to spring up MAINLY because of manufacturing, And that was because of auto's taking hold. People moved off the farms, and sold the land and moved to the cities for a better life. then that life dropped out from under them. and they had no place to go, but stand in lines. Today that fall off in manufacturing is start to trickle thru-out the economy. and it has declined to one of the lowest levels in GDP ever. because of that smaller businesses are just now starting to feel the trickle down and their letting go and reducing. I'm afraid if we just maintain the economy at this rate we have right now, THRU '09 we will have escaped the worst, But you won't hear about it for a good 6 to 9 months. That's how it's always been, even in the depths the gov. shouts everything is fine. Demanding viability in 3 months?? I think after Jan 20, their will come a new loan package out of Washington with a better plan than this, W has NOT had a workable plan for the last 8 years. Yes, the worst of the recession has not hit yet. I would suspect the worst will be here by summer of 2009. The stock market is now having bear market rallies and will test new lows sometime next year. We are still in for a wild ride down. Unemployment downside still has a way to go. January will be grim with lots of bankrupticies personal and business. When the stock market gets through the bear market rallies and tests new lows, and then starts to perk up, I believe the market will be signalling a better economy sometime late 2009 or early 2010. I think it will be 2011 before recession talk starts to subside. This recession will be the deepest and the longest since WW2 era. It will be even worse than the early 80's recession and in many ways already is in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) Chrysler are a lost cause at the moment Nick, Bushie is an idiot if he thinks everybody will start buying their cars in the next three months, the time limit he as imposed on them to turn things around, they are still stuck with the same cars nobody wants what will change Nick? They have got to build the cars folk want to buy it really is that simple and its not boring dull bland gas guzzling cars, so it looks to me if the poor ole tax payer will be saddled with more even tax bailout burden & less over taxed disosable with less money to spend on car loans or new cars in the next 3 months when the idiot Bushies fix Crysler time limit expires it just can't be done in 3 months. Cerberus are solvent their money should be used to bailout Chrysler they should be fixing them with their money they are solvent. Umm..did you see something in the legislation about a tax increase on Americans? I sure didn't. So I don't see how this is "increasing tax burdens" on anyone at the moment. And well, if Chrysler can't turn it around, the government takes back its money. So where exactly is the "burden" here you are referring to? And I don't think anyone is suddenly expecting people to jump up and down and buy cars from GM and Chrysler like never before over the next three months. That's not the point of the deadline. If you can't understand that, I'm not going to try explaining it to you. Yes, the worst of the recession has not hit yet. I would suspect the worst will be here by summer of 2009. The stock market is now having bear market rallies and will test new lows sometime next year. We are still in for a wild ride down. Unemployment downside still has a way to go. January will be grim with lots of bankrupticies personal and business. When the stock market gets through the bear market rallies and tests new lows, and then starts to perk up, I believe the market will be signalling a better economy sometime late 2009 or early 2010. I think it will be 2011 before recession talk starts to subside. This recession will be the deepest and the longest since WW2 era. It will be even worse than the early 80's recession and in many ways already is in different ways. Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day? Edited December 19, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) FJM is British. He won't credit us with anything, except destroying the UK's domestic auto industry. Sorry, Jelly, had to edit your subtitle. No problem you spend most of your time editing most of my posts l am used to it Nick Who cares if Bushie uses the taxpayer to bail out a SOLVENT Cerberus, you will ony have to fork out another $17 billion in 3 months time, l wont be paying a dime Edited December 19, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 No problem you spend most of your time editing most of my posts l am used to it Nick I've edited maybe three of your posts ever. Quit your whining. Who cares if Bushie uses the taxpayer to bail out a SOLVENT Cerberus, you will ony have to fork out another $17 billion in 3 months time, l wont be paying a dime You didn't read any of the specifics of the loan agreement, did you? If you did, you would know that there is no more money coming (in fact, there would be the exact opposite -- a repossession of the loan) unless Chrysler and GM can show they have viable business models. That is, of course, unless the "world's saviour" Barack Obama changes the terms of the deal. Of course, even if he does, I'm sure you'll level that blame on Bush anyway. And again, they are giving a loan to Chrysler, not Cerberus, just as they are giving a loan to General Motors, not GM's shareholders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Chrysler would have a lot of success if they let them sell the Mercedes Diesel models they're only allowed to export today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Chrysler would have a lot of success if they let them sell the Mercedes Diesel models they're only allowed to export today. Which awesome-selling diesel car currently available in the U.S. do you base that on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) I've edited maybe three of your posts ever. Quit your whining. That is, of course, unless the "world's saviour" Barack Obama changes the terms of the deal. Of course, even if he does, I'm sure you'll level that blame on Bush anyway. Good to see moderators are not bias Barrack Obama "Worlds savior" :beerchug: we agree on something at last Nick. Edited December 19, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Good to see moderators are not bias Barrack Obama "Worlds savior" :beerchug: we agree on something at last Nick. Moderators aren't supposed to be robots, and don't expect me to act like one. And keep your beer chugging to yourself. You and the rest of the world will eventually be just as disillusioned with "The One" as you are with Bush. Anyone who includes Hillary Clinton and Tom Daschle in an administration promoting "change" can't be taken seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Well, this should be interesting... Now get can see Ford put a legitimate ass-whooping on the desolate 2 :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Well, this should be interesting... Now get can see Ford put a legitimate ass-whooping on the desolate 2 :happy feet: Now get can see?????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I've edited maybe three of your posts ever. Quit your whining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Just a few minutes ago the all St Journal announced the Union will ask the Obama bunch to reverse the wage and work rule goals of this loan plan. Since the terms are non binding, he can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) Moderators aren't supposed to be robots, and don't expect me to act like one. Your a Bushie robot http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/3...is_a_robot.html Edited December 19, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 And the bond holders have to agree with a stock for debt swap. Not likely to happen. The BS has started. A Prestructured bankruptcy will still be required to fix this mess. Why wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) Why all the bailouts? To PREVENT another 1930's era depression from happening. And no, I didn't buy the "Yes we can" video. His whole administration amounts to a joke already based on his promise of "change" during his campaign. His cabinet is full of Washington insiders. Expect more of the same. Now...back to the topic at hand -- WILL THIS WORK??? in my mind Chryslers done...NO product of ANY viable numbers will be sold, or should I say CAN be sold to attain overall profitability....DONE!...this $ for Chrysler will just enable Cerebus time to find a buyer.....can anyone say hello nissan?.....And this I find curious....13 bill to Chrysler, only 4 to GM...where did the decisions of the cut amount ome from?.........or whos not to say GM and Chrysler will merge?????? Edited December 19, 2008 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Your a Bushie robot Hardly. I'm just not an Obamatron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keoni Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 This topic title is loaded. It's sort of interesting that there were cries for loans but when Bush approved it, it's suddenly a negative thing ... we all know many of the bad decisions the guy made, but geeze, give the guy some credit. I am not a Bush fan but I will give him credit for this. I'm fairly liberal (am I allowed to say that here?) and I get PISSED off every time I hear that Detroit does not deserve a bailout. An industry that employs millions, directly and indirectly, does not deserve a pittance as compared to the financial industry? Greedy bank executives push sub-prime loans and get a free pass. I have banked with WAMU since I was 16 years old. I went to college in Seattle and have pride for Seattle companies only to see that a Seattle giant get gobbled up by CHASE for less then 2 billion. Hey DC, maybe you should have sold it for more. Meanwhile, the robots of this country believe that Detroit should die because their cars are crap... really? I did not realize this was the 80s. Geez, I want to continue my rant but I need to take my dog to the dog park... really people, Detroit is a bastion of American ingenuity, not banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 Pony Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Just a few minutes ago the all St Journal announced the Union will ask the Obama bunch to reverse the wage and work rule goals of this loan plan. Since the terms are non binding, he can do that. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Hardly. I'm just not an Obamatron. Come to think of it nobody could build a robot as bad as Bushie, that would be pretty damm near impossible Why does Laura not feed Bushie Nick? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=keFIWob8NM4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I get PISSED off every time I hear that Detroit does not deserve a bailout. An industry that employs millions, directly and indirectly, does not deserve a pittance as compared to the financial industry? I'm right there with you on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Jelly, every time you use the term "bushie" I lose more respect for you. I would think most Americans are fed up with his decisions but give it a break will you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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