Where's the Bronco

[therealmrmustang]

Face it, there is never going to be another real Bronco. Ford doesn't have the resources or the heart to commit to something like that. A Raptor based off an existing, best selling platform is one thing but they don't really have a small, body on frame chassis that they seem willing to invest in. The Ranger is the closest thing they have and I don't think real off-road enthusiasts want another Bronco II. The only real hope would be if the next gen "world" Ranger is capable enough to support a shortened wheelbase SUV. If current trends are any indication it will be even less capable than the current US Ranger. Good reason for guys like me to hold onto our old first gen Broncos. There is an amazing amount of aftermarket support for the Early Broncos not unlike the classic Mustangs. You can literally build a brand new one from a catalog and that even includes a complete, boxed frame and the entire body. You can build a steel body like the original or a complete fiberglass body either way using all new parts.

 

You're probably right...

[the_spaniard]

I know that I'm being overly optimistic. I'm just getting tired of looking at all of those Wranglers with their bumper stickers... "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand."

 

I'm not sure that the GTO debacle could possibly be worse than a weenie Bronco. A uni-body, FWD/AWD Bronco would be the worse kind defamation. At least the GTO was still a decent muscle car. I think the *cough*Charger*cough* was more ridiculous.

 

I am a huge fan of the original Bronco. The original was sacred. I hated the second-gen though.

 

Yeah, my beef with the GTO was pretty much everyone's issue. The performance was there, but they put it in a Grand Prix and called it a GTO.

 

I didn't understand the Charger, either. It was a disgrace. I actually like the Challenger, even if it is an aircraft carrier.

[therealmrmustang]

I didn't understand the Charger, either. It was a disgrace. I actually like the Challenger, even if it is an aircraft carrier.

 

So true... I don't think that the Camaro or the Challenger will be around long. They have strayed too far from what a pony car should be.

[94bronco]

 

I know a lot of people are now particulary fond of the Fullsize Bronco's but there are a lot of us that are more fond of the Fullsizer's. It would be the cheapest way of reviving the Bronco name and would be a much better representation of the Bronco name than the "Bronco" concept that they put out a few years ago ( Solid axles, BOF). Also it would be damned near impossible not to make money off it as it would cost Ford practically nothing to build.

[matthewq4b]

Every one seems to forget that there would be more than just the Sales in the U.S.

It is a perfect vehicle for the Russian market Africa South America South East Asia and any third world or emerging market.

 

 

Also like the 70 seiries Landcruiser it could be in production for decades after it has been removed from the NA market. IN fact the 70 Sereis Lancruiser was never even sold in the U.S. Think about how much profit is Toyota turning of each 70 series Landcruiser ? The dam things were designed in the late 70's/early 80's and have not changed much in 25 years. It has also established the Toyota name plate dacades ago in markets that are now starting to be consumers for more than just off road trucks.

 

Ford globally is totally absent in this market segment, they have no offerings in this segment on the planet.

Ford has no entry level vehicles in these markets that are suitable.

 

This is about more than the U.S market yes 60 or 70K sales a year does not seem like much but 2 years of sales at that level in the NA market would pay for the development costs. anouther 5 to 10 K for South America anouther 20 or so for the EU and Russia. maybe 10k or more for Asia 2 or 3 K for Africa and at least that much for Oceanna and You quickly nudge the 100k mark TO be perfectly honest it will have wider appeal globally than the New Taurus will with way less invesment and potentially 3 to 4 times the shelf life.

 

 

A new small Bronco is a no brainer, minimal investmet , with wide market appeal globally.

 

Matthew

[jpvbs]

I'll throw out a couple of random thoughts.

 

One, it has been discussed that the current Expedition will expire in a couple of years, about the same time the next generation F150 arrives. It is thought that since the market for a large BOF suv has shrunken considerably, the Expedition would shift back to being based more directly on the F-series. So it could gain back some of the truckiness it lost. There is some speculation that the next F150 might not be as big as the current one. So that would help in the offroad department as well. Probably not a 2 door, but who knows?

 

Second, this is more "out there." I always liked the rugged looks of the Escape. It looks like it would have decent approach and departure angles and the ground clearance doesn't look bad, at least compared to other CUVs. Would there be a market for an Escape with a 1-2" higher ride height and maybe some 31" tires and skid plates? Can its 4wd be set to lock on to operate as basically a 4hi or does it only engage the rear wheels when it senses slip? It certainly couldn't be called a Bronco and lacking a low range, it would be challenged in some tough crawling situations, but it seems that it would have good ground clearance which gets you a long way off road.

[the_spaniard]

Second, this is more "out there." I always liked the rugged looks of the Escape. It looks like it would have decent approach and departure angles and the ground clearance doesn't look bad, at least compared to other CUVs. Would there be a market for an Escape with a 1-2" higher ride height and maybe some 31" tires and skid plates? Can its 4wd be set to lock on to operate as basically a 4hi or does it only engage the rear wheels when it senses slip? It certainly couldn't be called a Bronco and lacking a low range, it would be challenged in some tough crawling situations, but it seems that it would have good ground clearance which gets you a long way off road.

 

Well, IMO a serious off-road needs to be purpose-built as such. Cosmetic modifications to an Escape wouldn't do it. The Escape doesn't have the reputation, and a re-badge probably wouldn't help.

 

Low-range is an absolute necessity, as is aftermarket support.

[therealmrmustang]

Every one seems to forget that there would be more than just the Sales in the U.S.

It is a perfect vehicle for the Russian market Africa South America South East Asia and any third world or emerging market.

 

 

Also like the 70 seiries Landcruiser it could be in production for decades after it has been removed from the NA market. IN fact the 70 Sereis Lancruiser was never even sold in the U.S. Think about how much profit is Toyota turning of each 70 series Landcruiser ? The dam things were designed in the late 70's/early 80's and have not changed much in 25 years. It has also established the Toyota name plate dacades ago in markets that are now starting to be consumers for more than just off road trucks.

 

Ford globally is totally absent in this market segment, they have no offerings in this segment on the planet.

Ford has no entry level vehicles in these markets that are suitable.

 

This is about more than the U.S market yes 60 or 70K sales a year does not seem like much but 2 years of sales at that level in the NA market would pay for the development costs. anouther 5 to 10 K for South America anouther 20 or so for the EU and Russia. maybe 10k or more for Asia 2 or 3 K for Africa and at least that much for Oceanna and You quickly nudge the 100k mark TO be perfectly honest it will have wider appeal globally than the New Taurus will with way less invesment and potentially 3 to 4 times the shelf life.

 

 

A new small Bronco is a no brainer, minimal investmet , with wide market appeal globally.

 

Matthew

 

Well said... and for some reason I never considered the other markets. This makes a good case as versions of the Wrangler are also marketed globally.

 

Again, excellent point! :reading:

[NickF1011]

Low-range is an absolute necessity, as is aftermarket support.

 

You can't force the aftermarket to support your product.

[matthewq4b]

Well said... and for some reason I never considered the other markets. This makes a good case as versions of the Wrangler are also marketed globally.

 

Again, excellent point! :reading:

 

 

The corker is Ford bought Troller in 2007 a Brazillian out fit that builds a knock off Wrangler. So technically Ford already builds a Wrangler competitior Problem is there is no brand regconition with Troller out side of Brazil. Troller has plants in Brazil and Africa so Ford technically is already positioned to offer a unit into the emerging markets. All Ford needs to do is desgn a Bronco based loosely off the Troller chassis and running gear that will meet NA standards.

 

Ford could utililize the Brazilian Troller plant for production. And the African plant could be used for emerging markets. The Troller uses off the shelf drive line parts from variuos manufactuers that aready have wide after market support. So engineering the driveline cost wise would be minimal, the biggest expence would be chassis and Body work to meet NA crash standards. And the design of the body it's self.

Ford has suitable engines for the NA market that could be dropped in place of the Trollers 3.0L MWM supplied Diesel. The exsisting Troller diesel is perfect for the emerging markets or were Diesel power is preffered.

 

The investment would actaully be quite minimal for Ford, putting a new Bronco in to the segment will cost far less than any other vehicle they have done recently. It would not be too dificult or costly to sit a Bronco concept style body on the basic Troller chassis. You would end up with a vehicle every bit as capable as the Wrangler off road that would appeal to more than just the hard core off road crowd. Plus the manufactring facilities are in place already building a similar vehicle to supply a global market.

 

Troller Web Site

 

 

Matthew

[the_spaniard]

You can't force the aftermarket to support your product.

 

Agreed, but you have to create an attractive enough, capable, and easily modified product to garnish the support for the aftermarket. Build something of quality that is affordable and well-marketed, and the people will come.

Edited August 27, 2009 by the_spaniard

[Reigner92]

It wouldnt surprise me if a new bronco came out. Ford has the know how, materials, and the means, thanks to the Raptor. I would expect it to have an ecoboost engine though and be based on a shortened Raptor.

[F250]

Gotta disagree with you here. I don't believe even in a robust economy it would hit anywhere near 75-90K. The market just isn't there for those numbers, AND have Jeep around eating it's share. A third of Jeeps numbers would probably be more accurate. To the average person that doesn't off-road (in other words, most 4x4 SUV buyers- including Jeepers) , the Jeep is likely to be a much better-known brand.

 

While I agree it would be a shame that it would be a shame to call the weeniemobile the Bronco if it ever saw the light of day, more ridiculous things have happened *cough*GTO*cough*.

 

Well the Original classic Bronco 1966-1977 had it's all time best sales year in 1974 with a whopping 25,874 sold. Only 4 years of it's 12 year run saw more than 20k sold. And this was the legendary first generation Bronco built on a platform that was shared with no other Ford vehicle. The full size F-Series based second generation Bronco outsold the originals by a wide margin and they were very profitable.

 

Oh, and since you point out "most 4x4 SUV buyers don't go off road" Well most Shelby Mustang buyers dont compete on real race tracks so they don't "NEED" 540 HP do they? Just give them stripes and stickers because you dont need that much power to drive on city streets. We could shut down SVT and save that money as well...no, I didn't think so.

Edited September 14, 2009 by F250

[snooter]

same place as the focus RS..in the ether lost

[timmm55]

same place as the focus RS..in the ether lost

 

Huh? It's being sold in Europe....hardly "lost."

[ausrutherford]

same place as the focus RS..in the ether lost

 

Only for a couple years...

[RaZor]

Personally, I hope that Ford can figure out a way to produce small market vehicles . . . at a profit. I know it's difficult for large corps to do so for various reason, but actually if done right, there must be a way to utilize all of the advantages that a large corp has and apply them to smaller market vehicles.

 

In that light, what I would like to see is modern reincarnation of the original Bronco - but this time with a small diesel (yeah, I know the 4.4L isn't ready yet . . . but I am not talking right now anyway . . . maybe after a a couple years of producing them for LR) but with the same methodology and execution of the Raptor.

 

Yeah, I know the big Bronco sold lots more than the original, but that was then and I don't think we'll ever go back to those days.

 

I'd write a check out for one the day they hit the dealer.

 

Sorta along this line would do

Or like this (with modern - yet functional styling). . .

[Deanh]

Personally, I hope that Ford can figure out a way to produce small market vehicles . . . at a profit. I know it's difficult for large corps to do so for various reason, but actually if done right, there must be a way to utilize all of the advantages that a large corp has and apply them to smaller market vehicles.

 

In that light, what I would like to see is modern reincarnation of the original Bronco - but this time with a small diesel (yeah, I know the 4.4L isn't ready yet . . . but I am not talking right now anyway . . . maybe after a a couple years of producing them for LR) but with the same methodology and execution of the Raptor.

 

Yeah, I know the big Bronco sold lots more than the original, but that was then and I don't think we'll ever go back to those days.

 

I'd write a check out for one the day they hit the dealer.

 

Sorta along this line would do

Or like this (with modern - yet functional styling). . .

they have the Chassis....wonder how hard it would be to "Bronco-ize" the Raptor.........

[matthewq4b]

they have the Chassis....wonder how hard it would be to "Bronco-ize" the Raptor.........

 

 

Ford always had the Chassis Remember the Raptor chassis IS an F150 chassis with some after market bits.

 

Nothing more than what has aldeady been done too tens if not hundreds of thousands F150's by their owners with after market bits.

 

Basically the Raptor chassis is how all F150 4x4's from the factory should be equipped all Ford did was fix the short commings in the stock 4x4 chassis.

 

 

 

 

Matthew

[syrtran]

they have the Chassis....wonder how hard it would be to "Bronco-ize" the Raptor.........

That Bronco is the size of the Escape, not the Expedition. The Ranger chassis is the one that's about the proper size, and it doesn't have a Raptor (SVT) version.

 

This thread is going around in circles. It's been pointed out many times that there's just no business case for Ford - or anyone else - for a 2-door off-road SUV. All the ones that were around just 10 years ago are gone except the Wrangler, and even that now has a 4-door due to falling sales.

[snooter]

Ford always had the Chassis Remember the Raptor chassis IS an F150 chassis with some after market bits.

 

Nothing more than what has aldeady been done too tens if not hundreds of thousands F150's by their owners with after market bits.

 

Basically the Raptor chassis is how all F150 4x4's from the factory should be equipped all Ford did was fix the short commings in the stock 4x4 chassis.

 

 

 

 

Matthew

 

ford is addressing it..they finally conceeded inadequate rotor diameter (new ones bigger..FINALLY!) on the 2010 or 2011 model..whatever is coming out this fall...i suspect many raptor parts will find there way down to the grocery getter f150's

[RaZor]

This thread is going around in circles. It's been pointed out many times that there's just no business case for Ford - or anyone else - for a 2-door off-road SUV. All the ones that were around just 10 years ago are gone except the Wrangler, and even that now has a 4-door due to falling sales.

While I think that it is just wonderful that you have your fingers on the pulse of what the market wants and will buy, which after all determines whether there is a business case for a particular line, or individual vehicle, there really are a couple other factors involved here.

 

The real determination whether a limited production vehicle should be made is, and should always be, whether it can be done profitably. That is why I stated that it will take some ingenuity within a (large) corporate structure to come up with a method to have limited production vehicles . . . and still make money on them. Of course, the product needs to be above-all-the-rest and class leading and meet the needs of those that desire this type of vehicle.

 

While you are correct that 2-dr OR capable SUV's sales have certainly declined in recent years . . . but is that due to the execution of the vehicles available . . . or . . . just a complete collapse of desire for that type of vehicle by the masses?

 

A few years back Yota came out with one that, at first, attracted a sizable number of customers and I started seeing them almost as soon as they hit the dealers. I disliked it from the get-go and would never even consider it (if someone gave me (a new) one - I would sell it before I would drive it). And yet, last I heard, even though sales have declined, Yota has no plans to discontinue it and instead, make some upgrades (or something - I really don't care) -- but it shows that they think that there still exists a market for this type of vehicle. Must be they have different information than you, eh?

 

While I agree that revitalization of any Bronco would not be advisable at this time, and I am totally against Ford just throwing something together for a 'me-too' product - - somewhere down the line, I personally would like to see one done - if in the spirit of the original (even if they incorporated the styling cues of the concept), done in a class leading manner (which is why I suggested a small diesel - for efficiency and low end grunt, etc) leaving all others in the wake, and still be fairly affordable(the spirit of the original) and profitably (for Ford).

 

Jeeps really never have been efficient (or at least for a long time). I have a neighbor that has one of the new 4dr Wranglers and I get about the same mileage (mpg) as he does -- in my extended cab, long bed F-150. That is what I am referring to in terms of execution. To use a poorly executed vehicle as the basis of whether or not its class is viable, may lead to inaccurate assumptions. Park my F150 next to his Wrangler - and realize the both get about the same mileage - is rather disturbing.

 

It is interesting how many times I have read posts here that emphatically state that there is no market for 2 door coupes, roadsters, and all sorts of vehicles and yet other manuf's make them and sell them - I see them on the streets everyday - essentially can't go two miles on any main thoroughfare around here, without seeing several examples of those vehicles - and yet, according to most here BON, there isn't any market for them.

 

Note: Affordability? I like Ford's idea with the Fiesta - make a small car, but slightly upscale so that it is profitable - instead of trying to make a 'me-too' small car, trying to sell it on price.

 

IIRC the average price of new car in the US is somewhere around $25k. Anyone that cannot afford to buy a new car with terms not greater than 36 months (pay-off) -- should NOT be buying a new car IMO - they should be buying a used car until such time that they can afford a new one.

 

New cars are not investments, they are expenses and people need to wise up to the fact that they need to reset their priorities if they are ever going to get to the place that they can afford large expenses (like new cars). . . no matter whether they emotionally 'want/need' a specific vehicle.

 

But I repeat- if Ford had a Bronco (as I have described above -in the spirit and execution of the orig) available today, next year, or three years down the road . . . I'd write out a check for one. But there isn't any other vehicle in that class that I would consider buying - no matter what the price. (Oh, and that would include if Ford chose to make it like the big Broncos of the eighties and nineties - no cigar)

[blksn8k2]

Just to elaborate a little on what RaZor said, in reference to the Toyota SUV that I can't even remember the name of because I couldn't care less, think about when they came out with that model or even the little Scion boxy thing. It was not long after Ford showed similar vehicles in concept form. Everyone remembers the Bronco concept and wishes they could forget those horrible little box concepts. But Toyota apparently was paying attention to the amount of buzz they created. Ford does have better ideas. Sometimes it just takes Toyota to execute them. Its probably a good thing that Ford cut back on the number of concepts. They are not giving Toyota much of anything new to beat them to market with.

[94bronco]

 

I know a lot of people are now particulary fond of the Fullsize Bronco's but there are a lot of us that are more fond of the Fullsizer's. It would be the cheapest way of reviving the Bronco name and would be a much better representation of the Bronco name than the "Bronco" concept that they put out a few years ago ( Solid axles, BOF). Also it would be damned near impossible not to make money off it as it would cost Ford practically nothing to build.

So no one likes my idea lol?

[ausrutherford]

So no one likes my idea lol?

 

Cafe... :reading: